Problems smoking fish!

[deefly]

Well, I finally got a Little Chief Smoker and read over the instructions for smoking "Yum-Yum fish!"
After 11 hours, the steelhead (4 pieces!) came out too salty and underdone. I was disappointed
so I read over the threads here at Ifish and have seen that in these frigid temps, you have to use an insulator of some sort. Some have even suggested finishing off in the oven! (my thought is: well, then, whats the point?!)
I am wondering if anyone can confirm my guesses on what went wrong:
1. I used frozen fish (2 mos old-double wrapped in plastic)
2. I glazed for only 15 minutes
3. I smoked in cold weather w/o insulation on the smoker.

Am I right in assuming that these items contributed to my messed up fish?
Any suggestions?
Im beginning to believe this stuff takes practice and following the basics! No shortcuts!

[RogueFishr]

in cold weather you need to insulate the smoker with something. I always use the box it came in, turned upside down. I smoke previously frozen fish all the time. If your cure/brine turned out too salty, try cutting the salt back. It is very easy to get fish too salty, IMO There is a lot of good recipes here to follow. Pick one and follow it. And definitely insulate the box in this cold weather.

RF

[apparentgenius]

I use a dry brine to extract as much water as possible before smoking. I just coat the fillets with salt and spread a couple of hanfulls of brown sugar and let sit overnight. It pulls out a lot of the moisture. Be sure to rinse the fillets to get rid of the surface salt, then pat dry. On cold days, keep your smoker in the box that it came with. You'll have to cut a flap for chip access. Also sometimes I leave it in for up to 18-20 hours. Hope this helps.

glen

[FishingNewbie]

you have to be careful with steelhead. we just get the packaged brines from g.i.joes, and one turns out way too garlicy on steelhead. had to throw the whole thing out. steelhead seem to absorbe flavor more than salmon. we use previously frozen fish too. try wrapping them in waxed paper rather than plastic wrap. also, we have "finished" them in the oven, and they turned out tough and rubbery. we have the same smoker and don't insulate the thing. it does take longer in the cold weather, we do it in the garage with the door cracked open (the neighbors have watering mouths).

[Woody]

I use a dry brine--- 1 cup kosher salt, 2 cups brown sugar, 1 tsp garlic powder, 1 tsp onion powder, 1 tsp pepper. Pack fillets with dry mixture in a large plastic container with a lid. Refrigerate overnight. Next day, rinse well and set on smoker racks to dry (very important) use a fan to speed up the process. Smoke with 2 pans alder/apple. Cook in the smoker until the fish reaches an internal temp of 130-140. If it doesn't get there in 8 or 10 hours, it never will. The outside will just dry out and the inside will stay undercooked. Just finish it in the oven, as low as it will go (mine's about 200) with the door cracked open. An hour or two will usally do it.

[kodiakfisher]

The key with the smoker is the temperature. I have a big chief and to make sure I smoke the fish at around 160 deg I drilled a small hole in the top and put an oven meat thermometer in the hole. This way I know exactly what the temp is in the smoker. I have never had to insulate my smoker most of the time I have to off set the lid to cool it down. The thicker the fish the longer you will probably have to smoke it. I try and keep my pieces no more than an inch and can complete the smoking in about 7-8 hours.

If you use salt in your brine make sure you rinse the fish. I never use salt but soy instead. This may help.

[ampersat]

1. When you freeze fish, it'll squeeze some of the moisture out of it. This will cause it to drawn in more of the brine and tends to make it too salty. I will cut back on the salt if I'm going to be smoking fish that was previously frozen. There's nothing wrong with smoking previously frozen fish, you just have to make an adjustment to the brine.
2. After you take it out of the brine, rinse it, pat it dry with paper towels, and rack it. Standing time prior to smoking can't be too long (within reason) but can easily be too short. Last time, I put a fan on it once it was racked and got a good pellicle in about an hour. Because of our humid winter environment, the fan really helps. The pellicle serves several functions: it provides an ideal surface for the smoke flavor to adhere, it helps seal in the remaining moisture through the smoking process, and it prevents the fats in the fish from rising to the surface and spoiling. Skip the pellicle step and you'll be making salmon jerky instead of smoked salmon.
3. A smoker is for smoking food. It's primary job is to apply the smoke. If conditions outside aren't ideal, I'll move it to the oven to finish it off. The last batch I did, I used the box over the top of the smoker and barely even got up to 140 degrees, the minimum for making smoked fish safe to eat. It took me a while of adjusting the oven in the 'warm' range to get it right around 165, which is a temp I feel safe for getting the fish done right but not baking it. I'd hate to go around giving away smoked salmon only to have people getting ill from eating it.

Don't knock yourself too much over this. Smoking is a process that you need a little experience with to get it the way you like it. There are some basic principles that you need to follow to ensure a good product but outside of that, it's up to you. Some folks like it moister, some drier, some saltier, some sweeter. No two batches ever turn out exactly the same. If you're just trying to get the hang of working with your smoker, do just a few pieces at a time. You'll only be out a few pans of chips and you won't risk making a lot of something you're not happy with.

[Hell-B]

Good responses on brine and drying. I have one added suggestion. You'll find that a little chief will fit perfectly in your fireplace if you have one. Smoke will all go up flue. Used to do that all the time in winter. :smile:

[deefly]

Boy, oh Boy! this board is a wonder! I appreciate all the help! I want my stuff to turn out like Karlas Krabs' Tuna,etc! Im a long way from there! but earlier comments and your helpful replies have given me hope! Those people (IMHO) need to rewrite that book! BTW, I also used iodized salt!
Does this make a difference?
Again, my hats off to one and all! Someday.......
I suppose I could have just chucked the fish into the oven.............. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

[Silver Hilton]

If I'm smoking in cold weather, I put 2 or 3 charcoal briquets in the chip pan. This gets the temperature up where it should be.

[Birdnest]

If I'm smoking in cold weather, I put 2 or 3 charcoal briquets in the chip pan. This gets the temperature up where it should be.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">[img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] Sounds like a great idea. Do you think this could have much effect on the taste? I use the chips that are more like shavings and sawdust. What about a couple of larger chunks (golfball sized) of the wood you are smoking with, would this raise the temp much?

Thanks for some great info above. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Joe

[Huntar]

Silver Hilton is right, the chacoal briquets work great. I've done it several times and now will always use this method in cool weather, or if I'm too impatient to spend all day smoking fish when the weather is nice.

[SteelieSteve]

Use the smoker in the box. If it is below fifty degrees you may need to add more insulation. I use additional cardboard around the smoker to keep the heat in. The briquet idea is a good one that I will try in the future. I use a wet brine; 1 cup soy sauce, many cups brown sugar and whatever spices you like, brine the fish overnight then glaze the fish after rinsing and papertowel drying for an hour. Smoke until done which has taken 10 hours on cold days(even last years 40# was done in less than 10 hours). It takes trial and error to perfect your technique.

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

I just smoked a batch yesterday when it was 38 out. Used the box turned upside down over the Lil Chief with the flaps loose. Took 11 hours. I monitor the temp inside the smoker with a meat thermometer. I aim for 150. With the box on, sheltered from the wind and all flaps closed it went up to 170. Too hot. By opening a flap or two to allow built up heat to escape out the top of the box you can regulate the temp pretty good.

My first attempt at smoking vension jerky came out like charcoal. Took a few tries to get the hang of it.

Dale

[jokester]

deefly,

I've always heard to use NON-IODIZED salt. Something to the degree about a "twang" in the way the fish tastes after smoking it if you use iodized salt. Don't know if this made a difference or not, but i've never heard of anyone using iodized. Maybe someone can elaborate on that for us....

-jokester

[ampersat]

Why yes, I can elaborate on using iodized salt for your brine. DON'T EVER DO IT!!!!!

I made my one and only batch of jerky (so far) using iodized salt. Twang? Yeah, kind of like a metallic taste that you can't stand to have in your mouth. I ended up feeding it all to my dogs, when they would eat it, that is.

Your salt choices are non-iodized salt, kosher salt, sea salt or maybe rock salt. Rock salt is risky because it's mined directly from deposits and there's no telling what is deposited among the salt. Sea salt would probably be the best but it tends to be spendy. I just use Morton's non-iodized salt myself. Cheap and easily available. I can adjust the flavors myself in the brine more directly.

Feel free to experiment with your brine. My brine usually starts with a quart of water, a whole onion chopped coarse and some crushed garlic. I'm not above throwing in some complementary herbs into the mix too. I'll simmer it a while, then strain out the chunks. Then I'll add a beer or a cup of red wine, some teriyaki sauce, more water and the sugar and salt.

At the end of the day, you're really just cooking fish. Remember that the smoke will give the fish a "darker" flavor and adjust your inputs accordingly (e.g., dill is too light and delicate a flavor and would disappear among all the other flavors in finished smoked salmon). This is why I use red wine instead of white in the brine.

[Silver Hilton]

I want to add a couple of things on the charcoal. First, it will light from the heat of the pan. You don't need to start it first. Just put the briquets in the pan, and then pour some chips over it. Second, use the stuff that does NOT contain the lighter fluid.

On the taste, you will not notice any difference, as long as you use straight normal charcoal. I use Kingsford. A friend of mine uses some gucci mesquite stuff. It doesn't seem to make a difference.

[fortywinks]

A lot of good comments and ideas. I guess like a lot of other things, whatever works for You. A certain amount of trial & error, and experimentation and soon you will have a good handle on it.

I use the thermometer thru the lid, thus eliminating wondering about temperature. Never have problems maintaining around 160 degrees, & I don't use charcoal, just a few pans of wood chips during the first 2-3 hours.

We don't like a real salty taste, so we cut most receipes we tried, way back on salt, and then when using Soy, cut it back even more. We use non-iodized salt, but sometimes will mix with some iodized salt, because that will give Salmon a redder coloring in the process, and give it a look some people prefer. Have not noticed any difference in taste.

Oh, and don't ever brine it using a metal or aluminum container--yuk! Don't ask me how I know this. :blush:

[glassblower]

I seen where you had asked about the type of salt, my father and I have smoked loads of Salmon and Steelhead, and he allway said NEVER to use iodized salt. I do not know why but he would never use it and he made the best smoked fish I ever ate. He smoked all the locals fish for them and they would not settle for anyone elses fish. e-mail me and I send you a great recipe. bubbler@cablerocket.com

[Woody]

One more tip: To make sure you have the right concentration of salt and sugar in your wet brine, add a raw egg in the shell to the brine. When the egg floats, the concentration (specific gravity) is just right.

[Rakkasan]

Brinkman Smoker...You will never have to worry about all the ouside temp issues. I do 15-20 pounds at a time no problem.

Leech your fish in 1 cup per gallon of water for two hours. Rotate fish once in a while. This gets the salt into the fish and leeches the blood and oil out. Pull the fish out and rins it off in cold water intil you cannot feel any slime. After this brine it in whatever using minimal salt or to taste.

I use Teryaki, brown sugar, garlic salt, pepper, a little bit of salt and soak it for 12-24 hours. Turns out great every time.

[corkyking]

I put together a search a few days ago for info on smoking salmon (and a few other things).

It's 16 pgs. long so if you email me I'd be happy to attach it and send it back.

[greenbuttskunk]

deefly,
check the post last week about recipes. I have the big chief but still use my oven to finish the smoked fish off, left my favorite recipe in the thread, but there are many good ones there too.
sorry the fish was a bust. We've all had batches that did not come out well at first. It's like anything else, it takes a little practice but once you master it,
it comes out fantastic every time.
better luck next time, and enjoy!
GBS

[Radke]

This really is a great board!!

I think I can do a pretty fair job of smoking fish, but have never heard of adding charcoal to increase the heat factor.

Thanks guys, I'll be smoking a bunch of fish this coming weekend and will give this a try.

[ko]

Iodized salt has only one use..... killing slugs.

I use kosher or sea salt depnding on the flavor I want.

[lost_sailor]

I am still using the original box for insulation. It smells really good! :grin:
Nothing wrong with a little "finishing" in a low-temp oven if it turns out underdone. All the flavor is there, it just needs a little more cookin'. Be careful, it's very easy to over-"finish" it. :depressed: Then you have to eat it all instead of giving it away.

I rinse off the brine, but not too much, just the right amount ... in other words, practice, practice, practice. Also a hoppy pale ale is helpful

[BottomFeeder]

Deefly,


I did nearly the identical thing when I got my first little chief. To correct the problem, I did just what is being suggested here, experiment.
I now use a brine that delivers enough salt impact for my taste buds in a 4 hour curing time. Fillet thickness is a big deal too for salt penetration!! If it's cold, I use an old coat to go around it but drop the curing time to about 12 hours, if it's warm, no coat but extend the curing time. Hopefully you catch enough fish to experiment with! Find a couple of recipes here on the net and then play around with the ratios of salt, sugar, spices, etc. to get it to how you like it.


-Bottomfeeder

[5-Cents]

Hey Hilton that charcoal idea is a good one! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Thanks

deefly,

Dont get discouraged, try try again, it will take a few times to get it perfected. Here is a great base to make your smoked fish from, you can add spices to taste like garlic powder, crushed red pepper, honey or maple glazes and so on....

This is a dry brine, no water dont rinse the fish before smoking, let stand at room temp out of the brine for an hour before you put it in the smoker.

1 package of dark brown sugar
1 cup of pickling salt

Brine fish for 2 days in the fridge, make sure to rotate the fish in the brine.

Remember to experiment with additional spices! If you want my exact mix do an Ifish search...

I did about 400lbs or so of fish this year and it turned out great! Gave almost all of it away for X-Mas to great reviews. Now I got room for all those springers!

[BaitStop]

I use an albacore dry brine recipe I picked up many years ago. It's a little involved but if you want give it a try:1 cup rock salt, 1 cup packed brown sgr, 1/2 tsp allspice, 1/2 tsp grnd ginger, 3/4 tsp grnd white pepper, 1 clove crushed garlic, 1 tsp crkd Bay leaf. Mix all ingrdnts in large glass or plastic bowl. Using a plastic/glass tray cover the btm with the mixture & place filets skin side down, cover w/mixture & continue to layer until you fill the tray. Let the fish cure for 6 hrs. in refer. or 2-3 hrs. @room temp. Watch for the fish to stiffen & tray to fill w/liquid. The cured filets should be washed under running cold water to release as much salt as desired. Then air dry on waxed paper till flesh feels tacky. Oil skin sides & smoke. Baste with? I use 2/3 cp maple syrup, 1/4 tsp grnd ginger & 2 tbsp soy mixed & brushed on every 30 mins. till done 2-3 hrs. Note: The wife & I like tuna, tuna bellies, salmon & steelhead this way but my father-in-law says it's too sweet so play with it. Yoshidas is OK too.