7mm mauser reloading ? - www.ifish.net

Go Back   www.ifish.net > Ifish Fishing and Hunting > Ifish Hunting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2013, 11:55 AM   #1
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default 7mm mauser reloading ?

Im going to a friends house to load up some bullets tonight and we dont have the right book. I am in need of some numbers. Im reloading a 7mm mauser with IMR 4064 and 175 gr round nose hornady interlock bullets. Can someone tell me the high and low amount of powder i need. I will be loading up 3-5 bullet in 1gr groups for 5 groups. Thanks Blake

hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #2
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Lyman #49 lists WLR primer, winchester brass, 175gr speer grand slam, IMR4064, start 35gr 2178fps-max 39gr 2439. No pressure listed
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:09 PM   #3
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Nosler list the same min-max for the 175gr partition, same velocity
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:09 PM   #4
James in Idaho
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 3,273
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

http://www.imrpowder.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

That should help. Curious, why 175's? What rifle are you using? I'm sure you know to watch max loads very closely if your shooting a pre '98 Mauser. Mine is built on a '93 action (with a Ruger take off barrel), it really likes the 140 grain bullets.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!

Last edited by James in Idaho; 02-01-2013 at 12:11 PM.
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #5
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,125
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

That powder is completely unsuitable for that bullet weight. My book shows the heaviest bullet weight for that powder is 168 gr. IMR-4064 doesn't perform as well as other powders with bullet weights over 120 gr.

If you do insist on using that powder, don't use more than 35 grains. Your muzzle velocity would be in the neighborhood of 2100 fps. maybe less. This is not a hunting load, plinking only. In fact, I would't ever consider loading this combination.

The absolute heaviest bullet I would consider for this cartridge is the 150 gr. 46 gr. of IMR 4064 combined with a 24 inch barrel, would yield somewhere just under 2700 fps. 51 Gr. of H4350 will produce just under 2750 fps with a 150 gr. bullet.
DogZilla15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #6
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Thank guys I little history with the gun. When i bought it it came with 175 grain super x. shot grate never remember putting a group on paper but but a single here and there. The single was always withen the 1.5 in i want. Not having many of these bullets, I went and bought some factory i believe 130 corelocks scattered them two here two there probably 14' gruop tried the federal same thing. After talking to people i found out the gun likes a heavy slow bullet, makes sense as to what a saw with the heavy bullets, even tried loading up some bullets in the 130 range same thing scatter. The barrel is not in the best shape since the gun has been sportirized, i would like to find a bullet that shoots ok out to a hundred yards.

Dogzilla the powder is something i have. What would you recommend if i can find it.
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #7
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

The rifle, If it is the one I know. Only likes 175gr round nose bullets. Shoots anything lighter like a shotgun. I'll guess he is trying to match the old load data. Nosler and lyman both list the same load with IMR4064 So it is a common pick for the 7mm mauser.
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #8
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baltz526 View Post
The rifle, If it is the one I know. Only likes 175gr round nose bullets. Shoots anything lighter like a shotgun. I'll guess he is trying to match the old load data. Nosler and lyman both list the same load with IMR4064 So it is a common pick for the 7mm mauser.
Richard it is the one i brought to couger camp years ago.And yes im trying to match what shot ok threw it. Blake
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:08 PM   #9
James in Idaho
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 3,273
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunteraholic View Post
Richard it is the one i brought to couger camp years ago.And yes im trying to match what shot ok threw it. Blake
Sounds like a sportized early Mauser, and yes they were designed around the 175 grain bullets. If it has a stepped barrel then stick with the heavy slugs. I haven't loaded anything that heavy in mine, but again I have a modern Ruger barrel on a 93 action. I think I use 4320 or 4350, but I have some 4895 on the bench that I know I haven't used in my .270 in years, so I must have tried it in the 7x57. I bet you find the best accuracy on the lower end of whatever powder you use. Due to the perceived "weakness" of the pre 98 actions those factory loads that you had were on the mild side, all factory 7x57 is loaded mild.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!

Last edited by James in Idaho; 02-01-2013 at 01:09 PM.
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:28 PM   #10
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Thanks james here a couple pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7mm.JPG (36.2 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg 7mm 2.JPG (38.3 KB, 47 views)
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #11
James in Idaho
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 3,273
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunteraholic View Post
Thanks james here a couple pictures.
That's a nicely sporterized rifle. It's a 93 or 94 Mauser, and it looks like they turned the steps off the barrel. That real fat section over the chamber makes me think it is a military barrel. What does it say on the left side of the action in front of the stripperclip cut out?
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 01:59 PM   #12
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James in Idaho View Post
That's a nicely sporterized rifle. It's a 93 or 94 Mauser, and it looks like they turned the steps off the barrel. That real fat section over the chamber makes me think it is a military barrel. What does it say on the left side of the action in front of the stripperclip cut out?

F (then a little f in a circle) 6484 . Its also got another step down just over halfway down the barrel

Last edited by hunteraholic; 02-01-2013 at 02:02 PM.
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:25 PM   #13
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,125
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

What Baltz said, old military, probably won't shoot light bullets. Looks like who ever did the work, did a nice job.

I think you're on the right track with the heavy bullets. If it won't shoot those, it won't shoot anything.

I'd take the time to do a thorough cleaning of the barrel, lots of time with a bronze brush and a good powder solvent. Then switch to a copper remover and nylon brush, follow the instructions. Continue with the copper cleaning till it's gone then reapply the powder solvent. There may be powder fouling under the copper that the copper cleaner won't remove.

Inspect the muzzle end of the barrel with a bright light and magnifying glass. If the rifling isn't sharp to the end of the barrel, simply recrowning might get it to shoot better.

The rifle is not a 98 so how much pressure the action can take is up for speculation. That means only low pressure loads should be used which means it will never be a top hunting rifle.

The loads I would try are 45 gr. of H4831 or 46 gr of H4350. The rifle should handle these safely.
DogZilla15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:48 PM   #14
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Sierra list 170gr RN bullet IMR4064 min 35.3 max 39.9 OLD hornady book lists 175gr RN 4064 min 36.4 max 40.9 The velocity range is in the 2150-2500fps area. If I was loading for it, I would try for accuracy around 2400fps and call it good.
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #15
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
What Baltz said, old military, probably won't shoot light bullets. Looks like who ever did the work, did a nice job.

I think you're on the right track with the heavy bullets. If it won't shoot those, it won't shoot anything.

I'd take the time to do a thorough cleaning of the barrel, lots of time with a bronze brush and a good powder solvent. Then switch to a copper remover and nylon brush, follow the instructions. Continue with the copper cleaning till it's gone then reapply the powder solvent. There may be powder fouling under the copper that the copper cleaner won't remove.

Inspect the muzzle end of the barrel with a bright light and magnifying glass. If the rifling isn't sharp to the end of the barrel, simply recrowning might get it to shoot better.

The rifle is not a 98 so how much pressure the action can take is up for speculation. That means only low pressure loads should be used which means it will never be a top hunting rifle.

The loads I would try are 45 gr. of H4831 or 46 gr of H4350. The rifle should handle these safely.
Thanks Harvey THE cleaning was much needed Richard was very polite about it. Ive had the crowning looked at and they thought it was ok the barrel was a little pitted and they suggested replacing it. We looked at the cost and reward and it didnt make sense. So if i can load a bullet for a ok group im ok with that. Once i make a load and chonograph it we will see. I paid $150 for the gun with a few boxes of shell, brass and dies Thanks for the help Blake
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 02:58 PM   #16
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,125
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Pitted barrels can still shoot okay. When the pitting is in the last couple of inches, don't expect a whole lot.

With the loads I mentioned, I was trying to keep pressure below 40,000 PSI. Baltz know more about what this rifle can handle than I do so if he says it'll handle the 4064, I'd trust that. The loads will be more consistent with the 4064. A couple more powders worth considering are H4320 or H4895. The slow, low pressure powders I mentioned, won't give the best accuracy unless loaded at the top.
DogZilla15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:01 PM   #17
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

It would be interesting to measure the bore on this rifle. It would not suprise me to see .288-.292" I have measured 7mm bullets they can run .281-.284. So a long soft jacketed bullet of .284" may be what it takes on some of these old military guns
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:18 PM   #18
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

The bullets are measuuring 0.284 amd the barrel 0.285-0.275
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #19
walkwalk
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Prineville OR
Posts: 326
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Hornady 5th edition

Bullet # 2855 RN 175 Grain

Barrel 22" 1 in 10 twist

Your powder is not listed they use imr 4831 along with 7 other powders
There is a reason for not giving you the data

NOTE: quote

WE DEVELPOPED DATA IN THE STRONG ,MODERN WINCHESTER MODEL 70
THIS DATA SHOULD NOT BE USED IN OLDER MAUSER 93 OR 95 AND SHOULD BE APPROACHED CAUTIOUSLY IN MODEL 98 MAUSERS

I think you should probably use a chrono especially with that powder
you now 4064 have to watch for potential pressure signs
__________________
There is no such thing as fact only the
evidence we have now indicates
walkwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,125
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Walkwalk:

How do weak actions show signs they aren't handling the pressure? All I'm aware of are the pressure signs that show up in modern strong actions, haven't a clue about how it applies in this case. I would think things like excessive case stretching or swelling might be a couple?
DogZilla15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:23 PM   #21
walkwalk
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Prineville OR
Posts: 326
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
Walkwalk:

How do weak actions show signs they aren't handling the pressure? All I'm aware of are the pressure signs that show up in modern strong actions, haven't a clue about how it applies in this case. I would think things like excessive case stretching or swelling might be a couple?
As You know I am new to reloading but like to study it.

I cannot answer your question which signs of pressure would show up
in an earlier ,older non modern action vs a modern firearm action as my list of reasons of signs of pressure are 33 going on maybe 34

Back to the original post if the Op has to go back to older manuals
that list CUP be very careful . If the op or anybody needs a reason for that statement I will give them my findings per PM
__________________
There is no such thing as fact only the
evidence we have now indicates
walkwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:35 PM   #22
Don Fischer
Sturgeon
 
Don Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Antelope, Ore
Posts: 4,779
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

4th edition Hornady used a Ruger mod 77 to work up data. They have for 4064, start 37.9 grs max 42.4 grs. max velocity of 2500fps.
__________________
I feel sorry for the guy that has never been loved by a dog!

There's a reason I like dogs better than people!
Don Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:44 PM   #23
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Lyman used a 7mm mauser model 95. And it looks like they used it for IMR4064, H380 and IMR4350 in 175gr
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #24
DirectDrive
Sturgeon
 
DirectDrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 3,574
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Here's a snip from the Hodgdon online manual for 7x57 Mauser....


By all means search up that manual and verify for yourself before using the data as I couldn't grab the header in the sreenshot snippet of the 175 gr. loads.
DirectDrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #25
waterbobber
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yakima area
Posts: 3,004
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

The Hornady No. 4 Manual lists 2500ps with the 175 Hornady bullets using 42.4grains of IMR-4064 with Win. cases and Federal 210 primers, C.O.L. of 3.015". Reduce by 10-15% if using a model 92 or 95 Mauser, or Remington rolling block.
waterbobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 07:34 AM   #26
Hunt'nFish
King Salmon
 
Hunt'nFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beaverton,OR
Posts: 12,932
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Good luck Blake, hope your successful in duplicating those old loads.
Personally, looking at the Hodgdon Data posted, 4064 would've been my last choice in powder.
I think I'd have looked to a slower burning powder w/ a higher load density.
Particularly when I mention Recoil & your boy in the same sentence.
But I understand your just trying to duplicate a known good shooting load.

All the mention of pitting makes me wonder what would happen if we fire-lapped it.
Many times a barrel that has issues, will shoot bullets w/ long bearing surfaces well and shorter bullets poor. This is a dimensional bore issue that can many times be improved w/ a little lapping. Sure would be nice to get it to shoot 130's for your Boy's first mentor rifle.
I think I have a 7mm 175 mold..........
Hunt'nFish
Hunt'nFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 08:04 AM   #27
waterbobber
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yakima area
Posts: 3,004
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

If the bore is truly oversized then you might try a Nosler Partition .284 bullet as they can sometimes do wonders. The exposed lead base on the Partition helps it "slug up" to fill the bore upon firing. Some have reported good results shooting .308 diameter partitions in the .303 British. with a bore 4-6 thousands larger.

By the way, the Shooters Pro Shop has 150 & 160 .284 Partitions on sale at better than 1/2 price right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baltz526 View Post
It would be interesting to measure the bore on this rifle. It would not suprise me to see .288-.292" I have measured 7mm bullets they can run .281-.284. So a long soft jacketed bullet of .284" may be what it takes on some of these old military guns

Last edited by waterbobber; 02-02-2013 at 08:06 AM.
waterbobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 08:11 AM   #28
Hunt'nFish
King Salmon
 
Hunt'nFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beaverton,OR
Posts: 12,932
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Huh, interesting Waterbobber. Early Mini-30's had the same bore issue.
Hunt'nFish
__________________
Hunt'nFish Trophy Pics
Hunt'nFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 09:37 AM   #29
baltz526
King Salmon
 
baltz526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 18,239
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Looking at some Hodgdon 7mm mauser data, The best powder choice for the 175gr may be H1000. Lowest pressure at highest velocity with a full case. But sometimes fast powder with 80% case filling, like IMR4064 just works better.
__________________
OHA LIFE MEMBER, LAPINE OREGON. the hunt begins. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ To join the most effective hunting rights & habitat group in Oregon, Click on the OHA link.
baltz526 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 09:21 AM   #30
hunteraholic
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brownsville Or
Posts: 235
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

IM going to see if i can find out exactly what gun i have. IM going to wait till couger camp to shoot the loads we made up. There will be a few expert there . HA
hunteraholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:01 PM   #31
Wreckless
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hillsboro OR
Posts: 7,768
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

You guys just reminded me. I have a box of 7mm Mauser that I'd sell for a fair price. I'm guessing they are hand loads. The box they are in says Winchester 175 gr. soft point. They are longer bullets, but I really don't know what they are. Basically they are good brass.
I have NO idea what they are worth but I'm NOT trying to gouge.

Just a thought. I'm sitting here watching the super bowl, playing on ifish
__________________
Owner/Operator: "I Can't Believe It's A Guide Service".

"Today's the day"......Mel Fisher
Wreckless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 09:23 PM   #32
Merganser99
Chromer
 
Merganser99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 701
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

I haven't loaded 175 grainers in my 7X57 Remington Mountain rifle. I have shot a couple boxes and they gave OK accuracy. Mine really liked the 160 grain Speer. You might give them a try if you don't get the accuracy you are looking for otherwise. I tried a number of different powders, but decided that for everything from the 110 grain Speer TNT to 160 grain, and everything in between, nothing beat 4350. I have used IMR, Scot, and Hodgdon. They all worked fine.
__________________
The right place at the right time is here and now.
Merganser99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 06:05 AM   #33
James in Idaho
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 3,273
Default Re: 7mm mauser reloading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunteraholic View Post
IM going to see if i can find out exactly what gun i have. IM going to wait till couger camp to shoot the loads we made up. There will be a few expert there . HA
A close up picture of the left side of the receiver, highlight any writing with some chalk, and a picture of the bolt removed from the rifle would help. There is a possibility that the identifying marks were polished off, not uncommon in some military conversions.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Cast to



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:07 AM.

Terms of Service
Page generated in 0.48218 seconds with 54 queries