Huge Fish Farms Planned

[Dave Vedder]

Bush Administration Begins Planning for Massive new Fish Farms
Bush Administration bureaucrats have begun planning for huge ocean based fish farming operations. Legislation currently under development would let fish farmers claim huge tracts of open ocean for farming operations. The legislation would apply to waters from 3 to 3200 miles offshore, an area larger than the entire land base of the U.S.
The Bush Administration wants to expand fish farming by a factor of five times in the next 20 years. If the plan succeeds farmed fish would soon generate more income than all wild fish harvest combined.
The ocean has traditionally been treated as common property of all citizens, but the proposed legislation would give businesses exclusive leases of portions of the ocean for as long as 20 years.
In addition to salmon halibut, black cod, cod, and shellfish could be farmed. Richard Hildreth, Director of the oceans and Coastal law Center at the University of Oregon says, "It would be sort of industrializing the oceans to produce things, and that's a brand-new idea for people,"
It seems the administration is fully supportive of the concept. "It's a food security issue," says Conrad Mahnken of the NOAA-Fisheries Northwest Fisheries Science Center near Seattle, who is working on the new legislation. "It's difficult to know the quality of our food when we don't control where it comes from."

However some Northwest fishermen see it as the first step toward privatizing the oceans, giving public property to private industry, and destroying fishing communities. Some worry that allowing fish farming in the open ocean will lead to other less desirable uses such as garbage dumping.
Not to surprisingly the commercial fishermen are not pleased "This is one of the largest public trusts we have," says Jeremy Brown, a salmon troller in Bellingham, Wash. "Industry and the administration are looking at it and saying, 'How can we cash in?' "

[Uglygreen]

If they can grow them and sell them without damaging the rest of the ocean, it might relieve some pressure on the wild stocks and be a good thing. Lots of questions about the effect of concentrated waste, farmed fish escaping into the enviormnent, etc... though. Im on the fence on this one.

UG

[rebell]

I can see some good from the fish farms. But I can also see some bad.

Need more information on this one for sure!

[FEAR NO FISH!]

Can the fish that have disease in the farms transfer it to the other fish in the ocean?

[SSPey]

yes, the diseases can be transferred. That's not all either. Issues that deserve attention are pollution, predation, chemicals, disease, sea lice, and introduced species (e.g., Atlantic salmon).

Fish farming is one of those ideas that has appeal in the sense of feeding a burgeoning population, but the industry needs serious reform

here's some comments on what's happening to the north in BC

http://www.watershed-watch.org/ww/pu...rieflanger.PDF

[GOT2FISH]

Would these be pened fish that were raised from smolts? I dont understand ,how would they do this?

[yarndog2003]

How would this effect the money going to hatcheries??? Would money shift??? Would there be less importance for us anglers??? All these fish are going to be farmed, what's that going to leave us????

[GL2]

I thought I read in the Oregonian that:
WDF&W divers had counted up to 500 stray Antlantics in a Puget Sound river.
The Antlanics were escaped from a Washington fish farm.
Anyone else read this??
I'm I straight on this??

My opinion is:
I don't want some big Corparations stray farm fish entering Native fish bearing streams.
Then having them compeate with the nates.
Also thease fish are freaks. I think they play with there gentics, cuz thease fish grow real fast. I belive 3 times faster than normal.
Thus a Antlatic invader on "steriods" could be running a Coho of a spawning site.

Final point: if that is true about the stray Antlatics on a Puget sound river...
If there are any ESA runs on that river I'd be looking for a lawsuit.
How can farms be allowed to have escapes, mixing & compeating with Native & ESA runs??

Who's got some science on this??

Question:
I read a while back some guy in Washington, was raising Salmon smolts in rearing ponds fed by creek running thru his land.
The sate made him remove the rearing ponds, because he never had a permit to alter the sreambed or flow.
Long & short he had diverted the creek from it's natural state.
So, it's all been ripped out & his run that he had going is gone.
He was getting a good return of fish too.

So my question is if he had permited the project,
( if he could) before he alterd the creek, could he raise what ever fish he wanted??
Does it have to be from Native stock to the creek??
Or can he raise Antlantics??

[ 12-24-2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[Uncle Roman]

Something smells, well, fishy. I see no benefits whatsoever for any of humanity, especially the common recreational fisherman. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[David Johnson]

Maybe they will put the commercials out of business, you know, all you who don't like the gill netters.....

However some Northwest fishermen see it as the first step toward privatizing the oceans, giving public property to private industry,

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Sounds like our forests, range land, minerals.......

Any way, if they can keep from recking our natural fish I'm for it, I think. I'm a little on the fence too.

[NEUTRON]

Just more GREED . I recently saw part of a documentary on a country over seas on the damage fish farms have had on native strains of salmon...
Just say no.... and why do we need them?

[GL2]

For those on the fence, I pose this question for you.

What will be the impacts on Native and ESA runs, compeating with strays. Can we chance the risks, of introduced fish(i.e. Antlantics).
Once non native species have a foothold, they are hard to eradicate.The non native species often start to disrupt the food chain, in a mirid of ways. Over predadation, can elimte a another specis that can lead to that species natural prey having a population explosion. They over feed and kill off another specis ECT..
Even non native plants, often over run and displace naitive plants.

My opinion is the you can't fully quantify the risks cuz we don't know all that could happen. All we know is that it could cause alot of problems.

The risk is akin to a unprotected one night stand. Years down the road the consaquences might show up.

My prediction:
%The Farms will come, and years down the road were gonna realize the impact to our Native & ESA runs. Then we will try to confront and bring change upon a entrenched Billion dollar indrusty. Armed with the best lawyers money can buy. They will fight reform cuz, it will hurt there profit margin.
The ironic part is they will be using the money they made damaging the envirioment ( witch belongs to you & me) to fight reform.
The party line of "renewable resources" & jobs from our "resources" will be rolled out.
Oppasition will be labeld anti-indrusrty, tree & salmon huggers. ECT...
This almost sounds like a rerun of other indtusty...
When are we gonna learn??

Issues like thease really help me understand were ELF is coming from. They know they are losing the fight against the big CORPs. They don't got the money. wich gives them the power to promote change.
Money = Power.

So I think ELF is so frusterated that the have resorted to what they eqate among themselves as "warfare" (crimanal they may be.)
But if you see yourself as a "revolutanairy" then all actions will be justifed in your mind.
So I think thats why they are conducting the ops they do.
In a sense i think they have given up on the system. They can't compeate against Big Corps. & big money, in the courts.

I'm a republician; and I'm about sick of this Haliburtion, & Big Bussniess stuff.
I'm not to blind to see.
Bush is my guy for National Securtiy, but he doesn't seem to have enough sense to not poop in his own back yard.
Balance baby Balance!
Sad thing is money seems to have alot higher density than the evirioment, so the balance is skewed.
I got a enviromental agenda.
That agenda being "Stop the Madnesss".
I'm pro "common sense"

My kid is 8 years old right now. Whats he gonna feel like when he shows his kid a picture, of us with a Native fish we C&R'd.
And his, kid ask's him why he doesn't take him fishing??
Then my kid will have to tell them, there gone.
I can't share that with you cuz, my daddy's generatation didn't look out for you.
We can fish Antlantics though, since they so many of them & they are non native there's no limit!

I don't want to leave my grandchilden with the "booby prize."

[ 12-25-2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[fortywinks]

Something else touched on in that article in case you missed it......the grand plan will undoubtedly include a provision to allow conversion of old oil rig platforms into fish farm platforms with the oil companies getting huge tax breaks.....makes me warm & fuzzy all over.

The impression I got was that other countries are getting into it, or will get into it and so of course we must get into it or be left behind(i.e. making the bucks).

It primarily dealt with geneticly altered Cod.

[Hottamale1]

Neutron...

I saw the same documentary. It was somewhere near Iceland...? Doesn't really matter where but the impacts were HUGE, almost uncontrollable. Thousands of these fish somehow "escaped" and are now breading with the wild stocks, competing for food, shelter, etc.

One local said catching a pen raised fish was like dragging in a piece of wet driftwood...ZERO fight, almost dead.

I think MUCH more needs to be done as far as understanding just how many they expect WILL escape....Cuz' you know they will...

Scott

PS...My NEW website will be up & running within a week or so...sorry for the extended absence.

[Uncle Roman]

If I was not blinded by rage, I would have probably made a couple of points that GL2 made.
Tell it, bro!!

[MicroFish]

A pox on 'em!! I'm wishing for an outbreak of mad fish disease the likes of which they've never seen (you know, the kind that only infects farmed fish).

[GL2]

[boater]

Originally posted by GL2:


Final point: if that is true about the stray Antlatics on a Puget sound river...

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">we have caught escapee`s in the green river in seattle, the last big escape the tribes were out gillnetting them there was so many that got out. they have been sighted in rivers all the way to alaska.

[Bluetick]

Interesting, just when mad cow is acknowleged in our country.
Check this site out.
http://organicconsumers.org/madcow.htm
:whazzup: :whazzup: :whazzup: :whazzup:

[Ramstrong]

Another thing that I don't think people have caught onto yet. Where is the feed for all of these fish going to come from? Herring stocks are getting hit pretty hard to support the fish farming that's already happening.

[Metal Manipulator]

In referance to the Organic Consumers article. My question is where has there been any Dlk or Deer fed to any animal in the United States. If these kinds of articles do not give specific evidence to their claims then I sugest not posting them any where. It is damaging and irresponsible. Feeding Deer and Elk to farm animals BS!

[Fish mojo]

Bush Administration Begins Planning for Massive new Fish Farms

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

Bush Administration bureaucrats have begun planning for huge ocean based fish farming operations.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

The Bush Administration wants to expand fish farming by a factor of five times in the next 20 years.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">There is a common theme here. GW and his cronnies have no regard for the environmental impacts of their actions. Just the $$ and tax shelters for his big business friends.

[Vic Carrao]

Here in BC we have been battling fish farms for quite a few years. The biggest issues have been around the sea lice, disease and escapement.

Mature fish can withstand massive attacks by sea lice but it's the imature fish that are migrating past these fish farms that become effected. Sea lice will attach themselves to these small fry and within days,die. The Broughton Archepelo Pink salmon runs have been wiped out because from sea-lice.

Here on the Fraser River we have seen a massive increase of sea lice returning on mature salmon, especially sockeye salmon. It's hard to say if it will effect these fish in the mature state.

I have enclosed a few quote's, news releases and links from other discussions on this subject. Hopefully it will help you decide to fight the hell out of this.

"Interesting article in today's Times-Colonist about the 1.6 million young Atlantic salmon that are being killed by Heritage Aquaculture (Campbell River)at one of their sites northeast of here. They have IHN, commonly known as sockeye disease and will now be used for compost. The article goes on a bit about the whole thing but the most telling sentence is the last one. "A federal Fisheries Department official couldn't be reached for comment." Wow, what a surprise!"

"In another part of the world, Scotland, they apparently have the same kind of myopic, ignorant, petty, incredibly naive and generally out of touch with reality officials as we do here. With the expansion of industrial salmon farms starting in 1989 in Scotland comes the advent of three different types of toxic blooms: Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning, (ASP), Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning, (PSP) and good old Diarrhetic Shellfish Poisoning, (DSP). This has resulted in thousands of square miles of coastal waters in northwest, north and northeast Scotland being closed to shellfish harvesting. There have been "voluntary" closures in 29 other West Highland and area lochs."
read more...http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure...ML/004056.html

Irish Experience Suggests Fish Farms
May Be Cause of Pink Salmon Collapse in B.C.


OTTAWA- "The Irish experience would suggest that the collapse of pink salmon stocks in British Columbia this year may be linked directly to the fish farms located on key coastal migration routes," said John Cummins, M.P. (Delta-South Richmond).

Sea lice swarming around fish farms may form deadly obstacles through which wild salmon from rivers adjacent to the Broughton Archipelago must swim when they undertake their migration to the sea.


A decade ago sea trout stocks collapsed mysteriously in Ireland. All the usual suspects were trotted out by scientists: over-fishing, forest practices, predation, the weather, food chain problems, migratory stress, disease, plus the novel idea of a sea lice infestation from salmon farms.

After considerable study and analysis, Irish scientists found no evidence of a disease or environmental factor which would trigger a stock collapse. The only consistent link to the disappearance of the sea trout was the high concentration of sea lice found in all fish farms.

In the later half of the 1980's, salmon farm production in the bays on the west coast of Ireland expanded dramatically. Sea lice levels soared. The Irish sea trout lice infestation and stock collapse were only observed in the areas of intensive salmon farming

In their studies scientists identified three vital pieces of evidence:

young sea trout migrating by farms on their way to the sea were consistently infested with lice sufficient to kill them,

95% of the sea lice causing the problem were of fish farm origin, and

of the 60 plus rivers sampled around the coast of Ireland between 1991 and 1996, the sea trout lice infestation and stock collapse was, without exception, recorded only in areas where salmon farming was taking place.

"The difference between the Irish and Canadian experience with sea lice infestations and stock collapse is; where the Irish government scientists speak and write openly about the problem and the work they have undertaken to gain control over the devastation of fish stocks by lice from salmon farms, the Canadian government denies there is a problem."

"In Canada our fisheries department promotes salmon farming on salmon migratory routes in British Columbia, while denying that salmon farms can, if not properly sited and regulated, create a wall of death for young migrating salmon," Cummins stated.

"When young salmon migrate out of their rivers of origin into saltwater we must not require them to pass through deadly swarms of farm-based sea lice. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans has ignored the painful lessons learned by others and seems intent on repeating their mistakes. The Minister must put in place a regulatory framework that would site farms away from key migration routes and would ensure a lice-free period in the spring when young salmon move into saltwater bays and estuaries on their way to the ocean," concluded Cummins.


Here is a link to a search string that has many discussions on salmon farming. Good luck and don't get too depressed.
http://www.bcadventure.com/cgi-bin/board/search.cgi

[Boat Monkey]

I think it’s somewhat inevitable with both pros and cons:

Cons-
Local fishing communities, like logging communities, will need shift and traditional family trades will come to an end. Many families will need to move on as tourism and local jobs will also decrease as people leave creating a self feeding problem until equilibrium is found. Towns that have had rich fishing cultures for generations will wash away.

Pros-
A new industry with new jobs will be created and many, but most definitely not all, of the local fisherman will find new careers managing all aspects of these new fish-farms. Higher levels of scrutiny will focus on pollution, ecology and the health of local runs as well as genetic purity. Along with higher levels of scrutiny will come the discovery of new issues both already in place and ones caused by the new fish farms.

Fish-farms may also relieve pressure on local runs creating bumper runs that would have otherwise never even made to the mouths of our rivers. If the politics and finances are beneficially woven together, percentages of revenue from fish farms could be channeled to hatcheries and ecology restoration projects.

I think that there will be some tough decisions and the end benefits will come at some painful local costs but overall it will be a good thing.

[garyk]

Ramstrong has it right.

You've got to feed these farmed fish. And what they feed them is forage fish like herring, sardines, anchovey, maybe squid, etc. The very same food that salmon feed on, and the that are vital to other ocean fishes as well.

So basically, what they're doing is hacking away at a critical component of the ocean's foodchain, to provide cheap protein, to raise cheap fish.

In my opinion, stripping the ocean of forage fish may be the very worst impact of this industry.

[Mojo]

These "Monster Farms" will pollute the ocean with the concentrations of fish waste, deplete the natural food sources for the native fish, potentially block sport and commercial fishermen from fishing areas we now use, and potentially introduce new and exotic species of fish to our local waters. The bright side is...hmmm, can't find one. Spend the umteen billion dollars destined for creating this industry on fixing the decimated runs on the Pacific Coast, and revitalize the sport and commercial fisheries that are here now. Makes much better sense.

Dave, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I see a letter or 4 to my congressional folks.

[fishing is life]

Bad news stuff, I am with Ramstrong and Gary K. A lot more impact studies need to be done before pushing this through.

[Uglygreen]

I would like to see the source on this - I did a quick google search and found nothing.

UG

[ampersat]

Over the years, I have heard about fish farming and similar aquatic species farming. To the last one, they have all suffered the same problems: concentrated pollution, concentrated disease, and escapism. Until these issues can be effectively dealt with, and with documented proof, I say NO WAY!!

[boater]

here`s alittle more info, LINK

[Uncle Roman]

Don't you think there will be no need to worry about wild fish or riparian habitat, when the industrial farmers have gluts of these fish?
I really doubt GW gives a rat's about wild fish or recreational fishing. He hunts pheasants out of a box, and fishes in a private stocked pond. Kinda feudal, don't you think?

[drhall99]

Fish farming can ONLY be safely accomplished in LAND LOCKED pens with absolutley NO means of escape into the wild. At the very least, they should be forced to buy eggs from the local hatcheries and all of the fish MUST be fin clipped so that the escapees may be caught and bred as hatchery fish (better the devil you know..). Anything else will be environmental disaster. And yes, I can cite facts to back my opinion.

D.

[TonTo]

Hmmm "MAD"salmon what will they think of next? I think givin the choice I'ld stick with the happy ,emotionaly stable,good natured native variety. :smile: