Wild fish kept

[Bobberologist]

I ran into a guy at the Kalama ramp, says he just started fishing Salmon last fall and loved it.
He had some nice spingers in the box. Caught them on Alvins or Brads Wobblers. " its the only thing I've ever used" he said. He said he caught 5 so far this spring on the same lures in the same water as last Sept.

When I looked at the fish I was shocked. Both had all their fins intacted. I explained about clipped fish and the became ill before my eyes. I told him he better just hurry on out of this area and show those fish to no one.

Honest, ignorant mistake by a newbie,

[ 03-16-2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Bobberologist ]

[The Overfishin Condition]

Yikes :depressed: . That's really too bad for all involved parties (including fish), you did the right thing though, getting fined, license revoked etc wouldn't really help a guy who just didn't know any better.

[chinarider]

Originally posted by Bobberologist:
I ran into a guy at the Kalama ramp, says he just started fishing Salmon last fall and loved it.

When I looked at the fish I was shocked. Both had all their fins intacted. I explained about clipped fish and the became ill before my eyes. I told him he better just hurry on out of this area and show those fish to no one.

Honest, ignorant mistake by a newbie,

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Ignorance is no excuse - I'm sorry, but the regulations are available anywhere fishing liscenses are sold and online.

I'm not saying you didn't do the right thing - I'm all for education - But I wouldn't call it a "Honest, Ignorant mistake".

I must admit, you probably shows more grace dealing with that than I would have.

Tom

[Bobberologist]

Chinarider, Love that dancing bear. I know the law the law is the law.. If all non clipped fish were indeed wild or native I would have been a little less forgving. But when you really stop to think about it. Less than 5% of the fish from Wind river and Drano hatcheries are clipped. I have to wonder who are the ignorant ones here?
Remember the indians, woops excuuuuuuuuse me "Native Americans" Still have their nets in above the dam at this time. And please tell me why 2% of the the fishing population get 30% percent of the harvestable Salmon.

To tell you the truth I'm the one that feels like the poor Ignorant B*****D here...

[ 03-16-2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Bobberologist ]

[BrionLutz]

Chinarider,

I'd be a bit more lenient...having almost done the same thing.

First day fishing in the new boat with my buddies. 2nd day fishing in Oregon. We nail a nice 25 lb fish...WheeeOooo. Are we good or what.

Just as we are boating it, Julie Cates, one of the guides calls to see how we are doing on our first day on our own.

We tell you were are doing fiiiinee...describe the fish and she says...you idiots...it's a native Chinook...throw it back.

Which we do and it swims off.

It's not really clear when you buy the license.

Brion

[Schimoozie]

Bobberologist, you did the right thing, by keeping with the spirit of the law, instead of the letter of the law in that instance.

You probably made a friend for life!

[wetonwhite]

Remember the indians, woops excuuuuuuuuse me "Native Americans" Still have their nets in above the dam at this time. And please tell me why 2% of the the fishing population get 30% percent of the harvestable Salmon

YOU KNOW BOBBER? BOLT SAYS THAT THE TRIBES SHALL HAVE THE ABILATY TO HARVEST 1/2 THE UPRIVER FISH SOOOOOOOO IF THAY ONLY TAKE 30% YOU ARE GETTING A GOOD DEAL... LETS TRY TO RESPECT THE FOKES THAT STILL SEE THE SALMON AS A LIFE GIVING GIFT FROM THE GREAT SPRIT AND NOT A SPORTS OBJECT

[jdbrightfish]

does any one really know the regs and understand what you can and can't keep and when and where and how many of what day and moth you can keep it. you need and IOWA judge to understand the dam thing , but honestly you really do need to read the regs and watch out for the new postings they put out at the sporting good shop or just call the wildlife offices :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

I guess this happens alot.

What I understand, is that when the press starts reporting really, really hot fishing, everyone wants in on it, and they dont read the regs like they should.

I've witnessed people that honestly don't have a clue what they are doing out there, like in ski boats, or canoes even! No net, just a rod and not even the right gear! They may catch something, too!

It's scary!

That is the time we need to step in and help them out. Resist the urge to get angry, or to make fun of them.

It really is our responsibility as educated anglers to share what we know, so that we can protect our fisheries.

Jen

[jdbrightfish]

I've seen people last year keeping coho thinking they where chinook so i had to say, look at there mouth before you net them! They said a fish is a fish , yea and a ticket is a ticket.

[chinarider]

You are right, Brion - I guess I din't think back a few years ago to my first fish and didn't put myself in his shoes.

I am very careful before fishing - I have 1 copy of the regs in my "fish box" that goes in the truck and one I pick up occasionally in the house just to browse.
If I have a question, I ask someone.

Interesting thread - I guess I'm still a little hot under the collar from the Poaching threads!

Thanks for setting me straight,
Tom

[Nuttinbutnet]

I don't buy it . This guy has been fishing for seven months and does not know about finclipped fish. Does this guy live in a cave? I buy a tag, it is my responsibility to know the rules. There is no excuse!

[ZaQ]

Isn't some kinda contract thing, where by signing for the license, you agree to the regs. If you don't know the regs, you shant be fishin. Sounds like a rookie mistake, I have made them too, but there is a freakin poster explaining it all right at the licensing agent desk, most of the boat ramps have signs posting somewhere. Geez....................I can imagine his feeling when he found out what he had done. I remember the feeling, fish in the bottom of the boat, lots of smiles and high fives, than I am sitting there looking at the fish, and the creep comes on. Oh crap, boys fishing trip is over, don't talk about this fish to anyone lets load the boat and go home. Whew............... :shocked:

[Ty]

I worked as a on a creel survey for Tillimook bay in 94'. It was amazing the number of expereienced angler that didn't know the difference between coho and chinook. It doesn't supprise me that even expereinced anglers don't understand the regulations, but remember not everyone lives and breaths fishing like most of us on this board. Instead of resenting ignorance, sportmans groups and state agencies should really push education of the general public on these issues.

By the way the Native American are not responsible for the demise of salmon and steelhead in the Columbia River. Every time you flip that light switch on, or watch large grain barges goin up and down the big Columbia Resevior, don't loose sight of what the real issues are.....

As for the not clipping the fins of hatchery fish is one of the most irresponsible things that I have heard as a fisheries managment in years. However, use you god given right to think for yourself. Why would these agencies allow this to happen? Simple, who better than the Army Corps of Destruction than to be tickled to death that the tribes don't want to clip fish, then when the fish pass through the damns they are counted as natives.

As a sportsman everyone should be outraged by such a lack of responsibility of everyone involved with the Columbia River Salmon recovery project.

[corrirod]

Bummer for the fish but I think you handled it properly. I don't think $600 worth of fines would've made this anymore of a learning experience for him, in fact, it probably would have made him feel less sorry about keeping the ones he had before. I would guess to say it WAS an honest mistake, granted an ignorant one, but still honest and he probably still has a sick feeling in his stomach about breaking the law and will never do it again.

It's the (Silly Billy's) that do it intentionally and don't tell you about it that need the fines.

[ 03-17-2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[willametteriveroutlaw]

"YOU KNOW BOBBER? BOLT SAYS THAT THE TRIBES SHALL HAVE THE ABILATY TO HARVEST 1/2 THE UPRIVER FISH SOOOOOOOO IF THAY ONLY TAKE 30% YOU ARE GETTING A GOOD DEAL... LETS TRY TO RESPECT THE FOKES THAT STILL SEE THE SALMON AS A LIFE GIVING GIFT FROM THE GREAT SPRIT AND NOT A SPORTS OBJECT" [/QB][/QUOTE]

Thats an interesting perspective, in most of my recent expiriences, these fish are viewed as money by the native americans. "Commercial fisherman who don't care about finclips or endangered species."

[ 03-17-2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: willametteriveroutlaw ]

[Chrome Bumper]

I bet his ears were red. :shocked: Next time he looks sick, I hope it's from reading the fine print in the regs in a bobbing boat. One word: rooky

[chinarider]

Maybe the key to this is not only education, but helping the ODFW write the regulations more clearly for people to understand (Although that would be an undertaking in itself - Instead of just changing things year-to-year in blue, I think they'd have to do a full re-write into something that is easier to comprehend.)

Tom

[Dakotan]

This time of year, the ODFW regs remind me a lot of the tax laws and all those "clear as mud" instructions on the forms. :whazzup: I've fished intensively in the northwest for only a year and a half but have read the regs front to back, inside out just about everytime I decide to dip a line and I still am confused sometimes about what section of river I can fish and what fish I can keep depending on the time of year, the length of the fish, how many fins they possess, the color of their mouth. It is all quite confusing to new fisherpeople. :shocked: I don't blame the guy but I know if I were in his shoes (which I almost was in a time or two) I would've appreciated someone explaining the regs to me.

[Killertraylor]

I'm with nuttinbutnet - how do you go springer fishing, with all those people out there catching and releasing fish, and know enough about it to pick a really popular lure (someone must have gave him a tip there) and not know the regs? I guess he could have been fishing in an area all by himself (and always alone) but it doesn't make sense. On the other hand, if he did know the regs, what the heck is he doing showing you his fish!

I have to admit I'm suprised that most of the posts here are very forgiving. Based on how protective many ifishers are of "native" fish (even when they are cought legally in gillnets) I thought for sure you'd be crucified by at least a few people for not turning this guy in.

[No Wishin Just Fishin]

IGNORACE of the regs is NO excuse. $600 would have been a harsh lesson, but I bet He wouldn't have forgotten it either. If WE do not phelp tp protect the Native fish, then how can you expect anyone else to do so. I have turned in guys at the mouth of the Cowlitz for fishing alone with two rods out also. There are regs for a reason and once again ignorance is no excuse!!!If I keep an illegal fish I could lose my guide license , so I have no tolorance for ignorance of especially this rule. It is plastered everywhere at the license places the reg book and most boat ramps. I say fine the guy

[ultralight]

I, too, think that you did the right thing by not calling the state trooper. I just can't imagine anyone who knows the law showing you unclipped fish. Intent is always a huge factor for me in proscuting criminals, so $600 for ignorance is too harsh in my judgment.

[DriftR]

Fishing regulations are FREE. They come out every year. They are available when you purchase your license at the agents counter. I always get at least three every year. One for the jet sled, one for the drift boat and one to keep at home. I don't like to read them but I do every year. It is my responsibility to know the fishing regulations in the area I intend to fish. If I find areas in the regs that are strange and I don't understand them then I try and contact the ODFW office for clarification. The ODFW has a website and you can contact almost any employee of the ODFW by e-mail from that site. NO EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING THE RULES. Educate yourself the best you can, then ask for help if you need it. With the available info we have today, e-mails, cell phones, internet and just plain old ODFW free yearly regs there is no excuse. I am sick and tired of newbies who whine or look like a sad puppy when they are caught red handed for being stupid in the first place. EDUCATE YOURSELF and know the rules and regulations where you intend to fish. If you don't know then call a ODFW office and read the regs. PERIOD end of discussion.

[JeepMcMuddy]

First let me start by saying, I do think what he did was wrong and the court won't buy ignorance as a defense. BUT, if this gentlemen was fishing on the Kalama last fall, he WAS ABLE to keep non-clipped chinook (from pipeline to mouth). Perhaps he missed the date regulation in effect jan-july.

KALAMA RIVER (Cowlitz Co.)

SALMON Year-round 12" 6 SALMON - no more than 2 adults. Wild
COHO release. Release Wild CHINOOK
Jan. 1-July 31. Release all CHUM.
Upstream of the natural gas pipeline
crossing, release all CHINOOK Oct. 1-
Dec. 31.

It was very nice of you to help educate the guy. If he ignores your advice, and continues to fish illegally then by all means turn him in.

[Squirrely]

BrianLutz,

I hope Julie didnt tell you to release a fall fish while fishing b10? :grin:

[BrionLutz]

Squirrely,

I hope Julie didnt tell you to release a fall fish while fishing b10?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">She'll do anything to keep us out there. The first time out with Julie was 2001...the big crazy year at Astoria.

None of us (three immigrants, one OR native) had ever fished for salmon before. It was crazy...couldn't keep the rods in the water. We released a bunch of natives, kept a lot of coho..we were beat by noon.

Julie kept us out there until we were limited out...wouldn't let us go back. Of course, that didn't take more than a leisurely troll down near the church.

Got our revenge last year. Late in the season, had my buddy's kid out from Utah. Nothing all day...we make Julie stay out it til 4Pm and just as we are about to give up..the kid hooks two over 30 lbers in a row and the day was huge.

On releasing fish, Julie would simply cut the line right at the hook, cutting the hook if possible, no net, no yanking the hooks out of the fish, as little stress on the fish as possible.

Brion

[CohoClint]

it should not matter if he is a NEWBIE you should of turned him in you should not of let him get away with those native fish it relly gets me when poeple keep native fish and get away with it, and once people like that get away they are most likely too do it agian.

[chinarider]

Originally posted by CohoClint:
once people like that get away they are most likely too do it agian.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Actually, I read that differently - I was upset at first, and still am a little - But from the original post, it seems like this guy is just clueless, not a poacher.

If he intended to break the law, why was he so inclined to show the fish off? It doesn't make sense to me.

As many folks have said, hopefully we can help educate and reduce these problems in the future.

Tom

[corrirod]

I don't think anyone on this thread has said he DIDN'T do something wrong. If the State Patrol was there and ticketed him I would have shed no tears, he screwed up. As far as I can tell, Bobberologist did the police work. He pointed out the wrong doing, determined the guy made a mistake and probably feels horrible about it, and decided not to get the police involved. I can respect that. I'm sure had the reverse happened: Bobberologist sees him catch a wild fish and bonk it, he confronts him and the guy is a @#@#@#@ about it, so Bobberologist calls the troopers in.

KillerTraylor, do you really want to go down the net road here?

I suppose if anyone here was speeding, and pulled over by the state trooper, and had the option of him just giving you a warning or writing you a ticket, you'd DEMAND to be ticketed right CohoClint? Myself, I leave it to the discretion of the officer.

[Squirrely]

I hope Julie didnt tell you to release a fall fish while fishing b10?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I meant was that unless something has changed , You dont have to release unmarked fall CHINOOK salmon, just Coho, and yes some fall chinook are clipped, but that is a small number...

I was just being funny

[rob allen]

I'll make this simple.. There is nowhere in the columbia system that is loaded with wild springers! it is bad of anyone to keep any unclipped springers anywhere even where legal to do so! It is EVERY anglers responsibility to know and understand the regs before you go. Ignorance or being a newbie is NO excuse!! This guys was guilty by his neglegence! There is no innocent mistake when we are talking about an ESA listed species ant the intentional killing ther of. Our season could VERY easily be cut short or cancelled! It is EXTREMELY important that each and every one of us handle every wild chinook as though it were the very last one... People like this need to be educated no only about the importance of wild fish but the importance of reading and understanding the regs before you get to the water..

[number1 G.I.]

Hey Bobber, kudos to you for the benefit of the doubt in this case. As Jennie indicated, let's educate not humiliate. I was once new to this game and had made the mistake of keeping a Coho during my early days fishing outside @ Tillamook. We had boated 3 Kings and when we hooked and landed our fourth we were in a frenzy. Last fish to the boat seemed a little small but I had no experience with silvers and allowed it onboard. When we arrived at Old Mill I was greeted by a raging guide who promptly began screaming at me as being the demise of the wild Coho. When OSP arrived, a huge audience was watching me as my best day became a nightmare. I had always fished legally, ethically and now I was scorned and humiliated by my peers. I later mailed a letter along with my ticket to the court and recieved a reduction in fine, but, my payment was the shame and embarrassment I had been subjected to. I only wish I had run into someone like you that day. Today I educate, not humiliate those with good intentions but lack in experience. Rock on! :tongue:

[CohoClint]

look chinarider all i know that a person that keeps a native fish probile does not no much about the law or dosent care about native fish im just saying i relly dont know what happend i wasnot thier so i dont know it relly frustrates me when people keep native fish :depressed:

[FishBowl]

Break the law, pay the fine ignorance or not [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] Educate him and then make the call to the tip line, he don't have to know it was you if you are scared :shocked:

Ignorance is no excuse and while this fellow may have had honorable intentions he should be up to speed on the regs.
A few years ago I got cited for fishing in closed waters. I took someone elses word that the area was open to fishing....well it wasn't and I got a $75 fine for it. I deserved it too! I should have known that the area was closed because I should have read the regs.
It's hard to fathom that someone couldn't know the rules about wild fish with the amount of information there is out there.

[corrirod]

So Stew, if the officer had offered you a warning, rather than a ticket, would you have taken it? I think so. Would you have continued to fish there if you would have recieved a warning rather than a fine? Based on some people's opinion here you would have, I personally don't think so.

I'm not defending the take of native fish, just defending Bobberologists choice to educate this particular person. Had the person tried to hide it in any way or seem to be unconcerned about the importance of releasing these fish.....then stick it to them. That does not appear to be the case though.

[ 03-17-2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

[Bankbound]

When I was 13, YES 13!! I got the same 75$ ticket as stew for fishing a spinner in a "fly fishing only" area. A warning would have worked for me. I did not know the regs, as I was the only one in camp who fished, and very young (I caught no fish in the three days prior in the same area, same spinner). The game warden ticketed me, and I have never failed to read the regs. thouroughly ever since.

P.S. The Judge made me write a 500 word essay about fish and game laws and called it good. I thinked he was a bit miffed at the cop.

MH

[BrionLutz]

Chinarider,

I am very careful before fishing - I have 1 copy of the regs in my "fish box" that goes in the truck and one I pick up occasionally in the house just to browse.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Me too. I even have this plastic picture thing to differentiate the fish.

I took my neighbor out fishing one day. I'm the recent immigrant, he and his family have been here for generations and he's been fishing here forever.

We hook into a helluva Chinook...I mean it's peeling line and heading to Astoria (we are a bit East of Camas at the time).

20 minutes later, the biggest, baddest Chinook he's ever caught in his life is in the net, in the water, next to the boat.

It's a native I tell him and we have to let it go, which I do.

He's going nuts! Thinks I'm crazy. He's chasing me around the boat with the regs rolled up like a baseball bat. Regs don't address it because it's a Summer Chinook, first time season was open in 30 years.

Finally I call ODFW on the phone and have them tell him we had to let it go. We still laugh about it.

So even those who have fished here forever can get confused by the regs and can make honest mistakes. The ODFW folks have to enforce the law but I think they'll tell you there are times that folks just get it wrong.

Like Jennie says, it's our job to educate folks. When I see folks who look like they might be getting it wrong, I figure out some way to talk to them.

If I see someone obviously poaching, I don't hestiate to let the ODFW checker know.

Brion

[Ty]

People make mistakes..... As a creel sampler in 94 in Tillimook I saw alot of COho kept, in fact two over 19#'s, and it happend to be a year when the Trask Hatchery had a record run of 10k+, while the native fish where struggling. On a busy weekend creeling boats at Old Mill Marina I happened to be working boats randomly behind a state trooper. The trooper had already checked their tags and licence's and the four fish they had. All I wanted was the specific fishing info and take biodata on the fish. When they set the gunnysack of fish up on the dock one of the heads slid out into view and I knew we had trouble.
Yes, one of the four fish was a Coho, and yes I knew just as soon as I saw only the Bulbous Kype of the buck...... I think the fishing patrones in the boat seemed innocent, but when I started the interview they said he already checked us... I replied that I was randomly selecting every four boats and not looking for law violations.

As a fisherman...... three nice chinook and one coho, how could you not know one was different? However, a state trooper, mind you a very good state trooper, with lots of expereince mis-identified the same fish.

So, really all of those so critical of those who break the law by mistake..... we are all human and everyone makes mistakes.

[BrionLutz]

Squirrely

What I meant was that unless something has changed , You dont have to release unmarked fall CHINOOK salmon, just Coho, and yes some fall chinook are clipped, but that is a small number...
I was just being funny

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">No sweat. That's how I took it.

Brion

Originally posted by corrirod:
So Stew, if the officer had offered you a warning, rather than a ticket, would you have taken it? I think so. Would you have continued to fish there if you would have recieved a warning rather than a fine? Based on some people's opinion here you would have, I personally don't think so.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Of course I would have taken the warning.... I don't know whose opinion you are referring to but No! I wouldn't have continued to fish in that closed area I have only one fish and game violation ever and that was it.

[Sore Back]

Reg's book is right there free where he purchased his lic. & Tag. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]