Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady - www.ifish.net
Leave no Dog Behind

Go Back   www.ifish.net > Ifish Fishing and Hunting > The Salty Dogs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2012, 06:59 AM   #1
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Looking for opinion's on building a 28' Great Alaskan to replace my 30' Grady 10"9' beam. The Grady MIGHT be a bit more sea worthy but I would not want to be out fishing in any conditions that would be too much for the GA. The main reason I am considering this is the Grady gets at best 1.25 mpg the GA should get in at least the 4 mpg range, specks call for 5 mpg.
Close inshore fishing this would not be a big deal but chasing tuna 15 days a year up 100 miles per trip and halibut 10 or so days a year nets out to about $8,000 dollars in fuel savings. The GA is about 6000 pounds lighter loaded up with all the same goodies as the Grady other than having one 225 Yamaha rather than two on the Grady.
This weight difference does not take into account full fuel on the Grady is 310 gallons 1860 lb for a max range of 387 miles versus 100 gallons for a max range of 450 miles at 600 lb saves another 1260 pounds. Again I say
Let me hear your thoughts pro's/con's. Thanks I need a little nudge here building this boat would be a lot of work but well worth it money wise and very, very rewarding. This would make a heck of a kit boat

ADDED COMMENT
Running heavy as for Tuna the millage would drop, I'm sure the mpg speck is calculated like any other rig car or boat running at its best not loaded. Something I should have added was a comment about expecting the mileage to drop on tuna runs (my oversight) As well as the mileage my Grady is currently getting 1.25 is pretty much at its best also and will drop (hope it does not drop to 3/4 mpg) . I have only had the boat barely one year and haven run it real heavy yet other than holding of a lot of fuel. We have only done short runs sturgeon & salmon fishing in and out of the CR bar and you don't need much gear for that (sometimes you need guts for that bar that's when I sturgeon fish). I would say 3 mpg running a GA heavy is pretty close. Beats the heck out of 3/4 mpg but that is yet to be determined on both boats.

__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo


Last edited by Grady 300; 11-20-2012 at 10:28 AM.
Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:06 AM   #2
crabbait
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 30,859
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Nice boat, great lines, but the cockpit looks to be only about 6'. Seems small for the overall length. Cold you stretch it two feet or shorten the cabin?
crabbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:27 AM   #3
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbait View Post
Nice boat, great lines, but the cockpit looks to be only about 6'. Seems small for the overall length. Cold you stretch it two feet or shorten the cabin?
From what I understand from the designer stretching it two feet can be done but not recommended to change the length. all calculations are from 26 feet to 28 feet long. The cabin can be shortened and I would probably do that maybe a foot.I kind of like staying within the major design like the OAL. I thought about stretching my Tolman Wide Body but I kept it to the specified length 21'4" guys have stretched then to 23'.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:31 AM   #4
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Brian did a decent job of drawing up a giant Tolman in the form of the GA. For our fishery I'd look more at the Lobstah cabin:



I do think he's a little optimistic on the fuel economy, but 3-4 NMPG is possible.

Now if'n it were me, I wouldn't just look at that boat to replace your Grady. If a 225-300hp OB is what you're looking at, have you considered the CS25 from Bateau?




Or the LB26 which would offer the choice of a light diesel and excellent fuel economy in a nice sized package for our fishery:







Of course that's just a few in the method you're comfortable with, and there are others, but all of them will get out and kill albacore and halibut with any Grady.

E

Last edited by Eric S; 05-01-2012 at 07:32 AM.
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:14 AM   #5
ron m
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corvallis & Newport
Posts: 5,769
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

From my experience, I have trouble accepting 5 mpg with a 28 ft boat powered with a 225. Maybe there's something wrong with my 200 Honda, my boat, or me, but I get a little over 2 nm per gal on most trips, maybe 2.5 if going for rockfish and the boat is not loaded much, but around 2 nm per gal when going for tuna if the conditions are decent. I know Skein got better mileage, maybe close to 4 mpg (not nm), but he has a 140 for power, don't know what BOE or Kenai get. So IMO it would be good to recalculate your fuel savings.

It would be nice to have the skills to build a boat, I've sure learned a lot about what I'd want if I could afford a new boat. Mostly little things, but a few bigger things too.
ron m
ron m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:23 AM   #6
2Rotten
Ifish Nate
 
2Rotten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Springfield
Posts: 3,012
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron m View Post
From my experience, I have trouble accepting 5 mpg with a 28 ft boat powered with a 225.
I agree that 5 mpg may be optimistic for realistic tuna and hali conditions; Rainbow's hull is 21'6" plus the offshore bracket extends the LOA to 24'. Most tuna days Rainbow gets between 3.5 and 4 mpg with the 2010 Honda 225. That said, your build project looks Sweet!

__________________
Alumaweld Formula Vee "Rainbow"
2Rotten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #7
DogZilla15
King Salmon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,226
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

As reliable as modern outboards are, I'd feel a whole lot better with twin 150's. Whatever can be done to maximize the fishing deck space will contribute to a smooth running operation.

What about ice, slush tank, fish storage, live bait well? I can't see the layout plans very well, maybe this stuff is covered.
DogZilla15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:41 AM   #8
Nalu
 
Nalu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beverly Beach, OR
Posts: 6,070
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

I think you are trying to compare apples and oranges here. The old adage of "no replacement for displacement" may not always be right, but a 6000+ lb. difference in weight makes the vessels completely different beasts.

You certainly would be able to fish the new one on probably just as many days with solid safety and better fuel economy, so if that is the ultimate goal, then it may just be the thing. Would be a great build, and something certainly to be proud of.

The cons.... this is just from my perspective.....Going from a vessel that can grind through 2-3 foot chop for 40 miles to a boat that will not do that....tough, and no way would I do it. I've run too many days, too far out to have to slow down in short chop.
__________________
The Sea-J in Depoe Bay- Small group charter fishing for the true fisherman.

nalucharters.com - Shimano/G.Loomis Pro Staff
Grady White 282- 4 Person Executive Charters

Anybody can catch a tuna in '07

By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea. They, as He, are mightier than me. - M.J.
Nalu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:49 AM   #9
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron m View Post
From my experience, I have trouble accepting 5 mpg with a 28 ft boat powered with a 225. Maybe there's something wrong with my 200 Honda, my boat, or me, but I get a little over 2 nm per gal on most trips, maybe 2.5 if going for rockfish and the boat is not loaded much, but around 2 nm per gal when going for tuna if the conditions are decent. I know Skein got better mileage, maybe close to 4 mpg (not nm), but he has a 140 for power, don't know what BOE or Kenai get. So IMO it would be good to recalculate your fuel savings.

It would be nice to have the skills to build a boat, I've sure learned a lot about what I'd want if I could afford a new boat. Mostly little things, but a few bigger things too.
ron m
A lot of that depends on the weight of your boat and the dead rise and of course the weight of the boat. The motor speck for the GA calls for 150hp to 200hp and it may well be the 5mpg is calculated with the 150hp. I mentioned the 225 Yamaha because that's what I have now on the Grady. i would do more research on motor size and go down in hp most likely. Light wood hulls get up on plane much easier.
i am certain fuel economy would go down when loaded up for tuna but the 1.25 I get now in the Grady is fishing for Sturgeon and Salmon not loaded down for tuna so my mileage will drop with the Grady also just dont know how much yet as this will be my first year for tuna. I will definitely find out though
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo


Last edited by Grady 300; 05-01-2012 at 08:57 AM.
Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #10
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Tailgunner, at a very light 1500lbs on the trailer, and at only 23 feet long, would plod through a 2 foot chop all day long at 12 kts. We slowed down last year to 6kts on the halibut grounds, but that was due to a 25kt southerly pushing up an honest 4 foot wind wave with some serious sheep farming all around us.

The biggest piece is how the boat is designed to work. A boat like a Grady or the other larger, deep deadrise vessels perform terribly in the 12-16kt range, burning a ton of fuel at that speed because they're trapped in the hump/hole speeds. The lighter boats like Tailgunner and the Tolman derivatives, are actually 100% planing at these lower speeds, and run rather efficiently in the speed range that keeps you from flying off the waves.

I'd say 3-4 NMPG is pretty accurate for our loading, as Tailgunner, with 3 guys over 200lbs, 800lbs of ice, and loaded with 450lbs of tuna on the run home put down a 110 NM voyage on 31 gallons of gas, and that was before she had trim tabs on, which would have probably cut a few gallons off the total.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 09:20 AM   #11
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalu View Post

The cons.... this is just from my perspective.....Going from a vessel that can grind through 2-3 foot chop for 40 miles to a boat that will not do that....tough, and no way would I do it. I've run too many days, too far out to have to slow down in short chop.
Good point I will have to check on that. This is why I posted looking for things I will miss. I know in the Grady I have been at least 3 foot chop fishing out of the CR bar chasing Salmon and most of the boats coming in were going pretty slow as I cruised by them at a pretty good clip not really pounding at all pretty good ride really.
Thanks for the comment it really helps
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 09:24 AM   #12
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
Tailgunner, at a very light 1500lbs on the trailer, and at only 23 feet long, would plod through a 2 foot chop all day long at 12 kts. We slowed down last year to 6kts on the halibut grounds, but that was due to a 25kt southerly pushing up an honest 4 foot wind wave with some serious sheep farming all around us.

The biggest piece is how the boat is designed to work. A boat like a Grady or the other larger, deep deadrise vessels perform terribly in the 12-16kt range, burning a ton of fuel at that speed because they're trapped in the hump/hole speeds. The lighter boats like Tailgunner and the Tolman derivatives, are actually 100% planing at these lower speeds, and run rather efficiently in the speed range that keeps you from flying off the waves.

I'd say 3-4 NMPG is pretty accurate for our loading, as Tailgunner, with 3 guys over 200lbs, 800lbs of ice, and loaded with 450lbs of tuna on the run home put down a 110 NM voyage on 31 gallons of gas, and that was before she had trim tabs on, which would have probably cut a few gallons off the total.

E
I would be all over that kind of mpg even at 3 mpg I would be cutting my fuel bill by two thirds.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #13
Nalu
 
Nalu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beverly Beach, OR
Posts: 6,070
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady 300 View Post
Good point I will have to check on that. This is why I posted looking for things I will miss. I know in the Grady I have been at least 3 foot chop fishing out of the CR bar chasing Salmon and most of the boats coming in were going pretty slow as I cruised by them at a pretty good clip not really pounding at all pretty good ride really.
Thanks for the comment it really helps

I didn't realize that this would be your first year for tuna. I think after a year running 40-50 miles each way you will determine what is your preference. I'd suggest that you hitch a ride on a comparable boat in comparable conditions and then make the decision on how it stacks up to the Grady and then decide.

Some people are more than content to make way at 12 knots and get good fuel economy in chop. I understand that, and if that is what they feel is best for them, then it makes total sense.

On the other hand, where tailgunner was making 12 knots in 2 foot chop, you will comfortably be running your Grady at 25+ knots. Where Eric says he had to slow down to 6 knots in 4 foot chop, you can still run at anywhere between 15-20 knots with your hand on the throttle. Us "Grady Girls" have done it multiple times in OTC events, and poor weather returning from tuna fishing, so it's not made up numbers.

For reference, the year before last a Southerly brewed up on the tuna grounds and hit like a wall. I came home into a quartering sea of wind chop that was a solid 4+ feet and took almost two hours to get home. I passed a well known Salty Dog in his Ed Wing battle tank just after departing the grounds and and it took him 4+ hours to get back in. I saw multiple boats entering port in Depoe 2-3 hours after I did that left either at the same time, or before me. My fuel economy was certainly worse than normal, but not that bad as I still maintained 16-18 knots.

So, I would just caution you to decide what you want out of a vessel.
__________________
The Sea-J in Depoe Bay- Small group charter fishing for the true fisherman.

nalucharters.com - Shimano/G.Loomis Pro Staff
Grady White 282- 4 Person Executive Charters

Anybody can catch a tuna in '07

By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea. They, as He, are mightier than me. - M.J.
Nalu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #14
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalu View Post
I didn't realize that this would be your first year for tuna. I think after a year running 40-50 miles each way you will determine what is your preference. I'd suggest that you hitch a ride on a comparable boat in comparable conditions and then make the decision on how it stacks up to the Grady and then decide.

Some people are more than content to make way at 12 knots and get good fuel economy in chop. I understand that, and if that is what they feel is best for them, then it makes total sense.

On the other hand, where tailgunner was making 12 knots in 2 foot chop, you will comfortably be running your Grady at 25+ knots. Where Eric says he had to slow down to 6 knots in 4 foot chop, you can still run at anywhere between 15-20 knots with your hand on the throttle. Us "Grady Girls" have done it multiple times in OTC events, and poor weather returning from tuna fishing, so it's not made up numbers.

For reference, the year before last a Southerly brewed up on the tuna grounds and hit like a wall. I came home into a quartering sea of wind chop that was a solid 4+ feet and took almost two hours to get home. I passed a well known Salty Dog in his Ed Wing battle tank just after departing the grounds and and it took him 4+ hours to get back in. I saw multiple boats entering port in Depoe 2-3 hours after I did that left either at the same time, or before me. My fuel economy was certainly worse than normal, but not that bad as I still maintained 16-18 knots.

So, I would just caution you to decide what you want out of a vessel.
All very solid points and your numbers about running through the big chop are right on and it is a good feeling to smile and wave as you go by most all other boats. Grady's are IMO are the cats meow. I get my best mpg running 28 to 30 kts so I also like put the pedal to the metal when ever I can, running 12-18 kts sucks a lot of fuel. I definitely plan on fishing at least one season prior to making any decisions on building a boat of the magnitude of a GA. In the past I have covered most of the fuel bills because we really were not burning much fuel running in the CR for sturgeon and salmon. That is all going to change fishing out of Newport, if your on my boat everyone will pony up $$ for the days expenses. So in reality my cost wont be too bad split 4 ways.
I do think I'll be able to get out on a Tolman Jumbo and even though its not a GA it is the closest thing i can find to one. The jumbo is another fine boat
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo


Last edited by Grady 300; 05-01-2012 at 10:22 AM.
Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #15
Bait O' Eggs
King Salmon
 
Bait O' Eggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Amity
Posts: 12,429
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron m View Post
don't know what BOE or Kenai get. So IMO it would be good to recalculate your fuel savings.
I get about 2.3 nautical mpg with my Honda 225 on my edwing.

I might be better if I didnt have a lead hand, and only knew one speeed
__________________
I married better than my wife did!!
Bait O' Eggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #16
Tinman
King Salmon
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland & Oceanside, Oregon
Posts: 6,521
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

As others have said, 4 or 5 mpg sounds too optimistic for a boat in real-life conditions. Published mpg ratings usually are based on the best possible conditions, to wit; 1) flat water, 2) no wind, 3) lightly loaded boat. When I say lightly loaded, I mean the fuel tanks are mostly empty, there are only 2 people aboard, the boat has no fishing gear, no kicker, etc.

Under real-life conditions, expect to get 60% of the published ratings. Why is that? Here are some reasons.

a) The boat will be much heavier with fuel, ice, mountains of gear, people, kicker, etc

b) You will often be bucking wind and surface drift. When the wind blows, it actually makes the top few inches of water move downwind in a surface drift current. So you will be fighting an actual current.

c) You will be throwing spray as you slam into waves and chop. It takes energy to throw spray, and that energy comes from the fuel you burn

d) You will be going uphill much of the time, especially down-swell. On the way home you will be running with the swell and your boat speed will be the same order of magnitude as your boat speed. Most likely, you will be slowly overtaking the swells. That means you will slowly climb up the back of a swell, often traveling hundreds of yards on the same swell. During this time your boat is actually going uphill. Then you will finally crest the swell, and slide down the other side. But it will be a quick slide as you speed up, and again start climbing the next swell. The net result is you spend more time going uphill than downhill.

d) Often you won't be able to hold the wheel steady. Either the chop will throw your bow around, forcing you into zillions of small, continuous course corrections, or you will have to make many course changes to properly meet a big wave. Either way, you're not going in a straight line, and your total distance travelled increases.

That's why real-life mpg is so much worse than published mpg. Also beware of the 15% difference between statute miles and nautical miles. My dory gets 2.8 nautical miles per gallon. That equates to 3.2 statute miles per gallon. The 3.2 sure sounds better, but the marine world works on nautical miles, not statute. Is the 5 mpg rating statute miles or nautical miles?

Also beware of underpowering a boat. A 225 on a 28 foot boat sounds light. You need enough power to climb up swells.

All that said, a lightweight planing hull makes a fine ocean boat. My dory is like that. But the downside is, as Eric said, you have to go slow.

EDIT: I happen to think that lightweight, slower wooden boats are a fabulous option on the ocean, as evidenced by my choice of a dory for my own boat. Wood rocks.
__________________
Ifish Member #223
22 foot Learned dory "Evenstar"
14 foot rowing wherry "Evensong"

Last edited by Tinman; 05-01-2012 at 01:53 PM.
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 10:46 AM   #17
cougman
Chromer
 
cougman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Woodland, WA
Posts: 999
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

I wish that someone would finish a GA so we could truly know what the stats are on this boat. I think this would be a great project and would make a fantastic boat. But when it comes to a long ride home from the tuna grounds I would rather have your Grady, it will only take one trip to understand this.
__________________
"One Moor"
22' Seasport
cougman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 02:35 PM   #18
gpt
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: sequim, wa
Posts: 2,785
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

glass boat????

hands down, Regulator Marine, THE finest riding glass boat i have ever run through the chop. pick most anything built in NC and you will have a REAL offshore fishing machine.
gpt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 04:03 PM   #19
tunafisher
Steelhead
 
tunafisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 102
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Your Grady should burn around 100 gallons for a day of tuna fishing. If you have 4 guys to split the bill that's not a bad deal when you know you have a fast, seaworthy, chop crushing ride that can hold a good load of fish.
tunafisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 04:03 PM   #20
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

ADDED COMMENT
Running heavy as for Tuna the millage would drop, I'm sure the mpg speck is calculated like any other rig car or boat running at its best not loaded. Something I should have added was a comment about expecting the mileage to drop on tuna runs (my oversight) As well as the mileage my Grady is currently getting 1.25 is pretty much at its best also and will drop (hope it does not drop to 3/4 mpg) . I have only had the boat barely one year and haven run it real heavy yet other than holding of a lot of fuel. We have only done short runs sturgeon & salmon fishing in and out of the CR bar and you don't need much gear for that (sometimes you need guts for that bar that's when I sturgeon fish). I would say 3 mpg running a GA heavy is pretty close. Beats the heck out of 3/4 mpg but that is yet to be determined on both boats.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #21
gpt
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: sequim, wa
Posts: 2,785
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

any new build should be selected not only for ride capability but also for wood free construction. the composites that are now being used by state of the art builders should be a guiding principle when selecting any new glass boat.
gpt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #22
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Or...

You could consider that wood is the most cost effective material for one-off construction, or that wood vessels can regularly last 50 years or more.

To each their own.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #23
elkhunter338
Chromer
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 573
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Why not build a 28' great alaskan and put a cummins 300hp 6B in her, straight inboard. I suspect a diesel would get great fuel mileage and 300hp with the right prop should push you along good.

Run the Grady for tuna and you mentioned using your tolman sometimes for bottom fish and salmon. At 21' your tolman should be fine for the nice days.

Have you trolled for salmon with your Grady yet? does it troll too fast?
elkhunter338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 06:28 PM   #24
colbachlaw
Tuna!
 
colbachlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NW Portland
Posts: 1,320
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Grady,

Have you looked at cold molded custom Carolina boats?

There are a lot of guys on the east coast making boats in your size range that are gorgeous, easy on fuel, and great sea boats.

The Calyber is just one example:

http://www.calyberboatworks.com/gallery_D.htm

If I had the skills, I would build a custom Carolina CC or express.

Mike C
__________________
Tuna Skipper since 06'
Marlin Skipper since 08'
48' Viking "Shake N Bake"- Ilwaco slip E3
08', 09', 10', 11', 12', 13', 14' OTC sponsor
50 Ton Masters license holder.
colbachlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:06 PM   #25
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter338 View Post
Why not build a 28' great alaskan and put a cummins 300hp 6B in her, straight inboard. I suspect a diesel would get great fuel mileage and 300hp with the right prop should push you along good.

Run the Grady for tuna and you mentioned using your tolman sometimes for bottom fish and salmon. At 21' your tolman should be fine for the nice days.

Have you trolled for salmon with your Grady yet? does it troll too fast?
Sure have both in the CR and out in the salt we ran one engine seamed to work just fine. Sometimes we through out a wind sock. We used the auto pilot out in the ocean and the river it sure beat driving it. Sometimes in the river if it,was real crowded I had to do drive the boat half the time. We seamed to be right in the middle of the pack as far as speed went.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:18 PM   #26
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by colbachlaw View Post
Grady,

Have you looked at cold molded custom Carolina boats?

There are a lot of guys on the east coast making boats in your size range that are gorgeous, easy on fuel, and great sea boats.

The Calyber is just one example:

http://www.calyberboatworks.com/gallery_D.htm

If I had the skills, I would build a custom Carolina CC or express.

Mike C
Looks like a nice design and very seaworthy. Don't know much about cold molding but if I heard correctly its not something to build for one boat. Building the plug for the cold molding is as more work than building a hull then once the plug is built you are at the starting point of your cold mold hull. But I could be all wrong.
I'm a wood boat guy been working with wood all my life, I wish I did not even have to glass the boat I would build more,if no glass was involved but that's where the strength on longevity come from.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo


Last edited by Grady 300; 05-01-2012 at 07:20 PM.
Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #27
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Envi Boats does some exceptionally nice Carolina stuff, but in the context of this discussion, they have nada in the lineup that's going to be any better than the Grady on fuel.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 06:12 AM   #28
gpt
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: sequim, wa
Posts: 2,785
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

http://www.regulatormarine.com/

i was on business back on the east coast in 2005 and in the market for a new ride for the big blue. i took a week of my own time to kick around NC visiting some legendary boat works. i was able to talk with the builders, see the construction, and get blue water rides in almost all that were of interest to me. Regulator was the boat with a ride that you have to experience to believe. no wood, no rot, runs like a dream with wonderful economy, at least for outboards. these guys fish out in the gulf stream, much like running for tuna. 100 mile days are pretty normal and often times they will overnight in the bahamas having run that far in search of fish. the PNW boat builders would do well by schooling themselves on the lessons these long time boat builders have learned. they are unto themselves real blue water builders.

if i had not found old ALMAR and found this crew of folks to be so accomodating and will to try things others have proven, i would be fishing out of a regulator right now. astonishing boats is all i can say. if you ever get back to NC, make sure you plan a visit to these manufacturijng facilities.
gpt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 07:47 AM   #29
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Still kinda think he wants to build it himself though...

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 09:53 AM   #30
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
Still kinda think he wants to build it himself though...

E
E- Spoken from a true wood boat builder to another your right on. No mater how well another boat performs in the salt being in a boat you build yourself is very rewarding and if done correctly wood is hard to beat. Your also right in the fact that the Carolina that I saw in the internet was being driven by two 200hp out boards and that kinda defeats my goal. i can't imagine it would be anymore seaworthy than a Marlin 300 Grady White the ride in big chop is very nice
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 10:02 AM   #31
Tinman
King Salmon
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland & Oceanside, Oregon
Posts: 6,521
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

I read a great novel called Mink River, and there is a line something like....."old trees have seen a lot, they are very smart, and it sounds funny but the smart stays in the wood when you build something of it"

That partially captures the magic of wooden boats. They have a feel, a presence that glass and aluminum lack. A wooden boat is like a people magnet, they want to see it, touch it, ask questions about it. There is just something about a wooden boat that touches the human soul.
__________________
Ifish Member #223
22 foot Learned dory "Evenstar"
14 foot rowing wherry "Evensong"
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 10:04 AM   #32
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Don't get me wrong, I really want to build one of these:





But I can't afford to run a pair or a trio of 250hp outboards off of it. The guys at Envi that designed it (and all the other boats) are pretty spot on with their waters, and these boats would be BEASTS out here for our waters. Everything from 16 to 40 feet and all cold molded just like the big manufacturers do (Paul Mann, etc). Just not good on fuel...

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #33
Moosemeat
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 301
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Take a look at the Bateau.com boats- there is a 25 foot panga with a jump cabin that would be incredibly economical and very seaworthy. I welcome this discussion about boats that are not so expensive to run. A 115 would push that panga just fine and would achieve great fuel economy- I would expect 5 MPG or above. This boat would also be relatively easy and quite economical to build.

No real comment on the "no wood in the boat" comments except that there are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of fifty to seventy-five year old wooden salmon trollers and other commercial and pleasure craft still plying the waters of the Northwest. I wonder how many vessels of other materials will be able to match that level of longevity? I know that fiberglas fatigues and cracks rather rapidly. It is a lot tougher to replace a hunk of fiberglas boat than it is to replace a couple of planks.
Moosemeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 01:12 PM   #34
Tinman
King Salmon
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland & Oceanside, Oregon
Posts: 6,521
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

When he said "wood-free" construction, I think gpt meant avoiding wood as structural members in fiberglass boats. That sort of construction has indeed proved vulnerable to rot since the wood is encapulated and unable to dry out.

An boat made completely out of wood is another matter entirely. Many, if not most, of the wooden dories in the Pacific City fleet are 30 to 40 years old, and still going strong. They've probably had some pieces replaced, maybe bottoms replaced, but such repairs are well within the abilities of the average guy.
__________________
Ifish Member #223
22 foot Learned dory "Evenstar"
14 foot rowing wherry "Evensong"
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 02:38 PM   #35
gpt
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: sequim, wa
Posts: 2,785
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
When he said "wood-free" construction, I think gpt meant avoiding wood as structural members in fiberglass boats. That sort of construction has indeed proved vulnerable to rot since the wood is encapulated and unable to dry out.
thanks, that is more precisely what i meant to say. having built about a dozen wooden boats, i never had a single issue with any of them.
gpt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #36
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
Don't get me wrong, I really want to build one of these:


But I can't afford to run a pair or a trio of 250hp outboards off of it. The with their waters, and these boats would be BEASTS out here for our waters. Everything from 16 to 40 feet and all cold molded just like the big manufacturers do (Paul Mann, etc). Just not good on fuel...

E
I would like to add I love glass boats heck I have one and feel very safe in it. I also don't like the fuel bill but pay it when it is thirsty. Its just that if I wanted another glass boat I would buy it, just have no desire to build one doesn't look like much fun although you could be very proud of it. I actually enjoy MOST of wood boat building it gives me something to do when I get board.
Hey Eric, you got plans for one of those boats that work with wood? sure is cool looking
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo


Last edited by Grady 300; 05-02-2012 at 03:27 PM.
Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 03:46 PM   #37
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Name of the company is Envi boats. Google knows how to find them, there's a ton of boats there. They do CNC cut kits for their jig, then you sheet it either strip or cold molded.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #38
colbachlaw
Tuna!
 
colbachlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NW Portland
Posts: 1,320
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Grady,

I don't know if it is hype or not, but they claim Carolina boats are pretty good on fuel. They have pretty flat transoms, but the sharp entry is supposed to do real well in the big stuff.

I was all hot to buy a 47' Buddy Davis until I saw the V berth. The extreme bow flair comes at a price, interior space. Bow flair is great for keeping the spray down (ride in Wayne's Yellowfin or my 35' Bertram) but lousy for interior space.

It would be very, very cool if somebody local built a Carolina boat.

Mike C
__________________
Tuna Skipper since 06'
Marlin Skipper since 08'
48' Viking "Shake N Bake"- Ilwaco slip E3
08', 09', 10', 11', 12', 13', 14' OTC sponsor
50 Ton Masters license holder.
colbachlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:21 PM   #39
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Mike, you finance it, I'll build it...

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:58 PM   #40
colbachlaw
Tuna!
 
colbachlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NW Portland
Posts: 1,320
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Eric,

When I start picking better powerball numbers, I will look you up.

My dream tuna boat is a Carolina 38' flybridge express (I don't know why only Ocean makes open flybridge boats) with a single diesel. Big, fast, and not horrible on fuel. I have seen a couple of these used as out banks charters and I really want one.

Mike C
__________________
Tuna Skipper since 06'
Marlin Skipper since 08'
48' Viking "Shake N Bake"- Ilwaco slip E3
08', 09', 10', 11', 12', 13', 14' OTC sponsor
50 Ton Masters license holder.
colbachlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 09:33 PM   #41
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Name your day, I will talk to Marc at Envi and he will draw me up whatever size you want. They just did a 36, but there can be a 38, whenever you want it.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 06:18 AM   #42
O Tshawytcha
Ifish Nate
 
O Tshawytcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Camas WA
Posts: 2,987
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

when you consider power don't forget to look at a D series Volvo diesel with an outdrive. Very economical fuel wise, though the upfront an maintenance costs could wash out the fuel savings.

Good luck, and be sure to post a build thread!
__________________
Galley Slave and Baitboy for HMS Magpie!
O Tshawytcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 07:22 AM   #43
Puffin
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,151
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Hey Nalu. No offense but we go by an old addage. There are old sailors and there are bold sailors but there are no old bold sailors. Put her in low gear and head for home. The thing about people is we all have different styles. Some guys ask for a date some hit her on the head and drag her in the bushes. I personaly do not like the "as conditions detiorate I accelerate" type of skipper so I own my own boat and operate accordingly.
__________________
The original Salty dog
If you fish the prediction you will never fish.
You can't cook it if you don't hook it.
If the coast guard says GO FISH we do.

Last edited by Puffin; 05-03-2012 at 07:50 AM.
Puffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:07 AM   #44
Tar Heel
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,775
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Wasn't the point that he could trim her and cut the waves w/o sacrificing ssafety or a pounding ride? My first trip out on a messy day I was surprised at how you could trim the bow down a little bit and quarter the SW slop for a smooth ride back East to port. That said, I started out following Wayne's biigger/faster boat and eventually watched him dissapear into the horizon, also presumably safely. Relativity.
__________________
Cast n Blast
Tar Heel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #45
no excuses
Chromer
 
no excuses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 669
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

check out GLen L designs, they have several that might fit what you are looking for.


https://www.boatdesigns.com/default.asp
__________________
2001 contender 27 open,
no excuses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 04:41 PM   #46
Grady 300
 
Grady 300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by no excuses View Post
check out GLen L designs, they have several that might fit what you are looking for.


https://www.boatdesigns.com/default.asp
I have that site bookmarked I looked at a lot of thier designs when I was looking for a boat to build then Someone on this site sudgested a Tolman sure glad they did. I'm enjoying that build very close to flipping it and stating the inside.
__________________
West Coast Tolman Skiff Kits

Build Your Own Tolman Skiff
Or The Great Alaskan
With a Kit From WCBW

Below is a 24’ Jumbo

Grady 300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 06:15 PM   #47
Nalu
 
Nalu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beverly Beach, OR
Posts: 6,070
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin View Post
Hey Nalu. No offense but we go by an old addage. There are old sailors and there are bold sailors but there are no old bold sailors. Put her in low gear and head for home. The thing about people is we all have different styles. Some guys ask for a date some hit her on the head and drag her in the bushes. I personaly do not like the "as conditions detiorate I accelerate" type of skipper so I own my own boat and operate accordingly.

I love posts like this..... "No offense, but now I'm going to put forth an anecdote intended to insult your method of operation" LOL Too funny.

I'll retort simply by saying that safety and comfort of my paying passengers is of paramount importance, and that is one of the specific reasons that I have the boat that I do. On the particular day I noted, I had return customers that continue to book with me every year, not just because I catch fish, but because the know how I operate. In this instance we cut the day short and headed for home several hours early because I told them it was going to get nasty. I value my customers and want them to be comfortable, so for that reason alone I do my very best to eliminate an uncomfortable ride. My ride in on that day was in no way uncomfortable, not to mention, even remotely "bold" or unsafe. Most often people depart from my trips saying that they have never been on a boat that rides as nice as mine. Their words, again, and again, and again.

Back to the topic at hand..differences in boats. It is most unfortunate that some would assume all boats are created equal, and if someone goes faster in rough weather it must be because they have a heavy hand and just want to "go for it". The truth of the matter is that actual boat design has something to do with how fast a boat can operate safely and comfortably in given conditions. Therein lies many tradeoffs.

Grady White, for example, utilizes C Raymond Hunt Designs Naval Architects to design their hulls for specific criteria of seaworthiness, speed and comfort. Ray Hunt is the originator of the deep vee hull and the designer of the legendary Bertram 31, the pioneer of rough water, offshore speed hulls. Other North Carolina manufacturers such as Regulator and Carolina Classic build similar deep vee, sharp entry, and flared bow vessels designed for running to the gulf stream many miles offshore with speed and at the same time, comfort and seakeeping. Grinding out a 100 mile run is not in the cards, and neither is getting the tar beat out of you. For me, I simply would not operate a NW design boat for tuna for customers as my body would not handle the punishment 3 or 4 or 5 days tuna fishing in a row. Others do, and that is great for them, but I simply cannot handle the ride. I have a 12 hour window, which means comfortable speed is important.

The steep entry angle, and deeper vee allow the bow to be pushed down cutting through the waves while throwing water to the side. They'll be a wet ride due to spray sometimes, but the flare keeps the bow up when pushing through and recovering from hitting a tall wave. This deep entry allows for greater speed while maintaining the ride.

Another thing that is a tradeoff is helm position and seating. Where most NW boats have a forward helm, Grady and other place the helm amidship. By having the helm 4-5 feet further back than most NW designed boats, the amount of pounding is significantly reduced since the captain is not up front where all the pitching is. In my boat, everyone save myself and perhaps one other person is actual sitting either in the rear third of the vessel, or on the transom seat just forward of the motors. On the identical boat, sitting 5 or 6 feet from the bow, or sitting at the stern the ride is not even comparable. If you look at every center console offshore fishing boat you will notice the helm is typically back from midship, as is the main seating for crew. No coincidence, it is because that's where the best ride is. From a safety standpoint, the helm of a Grady is raised at least 3 feet higher than the helm on most NW boats. This raised helm area also gives greater vision all around.

By properly trimming and operating a vessel truly designed for rough water seakeeping, reasonable speeds can be attained without sacrificing safety or comfort.

The tradeoffs are pretty apparent. Fuel economy is not as good since a deep vee has to have higher power to maintain speeds. I have twin 225's on mine and average between 1.25 and 1.5 nmpg. I expect to burn between 65-90 gallons on a tuna trip. In addition, the cockpit of my boat is nowhere near as large as the cockpit of a NW designed boat, some aluminum boats of similar length might have 30% larger cockpits. The seating is more open to the elements, and you do not have the ability to shut a door and completely get out of the elements. Of course 3 people can fish off the bow of my boat, so that's a plus....of course even more can fish off a center console.

That is why up front I said that this is apples and oranges. NW designed boats are fabulous and there is no knock on them, or on a wood boat, or any other boat that is purpose built. A dory is a great boat and has been proven, can slay many tuna, with cost efficiency and at the same time being a safe dependable craft. Just because it takes someone twice as long to get home is not in any way a negative on the craft, it simply "is what it is".

My boat goes faster than many others in rough water while maintaining a comfortable and safe ride. Other boats, can go faster yet, while still maintaining a comfortable, safe ride. Some here would do well to understand that just because their vessel of choice operates a certain way they would be wiser not to assume that others operate the same. No offense, but you know what they say about assumptions.
__________________
The Sea-J in Depoe Bay- Small group charter fishing for the true fisherman.

nalucharters.com - Shimano/G.Loomis Pro Staff
Grady White 282- 4 Person Executive Charters

Anybody can catch a tuna in '07

By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea. They, as He, are mightier than me. - M.J.

Last edited by Nalu; 05-03-2012 at 08:19 PM.
Nalu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:03 PM   #48
Moosemeat
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 301
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Great post, Nalu. A terrific explanation of why you have chosen the boat you have. As a charter operator, you have some very good reasons for your choices. One really valid point is the fact that you have to do it day in and day out- you have to be able to scoot, and do so in comfort, or you won't be in bidness. As for me, I need an economical boat or I just can't go. No way I can afford 100 gallons a day. We all have to recognize that our individual situations will dictate what we operate. As long as we stay safe it's all good.
Moosemeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 08:49 AM   #49
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

I think a point left out of this discussion is that all boats are a series of compromises, and each of us chooses which points we will concede to get other features we prefer. For example:

Fuel economy requires shallow deadrise, the CG (center of gravity) and CB (center of buoyancy) further forward, and lighter weight.

Smooth ride in choppy seas at speed require deep (25° or more) deadrise at the transom, deeper at the stem (often 50° or more), and the CG well aft. Wayne's boat is a prime example.

Each boat has a set of parameters to which it is best suited. Nalu's boat would not be happy running at slower speeds in a 3 foot chop because the designer specifically designed her to move fast in big chop. His safest operating speed is planing, period.

I've ridden in a 55' Paul Mann and can tell you she wallows worse than Tailgunner when trolling, yet we blasted through a 6 foot wind wave in 40 kt winds in the Gulf of Mexico like it was a pond. That's what they are suited for.

To say someone is safe or not safe must take into account what the hull is drawn to do.

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 09:35 AM   #50
Nalu
 
Nalu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beverly Beach, OR
Posts: 6,070
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

You're absolutely right Eric.

A year or two into owning my first Grady I was talking to a long time Grady owner and telling him that I was disappointed in the ride of my boat, and that I thought it should be better in rough water, especially when returning from halibut fishing. With all seriousness he told me I probably wasn't going fast enough. I was trying to grind out a decent ride at 12-14 knots and was in a no mans land on and off throttles trying to stay on plane, and at the same time getting tossed back and forth. His words of wisdom "Speed up".

Next trip out and back I headed his advice and pushed the throttles forward to a speed that I thought was "too fast". Lo and behold the boat settled into a groove, the ride smoothed out, the fuel consumption dropped, and I got home significantly quicker than I had before. Now the challenge on rough water days is to find the optimum planing speed to get into the groove. Non planing speed is a very poor choice.

The "go faster for a better ride" is totally counter intuitive, but it works if the boat is designed for it. As noted, the compromise is fuel efficiency, and even deck space.
__________________
The Sea-J in Depoe Bay- Small group charter fishing for the true fisherman.

nalucharters.com - Shimano/G.Loomis Pro Staff
Grady White 282- 4 Person Executive Charters

Anybody can catch a tuna in '07

By the grace of God we travel upon the rivers and sea. They, as He, are mightier than me. - M.J.

Last edited by Nalu; 05-04-2012 at 09:39 AM.
Nalu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #51
Eric S
Ifish Nate
 
Eric S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 2,529
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

And I'd love to fish with ya, there's a certain luxury to the run with all that deadrise, but man your fuel bills aren't much fun...

Ahh, who am I kidding, I don't even have a boat right now, I'd be happy in ANY boat!

E
Eric S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 04:36 PM   #52
tomictime
Sturgeon
 
tomictime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,340
Default Re: Thinking Of My Next Build For Off Shore to Replace the Grady

Just got back from there, frnd has a 34' Jarrett Bay Cold Molded has pros and cons like any choice you make.

My very LIGHT Yellowfin 24 never sees 5 MPG with a 250 Yami..the 5 MPG claim is inflated..wildly...Baxters big ride has the best NMPG numbers and the Styer will set you back up front but over long haul is a wise choice.

I was able to coax high 2 mpg numnbers out of the Almar combat loaded.

Run the Grady fishing tuna for a season and every trip write down what worked well and what did not, also keep a design notebook of features younvalue. WRITE them down as they emerge or as you encounter problems.

Finally, some hulls to a point really do run better the harder ya push em, previous to owning the stepped YF i would not have held this belief, even after significant hours running a Moppie..but the YF hull is that boat..so far, so perhaps..justvperhaps nAlu,s comment taken somewhat out lf context..

BTW Oregon Inlet was FUN....


Quote:
Originally Posted by colbachlaw View Post
Eric,

When I start picking better powerball numbers, I will look you up.

My dream tuna boat is a Carolina 38' flybridge express (I don't know why only Ocean makes open flybridge boats) with a single diesel. Big, fast, and not horrible on fuel. I have seen a couple of these used as out banks charters and I really want one.

Mike C
__________________
TEAM 50 WIDE- We don't reel fish in more than once.
tomictime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Cast to



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:02 PM.

Terms of Service
Page generated in 0.74455 seconds with 72 queries