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Old 03-02-2012, 04:44 PM   #1
Mooch
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Default Correct knot for big circle hooks

Big as in 16/0 for halibut.

I've seen packaged halibut leaders where the hook is attached with mono and a crimp where the hook swings free.

I've seen them tied with a bumper knot where the hook is tight to the leader.

Does a circle work better one way or the other?

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Old 03-02-2012, 06:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

I am told it does matter and it should swing and rotate freely. I believe this to be true. I spread the eye of the hook and put a barrel swivel on it. I close the eye and am good to go. No issues hooking up and staying that way.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

I like to use heavy leader to prevent twisting on the way down to the bottom, and with heavy line I like to use crimps. So, this isn't a knot, but here is how I like to rig big circle hooks for Halis:
  • Run the line in from the bottom of the hook
  • Under the shank and then back through the top of the hook
  • This positions the gap of the circle hook just right to catch the jaw bone when you start to apply pressure
  • It looks like this:
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Rotten View Post
I like to use heavy leader to prevent twisting on the way down to the bottom, and with heavy line I like to use crimps. So, this isn't a knot, but here is how I like to rig big circle hooks for Halis:
  • Run the line in from the bottom of the hook
  • Under the shank and then back through the top of the hook
  • This positions the gap of the circle hook just right to catch the jaw bone when you start to apply pressure
  • It looks like this:
Come to the SSS and to Steve's presentation. He works for the IPHC and did research on hooks and their effectiveness. 2R has it right. That's pretty much the way most of us do it. the one thing I do differently is make a loop in the end of the leader, about 3 to 4 in long and then pass it thru the eye of the hook, over the tip, and then pull it tight. I do that so the sleever isn't right at the hook, otherwise it looks the same.
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Would something like this be acceptable?

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Old 03-03-2012, 04:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch View Post
Would something like this be acceptable?

What # test is that?

I've been using #170 vinyl coated steel leader (No excuse rig in the tips section) for my halibut rigs, but this year I'll use what I learned about last year at the SSS Show with at lease 200# mono
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Thats 150#
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch View Post
Would something like this be acceptable?
Yes
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch View Post
Would something like this be acceptable?

Thats how I did them before going to 200# and crimps similar to 2rotten's pic

I hand tied like your pic with 150# mono...never had a problem hooking up or knot failure once it gets all cinced down, I did 5x5 wraps.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Mooch - I have gone away from using a swivel at the hook, and have also been using Steve Kaimmer's (trollking) method that Ron mentions. I sure think it is the way to go with a circle hook.

If you don't have access to a crimper, a knot will work just fine but keep in mind the effectiveness is from the placement of the line coming through the eye from the hook side. Your picture is spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron m View Post
Come to the SSS and to Steve's presentation. He works for the IPHC and did research on hooks and their effectiveness. 2R has it right. That's pretty much the way most of us do it. the one thing I do differently is make a loop in the end of the leader, about 3 to 4 in long and then pass it thru the eye of the hook, over the tip, and then pull it tight. I do that so the sleever isn't right at the hook, otherwise it looks the same.
ron m
Here is a picture of the loop.



Not only is it effective in hooking a halibut in the corner of the mouth, it also makes it easy to remove the hook from your rig and slide on a skirt or squid.

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

I pass a tied gangion around at my talk, but to demonstrate hook size, not the gangion itself, but it's a good leader. Big mono is good too. As far as we can tell the leader material doesn't really matter - but it does help to have a stiff leader that comes in through the front of the hook. Coming in from the front gives an advantage in hooking success over coming in from the back, and a swivel would defeat any orientation advantage. Commercial fishermen use a heavy 72 thread round lay stiff nylon cord for the leader, and there is a tricky knot that I have tied thousands of times and I can't for the life of me do it the quick way anymore, but I'll try to find out before the show.
To tie it right, youi have a nail sticking up, you break the cord around the nail and bring the end back to the standing part, grab both lines between thump and forefinger, roll the thumb under towards you putting a loop in both lines, and then you use the other forefinger to push the small bit left after the loop into the loops to line up with the two lines coming from around the nail. You pull this tight against the nail and you have a very good tie. While it is very strong, if you need to you can break it apart by grabbing each side of the loop and pulling out against the knot. The knot will break apart. I have to get a board and some gangions to referesh my knowledge of this knot.
On this 'gangion' material, we tie a loop knot with the loop about 4", you bite the end to get it through the eye (from the front) and it's long enough to go over the bend of the hook. That way it is easy to change out a hook.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

loop is up. Kind of an overhand knot/bowline combo. Easy once you've done a few
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Yeah, that's the knot. I can tie it easy by putting a knot in the line and then feeding the bitter end back though and around the standing part, and back through again, and then pulling tight as I arrange how the knot will end up, but there is a very quick easier way to tie this. Lilwhaler, if you know it, see me at the show and remind me. It's been 30 years since I had to tie these day and night and I think I've repressed the memory!
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilwhaler View Post
Easy once you've done a few
Not so easy to remember how to tie them after over 20 years.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Try a Perfection Loop. You can tie it without the hook OR have the hook swinging in the loop.

If you are using a crimping system, I suggest to use chafing springs. You can purchase the gear at HOGG"S!!!!!

Tight lines, Joel
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

My brother has fished out of Kodiak and long lined Halibut since about 1965. I can't remember the exact smart a** reply my brother gave me when I asked him this same question when visiting him for the first time. It went something like, "yes they will only take the bait if you have a Buntline Hitch with the hook at 30 degrees". Each to their own but a simple Bowline works just fine. You just have to believe that whatever you use is the best!
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

Hellibut, it is a circle hook specific question and does not have to do with them biting. It has to do with them hooking up. If the hook cant rock to the corner of the mouth, it won't stick.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Correct knot for big circle hooks

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Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
Hellibut, it is a circle hook specific question and does not have to do with them biting. It has to do with them hooking up. If the hook cant rock to the corner of the mouth, it won't stick.
Sorry if you missed the humor JerryM and Thank you. I'm quite aware of the question and that is why I went with the advice from a professional. It's sort of important when long lining that the fish, "Hook Up". The bare hooks don't provide much in the way of income. Having used this method myself and catching more Halibut than I can count including several over 100#'s and my prize 214#er, I can tell you that it works. As I said before, each to there own.
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