open

Dan Christopher · 01-05-2003, 06:17 PM

[ 02-21-2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: MADWIZERD ]

Hogmaster · 01-05-2003, 06:22 PM

Wiz -

Come for a ride in my 22' 200 HP Predator and tell me what you would change.

I kid you not (and this is my 5th boat) there is NOTHING I would change on this boat.

I really believe in spite of all banter to the contrary, any of them can serve you equally as well. The difference will simply be how you outfit it.

Good luck!

rebell · 01-05-2003, 06:23 PM

My only suggestion would be to go the 200hp on that big of a boat. Other than that, your on the right track.

Im running a 200hp on a 18ft boat. When it comes to a pump boat, there is no such thing as to much horse power.

Mojo · 01-05-2003, 06:29 PM

Wiz,
I have an older Alumaweld V-Sled. I love it. I run a 200hp tiller jet. It has full length rod lockers on both sides that double as a seat if you want. It has 4 lockable storage boxes, with seats on each of them. I have a separate free standing storage box with a captains chair on it. It has weight trays built in in the back with drawers underneath. I have a warm-water sink, heated by the hot water discharge from the kicker. Go with a 10 hp 4 stroke. I got a 8 hp 2 stroke kicker and sometimes wish for more. I have a 39 gallon tank and it is plumbed to both motors, but I run the same mix on both so it's no big deal. My boat has ample under deck storage in the bow. I have a 5 gallon propane bottle there that's plumbed back to 2 quick disconnect fittings that I can plug my Mister Heaters into. That is nice on those cold Idaho mornings. If you want more info, I can e-mail pictures.

TheRogue · 01-05-2003, 06:30 PM

You can now go 225 or 250. If you haven't been, hit the show. I believe the beast of a NR open boat there has a 225 on it.

Don't have the seats screwed to the floor. It's much more versatile to have the slider brackets. Again, if you get to the show, check out the slider set up on the Rogue Marine (I think it was them, might have been the River Wild). It looked pretty sweet.

Storage, Storage, Storage. Many people with open boats use the fish box for storage, and have the standard white cooler sitting up front.

TR

[ 01-05-2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

blacktail · 01-05-2003, 06:34 PM

Mad,

Have you checked out Smokin'reel's Predator for sale in the classifieds. Sounds like what you are looking for.

Mike

Perfect Drift · 01-05-2003, 06:42 PM

Unlike your family car or tow rig, you want the biggest motor legally allowed on the boat. Safety and when you need it, it's there. Big rain storm coming, high water, injury, Oh and late for that important date.

Hogmaster · 01-05-2003, 06:49 PM

Mojo, Wiz,

Mine doesn't have the rod lockers so I guess that is one thing to consider. But it does have a 6" wide diamondplate gunnel and the rod racks are easily accessible underneath and it has a nice wide covered shelf below the rod racks for people's extra's like lead when back bouncing and changing them.

Mine has seat boxes, but I like them even though they are static. They are about twice the volume of the ones on my old Sea Dory and keep things dry and out of the way. On a boat this big there is a forward locker in front of the fish box. It holds my (fold down) rocker anchor and a couple of tidewater anchors too, as well as as much rope as I care to carry.

Never had to even begin to consider using the fish box for anything but fish, and I have taken 5 several times now.

On the lower shelf there are welded (Willie orginal) cup holders in front of each seat - makes if nice.

Recycle your hot water from the kicker, and like Mojo says, you can plumb both tanks from the main if you get a 4 stroke, 10 horse ( no lower) kicker.

I agree on the HP, too. Lots more dough, but you'll be glad you did.

Here are a couple things you probably have considered, but if not, do:

Get zincs wellded on the back and the big motor.
Get two batteries and a switch box.
Get a wash down system and a storrage locker in the back that will hold it, your electronics, batteries, water separator, etc. And it will then make for a back shelf which I find really hady too, while out fishing. Mine even has a built in plug cutter there.
Get a 12V outlet. OK, this is one other thing I wish I had because it would come in handy for stuff like my hand held GPS. Think of all the stuff on the dash of the Taxi and now try to envision where it will go on an open boat. My depth chart is on that same shelf I mentioned, in the back, behind where rods mount but where I can still easily see it.
Get a tandem axel trailer with brakes. I was surprised to find the Willie, fully loaded, pushed 4500lbs!
Get a top! I had mine on for the first time yesterday. Just used the bimini portion, but it sure makes a difference, especially if you are going to anchor anyway. By using just the bimini you can leave it down in transport but put it up in moments should you want to. You friends will like you a lot better...
I have a 2" rubberized strip on the inside rail which is really nice too. The rod holders are then on slide mounts and can be moved up or back as desired. This is really nice!

[ 01-05-2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

Firedog · 01-05-2003, 07:08 PM

Dan Christopher · 01-05-2003, 07:54 PM

[ 02-21-2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: MADWIZERD ]

Jettin' Fool · 01-05-2003, 08:00 PM

There is a sweeeeeet 23' NorthRiver Scout you should check out. Its in the show room on Hwy 224. It may be at the boat show at this time. If I was getting an open boat that would be my choice.

Fool

[ 01-05-2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Jett'in Fool ]

Hogmaster · 01-05-2003, 08:12 PM

Wiz -

Just gotta figure out the when. I am tied to the desk job until the weekend, and you know what next weekend is. I am with Mark and his Maxima dog then. But you are welcome to get aboard! Maybe a short trip is still possible this week if you can get over my way...

I am getting the speed/temp attachment to the X-85 that came with the boat, but don't have it yet so I can't say for sure on how fast. But I can tell you that the Sea Dory with a properly shimmed and sharperned impeller would top out at about 35 with only me on board. Judging by that the Willie is going well over 40, probably closer to 45 with two on and still over 40 with 5 aboard. It does get up slower though with a full load. Bottom line is it won't be as fast as the Taxi, but who cares? It will be fast enough.

Get this, I have the lower unit and prop for mine! May put it on next summer just to see. Hang on!!!

Anybody certified to work on Mercs will work on a Merc regardless of what it is hanging on. I have heard from a reliable source that the new Optimax's aren't as reliable as the old Back Max series though...

As far as reasons not to buy one of the boats you mentioned - Well, I can think of roughly 30,000 :grin:

HOGGEMIN · 01-05-2003, 08:15 PM

Check out the Motion Marine boats they will do a sportjet with a tiller handle. Mark is a avid fisherman and has lots of great accesories avalible, you can go up to a 240 sportjet with a tiller handle. I would go with a 60 gal fuel tank. The boat show will have all the manufactors there to answer all your questions, and you can look at them all to see what options are avalible. Good luck I love my Motion Marine and they are made in West Linn Or.

wiser · 01-05-2003, 08:17 PM

Go four stroke all the way... The bigger the better.. You will pay for it quick and keep paying yourself with fuel savings and good treatment of the environment.
I think all three would do you well. Having a smaller 19 1/2' Predator, I think Willie makes a good boat.
Sliding rail seats seem to make sense if # of people will change. sliding rod holders is nice. Wish I had the hot pot for hand washing, warming. Same with the washdown. I have a top but only used once in three years for rain, bimini top section is nice for hot August sun if you anchor fish in Columbia.
Whatever you get, it will be your favorite boat...
Four stroke, four stroke, four stroke... The only part of your purchase that will pay you back.

[ 01-05-2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Wiser? ]

Tilla · 01-05-2003, 09:03 PM

Here are some cool options probably not available on most of your production boats:
- Forward hatch large enough to stow your anchor (s) and float. Duh! No laundry basket here!
-Fish box in floor, one that can be flooded and drained with a plug. Leave the 2 (I have 3) hatches up front free for storage.
-An extra 18"x40" hatch in floor for trash, fish cleaning station, hose etc
-Big seat boxes. Most manufacturers have 16 or 18" square. I have 18"x24". The manufacturers will give you a seat box and then give you a standoff to keep swivel chairs from rubbing against the rail, this is cheap, and wasted space.
-Dual tackle trays, 10" wide at the widest. One on top and another about a foot below for storage. Absolutely the handiest option I have.
-84" wide bottom. Look at the clutter on most boats. How do they get around? How do they fight fish? We hold square dances! Plus with a Merc 200 , kicker and Minnkota electric on the transom you have room to operate.
- I agree with the same seats as Hogmaster. But they cost!
I did not purchase from those manufacturers listed.
Let me know if you want to see what you can't get from those guys.

Glen

First Light Bite · 01-05-2003, 10:18 PM

I have a 20 ft. Predator w/ 200 Yamaha and love it. My .02 on some of the other posts
1. Washdown pump---useless they don't last
2. Storage in floor--useless it will warp after it gets wet.
3. Back 2 seats need to be attached to the floor when would you ever have them out? front 2 removable is great.
4. diamond plate gunnell why would you want the glare? also can get slippery
5. Movable rod holders why? moount them in the correct position the first time.
6. Rod storage locker why? would you leave your rods in them any place but home
Things I would change:
Power trim on kicker is just too cool.
Things I didn't see in other posts:
Power outlet for minn kota
I you are going to order a new boat there are so many options that need to be right it really helps to take some of your buddies to help you remember. I helped a friend order a North River last spring and we probably looked at it 4 different times to make sure everything was in its place. And still there were some thing that had to be changed after he got it. You can't do too much homework if your going to lay out that kind of money. Lots to think about good luck and have fun.

fishhog1 · 01-06-2003, 05:08 AM

madwizard, I have 20' supervee with a 200 merc and the ss/ hot kit. I had this boat custom built with everything where and how I wanted it and it took 6 months for Stevens marine to build it for me. I love this boat but if I could change anything I would have the largest 4 stroke outboard jet that money could buy on it. So listen to wiser? he is right 4 stroke is the way to go it will cost you some extra cash out front but the pay off in fuel economy and the enviromental impact of a 4 stroke as apposed to a 2 stroke is a no brainer. You can get 3 times the range out of your new boat if you go 4 stroke

fishhog1 · 01-06-2003, 05:12 AM

[ 01-06-2003, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: fishhog1 ]

Biteme · 01-06-2003, 06:54 AM

I run the 24ft northriver scout, Mine has the 250 yamaha on it. With a pump all you really need is the 225 because the 250 has more power after the capacity of the pump is maxed out. I am running a prop now and love it except the 250 can be a little tough to get dialed in with the prop. I have my seats bolted down which allows storage outboard of the seats. I dont have rod lockers, I wished I did at first but now I like the open space and am glad i didnt go that way. my one beef is that I didnt have the instrument locker made big enough for all of the stuff I have stuffed in there. The Scout is a fish whoppin machine and mine has 1/4 inch bottom with 3/16 sides the floor is a full 84 inches and with the high sides it can easily handle most rough water conditions and is heavy enough that it rides smoooooooth. I have the fish box in the floor as well as up front. the one up front I use for storage. I dont like the ice chest up front because when standing at the back of the boat it limits visibility.

Team northriver pro guides

Flatfish · 01-06-2003, 07:12 AM

Madman,
talk to Jack Glass about the "Jack Plate" on the back of his boat. With one you can go from a pump to a prop with the same boat. You can also trim either setup when you are on plane too.
You can't have too much Hp for a jet. I know they are a lotta money, but maybe consider one of the 250hp engines. With a big boat like you are talking, it wont be too much.
Rod Lockers are your friend.
Look at the back storage in Eric Lindes old predator. Trick, and everything has a place.Bait, scent, files, electronics.Everything.
Tandem axle and galv.W/ brakes.
Nice seat for the Captn.
Big gas tank, in the floor.
Washdown pump.
Hot box.
Bigfoot Kicker-4 stroke is your option.would you need a 2nd fuel tank for it? Or does the big engine mix the oil in the gas for you???
Motion Marine style anchor holder for sturg fishn.
If you pull a lot of diver and bait, a paper towl holder for the leaders.
Bright Yellow Paint...Call it the Fish Taxi 2.

Have fun with it.

Mark and the dog.

[ 01-06-2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

01-06-2003, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by firedog:

The more important input would be the color? :tongue:

Best wishes Wiz.

Hogmaster · 01-06-2003, 08:56 AM

Wiz -

Mark hits on it, another option on mine that is way cool is a hydraulic lift that raises the motor vertically (separate from the tilt pump in the motor itself). Not only does this facilitate the installation of the prop (where the motor has to be much higher) but it also can be raised with the jet.

This is particularly handy for fishing the tops of runs that have riffly water. You and the boat can sit there and still fish the top of the hole rather than winding the kicker tight and/or not even being able to hold there from current or shallows. Also, it works really well to idle the big motor that way in tidewater instead of using the kicker, which hangs down further in the water. Can't go fast, but you don't want to in those situations anyway and the draw is much less than leaving the kicker down.

This may not have been explained well, but by raising the motor 3 or 4 "(above the bottom level of the boat) there is hardly any draw into the impeller so you can travel into shallows without sucking up gravel or rocks. Of course if you apply throttle it will immediately cavitate, but that isn't the purpose at that time...

As far as the diamond plate gunnels, mine are anodized paint and do not glare and the grip is good.

Never had a problem with my washdown system, but I haven't used it all that much, so I can't so whether they burn up easily. All I know is it is handy for slime removal in the field. Part of the reason I haven't had to though, is it has been often that the fish goes into the net then directly to the fish box without ever touching the floor. The box drains right out the bottom (even while out there is no need to plug it unless you want a live well).

Now, as far as the sliding rod holder mounts, they are really handy. The ones for the front seats aren't moved all that often, but the ones for the rear seats get moved a lot. When I am fishing one. two or three I can slide the rod holder closer to o me or away depending on who else is fishing and where. An 84" beam and 22' makes for a huge amount of room - I am constantly amazed how much larger it seems than the 18' dory was - and eliminating the extra steps help keep things closer to where they can be accessed.

I can't imagine needing more room in the sled for stuff by removing the front seats unless I was barging a dock or 50 gallon fuel drums.

Anyway, do consider the vertical lift system even if you don't get a prop. Trimming and running in shallows make it a valuable adder. (It of course ain't cheap either).

[ 01-06-2003, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

boater · 01-06-2003, 03:36 PM

i would check out a 225 honda with a power pump on it, also if you want to change from a prop to a jet have them build a removable insert in the transom, for a kicker i`d get the new 15 honda with the built in power tilt.

HOGTIDE · 01-06-2003, 07:26 PM

Wiz,
Whatever you decide, it's gonna be fun! everybody has lots of great ideas...more than I could even imagine. My only advice is make sure you take care of the very important basics. With a tiller jet, you'll want all the juice you can afford. Go with a 225 ,or better, for that big pig you're considering. And, of course, the pump needs to be the new high capacity shoe with a stainless impeller. If you stick all that cash and effort in a large river boat and you find out you are underpowered with a large load, you'll be kickin' yourself for a long time. After running that big v-8 in your NorthRiver these past few years, there is a good chance you'll be dissappointed with the performance of the outboard pump.

Also, go w-i-d-e-! If they offer the option of a wider bottom....take it, in whatever model you choose. Another 6' in width is worth a good 2' in performance when it comes to hole shots, shallow running and stability.

Personally, 23' is huge for a private craft...especially an open sled...unless you plan on logging lots of hours with a large crew. Guiding ?You may be just as pleased to get a bit smaller boat with max. width and max hp. I bet you would be pleased.Page Stevens can own any boat in the fleet, but his personal SuperVee is a 21'....might be something to it.

Finally...get some goggles and an umbrella :shocked: I ran open boats for 20 years...it's too cold out there for an older man!!!! Have Fun!!! I love boats.

Green Machine · 01-06-2003, 08:23 PM

How about a Bentley seat bolted to the floor with my name on the back of it? :grin: Be very cautious with the Jack Plate. I had one on my old boat, but it was manual. Big pain in the #*^$. Hydraulic is the only way to go. This allows you to raise the plate while moving. My guess is with a 250 Mercury with a pump, you won't even think about the prop. Plus, it will still take 30 minutes plus to swap the lower unit and shift linkage. (Also need two water pumps and extra long cables!! :depressed: ) Good Luck

Green Machine

Flatfish · 01-06-2003, 08:26 PM

Green Machine,

I may be wrong, but I bet Wiz can spin a wrench. I may be wrong though.

Mark and the dog.

Green Machine · 01-06-2003, 08:34 PM

Flatfish-
I don't doubt he can, and that was not my intention to say he couldn't. My problem was to have the prop on, then 10:00 PM at night deciding to fish the river the next morning. It's hard to motivate a quick change. I found running the pump 95% of the time was just fine. Just my $.02 and why I switched to an inboard v-8, tired of switching back and forth.

Green Machine

Flatfish · 01-06-2003, 08:53 PM

Greenie,
I understand the dilema. The prop is a lot nicer in big water. That, and if Madman gets sad cause his boat is too slow, he can bolt on the prop and hold on for dear life. The versatility is unmatched, which is why i mentioned the "Jack Plate" in the first place. Anyway....
Back to our regurlarly scheduled programming...

monoman · 01-06-2003, 10:31 PM

Mad
I have a 250 merc. It sounds like a '68
GTO with a hemi....it sucks gas like two hemis!
Would I change it......250 off the tiller.... no!
I like the feel when it jumps out of the hole....I run it often, but not everyday like a guide would, so the gas bill is just part of the game.
I have live wells in my fish boxes up front. This allows me to add weight up front while side drifting, or keep them crabs and clams alive for a long time.
The 23 is big and I'm glad I have the width and the extra room. I would not need the 25, but I'm glad I did not buy the 21.

Dan Christopher · 01-06-2003, 11:11 PM

Great info guys. Every time I think you coverd it all someone think of something I havent. keep it up. :smile:

Flatfish · 01-07-2003, 06:56 AM

Wiz,

I just got off the phone with a friend. He has had many boats. He said, and I agree, that you want to get what you need. Do not make it any more expensive than necessary. It makes sense to keep down the gadgets, and clutter, you will fish and not be messing around with some "James Bond" device. I have seen drifters that were borderline. It would be easy with a sled to make it too trick.

Good Luck with whatever you buy.

Mark and the astroturf dog.