Chinook and flies

fishgetter · 12-08-2003, 03:49 PM

I whitnessed some very unusual techniques on the southern oregon coastal rivers for fall chinook. Overall I would say that I saw 75% of all the chinook landed were foul hooked. Some were actually hooked in the mouth. I'm convinced that the 25% that were hooked in the mouth are flossed. I was wondering what you all thought......Do fall chinook feed regularly on flies??? or have fisherman just developed a good method of snagging with the combination of sinking line and flies with the opening mouths of chinook, AKA flossing.

Ty · 12-08-2003, 05:01 PM

You know, for all you mad scientist fisherman. A fish hookin the mouth is a fish hooked in the mouth. Yes, some fish are snagged in the mouth, yes that is annouying, but it happens.

The fact that flyfishing is one of the singe most effective ways to snag fish is a mute point in this case, since all I have seen on here is the concencess that many fish don't bite corkies they are flosses.

Any Salmonid will bite a fly, and I meant ANY! I liek to think about salmon and steelhead from there point of view and what life phase they are in.

I have caught all five spp, grayling, mt whitefish, yukon whitefish, and most of north america's trout and char on a fly.

Fish on small oregon coastal streams in general can be very difficult to catch during some time in there return to spawn. There are many ways adn techniques that are all equal in my eyes even though there effectiveness are not.

Bottom line: you have alot of fish concentrated, and alot of hooks in the water, fish get snagged happens, it is how a person reacts and deals with these snagged fish and or changes techniques to minimize this that are important.

[img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

SHOUGALNITE · 12-08-2003, 05:06 PM

Yes, I belive salmon bite flies. I have seen it.

fishin'O.C.and beyond · 12-08-2003, 05:12 PM

I have yet to see a big chinok with a fly down the throat like I have seen with a big glob of eggs or other bait, but who knows.

Buster747 · 12-08-2003, 05:41 PM

I was wondering the same thing one day while fishing for salmon with flys. Was the fish actually taking the fly or was the line just going through the mouth and hooking the fish.
I then cast to a salmon in some shallower water that I had spotted. I saw the salmon move to the fly and take it. So I know they will bite, or attack for whatever reason.

flywrapper · 12-08-2003, 06:00 PM

I hooked a fall chinook on a wooley bugger on the Washugal this fall. Was barely moving the fly when he jerked it, so it wasn't a snag.

lilnorthfork · 12-08-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Do fall chinook feed regularly on flies???

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Do fall chinook 'feed' regularly on anything? While flyfishing for sh last monday, my glo-bug (call it a fly or don't call it a fly, whatever) was at the end of its drift, rising on the swing when a nook came up out of the hole and took, I mean TOOK, it. The river I was on is closed to salmon angling; luckily I am quite adept at the art of losing fish. One case, make of it what you will.
lnf

sparkleboy · 12-08-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishgetter:
Do fall chinook feed regularly on flies???

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Besides landlocked fishes, do you think any species of fish regularly feed on flies...no, not when they're coming back as an adult.
Steelhead and salmon smolts spend 1-3 years of their lives in their stream of origin, before "smolting." They then spend 1-3 years in the ocean (rare 4 and 5 year fish do happen, too). So it's safe to say these fish spend half of their lives in their stream of origin. What do you think they might be feeding on before they head to the ocean? I'd have to say a majority of their food comes through insects of all kinds. Aquatic and non aquatic, but still insects. I'm not a fly fisherman, but I use jigs, which closely resemble flies, and I mainly target steelhead. I've seen a number of steelhead actual come out of the depths or darks to take my jig. Now, you can argue the point that steelhead can and do eat while they return to spawn, but they don't NEED to. That's the point. All anandromous fish eat flies when they're "growing up." There's so much controversy about snagging these days "oh, your leader is longer than 24 inches" "oh, your leader is shorter than 24 inches..." C'mon guys. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with flossing at all, but I don't really know how it's done. People can't be overly successful at doing this. Besides, if it's a hatchery fish, it's there for the taking anyway...

Mojo · 12-08-2003, 06:23 PM

Yes salmon EAT flies. I have caught salmon with the fly firmly hooked in the INSIDE corner of the mouth. Yes some unscrupulous jerk-wads floss fish with fly gear. Yes some unscrupulous jerk-wads floss fish with conventional gear.

tailchaser · 12-08-2003, 09:52 PM

I actually used to believe what you said, until I tried it for myself. Can't bash it until you do. Understand it before you criticize is my best answer. I'll try to explain some of what I've seen this year alone.

Do salmon eat flies, heck yeah they do. I've watched my dad's rod almost jump out of his hands while his fly was sinking, to having my fly sunk in the back of a fish's throat when I brought him in. The main reason you don't see that happen too much is because fish tend to snap at flies instead of inhaling them. I've had fish chase my fly within reach of my rodtip also. One day we accidently hooked a small shrimp in tidewater and threw on a similar pattern. All I can say is fish on! I don't know why they hit it, but they do. No different than hitting any kind of lure, there isn't any scientific evidence why a salmon hits a kwikfish, and no one will ever know.

Secondly, do flyfishers line fish, yes they do that too. It's like any other fishing method. The ones who don't understand it as well tend to jerk on any feeling, thus snagging a lot of fish. I fished next to a guy this year that foul hooked fish after fish and was going crazy because my friend and I hooked only 12, but all were in the mouth. Go figure. We would wait until our line jumped, instead of a line rub. This is only done after experience and getting tired of losing flies on foul hooked fish. It's not easy to instill a feeling of not setting the hook if it doesn't feel right. It takes a lot of discipline. Bait guys cry about the flyfishermen, and the fly guys do the same about the bait guys. In the end, it's the ability of the fishermen that holds the rod. People have been catching salmon in Alaska for many many years on a fly. So don't put all of them in the same bucket if you can't see a difference in the angler. Most of the time I can walk down a river or area and pick out the guys who catch fish. Whether it's with bait or a fly they aren't the guys who are standing in the crowds snagging fish in holes.

Anyhow, my .02

tc

fishgetter · 12-09-2003, 06:41 AM

I appreciate all of the different perspectives, Im still a bit undecided but I have changed my perspective a little. I guess it doesnt matter to me if a person is flossing, or just accidentally foul hooks a fish as long as ANY FOUL-HOOKED FISH IS RETURNED UNHARMED.... I will not knock fly fishing for chinooks until I try it.

lilnorthfork · 12-09-2003, 07:33 AM

Enjoyable, informative discussion. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Fish_N_Russ · 12-09-2003, 10:51 AM

I dont know why salmon wouldnt eat flies........they eat plugs, spoons, spinners and all sorts of things that look nothing like any 'food' and there is no controversy over those lures.

Ty · 12-09-2003, 10:56 AM

Fish_N_Russ you nailed it on the head. Catchin these silvery beasts has nothing entomology, just plain ol' fishing.

Old dog · 12-09-2003, 02:59 PM

F n R and Ty have got it right. Now that I've caught salmon on herring, spoons, spinners, corkies, yarn, eggs - and lately flies - it's whatever these great fish decide to eat, or attack. The beauty of it is the hunt and trying different techniques for them, and the mystery about the whole thing. Now, if we could just convince people to keep salmon habitat clean enough to continue their existence for everyone to share and enjoy, we'll be doing all right.

Gun Rod Bow · 12-09-2003, 04:23 PM

I have foul hooked fish on everything with hooks including quickies, drift gear, bobber and eggs, herring...just my gift I guess. I watched a guy line fish all afternoon in a slot where he cast his bobber and swung the hook through the slot.

I have watched guys take the plastic out of a Pixie spoon so they'd sink faster (for snagging) while I was drifting a 2/5 oz Little Cleo, with a belly pushed in the line, and the salmon hit my spoon so hard they actually tore the hook off on the strike, 3 times that day.

Any angler can miss-use any gear to floss or snag.

The streamers that I saw TC post look like baitfish, and all salmonids will strike small fish out of agression at times.

It ain't the arrow....

All Wet · 12-09-2003, 07:41 PM

Hugh Faulkus wrote an interesting book on fishing for Atlantic Salmon. One chapter was on the different ways salmon will take a lure, fly etc. A good read for some day when you can't actually fish.

steelymann · 12-09-2003, 08:58 PM

I believe the salmon have a survival instinct that is part of their spawning habits. Part of that survival instinct is to make sure their young have a chance at survival. I've used flies that look like leeches and sculpins and have had the $!%@ knocked out of my fly. I have however, tried something to keep the fish from being snagged. I went to a much smaller hook. More difficult but very possible. I use a size 6 or 8 Mustad 34007 saltwater hook for my flies. Land a 46 lb nook on a pattern I call the Black Widow. West coast style Spider Variant. The fish hit this small fly with a vengeance. I've seen this fly attacked at my feet (2-3 ft.) by nooks' and silver alike. The pinks like the pink version of it and the chum can't stay off the chartruese. So, in short, the fish will hit a fly and will hit it hard. Not everyone is trying to floss fish.

~steelymann~