Boating ethics?

[Perfect Drift]

Launching this morning for a good day of steelheading, I pull into the parking lot, not another rig in site. Almost ready to put the boat down the ramp and another rig pulls in, cool I’ll have some other guys to shoot the bull with. I launch and park the truck. The other fellows launch right behind me, we exchange Good Mornings and I pull away from the beach. As I motor the 3 miles to the spot, about half way I hear the roar of a V-8 engine beside me. I’m doing about 44 mph as they pass me, no doubt where either of us were going, only one spot up river in the area that we were headed. Sure enough, they pull right into the spot I was headed for. After I slowed and came in close, I make mention of ‘ kinda rude boys, you knew where I was headed and you cut me off.’
The reply was ‘ get cha a V-8 then, they’ll beat a little outboard any day. Oh well, pull in beside us, there’s room.’
Room for a canoe, I’m thinking no thanks, bumper boats isn't my idea of fun.
I guess I am of the attitude, if you were at the launch first and we each guessed we were going to the same spot, I wouldn’t try to cut someone off. I’d follow em up or wait near the spot and see where they anchored and then pull in. Ethics are important, it helps build friendships, sharing of the day, instead of hard feelings and being called a jerk. I think this is important for those of us that may not know. It’s like drift boating or walking the bank, it's the same thing. What would you do, wait or be first in line? Working at a school as I do, I see this in the youngest boys. Cutting in line, pushing to be first, running ahead when you’ve been asked to walk, words that are cutting and ME first. The result is, everyone looses. Hard feelings, anger and for some it goes much farther. Bigger bodies and bigger toys and much bigger egos.

[Wright Angle]

The rudeness of the our society is at an all time high, people cutting in line, pushing to be first, cutting you off in traffic, crowding you out of a fishing spot. you name it, people are rude it's all about me me my my. It's no wonder people have rage against rude people.

I was talking to a guy at work about how bad the rudeness is getting. I told him that I thought that some of the first lessons that we learn in life at home and in school was to wait until it is your turn, don't push and shove, wait your turn, be courteous to others

Well this guy tells me that I'm wrong. He tell me that waiting my turn was what I learned, what he learned was that people will let him crowd and push in most of the time without challenging him, It make his life easier. he gets his way.

I know he's right about the not getting challenged part. I hate confrontation so most of the time (not alway) I give way and leave. The bad part is I stop going because of it... I'm the one loosing out. They are getting their way, plain and simple..


[ 12-31-2002, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Wright Angle ]

[WP]

The rudeness is a pain and people need to be called on it. The funny thing is that when they are called on it, they get made at you! It reminds me of the old "snitch" label. Report a violation and then YOU are the guilty person, not the one who violated the rules....it is a strange world!
WP

[DJFISHS2XS]

When you assume that they were going to the same spot you were going you got a little thin skined. dont get me wrong maybe Im a little numb from the years I spent fishing bass tourny's but the first to any spot has the right to fish it, they did invite you in, and you didnt make any references to them passing you in a unsafe manner. I also think that the guy was changing the subject when you pointed out his aledged rudness by changing it to the V-8's power. I think some times we all get a little carried away with the ownership of the pools we fish. I know Im guilty of it, my remedy for it is to go a head and fish and try to outfish the people who invaded my space. when I do, they give me more room the next time they see me and they also well change there tune and start asking you for tips, it now up to you, give them tips and get a new friend or just be nice and get the respect that you have now earned......DJ

[RvW]

I'd have tied a big ole treble hook onto some 100 lb line and pulled thier anchor with it...

Naw, I do agree with the consensus that they "cut" into line, and I do find it rude. "first come first served" seems a little abused in this case...maybe thats why you see 225 horsepower motors on bass boats?

Its funny how when face to face with a person, they all agree the world needs a little more compassion and tollerance, then they cut you off in traffic.

I think Kharma will catch up to people like those guys, a flat tire on the way home, or a speeding ticket. Kharma is a powerful thing, and sometimes my only reason for being civil and walking away from controversy.

PD, Id fish with you any day. Good luck on your next trip.

[Sirprize Sirprize]

I see the same problem a lot fly fishing the Deschutes..only it's anglers that drop down below you when your on the move downstream for steelies. I am a fairly patient person, but having to wake up at 3:30 am to drive 2 hours to get to a spot only to have it ruined by a clueless-sort drives me bonkers...same feeling I suppose in your scenario. I think that, bottom line, we will always have some clueless types out there but the way we react to them may help them and us in future episodes.....I suppose it also makes us savor the rivers more when things go as planned. I think it's our responsibility to educate the unethical in a way that is not threatening or degrading...even though we might feel like pushing them into a deep current.

[Joe Schwab]

Just to relate a little story about fishing spots. I was guiding Halibut at Deep Creek and had located a sweet spot about 8 miles out. The hole produced big fish consistently and other boats within sight were not doing as well. On probably my 10th trip out a boatload of weekenders got in front of me. No matter which way I turned they ended up in front of me. I had my GPS set for a straight run to the spot and it was obvious what they were doing. As I neared the spot I throttled down. They were several hundred yards ahead and when they saw me throttle down they did the same. I began to circle and when GPS said ground zero I cut the throttle. I stepped out onto the bow to drop anchor and they came flying over. The operator screamed at me, "who do you think you are" I calmly replied " I know who I am, who the he!! are you?" He ranted about rude guides and how he was looking for "his" spot. I replied " I know where my spot is, so either drop your anchor alongside me and shutup or get your boat out of my way". He mumbled something about how he ought to just pull his shotgun and settle this. I picked up the mike and called for the Coast Guard. Of course they are hundreds of miles away but he didn't know that. He left in a hurry and I never saw him again.
As a rule I try not to cut someone off going to fishing spots. I found out though that especially during the spring Chinook run you had better be fast and early or your "spot" will be taken. I always encourage other boats to come in alongside and anchor if I'm there first. I just wish others would do the same.

[ 12-31-2002, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Capt. Hook ]

[Blue Water 23]

I don't know of any stretch of any river where there is only one possible place to fish. I'm guessing that he didn't know for sure where you were headed. Maybe he was just anxious to get fishing like most of us are in the mornings. It sounds like he was being nice by telling you you can crowd in on him. This would be different if he cut right in front of you at the dock at the end of the day or something. If somebody is paying the fortune to run up and down rivers with a big V-8 at high speeds then they deserve to be the first to a hole. There is always another hole to fish, or you had a chance to fish in your hole with him. I guess I wasn't there and didn't see what happened so my opinion doesn't mean much.

[T-Jet]

Perfect, I side with your frustration! I spent 13 years on a set of chopsticks, rowing my butt off for fish. Only to witness the rudeness and stupidity of others. Granted their are some that are polite and practice good river ethics. I now have become lazy and own a sled, with a V-8! I still havent forgetten what it was like to drift or walk the bank. I give those folks the water that they want. Also, to follow another boat that is under power and is going to the next spot. I too believe that what comes around goes around! Next time it happens, use it to fish another location that you wouldnt usually put alot of effort into and you may come up with some results. Until then, let me know what kinda boat they run and I can follow him around the river and use his excuse.
Shoulda had a V-8!

[Perfect Drift]

It isn't about ownership or it's my spot or money on the line in a tourney or tweaked out big motors, it's about an enjoyable day on the water. It's about enjoyment, this is fun, there is a big difference between a tournement and weekend fishing. It's about knowing what the ground rules are and remembering what we learned in kindergarden. Treat others the way we would like to be treated! Several days ago, I anchored what I felt was well below and to the side of an ifish member. He and his buddies started shouting at me calling me a jerk and other kind words. Words went back and forth for a short time. I baited up and moved, better to not continue the drama.

[Gus Orviston]

Hmmmm, if you had been in the hole first would you have invited them?

I agree with blue water, can't imagine only one fishing hole, and with your surprise you were alone in the parking lot you must have not expected to be there anyway. :whazzup:

gus

[cannonball]

Look around real hard, there has to be another place that holds alot of fish. you may need to change technique or presentation but try it.

The best day ive ever had with fall chinook came from this type of situation, i did however buy a faster boat the next year :grin:

[rags]

I think these discussions are working because my trip down the lower Wilson last Saturday was very enjoyable even with all the other db's. I noticed people anchoring far enough from the bank to pass behind, giving the bank fishermen the hole and just overall courtesy. I even had a bank fishermen net a fish for us. I know there is always the one jerk out there that makes it a miserable day but it seems to be getting better. Be polite and smile a lot it works. I think in this situation I would be there at O'dark thirty insuring I got there first. During springer season I made many trips in the dark to get to my spot only to find several boats already anchored. Always have a backup plan. Don't ruin a day of fishing. It's supposed to be relaxing and fun.

[Seefood Man]

I go out to ENJOY fishing. Any more I just can't be bothered by such A HOLES [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] . And, I won't get my blood pressure up over things like this. Yet it does bother me a little, however, I'm not going to let it ruin my day either.

[Sturgeon Tom]

It sounded to me like they talked about where they were going at the dock. If that was true the V-8 guy had no business taking the spot.
I have a 460 and can get up the river in a hurry. This same thing happened to me, at the dock (he was first), after finding out we were both going to the same spot he looked at my boat and said " I'm ******, I said no your not. I'll let you drop first. He said great. About three weeks later he dropped in next to me, and ask how my day was going. I said teriffic but I just ran out of bait. Guess what, he gave me bait.
Cirrhosis is right Kharma, what you put out there comes back to you.
After all we are not in a tournament and our living doesn't depend on us getting to that spot first.

[tipndwater]

lets face it the population on the rivers is growing very fast. it seem that there are more people with big new boats (V-8 or 225 OB). i have fished from a boat long enough to see a big change in people agressiveness. i have to admit it i have goten more agressive myself, by getting up at dark:30 and get my spot. i feel if you know of a spot you have to do this anymore to fish where you want. as far as racing to the hole i feel thats all part of the ego thing. if someone beats me to the hole i would i fish next to them that day and get up earlier next time. a lot of time that guy that raced you down there isn't a bad guy. usualy the first nice words of the morning set the tone of the whole day. unless someone is being totally reckless i have learned to deal with this type of thing. i have fished the columbia for years and i have seen all type of situations turn into a yelling match, all that does is mess up both parties day. i really hate to see this type of behavior specially when there is kids in the boat :depressed:
if all of us could just relax a little and enjoy, i feel thats what it is all about!

[Smily]

This might be a bad example but here it goes anyway. I have a drift boat. I have a Kicker. My boat will travel x miles per hour. I was at the ramp first. I said I was going to said destination. It will take me how fast did I say My boat traveled? Big motor boat guy takes off and is there fishing and almost limited out by the time I get there but still fishing. He invites me to join his hole. (he's there first)Am I entitled to claim that spot? My opinion he was there first. It's his hole. I would make friends and learn about the river if he is limiting. If not fish and see what happens and enjoy the day. It's alway's great to get out there and fish. That should remain the attitude the entire day. There will always be people with bigger boats and motors than me anyway. I try to sneek in where I can. Catch fish where I can also. Take care.

:smile: Smily :smile:

[ 12-31-2002, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Smily ]

[Thumper]

Sturgeon Tom --- "If that was true the V-8 guy had no business taking the spot."

I have to disagree. By that rationale I should give way to the rowboat rather than passing him too? Fishing in my life has always been "first to the hole fishes it first." Anything else seems screwy. I drive a little dinky jon boat with a Jet 30. I would hardly expect Rags or Tilla to hold up behind me with their big bazooba boats. I think they would laugh their heads off.

****** didn't say nutin' :tongue:

Sorry, ******. It was just the voices in my head again......

crabbait

[ 01-01-2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[NEUTRON]

with twothousandsevenhundredandfortyseven posts, you had to say sumthin' :tongue: .

PS, was that a first?

[ 12-31-2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: NEUTRON ]

[Perfect Drift]

All though we each may feel differently about this topic, it's good to bring it to the table and discuss it. Agreed? The coin doesn't always land on the same side with each flip.
I know I learned from this post and that's what we all need to do, just be aware that we don't all come from the same school. I'M GETTIN THE BIGGEST DARN MOTOR EVER MADE. Kidding of course but if I must have 'that' spot get there at O dark fifteen, O dark thirty is to late any more. Can ya see it ten years from now, party barge boys, I'm spending the night there. Thirty foot motor home on floats, you heard it here first. Ya gotta love this ifish place. What did we all do two years ago? I sure enjoy being able to post and learn how others feel, thank you Jen !!

[norms gone fishing too]

i have hooked many fish when my go to hole was taken. one day on the col. my fav spot for summer runs was taken so i moved over to a new spot done by 8 am 4 fincliped 3 natives 14+ and one chinook lost. the guys my spot had one take down. i have found many new spots because my boat is not too fast :tongue:

[WaterDog]

PD says:

O dark thirty is to late any more. Can ya see it ten years from now, party barge boys, I'm spending the night there.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Uh, in my neck of the woods, for springers, it's already the case. Come April, my boat gets reconfigured with a bed. Sometimes that isn't enough.

[1pump]

I can see both sides of the coin here. But I'm of the "first come, best dressed" mentality. If the guys in the inboard made a clean pass with plenty of room on the way to the hole and didn't endanger anybody in the process, more power to 'em. There's no speed limit on most rivers, so if ya got the power, use it. My little boat only goes about 30mph loaded, so this happens to me all the time.
Rags is right on. Always have a Plan B. Otherwise you'll just be ****** off all day and there's no fun in that. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

[Rock Stick or Fish]

I learned the plan B thing the hard way. I was cranky for like 12 hours...

Great Advice

RSF

[crabbait]

Perfect Drift - I feel your pain. However:

First - If you had discussed this at the ramp I think you would have been able to resolve it at the ramp. Start by telling the other fellow where you are headed (upriver) and ask where he is going. Since you were there first, many guys will let you make the choice if approached correctly.

Second - What would you have done if he was there a minute before you drove in? I always have got to have a back-up plan in case I am not the first one in the parking lot.

Third - It is not the first to the parking lot that has first choice on the water. It is first one to the hole. As ****** said, I don't expect a faster boat to follow me if they can safely pass and be on their way.

You can call it anything you want, but if a you must have a certain piece of water you have to do the things necessary to get there first. If you don't have the horsepower then you must use the alarm clock.

[Plum Crazy]

I agree but also disagree, It happens much more with us with driftboats with kickers. No matter how early I get to any river. I just know I'm not beating anyone to the best hole.
I figure if they want to blow up infront of me and I haven't spent the money on the Big 8 O well. That has happened to me putting in at river mill and going up to faraday for my boys to fish easier. 1st in and last to the hole. I had a simmilar instance on Christmas eve at Carver I was second in and I put the kicker down and motored down stream to get fishin. In my case I HAD a time line of a very quick drift that day I felt bad about going down first but Does it mean were going to have to fish like some Duck hunts Pick A number and Fish only that hole...I don't have the answers but I feel We win some We lose some lot's of H20 out there and It sure has gotten competitive for some reason.
FIRE

[Bobby Ray]

I think those boaters need a tall glass of Ifish
It does a body good.

I'm new to the boat scene and let me just say that all these boat ethics will be put to use.

BnB

[Stz ll]

Sorry for the harsh words Perfect Drift. However the facts were that you anchored about 20 feet beside us and about 20 to 30 yards behind us and dropped your anchor above the spot we were fishing, Had we got a big fish there was a very good chance we would have lost it your anchor rope.

A proper distance behind means dropping your anchor below our lines not above them.

No hard feelings. I hope we can share a hole again sometime in peace.

[Salmon Stryker]

Waterdog-

I was down duck hunting the other day and someone has done some logging above the lower cutthroat hole. They pushed a skid road down to the area where people camp. I'm thinking that spot will be gone for springer season. Oh well everytime I get down there your boat or someone elses is there anyway.

[JPSFISHY]

my.02 Boat ethics/river coutersy is a full time job for all of us, at all times. As time goes on, and there are more folks on the rivers, with more expensive boats and gear, it's gonna get worse. We all have to harder and smarter.
Communication is the key, most of the time.
Heads up to all boon doggers/draggers for the 2003 season. Please be responsible, and courteous to your fellow fishermen. Don't just slide by/under/and through drift boaters, and drift fishermen because you can. It's totally rude, and really started to get out of hand last season. If you see someone do that to someone else, talk to them. That should eliminate the need for "gloves" at the ramp.
Let's all work together and have some fun this season, shall we?

[WaterDog]

Salmon Stryker,

Thanks for info. It's not me that is there when you come down. I rarely get to fish there. :depressed: But that's ok, I have other spots I can camp on. :tongue:

The good news is the river is high (20+ feet) so rocks are getting turned over so moss should not be too bad. Now if the fish would just cooperate. Can't wait till the first one climbs that ladder. :grin:

[Dr Strangelove]

Both of you were probably in error since the speed limit on most Columbia tributaries is 32mph (at least on the North Fork Lewis). Any faster and you won't avoid the deadheads and rocks by the time you're on them. I'm sorry, but speeding to holes on tribs at 44mph plus is lunacy. Please don't endanger others on the river by going this fast in a sled. It is a pointless waste of fuel as well. Doc

[Perfect Drift]

Yep StzII, spoke with Shane via email about the issue. He could send you my note to him.
Sure nice to see the newbie get into a fish!
Keep on buying those out of state tags though, we need the $$'s. Yah, I buy Oregon's too.

[CARTMAN]

PD, I was told by a friend of mine that this kind of thing happens all the time. I posted a story that was along the same lines. It was called Tillamook troubles. I forget who wrote the response now, but it said just smile and out fish them. And when you hook one let them see you and show how happy you are when you net it. I am not one to let someone push me around. I don't look for trouble but when it finds me I show it what trouble really is. Maybe I shouldn't stoop to there level but hey I am human. Good luck on the waters and hope you meet some nicer people next time.

Cartman [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[Troller]

Not being their I will reserve judgement. Ya it sucks not getting your spot. First come first serve. He had the big v8 and got their first unless he cut you off in the last 200 yards to get their . My logic would say first at the spot gets it. If your first to launch doesnt reserve a spot for you. Maybe he left his house earlier. Maybe you drove faster on the road with your V-10 tow rig. Lots of variables and possibilities.

[fishpatrol]

Everybody likes to have a relaxing day on the river. It sucks when you show up and someone is in "your spot".

I don't know all the details but from your description you were 3 miles from "your spot", the guy passed you at a mile and a half and got to the spot. And you say that was rude?

Rude was the comment he made about "get a V-8". But then he invited you to fish there? I'd say unless you told him about your intentions before you got on the water then he was pretty damn accommodating!

[Scott B]

Well this didn't turn out to be a yelling match, but it could have. My wife and I were on our way up the main stem of the Santiam. We only have a prop on our Alumaweld so we couldn't get to far up. When we came around the corner there was a boat in the hole we liked to fish and we had no other way of getting to it, just straight up. We noticed that they were fighting a fish and hung back til we saw them land it. Then we moved up into place. The guy just went off. He told us that the fish lay right there were we had gone through and that we should have gone around the other side and over his anchor line and then dropped into place. We told him we couldn't due to having a prop, that didn't matter to him. Well my wife was ticked at this point she through on a blue pirate mag wart and stated back bouncing this down into the slot and WHAM fish on. This guy had different words after that. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Oh the other guy ended up with his limit of fish and so did my wife.

[FishBowl]

This topic really ticks me off, Fish the South Santiam this summer you will see what I mean, I sold my driftboat after having it 9 years it got to be a big Oh well just getting to old to do much about the rude ones. Lucky for all involed [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[fatfish]

I've experienced this both ways when heading to "my? spot". Heading up river to do some bobber fishing on the Nehalem I was followed by an old salty local individual who I had seen and spoken to a number of times. His boat was definitely faster than mine but he matched my speed and followed along. I anchored in the area I had planned on and began to fish. He anchored and fished. We both caught fish and enjoyed the day.

Another time on the same river while bobber fishing I was blown off my anchor by a boat with a large outboard which created a terrible wake. I was pushed into the bank. Boy that made me mad. Oh well, back to fishing. About 30 minutes later here comes Mr Horsepower paddling his boat down stream, with engine up and no lower portion of the outboard. Those deadheads really do a number when hit at high speed. He says nothing and I just smile. What goes around come around!

Let's all pretend we are fishing in the same boat and just enjoy the day and what it has to offer. Cheers....

[Tilla]

JPSFishy,
I am trying to think through (what could be construed as a threat) what you are saying. I am not sure what is wrong drifting by and fishing the other bank. I try to be very considerate and as long as I leave 100 yds or so downstream and don't "cork " you (my crew has strict instructions) I don't think I am being out of line. Any boat can sit on a hole (motor, oars, anchor), but I don't feel that it should reserve a 1/4 mile of river exclusively to any one entity. If you see the "Sneakin Out" boat being out of line I hope you can point it out politely and we can discuss it. Of course all bets are off during the Steelhead Challenge.

Glen