no free lunches for real anglers

[GL2]

WARNING! This post runs on & on @ the mouth.this post lumps people together, it may be offensive to some. Don't let me ruin your day. I feel I make some good points, maybe on some I went to far. I tell it how I feel. I'm a greedy angler I've haven't hooked enough fish this year (200 or so). I don't want to give out any info. that will over pressure spots. I want everyone to have to earn there stripes like I had to. I have a holy-n-thou attitude. I handed my rod of once this year to some 12 year old kid, it almost killed me to do it though! I will look you in the eye and lie to you on the river. Yes! I'm one of those types.
I'm beginnig to think I might take fishing way to seriously! Wait! You can never ever take fishing to seriously!
The only place I ever have heard the term"gill plate or better is on a deadline."
I think I might be a selfish jerk, but I hear those types are the best anglers! Peace!

Anyone who is looking for a free lunch is cheating themselves. I'm sick of guys wanting to know where all the deadline holes are. Or they want to know where the fish stack up low in the river waiting for rain. Then they go hammer fish that are extremley vunerable. I've seen guys snag the heck out of silvers like this. Stacked silvers are non players. Ethicnical anglers will only fish fresh fish that have just moved in. Thats when you have takers.
Then you got the guys standing shoulder to shoulder 20 wide slingin thier gear thru the water. That aint fishing, thats sillie-billie. Fish spook guys! They move back out and new fish move in. You guys might hook alot of fish, but was it sporting?? Do you feel good to yard them out at the deadline?? Or the logging bridge on the Kilch.??
I know there are guys that have never fished anywhere but the stacking holes. They aren't true anglers. Thet can spend all day slinging the same piece of water. They don't know how to read water, but they know how many cars parked on the road it takes to make a hotspot! Now that is real angling skill.
I can wade into 20 guys and 9 times out of 10 I'll hook & land more fish than the whole crowd combined. Then I release all of the fish. You should see there eyes. It's like gold fever only fish. I've had my friend rolling with laughter! Guys are begging me for my fish. A real angler has pride they catch there own fish.
I'll only fish with a guide if I'm the only one in the boat. And I won't take there rod with a fish. It's there day to have fun. I've spent 150.00 without the tip and the guide
had multiple hook ups & I got zilch. But I learned sooo much being the only one in the boat he should have charged me a $1000.00.
Guys need to get off there billie and break there deadline addiction. Deadline fishing stops you from learning how to be a angler. Find new water, try diffrent methods. Drift a river with a guide. You'll learn a hell of alot more than on the deadline. Plus you'll see new water, see some wildlife.
I can fish a mile of river from the bank if theres access. Then I'll re-work the water on the way out. Fish move in after you leave. I've worked good water top to bottom then go back and run right thru it again with differnt gear, and not get a thing either time. Then after I went all the way to my turn around headed back up re-working water. On the way up I ran into two guys working down. they were packing fish. I asked where they got them. Same spot I worked over twice. I told them I worked it over hard and fish must had moved in while I was gone. If they hadn't beat me back to that water those fish would have been mine. I was bummed but that's angling. I've had it work the other way before, guys moving on & 5 minutes later i got two fish!
The point is don't sling the same piece of water waiting for the fish to come to you. Go work for them. Man, you can catch a steelie in the most obvouis places. Behind a big boulder or fallen trees. Tailouts. froggy water. small pockets. You can fish it all.
I just hate seeing a bunch of guys stacked in one spot. I've gone in past them and come out hours later and they are still in the same spot growing moss on there boots.
My point is that you gotta get out and move.
Some guys don't know what there missing out on. When you fish all kinds of diffrent water you add soo much more to you game. You might not hook up as much as @ the dealine at first, but don't give up. It aint all about catching. And if you put in your time you it will payoff. You gotta earn your stripes.
You can learn the skills that will break you off from the crowd. I know thats the only fishing some guys know or have been shown. But I'm telling you don't cheat yourself.
i know a few wise sages will read this and smile. They know more than I'll ever know. They are old school. I know a few and I hang on there evey word. They open there mouth & I get goose bumps.
This deadline fishing is a new phenomenon! The old boys must just be puzzled by the whole show. I know they some times stop to watch just cuz they can't beleive what there seeing. 20 plus guys going at it!
Fishing in Oregon has changed alot in the last few years. It don't have to be so crazy. Guys camping all night on the holes and fishing them all day. Don't hog the hole all day!
I've asked guides I know that are cool if they want to work ahead of me or take over my spot.
I won't even talk to a rude guide. They drive me nuts too.
Alot of people are ruining fishing for the selcet few who do it the old schoolway.
It used to be if some one was fishing a hole you found another spot. Now gomers will just drive in on you, Lets get back to having some manners on the river. I tired of having to deal with people who act like neaderthals.

[ 12-16-2002, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[Day Late Fishen]

I I I ME ME ME u-stink I I Me getoff the river you don't belong ! Me Me I Do what I do I I I I u-stink Me Me Me I wish I was'nt so old & bitter I I I In conclusion I Me I Me I I I

[Grant Scheele]

You know GL2. You sound really angry but I honestly can't find anything in your spewing that I can disagree with. I am with you brother.

One thing. These stacker holes with all of the jerks. Maybe they are a blessing. With all of the bubbas fishing side by side maybe it keeps some of the rest of the river open to real fishermen.

IBEW, are you actually sticking up for the kind of fishing that he is describing?

[wiser]

I see the point, on both sides...

[Bobby Ray]

[GL2]

Ibew,
I'm only 31 years old & if I'm bitter then it shows how this stuff can grind on a person.
I'm not really that angry. I'm disgusted. I could puke! I hurts my heart to se what thing are coming too.
I'm not telling anyone to get off the river. This is the U.S.A. many men & women have fought for mine & anyone else's right to fish or be free. Freedom what a pretty word. Man that cheers me up Frreeeeddommmm!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAN IT JUST SOUNDS SO GOOOD!
Anyways, I was trying to get the point across that you don't have to be a deadliner. That to quote George Strait " there's a differnce in living & livin well!"
Peace to ya!

[ 12-16-2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[GL2]

big n bright,
Thats gonna give me bad deams dude!

[MasterCaster]

[ 12-16-2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: MasterCaster ]

[Bobby Ray]

Sorry GL2

[Grant Scheele]

Jon, he is not talking about plunking.

Name a specific part of the fishing that GL2 described that you think is EVER the right way to fish in your opinion.

[Bobby Ray]

Sorry GL2

I thought you would have liked it.

[WOODUXS]

Let'em stack up ! That means I dont have to deal with someone who don't appreciate fishing for what it is.....I am more than happy and willing to show anyone what i know about fishing and all the tips/tricks I've learned along the way IF they are sincere about learning to fish. Just my .02

wooduxs

[GL2]

master,
I know I came off strong, I sorry if I've offended people.
I just think some people are missing out on part of the fishing experance.
And 99% time guys stacked are hollering and fighting with each other.
And guys learn to fish like this and don't know any other way.
I just want to enlighten them. But then who put me in charge of that?? I don't know maybe deep down I think I'm holyier-n-tho
I realize I put my wadres on just like evrey other man.
U judge if my heart is in the right place, I'm not
partial to judging myself.

[First Light Bite]

GL2 Little grumpy tonight--- go to bed. How about the Handicapped ramp I bet that really makes your blood boil. Lots of people don't have the legs or feet to walk like they used to
give them a break my friend, easy access is the only place they can fish. Live and let live everyone of us has the right to fish how and where we want but thanks for sharing you opinion.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

GL2

I always avoid the large crowds at those kind of holes as well. However there are some places where that is the place to fish. That is where the fish are. Some of the methods used to catch fish are somewhat unethical, if not illegal. However, I do not think that the majority of fisherpeople use these methods.

I prefer to get away from the crowd and being a bank fisherman that means a lot of hiking. I enjoy being the solitary fisherman 1/4 mile away from the rest of the crowd. Even getting whipped in the face by bushes and brambles, sliding down a cliff on my backside grabbing at anything I can to break my fall. I have even broken my thumb and continued fishing because the atmosphere of where I was was all the pain medicine I needed. I just like being where the fish are.

Some people are not as agile as I am and therefore they can only access the easy to get to locations where there are a lot of people standing shoulder to shoulder. Are they doing anything wrong? No they are not. They are out fishing. Are they snagging fish? Maybe they are but most are not. I have seen plenty of snagged fish released and have seen them kept as well. I don't like to see snaggers but they are there. Eventually karma will catch up to them.

I guess my point is that there are some fisherpeople that are limited to the easy access highly used locations because of physical limitations. They should not be made to feel as though they are doing anything wrong. I am sure that when I get older I will not be scrambling over the rocks like I do today. I will most likely be fishing at the popular holes standing next to someone because my body won't take me where I want to go.

Just don't put everyone into the same category because of where they were fishing. A lot of these guys have been fishing longer than I have been alive. There's no way that I will ever disrespect them because they are doing something they enjoy.

I do know what you mean though. The Coho fishery on Eagle Creek this year was a joke. I saw one guy with about three ounces of weight, a large treble hook, and a little yarn. I wonder what he was doing?. I felt like breaking his pole. I walked away with a sick feeling in my stomach. I saw him later with a fish.

I see the same things you do and it makes me very angry. However I do know that many people fish the type of locations you are talking about because they are the only places with easy access. A well worn trail, parking on the side of the road, etc... Too bad a few ignorant, selfish, me me me people think that because they pay taxes that they are entitled to the fish no matter how they get them.

[MasterCaster]

I got rid of my post. I like to fish around a bunch of people. I have no problem with it. I like seeing people catch fish just as much as I like to catch my own. There is nothing wrong with fishing a dealine. Most of the fish caught are hatchery fish put there to be caught. It gives people a chance to congregate and tell stories. Meet new friends. See other people getting in on the fun of fishing and catching fish.

As far as staying in one spot. Some people cant get around as well as others and arent able to move around from hole to hole very easy. Other people just like to wait for the fish to come to them. Whats wrong with that?

If you dont like crowds fine try and stay away from them but there are more and more people getting into fishing and I for one think thats a great thing.

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[The Fishing Geek]

GL2:

This forum has very strict rules about swearing, and the creative use of symbols doesn't change that. Before management comes along and has to clean up your mess themselves I would recommend that you do it for them.

It's their house, it's their rules.

[Grant Scheele]

Well put Jon.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

Lokks like I was a little off topic. You obviously were speaking of fishing from a boat. I am speking from the bank but the same things happen.

Anyway for the most part I agree with what you say. Maybe toned down a bit in the future would add more credibility to the opinion from everyone else

[GL2]

Heavy. I stand corrceted. I'm sorry to lump people into on catagoery. I was spewing forth, and I'm thankful for the counter points & opions.
To all who it may concearn!
I'm just a man who ran his mouth. It comes from the heart. But please don't let me ruin your day. I think maybe I should think about something a little bit before I post it. On the flip side it's a shame too hold back what your heart is feeling. I'll have to ponder this for the future. I will say this, I don't want to hurt peoples feeling, but I will not be bullied by
POLITACLLY CORRECTNESS.
man, my spleeing need a hook file taken too it all the sudden!

[GL2]

fishing geek,
thanks! I will clean it up.
I only have to be told once.
Sorry to disrespct the house rules.

[norms gone fishing too]

I miss not being able to walk the rivers like i used too (bad back, knees and too much weight) so i fish were i can reach. you will see me sitting on a rock watching whats going as much as drifting. I don't snag fish and release all fish that were foul hooked and yes i see a small group of usaly the people who do fish right. i try and tell them but who am i. yes i report them when i can. but please don't condem me for not being able to get to the good spots and spending my day were i can get too. when i could get around i could hold my own with most. thanks for letting say this and give me a wave as i sit and watch the goin ons
:grin:

[ 12-16-2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: norms gone fishing too ]

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

GL2

I know how you feel. I let it fly all the time. Used to have to go to anger management classes when I was younger. Going to them just made me mad. I live and work in downtown Portland. What I see everyday drives me crazy to no end. I just make sure that when I let fly it is with people who know me and know how I am. Being alone one the river is the only thing keeping me from going ballistic.

I am hoping a few hours on the Clack tommorrow morning will help me get over the image of the snagger that your post made me remember.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

norms gone fishing too

I'll walk the river for you. Glad to see your still out there. Hope you limit on your next trip.

At least you get to watch the show [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[MasterCaster]

Two of the crowded places I fish, PC boat ramp and the hatchery hole on Three Rivers seem to get a bad rap because of a few bad apples. If people actually took a little time and payed attention its only 1% of the crowd thats like that and 99% are nice guys just there to have fun and maybe catch a fish.

I enjoy fishing in a place where there are alot of fish hooked/caught. It gives me a chance to see that look on other peoples faces that only a fisherman knows. The enjoyment of landing that great fish. I hand off alot more fish than I keep just for that reason. Alot of people fish and fish and never catch a thing, thats all part of it but when I hand a fish off to that kid or older person on the river and see the look in their eyes as they fight and land it, there just isnt any words to explain the feeling. Then it usually gives me the chance to help them with their rigging or what ever so they can catch fish on their own. Some people dont have the time to get out much and learn 100% on their own or have the money to hire a guide so they need a little help getting started. Fishing crowds gives me the chance to do this.

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[drift fishing fool]

i kinda see two sides to this post relating to me. i love to fish out of the drifter, hike in to places that dont get much pressure and explore, for winter fish. but in the summer when the south santiam starts hoppin, i do like to get in on the action. im not the kind to cram in at the top of a hole and fish it the whole day, but i do like to get up early, fish willey creek, bonk my fish and leave. its kinda fun to to get in the spots early and know that you are going to really pound on the fish. i only did this early in the season, when the levels were higher and the hole wasnt stacked with the locals though. as say as long as its fun for you then go for it. and when youre in a crowd be careful because i saw some potentially bad things almost happen down there once the local bankies were out in full force

[Day Late Fishen]

I,m sorry for the patronizing remarks GL2 sometimes I post before I think or overreact. I walk , slide , uphill , downhill over the ankle breaking riverock for miles often on my fishing adventures. I look at the stacked up fisherman on the deadlines and I hope they catch fish. Most I've seen are ethical enough and very nice people. Maybe they only get out 1 day every so often or can't move around so good . I know that I won't be able to do the extream hiking I do these days too much longer. I also think these people pay for these fish so if they find a way to get thier hook in a fishes mouth good for them. I'm not sure but I think the state milks out the fish they need then just bonks the rest. If I don't have 7 + hours to fish I'll go watch the maddness for spell . I don't expect my views are to popular but I'm just a fry in a few years I'll probably be ticked off to.

[Haftafish]

All of us have our pet complaints about the way some folks fish. I quit fishing once because of that and the only person that lost out was me. Now I try not to get so worked up over it and do what I can to help. One thing I have done is program my cell phone with the fish and game hotline. If I see someone breaking the law, snagging, keeping illegal fish, I make a call. Then Officer Fish and Game of the Oregon State Police gets to take care of it and I hope I did my part. However if what people are doing doesn't fit in with how I do it, maybe they know something I don't or they have different opinions. As long as they are legal ........So Be It.
My 02. worth.

[ 12-16-2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Haftafish ]

[Lepper]

And that is why you just learn to keep your mouth shut and not tell everyone in the world where the good fishing holes are!
dave

[TheRogue]

Master Caster, I feel the same way about the PC crowd, ThreeRivers, and the lower Salmon as you do....I enjoy the experience. I enjoy teaching someone how to do something correctly; how to rig, how to NOT snag a fish, how to net a fish. If a person doesn't like fishing there, DON'T!!!

I also feel that in terms of actually being able to catch a fish, sometimes it takes a better angler to catch one of these spooked fish than it does a small pod that you find unmolested somewhere. And yes, I agree catching is not the whole of fishing(at least it shouldn't be), and for many people, it's just a tiny part.

Lepper...yes, living on the South Coast has it's blessings. I can still go down on a weekend in the Gold Beach area in the winter and fish for a steelhead in perfect conditions and not see more than 1-2 people all day, on several different streams.

TR

[ 12-17-2002, 06:23 AM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[metalhead madness]

Being a transplant from southern oregon and befor that longbeach Cal. I learned alot at places like Rainey Falls on the rogue, Steamboat (macs place) on the north umpqua and Trail on the Rogue. These are very competative places to fish. My dad and I had only did the occational pier fishing. We moved to the northwest when i was 11 and had no clue as to what we were doing, But because of these "deadline holes" we were able to watch and learn. We also meet many lifelong friends that are still very strong relationships today. Do I fish those crowds now? not really, but for many new to fishing I't may be the only way to see how its done. And to those that have taught me along the way I give a big thanks. I now pass that along to others that I meet. I have a friend that had nothing in common with his 14 yr old. We all went fishing a couple of times together and now they are closer than they have ever been. They fish at least once a week now. I hand off more than I catch, but I have caught many. And I enjoy the look on others faces when they get a fish. My 14 yr old recently left his Mom's to live with me and has emersed himself in fishing. I hope he in turn will down the road teach and pass off to others. GL2 you have a point but are stereotyping way to many people into the illegal fishing methods. I c&r most fish but will sometimes turn one on to somebody. I do like the looks on peoples faces when I release a nice bright one though. Peace and have fun out there. It's only fishing. :grin:

[ 12-17-2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: metalhead madness ]

[Straydog]

Well put Metalheadmadness, I appreciate your perspective as well as many others on here.

One thing though Metalhead, and I admit to being a little 'rectal' about this and have probably let my frustration over a whole lot of other posts build too long so please understand that yes, I am taking it out on you....... :blush:

it is R-O-G-U-E!! One more time..... R-O-G-U-E!!!! Just in case anyone missed it....... R-O-G--U-E is the correct spelling of Rogue.

Thank you , I needed to get that off my chest. Now maybe I can go back to telling myself, "it's only spelling....!" when so many people mispells it in the future. :grin: :grin:

[ 12-17-2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[TheRogue]

Thank you Straydog!! Ya beat me to it. :grin: :grin:

The ROGUE!!

[metalhead madness]

All better now

[outdoor.spec.ops]

Maybe if you were to spend more time teaching people the right way to fish instead of complaining about it, the complaint issues would be less apparent than the praises you would get from fellow anglers you helped out. I bet if you were to teach more of the kids like the "KID" you handed your pole to (ONCE)how to fish correctly, they wouldnt have to be poor anglers in their adulthood.

[snowball]

looks like somebody is not having a very festive holiday season- [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[snowball]

i am curious as to what the "old schoolway" is-- cane pole? horse hair and a bone? sticking head in water and grabbing the fish with teeth? Spearing? Bow and arrow? old school gil nets? lighten up dude or light up--

[Miss B Haven]

The only thing that really bothers me about this GL2, is that I don't believe you are considering new anglers. I fished for years and never caught a Steelhead or Chinook. Then I read a little paperback (cant remember who wrote it right now- most of you out there would recognize it I'm sure). It said "go where everyone else is. Do what the other guys are doing (the ones catching fish stupid, not the other guys! [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] ).
So... I gave up my brush wacking boulder hopping solitude and went to Josi's farm and paid my buck (inflation has raised this a little). I stood shoulder to shoulder with 50 of my best friends. I put on whay they were using and I casted exactly where they were casting.
Guess what - I caught fish! After a couple of seasons of this it got real old. Ya I saw snaggers, smelled cow stuff, had folks cast over my line etc etc.
But you know what- I learned something then I moved on. Back to the brush wackin' boulder hoppin drift boatin peaceful experiance I was after in the first place. Heck with catchin fish. I already prooved I could do that!
Even that got old (there are NO secret squirrel zipper lip rivers in the US of A, I don't care what you think!). So - I quit river fishing and bought a boat big enough to get out in the big blue. I can always find a drift out there where there's peace and quiet. Or not if I choose.
I understand your attitude and desire, but consider the new guy. Maybe you were born catching fish, but some of us had to go to the deadlines to learn how from and expert like you!
Of course there are also people who never learn to move on. Don't curse them, fell pity for them. They are not enjoying this great sport and life like some of us. :depressed:

[CATCH AND EAT]

GL2 your writing style seems very familiar. Just wondering what the "Reel Truth" is here? Can't say that I agree with anything you said. Very selfish and self centered. You really have sucked a few folks in here. Sorry not me. Get some anger counseling for your fishing problems.

[Grant Scheele]

Oh Crap! If GL2 is Steve Hanson I am going to be incredibly embarrassed. I do not agree with that guy on anything.

[GL2]

Catch & eat,
I'm not in any alter ego. I'm posting under my one & ONLY MONIKER.
I realized that I lumped alot of people all together in one boat.
I'd say the whole root of my sniveling comes from frustration & the changes I see on the water.
When I was a kid, my step dad took me out on the Tucca alot. He used to know allmost everyone you'd come across. Fishing was diffrent back then. It was diffrent even back in 95.
Everyone is posting saying fishing is on the decline. I don't buy that, there a tons of people fishing now.
It's gonna get worse. Fights, trash, crowds, snaggers, ect...
Lets see in a few more years how many people think I'm tripin out.
I eat, sleep, breath, fishing.
And I'm telling everyone that, there is a problem starting to rear it's ugly head.
Fishing spots are going to close down because of abuse, & law breaking. How many people want to take there 7 year old kid to a packed deadline. How many land owners are tired of having to deal with the zoo.
The list goes on & on. And you can trace a high percentage of the grief on the new element involed in fishing.
It's not my job to teach them how to fish & have some ethnics.
Thats all I will say on this subject, those who see it clearly understand. Those in denial will come to rue the day, they told me to basiclly stick it.

[ 12-17-2002, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[choppers]

gl2, i see your point and can tell you see others point too. your 31 and that means your not 21. i'm right their in age with you and just last spring i hiked miles to pack fish out. this last hunting season rolled my truck 8 times down a mt. yes 8 times. no long hikes for me until my back becomes half of what it used to be. just a thought i wanted to share.

happy winter fishing is all i'm looking for.

[Flatfish]

I grew up in the '80S fishing the Kilchis from a drifter. We saw the same 5 or 6 boats every weekend. The Wilson would have 30-60 boats taking out at Sollie Smith. We did not fish the Wilson much.
Part of the reason i like to fish is for peace and quiet. My favorite run of fish is the native spring steelhead in Feb- May. A catch and release fishery keeps most of the folks in front of the tv. We row some of the upper river to further avoid the crowds.
My home river will see it's first return of Broodstock fish soon. It will ruin much of the experience for me. The hordes of fisherman will crawl from the woodwork. My quiet river will be fun no more. When the crowds arrive, I will find a new home river , so I can enjoy a little quiet time. I feel many will do the same. These are the people who are fishing for the same reasons as me. It will eventually become too busy for my tastes.
A driftboat requires a lot of time and work to fish proper for a day. It provides the opportunity for quiet. When it no longer is worth the effort to row all day, amongst the crowds, I will buy a sled and forget about rowboats. If I must deal with crowds, I will not work so hard, or take so long.
It will be a sad day when it happens. It will happen.
The reason I tell you this is to show that things are changing. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes not. If you are a young angler, and resent the poster here, wait about 20 years, and see if you still feel the same. If you agree with GL- fine. But I understand what he is trying to say-I think. I wish I could go back to the quiet days on the river again. I did not say if I agree with him or not. I am just posting an observation.

Mark and the dog.