Map of holes on the North Fork Nehalem

[Jennie@ifish]

North Fork Nehalem legend Jim Erickson has taken the time to draw out a map of the North Fork, naming the good holes. I have some work to do on it, but it's really awesome, if you want to learn the river.

He named the holes, and tells if they are steelhead or salmon holding waters.

He would like to offer them for sale. Would anyone be interested?

Jen

[WheresMyBobber]

Since that is on my list of rivers to really learn this year, yes I'm interested!

[husker]

me 2....

[V. Green]

I would be interested. How much $?

[The Fishing Geek]

Definitely laminate it.

[brshooter]

Great! Now I will have to spend the night to get a spot. Bad enough that you have to be on the river three hours before daylight to get the good holes now. Fishing below the deadline at the hatchery, I have been there at 4am to get a spot only to see small fires all along the bank as people are sitting on the holes. At least it gives a person time to drive to the Wilson before daylight.

No, I'm not really bitter at the idea. In some ways, I wish I would have had a map like that when I started fishing the river. It would have shortened the learning curve a bit. Though I still think learning a river is half the fun.

Jim,
Don't give up all the holes.

[edsr]

Yes I'll take one - Few people have Jim's experience on that river. Cost?

edsr

[King Kong]

What a sin. Give out a map of all of the holes on a river? [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] The regulars will love it !!! By the way, count me in for one :smile: .

[OneLastCast]

I wouldn't worry about too much detail being offered. You can't show the too much of the detailed stuff when you are using those flat sided crayons. His wife had to keep telling him "Blue is for water, Brown is for land" and every other hole is named "Jims Hole".


OneLastCast

[Jennie@ifish]

I'm not sure what the cost.
I can relate to ALL of the feelings, good and bad.

It's been tough thinking about whether I'd even MENTION it!!!

So... that said, back to the planning stages, and I'll mention to him about bank spots... and... we'll just see.

J

[Hogmaster]

Jennie -

Everyone else is just being nice. They say they are interested, but really they aren't. Tell Jim there is need for, unfortunately, only one map.

You have my address, right?

:grin:

[brshooter]

OK Jennie & Jim,
These will be decoy holes won't they? :grin: You are really trying to draw people to areas away from where you will be fishing. Please tell me that is what you are trying to do.

[Jennie@ifish]

I think he maybe plans on selling this the day he hears he's only got 24 hours left to live.

:smile:

[SteelieSteve]

grumble, grumble grrrrumble. no marketing NF secrets J & J. I had to learn the river all by myself and can't beleive for a second that Jim would think to sell maps of the river he lives on. Way to much pressure on a small river to further popularize it with maps [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

[ 12-16-2002, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: SteelieSteve ]

[Jennie@ifish]

My very, very wise friend states that many of these rivers are already mapped in many, many fishing magazines.
Just check them out!
:smile:

[First Light Bite]

Jen, I had the pleasure of drifting the river with Jim a few years ago and would be very interested in seeing a map. He knew every drift and exactly where the fish were. But what I would really like to see is a biography of his life experiences on the river and the changes he has experienced in his lifetime. He had some great stories somebody should interview him. We all have a lot to thank him for he has been a great lobbyist for all of us whether we knew it or not.

[parthur]

Count me in as well [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[Uglygreen]

Just a thought:

Probably not worth if for him. As soon as a couple people buy one there is going to be bootleg copies given to their friends, and then their friends friends, etc... Sooner or later someone will scan and post it. It will get around pretty fast.

Pretty soon everyone has a copy and no one wants to buy one. At that point its worthless for the author. Thats the problem with things like that. If he wants to get the information out there for the general public, I don't have a problem with it, but he shouldn't expect to make a signifigant amount of money from it.

Sorry to be a bummer, just my opinion.

UG

[DriftR]

Sounds like a READY, SET contest should be used for the very first 5 signed by Jim and you too Jenny.
Gr8 Idea.

[Jennie@ifish]

I don't think Jim expects a bunch of money.

He isn't that way.

He's been teaching people how to fish and how to run the river longer than anyone I can even think of.

He's just that way. :smile:

Regardless of the gruff reputation, Jim's a pretty good guy. :smile:

Jen

[Miss B Haven]

Hey I want one just cause I'm a map freak. I'll take a signed edition, not folded to frame.

[metalhead madness]

I'd love to have one. Unlike UG I feel most will not bootleg copies. The current maps available are still selling great. Case in point the Clackamas map. It was copywrited in 87 and we all know that river has changed alot. As long as the maps are readily available I feel that people will purchase and not pirate. Then again I could be wrong and one quick click to www.mapsfreeforeverone.com could cut Jim out of the loop. I have some that i got from Little Richards a few years ago and love em. BTW who and when is someone going to redo the clack. Just my .02 :smile:

[Cutter]

Me too!!!

[Bobby Ray]

I'm with Miss B Haven,

I would like a signed map and maybe even numbered.

Where is he planning to sell these maps?

BnB

[ibeanfishin]

hey sounds like a book needs to take care of all Jim's interest on this river and all his knowledge of the area. P.S. would buy a map, fished the river for the first time last year. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[fatfish]

I have a house on the North Fork and really like to have one to frame and hang on the wall.

[GL2]

Are you kidding me? This must be a early April fools joke.
This river allready receives a ton of pressure.
I allready don't fish this river much anymore cuz it's a zoo.
I've had people give me a little info on a river before, then I put in my time learning the details. Now were gonna give the details away?? I know guys who have alot of time invested in learning the water. Getting info from them is like pulling teeth. But we have rules to the game. They give you the mininum of info. & you bust your butt to develop it from there. You do good and your proud of yourself & they have more respect for you. They even might throw you a bone with some meat on it, cuz they know you aren't looking for a free lunch.
Getting a map to the good holes will not make you a better angler. You will catch more fish, but you will not develop the skills that will make you a indpenent angler. I can fish just about any river I've never been on and hookup if there are fish in the river. The only info I need is a heads up on where you can get in trouble on the water.
I've fished 13 differnet rivers this year and the only one that kicked my butt, was the Kalama. I never had fished it before, and 3 days got me no fish. But you can't buy the info I learned about that water. Those 3 days will payoff bigtime in the future. I hooked at least 200 fish this year, but that still isn't enough 4 me. I can never hook too many Slamon or Steelies. I'm a greedy angler, I allways want more. It drives me too keep bustin my but on the fine details.
I'll give a angler I don't know a little help, but I'm not gonna penalize myself. I will look you straight in the eye and lie to you. If you got a boat full of fish and are on top of your game I'll tell you more, cuz it's a resepct thing. You gotta earn your stripes.
How much time do you think Ugly Green has put in to find his spots. This man is a die-hard in my book. If he post his hot spot & I show up & fish it when he's there, then he just penalized his self. Cuz I'm gonna yard fish & then other fish get spooked during the fight and he isn't gonna have as productive of a day. Now even if I don't hook a fish my gear is gonna be slingin thru the water, that penalizes him.
I don't know how 20 guys can fish a deadline,
fish spook man! You might hook up, but if you got the drive you can find quiet water, and do better. Steelhead aint gonna hang out all day in a slot and have gear buzzing by them. They will move back downstream to a spot with no preesure.
I hope people don't think I'm coming of as some fishing god, cuz I'm not. I know anglers who have forgot more than I know. I hope someone will learn a little from this. I'm sick of seeing all the combat fishing. That's not what angling is. Angling is not just about catching fish. It's being alone or with a good friend enjoying this great northwest we live in. It's knowing your the only one who saw that deer, or osprey get a fish. It's seeing the biggest *******g tree you ever saw in your life. Finding fresh cougar track, and knowing you were the first man to see that fresh track. You might not hook a fish but, you got some thing that alot of people @ work would have loved to have.
Sometimes @ the end of the day I'll head to the deadline on what ever river I'm on. I'll wade in with the crowd, hook & land a fish just to let it go. Just to pi$$ them off. It's my experance that a good angler can out fish the crowd all by themselves. Some times I love to yard 4 or 5 fish. let them go & then blow on out.
In closing I will quote my favorite STS author
Tony Dunnington.
..."If you tell that person(s) you hooked and/or landed 5 to 10 steelhead you are penalizing yourself. The word spreads like wildfire. Additional fishing pressure will put a serious damper on your catch statistics."
...." If your like me you can never catch too many steelhead. Fish on."

[ 12-16-2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Oh! Isn't this FUN!?!?!

:smile: :smile: :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

...and then we can do one of the Kilchis, and the Wilson, and... hey! We can invite all of Portland down and teach them the secret holes, and teach them where to dump their trash too! Whoo hoooo!

We can teach them bankies how to tick off boaters, and boaters how to tick off bankees!!!
We can then put river cams on every good hole, and when it's a really good day, I'll just post that pic on the front page of ifish... and...

OH MY! I better go to bed. :smile: :smile: :smile:

Jen

[Alligator]

Wow! I didn't think I'd see the day when an I-fisher, would spill the beans on an entire river including all the best fishing holes. For the first time I kinda feel sorry for the locals on this one.

I can hear 10,000 trucks warming up in the Portland area drive ways getting ready to head to the coast. Why, Shoot,, I'll have the Clackamas all to my self. :grin:

Oh, Jen, I won't be buying one of them maps, cause they will be free the day after! Of course that's just a prediction.

[GL2]

Jen,
You made some great points I didn't even think of. Ya, I'm sick off seeing the trash. The way some spots get trashed just breaks my heart.

[Uglygreen]

GL2

You make some good points, but one of them I have got to respectfully disagree with.

My expirence is that I have very much IMPROVED my catch statistics by sharing information with others.

Here is the reason why.

For example: Back a couple weeks ago, when the water was low low low and the only local game was those late Summer Steelhead up high on the Clackamas, I had at least 40 people email or ask "Where do I go, How do I get there, What do I use?" I emailed back everyone of them and awnsered their questions to the best of my ability. No bull awnsers that I thought would help get them into fish.

I never saw the pressure increase, maybe there were more people there? I never saw them. Some got on Ifish and reported catching fish though. Great! Good, I helped someone.

Someday in the future those same people are going to share back. Maybe I run into them on a river someplace and they give me a hot location or what color / rigging is best. Maybe they stumble into a "zipperlip", brag a bit and I want to go try it, chances are they will return my earlier favor If I ask. Maybe its a technique fishery I know very little about, but someone I have helped in the past is a master of. I'll bet that they will help me master that fishery as well. Maybe I'll lose that bet with a few folks, but playing the percentages, other folks will (and have) taught me a lot more than I have (or ever could) teach someone else.

Yeah, maybe a little extra pressure in the short term, but I take the longer view of the vastly increased oppertunities that come my way. What if, instead of spending those three days learning the Kalama on your own, you went with someone who knew the river?

I'll agree that its fun to learn new water, explore and all that, but my learning curve is a lot shorter cause of the people that I have shared with and have shared with me.

I wasn't really sucessfull at fishing (catching) till I met some people who were willing to teach me. Today I would go out of my way to help any one of those people get into fish. That attitude has vastly improved both my catch ratio and oppertunities.

For everybody else out there!

A few rules apply. First and formost is that information is VALUABLE, understand that, and when someone gives you information treat it with RESPECT. If a guy shares his favorite hole with you and its not a well known spot, and you don't think he would want you to pass it on or drag 20 of your best friends down there, DON'T do it.

On the other hand, whole rivers, well known spots on those rivers, standard techniques, and stuff like that don't count as "secrets" in my book. I'll never understand people who think places like "dikes" on the Wilson, or the hatchery hole on Three rivers are secrets. Ask me about places like that and I'll spill all the beans. Where to anchor, what color corkie I like to use, how long to get there after the tide, all that little stupid "secret" stuff that can mean the difference between a sucessfull trip and a wasted and frusterating day for someone unfamilier with the river.

Maybe that same guy will help me avoid that same frusterating day on some other river down the road.

People like Steve "Fear no Fish" set my example and are the good guys in my book, I'll bet that any time he had a hankering for a trip over to the West Side he would have a buncha people willing to give him a ride. He gives me a email or a call and I would put a lot of effort into putting him on any fish I know how to catch, any day, any time.

Standard Disclaimer: Tis post is not directed at any particular person, NO OFFENCE was or is intended to anyone reading this who's opinion differs from mine. :smile:

UG

[ 12-16-2002, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[GL2]

UG,
You got a trust with some of them. Some people don't have trust or respect in there vocabulary.
I see your point, but it can be a two edged sword.
Peace,

[ 12-16-2002, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[The Fishing Geek]

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0916473147/qid=1040100993/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-3792323-4369531?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" target="_blank">You know what would be cool? It'd be really cool if someone created a book of all of the places to fish in Oregon. Maybe they could list all of the lakes, creeks, rivers, pot holes, and even some ocean areas to fish, and possibly even provide maps of rivers and lakes and the best places to fish them. Break it down by region, and then alphabetize the bodies of water.

You'd probably only need to publish it every few years, but I really think that people would buy a book like that. Would it ruin the fishing everywhere? I don't know. Maybe, if enough people found out about it. On second thought, if information like that fell into the hands of the masses then it could get REALLY ugly.

What would be a good name for that book? Oregon Fishing? Fishing in Oregon? Nah, too bland.

I'd call it "The Fishing Geek's Excellent Adventures". Yeah, I like the ring of that.</a>

[JohnB]

The most important aspect of maintaining and growing our sport is fishermen/women. Without continued support our fisheries will die off to other interests. In fact the number of licensed fishermen has declined in the US over the past five years.

The best way I know to encourage and support future anglers is to have them share the joy we all get with a hookup. Ill never forget the grin on the kid's face from his first trout even though it was only 6 inches long (also the fun expression when we let it go).

If we help increase the joy of fishing for newbies it will help us all. The best way I know is to help them learn. This is one good way. IMHO.

No sour grapes about having to put in time, learn the hard way, pay your dues, and all that. If I can help someone new, I will gladly offer all of what little I know.

[ 12-16-2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: JohnB ]

[willametteriveroutlaw]

I'd be game for a map.

[Fishin Magician]

Sorry to be a party spoiler but I'm not in favor of something like this...... I have fished the river for 15 years and it has taken me that long to find all my favorite spots where I dont need to fish within 12" of the next guy. Why do we keep the zipper spots quiet.......So theres not 10 people standing there when you get there. I know that most people think I'm being selfish and whatever, but those that know me personally know differently. Why doesnt Fishbait publish the ingredients to his cure, or Ammerman give you a detailed map to all the hiding spots on the Trask for Springers. C'mon I am willing to help out fellow anglers but this is bordering the ridiculous.

[Flatfish]

If you are on a river and drop into a wonderful looking hole and don't realize that you have... a map ain't gonna help. On my home river I have no clue what the names are. I don't care. The fish lie where thay lie. Are there little fish symbols on the maps to show which rock has a fish behind it? Learn a river well. It really does not matter which one it is. Just learn it well. No map will ever replace experience.
Mark and the dog.

[corrirod]

I'm all for it! I think everyone should buy a map! I think we should plan a floatilla the following day..................................

.........(shhhhhhh, meanwhile me and stealheadslayer will be all alone on the Wilson, Trask, or the Kilchis. What do you think SS?) :tongue: :grin:

Seriously, I'm not really interested in the holes as much as the map itself. Holes change, water conditions change holes, time of day works better for some holes, theres dozens of methods for each hole, etc., etc.. What I'm trying to say is you can tell someone there is a good salmon hole there but there's a million variables that will decide whether you catch a fish there or not.

I'd be interested in a map that described the river features, ie. deep holes, riffles, waterfalls, rocks, etc. just so I don't get killed drifting it the first time.

[skrimmy]

Definite interest here.....I'd love to see a map like that!

[Fish'nDude]

Yes, I'm very interested. Please let me know how much.
Thanks

[TillamookChinook]

It would be particularly valuable if it described access points for bankies. I am interested. Where do I send money?

[Fish Hound]

Sounds great. Please let us know when they are available.

[Bill Monroe]

Jen,
I would definitely take the extra time (and charge the extra bucks) to laminate them...count me in...you should shave some off for yourself, too...
Bill

[Cutthroat_Behavior]

Yes, that sounds wounderful. Showing bank spots would be great

[Mad Mikey]

Don't do it, there are no holes with fish in them on that river...............

[bllelk]

What's the most he'll take for one? :grin: :grin: :grin:

[Whopper Stopper]

Count me in. It would be nice to see how his names are different from my names.
:grin:

[Jennie@ifish]

I know, Alligator! Isn't he generous?

Alot of ifishers these days won't tell you anything!

:smile:

Geez, you guys...It's not as if this map is the golden truth of all! (Jim might disagree here...) :smile:

Most people won't even be able to run this stretch. It's technical and dangerous.
Before ever running it, you should always hire a guide to go down. My Bill thinks long and hard about perfect water conditions before he ever goes down, and doesn't even prefer to do it. As much as he loves the North Fork, it is a stressful stretch of river to fish. We often choose another river, just to keep fishing pleasant and non stressful.
You will learn as much as one map can tell you, on one guided trip.
This map is more of a Jim Erickson historical thing as anything else.

It does not tell you, "Bankies, you can cut through this farm, climb down this rock, and enter here."

In fact, he has helped the many farmers on the river keep their stretch of water without trash by notifying them of trespassing fishermen who can't fish clean.

If you could see the map, I doubt your panties would be in such a bunch right now. :smile: Not everyone can go down the river with Jim to learn these things. He doesn't take as many people down, as he once did.

I'll never forget the many trips I've gone down with him, and even if I had the map to go with it, there is nothing like him telling you the names of the holes while with him.

The map is not going to say, "Hold your bait in this seam---, as it crosses over to the other bank, there is a 4 foot drop where the steelies hold".
That's stuff you have to learn on your own, or with a guided trip, besides, where they hold changes constantly with the water levels.

This has been fun in the making, but some people get so paranoid about "their water" that it isn't fun for me anymore.

No more sharing. Remember, this is ifish.net and we are here to keep secrets. :smile:

I started this web site to share my love of fishing with others. I hope it remains so.

I give. Merry Christmas!

Jen

[ 12-17-2002, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[RichH]

GL2,

Think Prozac.

[AtWorkALot]

Jennie,
When are you going to make Kilchis River map for purchase? :tongue: I went up the the park for the first time on Sunday, what a good looking river. The color was great, but too much water for me.

[Jennie@ifish]

I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

It's not like it's any big secret what the hole names are.

I really do agree that promoting our rivers is what we are here for. We need interest!!!

I sure like the UG response, too. :smile:

Jen

[GL2]

RichH,
It aint about my prozac, or thorazine!
It's about a map that will fall into alot of hands. Then you'll have people acting like they do the day after Thankgiving and the whole shopping deal. The mob syndrome wiil be the rule. You'll have people camping on the best hole all night long.
You ever wonder why some guys want & need to fish the sure hook up spots.
My opion is that a percentage of anglers skills are so lacking the only place they think they can catch a fish is on the honey holes! So they listen & lurk for the info. they want.
Then you got a zillion guys pounding the water. Now you got a place where some people won't fish anymore cuz all the pressure.
And most of the mob are lousy anglers. I've seen it before.
A good place turned into memories for some.
My parents live up past Eagle Fern park. Two years ago from OFC site at the falls down to highway 224 I counted 67 cars parked on the road.
You think that might be a little too much pressure??
I'm not against other people fishing, just don't deney me the point that some in the crowd will bring the whole deal down. Yuo get alot of bad apples. Why make it easier for them to find more spots to bring there deal to??

[ 12-17-2002, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: GL2 ]

[Bounty Hunter]

I get about 3 maps of all your the secret spots each month. It's called Fishing and Hunting news (or yesterday's news as many of you call it). Yea it shows me the holes, and it even tells me when some guide thinks it's the best time and his favorite method for fishing the river. The problem is, it doesn't explain the fine details that allow you to catch the fish. There's no explaining where the fish like to sit during different water conditions, or exactly where the slot is, or what the best way is to approach the hole from the bank to avoid spooking fish. I think this map would be nice for newbies to the river, but they aren't going to stay on the river constantly unless they have immediate success.

Let's see I've followed the articles to the Elochoman, the Deschutes (1 upper, 1 at mouth), Drano, the Lewis, and Paulina. Total fish for those initial trips: 4 trout out of Paulina and one trout above Maupin. Did I go back to any of them? No. There are too many places that I know that I am more comfortable with.

Like I said, there might be an initial surge of people, but unless every newbie to the river can yard in the fish like they do on theWind, they won't be back in droves.

PS Sign me up for 1 map so I can add it to the pile.

[Thumper]

Life is short. Share.

[Sturgeon Tom]

I am so tired of people saying i have spent 5, 10, 15 years learning a river and i'm not sharing. Didn't you read the Oregonian fishing is on the decline.
UG you said it best, I've shared for years and it comes back to me in rewards.
:smile: :grin: There are serveral books about fishing Oregon lakes and rivers. "Fishing Central Oregon" is one.
They say no to a map but if I hire a guide and learn the river and how to fish it no complaints. :whazzup:
I'll take a map and add it to my collection

[ 12-17-2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Sturgeon Tom ]

[Pitch Pocket]

The book Fishing in Oregon has the rivers of Oregon mapped and holes id'd. It has been around for years.


Detailed maps of nearly all river systems are available and should be used by anyone who plans to navigate these rivers. Knowing the names of the holes won't necessarily change a thing.


Rivers get clogged when some yahoo goes online and says the fish are in and we caught our limits and posts photo's bragging of their success.
[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

I personally think that this website should have detailed maps of the major river systems with the holes id'd as a service to the contributing members of the site.
[img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

Contributing members would be defined as members who contribute funds each year to the maintenence and operation of iFish.


[ 12-17-2002, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Pitch Pocket ]

[ChuckDog]

Read all the posts, got to one section and thought I was reading the script to 'Glengary Glenross'. Save it for the theatre.

[DriftR]

GL2,
I for one do not agree with you. I have been fishing and boating in Oregon my entire life. When my wife and kids vacation in unknown areas we always look for a map. If you think looking in a persons eyes and not telling the truth is your way, so be it. Personally you would never make it in the group of fisherman I go with. Sure all spots are crowded. That's life. I don't stay home because of all the bank and boat fisherman fishing the same holes I want to fish. Same reason I don't stop going to fishing shows and seminars. Heck, they are crowded but you always can find room and maybe a new friend along the way. A very old friend of mine died a few years ago and he always told my buddy and I " It ain't been fished until I fish it". So true. Many times I have seen the holes plugged with boats and bank fishers and yet waited my turn and got lucky. Gr8 that you have the skill to fish all the rivers and catch 200 fish this year. I think maybe your missing the entire point of "going fishing" It has never been a numbers game for a lot of us. Just my thoughts

[Brine]

I think this rubs at the heart of Ifish. To share or not to share. If Jenny is to be succesful with it, and she is, members need to share; otherwise, there is no interest. Many will lurk and not share, and some will lie but there is value in sharing. Everyone benefits. Yeah, I want a map. Does it mean I will abuse the priveledge, NO.