Braided line fail... - www.ifish.net
The Oregonian's Bill Monroe!

Go Back   www.ifish.net > Ifish Fishing and Hunting > Ifish Community

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2011, 11:05 AM   #1
Finny Business
Tuna!
 
Finny Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richland, Washington
Posts: 1,741
Default Braided line fail...

Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?

__________________
Join CCA
Support Fish First
Finny Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:08 AM   #2
Spade
Tuna!
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: Braided line fail...

I've had issues with the knots slipping or being weakened by poor knot tying. What knot were you using?
__________________
~Gabe
Float from the bank and drift from the boat.
Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:32 AM   #3
Reelamin
Steelhead
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NCW
Posts: 463
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Never had any of my braid fail ever....polomar for terminal...blood for in-line
__________________
The second ammendment was written for a very specific and real purpose.
Reelamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:34 AM   #4
eat, sleep, fish
Tuna!
 
eat, sleep, fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the Rogue
Posts: 1,017
Default Re: Braided line fail...

With braid be sure to wet the line before cinching it down.

I've never had a problem with Power Pro. The only time its broken before my leader is when it gets really nicked up and I'm too lazy to retie.
__________________
"God grant me the serenity to accept the size of fish I catch, the courage not to lie about it, and the wisdom to know that no one would believe me anyways."
eat, sleep, fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:50 AM   #5
Chukarhead
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I've had issues with the knots slipping or being weakened by poor knot tying. What knot were you using?


Another vote for the Palomar for terminal connections, by the way.

Did you have a T-bead above the swivel, by any chance? I've used them to keep weeds off, but they'll wear a pretty serious nick in the line after a few hours.
Chukarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:56 AM   #6
Sgt.Slaughter
Sturgeon
 
Sgt.Slaughter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ...the good side of the river...
Posts: 4,019
Default Re: Braided line fail...

time for some 65-80lb...
__________________
EAT WHAT YOU KILL
Sgt.Slaughter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:57 AM   #7
FishGeek
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 1,191
Default Re: Braided line fail...

65lb tufline xp w/ Palomar has never failed me.

Rivers inlet knot is good too.
__________________
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

NFS = No Fish Society
FishGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:01 PM   #8
Lingasaurus
Steelhead
 
Lingasaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 146
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?
Classic Power Poop. I ran into a bad bulk spool a while back and am much happier with JB soild or hollow. A littele more but definately worth the peace of mind and not having to worry about your line. Plus it's made in OREGON!!! .
Lingasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:05 PM   #9
Finny Business
Tuna!
 
Finny Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richland, Washington
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Maybe i need to tie a different knot? i tied the terminal knot with a clinch knot. I have successfully used that knot for ever and never had an issue with either braid or mono.I am absolutely methodical when tying my knots, often checking them multiple times to ensure that they are correctly tied. The only thing above the Swivel was a corky and then a plastic slider for my dropper. Might be a bad spool of line or a knick?? but the line only had one trip on it before yesterday and i am pretty careful about things. It was a very clean, almost surgical seperation......
__________________
Join CCA
Support Fish First
Finny Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:07 PM   #10
Bonk
Tuna!
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: L.O.
Posts: 1,631
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Standard Clinch knots will slip.
Bonk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:08 PM   #11
Spade
Tuna!
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Fish-N-Fool knot gets my vote every time. It's quick and easy to tie and gets the job done for sure.

Tie it, connect your swivel to a 20# weight and lift it....it should hold just fine being 50# line...that'll give you the confidence in your line and knot.
__________________
~Gabe
Float from the bank and drift from the boat.
Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:12 PM   #12
eyeFISH
King Salmon
 
eyeFISH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,754
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Clinch knot reminds me of FishOn rodholders.

Clinch knot may be the most popular knot tied, but I'll never understand why folks insist on going with a knot so prone to failure.

Clinch knot is a 70% knot in mono.... in my eyes, that's a 30% failure rate. It has only one worthwhile attribute.... quick and extremely EASY to tie (even blindfolded and in the dark!). Gets you back in the game in a hurry if you break off in the middle of a hot bite.

Clinch knot and superbraid NEVER belong in the same sentence except when the word NOT falls in between.
__________________
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg

Long Live the Kings!
eyeFISH.... The Keen Eye MD
eyeFISH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:27 PM   #13
Chukarhead
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Clinch knot reminds me of FishOn rodholders.

Clinch knot may be the most popular knot tied, but I'll never understand why folks insist on going with a knot so prone to failure.

Clinch knot is a 70% knot in mono.... in my eyes, that's a 30% failure rate. It has only one worthwhile attribute.... quick and extremely EASY to tie (even blindfolded and in the dark!). Gets you back in the game in a hurry if you break off in the middle of a hot bite.

Clinch knot and superbraid NEVER belong in the same sentence except when the word NOT falls in between.
Agreed. It may be the wrong knot for mono and for braid, but it's for different reasons--it breaks at 70% mono strength, but it will slip at the first sign of serious pressure with braid. You could land small salmon all season and not put enough pressure on the knot to make it slip, but it doesn't take too many lost barn-door halibut to change old habits in a hurry.

Fish-n-fool looks fine, uni works, but why not go with the good-'ol-palomar--it's as easy, fast, fool-proof, and strong as you're going to get with braid.
Chukarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:29 PM   #14
Spade
Tuna!
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukarhead View Post
Fish-n-fool looks fine, uni works, but why not go with the good-'ol-palomar--it's as easy, fast, fool-proof, and strong as you're going to get with braid.
Because the Fish-N-Fool beat the Palomar in tests.
__________________
~Gabe
Float from the bank and drift from the boat.
Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:33 PM   #15
Finny Business
Tuna!
 
Finny Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richland, Washington
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Lots of good information about the knots. As i mentioned before i have been tying the clinch knot forever and have never had a failure, knot slip or what ever you want to call it. That being said if there is a different knot that has a better hold ( Palomar for example ) then i am not against using that. I do not believe that this knot failed, it severed and severed cleanly. I have always tied the clinch because as Eyefish mentioned it was fast and idiot proof to tie and it has never failed me with either braid or mono. Might be time for me to change that though after hearing about the 30% failure mentioned above...
__________________
Join CCA
Support Fish First
Finny Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:37 PM   #16
hooksetter1
Tuna!
 
hooksetter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Turner
Posts: 1,598
Default Re: Braided line fail...

If you don't mind a loop connection, learn how to tie a Bimini twist... I'll never look back. Bank fishing aside, that knot is all I'll use with spectra.
__________________
hooksetter1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:48 PM   #17
eyeFISH
King Salmon
 
eyeFISH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,754
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooksetter1 View Post
If you don't mind a loop connection, learn how to tie a Bimini twist... I'll never look back. Bank fishing aside, that knot is all I'll use with spectra.
Take it a step further and combine that Bimini with either a Palomar or fNp knot and you've got yourself a virtually 100% connection.
__________________
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg

Long Live the Kings!
eyeFISH.... The Keen Eye MD
eyeFISH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 12:53 PM   #18
Reelamin
Steelhead
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NCW
Posts: 463
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Maybe i need to tie a different knot? i tied the terminal knot with a clinch knot. I have successfully used that knot for ever and never had an issue with either braid or mono.I am absolutely methodical when tying my knots, often checking them multiple times to ensure that they are correctly tied. The only thing above the Swivel was a corky and then a plastic slider for my dropper. Might be a bad spool of line or a knick?? but the line only had one trip on it before yesterday and i am pretty careful about things. It was a very clean, almost surgical seperation......
Yep, Wrong knot...I have had good luck with San Diego Jam if you like the clinch knot style. Easy to tie, but polomar is easier and better...IMO.
__________________
The second ammendment was written for a very specific and real purpose.
Reelamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 01:19 PM   #19
Chukarhead
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
... I do not believe that this knot failed, it severed and severed cleanly.
None of us know if the line broke or the knot slipped, obviously. It's fairly easy to tell on mono because you'll get the pig-tail twist on the end. My guess is that the separation looked surgical because it was the cut tag end of your line that slipped through the knot. Braid doesn't have much in the way of memory.

I use the Trilene knot (basically a suped-up clinch) on mono because, as eyeFish said, I can tie it in the dark. I don't mind a lower breaking strength because I know I'm never going to put 20-25 lbs of pressure on a mainline knot. I'm OK with a 16lb breaking strength. I've actually had some pretty weak Palomar ties with mono--not sure why, but I'm fairly confident that it's operator error.
Chukarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 01:38 PM   #20
Fins
Chromer
 
Fins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 505
Default Re: Braided line fail...

If fishing with a slider on your mainline look at the slider. I have had failures with metal sliders due to a burr in the ID of the slider, especially problematic when bouncing out while plunking from the boat. Go with the plastic sliders to eliminate this problem.

Fins
Fins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 01:41 PM   #21
Fins
Chromer
 
Fins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 505
Default Re: Braided line fail...

I have also chipped the eye on the tip of a rod that cut braid cleanly when under load.

Fins
Fins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 01:47 PM   #22
Salmonator
Sturgeon
 
Salmonator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 4,286
Default Re: Braided line fail...

If you run the line through the eye twice at the beginning of a clinch knot you should be 100% fine. I use it for halibut and used it guiding for fall chinook for 5 or 6 years and to the best of my memory have never had one knot fail. That was with power pro and tuff xp.
__________________
Team cheesy cartopper

If I knock my own salmon off with the net in the middle of the ocean and nobody saw it, did it actually happen?
Salmonator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:12 PM   #23
Finny Business
Tuna!
 
Finny Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richland, Washington
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonator View Post
If you run the line through the eye twice at the beginning of a clinch knot you should be 100% fine. I use it for halibut and used it guiding for fall chinook for 5 or 6 years and to the best of my memory have never had one knot fail. That was with power pro and tuff xp.
Interesting idea... Thanks for all the guidance everyone. I appreciate it. I posted this because i do not want to lose another fish to a controllable variable.
__________________
Join CCA
Support Fish First
Finny Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:12 PM   #24
Chukarhead
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Because the Fish-N-Fool beat the Palomar in tests.

This may be common knowledge, but what tests? I'm not arguing that it isn't a superior knot (although I'm still unsure that it isn't a re-branded Uni knot), I'm just curious. Thanks!
Chukarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:14 PM   #25
Nor Cal Drifter
Ifish Nate
 
Nor Cal Drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,024
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Clinch knot reminds me of FishOn rodholders.

Clinch knot may be the most popular knot tied, but I'll never understand why folks insist on going with a knot so prone to failure.

Clinch knot is a 70% knot in mono.... in my eyes, that's a 30% failure rate. It has only one worthwhile attribute.... quick and extremely EASY to tie (even blindfolded and in the dark!). Gets you back in the game in a hurry if you break off in the middle of a hot bite.

Clinch knot and superbraid NEVER belong in the same sentence except when the word NOT falls in between.
Not trying to thread-jack here, but curious Doc...what is considered a 100% not (or closest to it) when it comes to mono?
__________________
"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it."
Nor Cal Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:18 PM   #26
wiser
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SW Gresham (Filbert Hill)
Posts: 2,550
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Not sure it helps or hurts but I always put a drop of super glue on my braid line used for terminal tackle while using a polymar or FnF knot. Don't think I've ever had a failure at the knot.
wiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:22 PM   #27
task
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Clackamas, OR
Posts: 123
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Ran into the same issue fishing oversize sturgeon in the Willamette last week. Missed my first hook set, so on the next opportunity, put my thumb on the spool and pulled hard. The 85 pound braided line (not sure of the brand) broke way above any knots, what seemed all too easily. Is the lack of "stretch" in braided lines a contributing factor?
task is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:29 PM   #28
lilnorthfork
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Banks
Posts: 3,436
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fins View Post
If fishing with a slider on your mainline look at the slider. I have had failures with metal sliders due to a burr in the ID of the slider, especially problematic when bouncing out while plunking from the boat. Go with the plastic sliders to eliminate this problem.

Fins
Could have been a nick in the swivel also. I've noticed scissors can do that and, after losing a few fish one day, always pay close attention to cutting off a swivel I intend to reuse.
__________________
Go fishing, eat something and take a nap = Perfect Day
lilnorthfork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 02:51 PM   #29
KChookem
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dallas OR
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Braided line fail...

One more possibilitity is the Corkie and Slider wearing on your line, and/or repeatedly slamming into your knot.

Also, while this does not appear to apply in your situation, Brass Swivels are easily nicked when clipping or cutting off tie to retie, and that almost invisible nick will cut into your line.
__________________
...KChookem, Dallas, OR
KChookem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:02 PM   #30
Pepe' da Pack Mule
Steelhead
 
Pepe' da Pack Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 280
Default Re: Braided line fail...

I would venture to say it was the plastic slider. The edges on the sliders (especially the metal ones) dig into the line especially with heavy lead plus add the force that is behind any good hook set. I used the metal sliders on 65# powerpro halibut fishing and bringing just the weight up off the bottom from a few hundred feet, two lines broke off and the other two lines that we reeled up were near breaking. Thankfully no halibut were lost due to this. Now we just use a corky and a large swivel for the slider.
Pepe' da Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #31
eyeFISH
King Salmon
 
eyeFISH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,754
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Drifter View Post
Not trying to thread-jack here, but curious Doc...what is considered a 100% not (or closest to it) when it comes to mono?
F'nF or 2xSDJ or fNp... I believe these all rate 95% or better.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthrea...84#post3734784
__________________
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg

Long Live the Kings!
eyeFISH.... The Keen Eye MD
eyeFISH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:12 PM   #32
Finaddict91
Ifish Nate
 
Finaddict91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Woodland, WA
Posts: 2,007
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonator View Post
If you run the line through the eye twice at the beginning of a clinch knot you should be 100% fine. I use it for halibut and used it guiding for fall chinook for 5 or 6 years and to the best of my memory have never had one knot fail. That was with power pro and tuff xp.

I do the same thing, never had an issue.
__________________
A man only has so much good in him.
Finaddict91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:51 PM   #33
surfin cowboy
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 165
Default Re: Braided line fail...

dang, ive been using the improved clinch knot for 40 years. what an idiot. if your knot is breaking then you're not tying it right. or should i say you're burning it. i dont care what knot you tie, if you burn it, it will fail. i can honestly say i've never lost a fish using the improved clinch. mono or braid.
surfin cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 05:12 PM   #34
Bassjacker
Chromer
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 701
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Clinch knot reminds me of FishOn rodholders.
Fish-On Holders have always done me right - However, My jaw drops EVERY time I see one of those Kings you catch up there!!

Maybe They should Rate Rod-Holders :backlaugh:
__________________
I only eat "Tuna Safe" Dolphin
Bassjacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 05:24 PM   #35
ifishtolive
Tuna!
 
ifishtolive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: florence oregon
Posts: 1,116
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonk View Post
Standard Clinch knots will slip.
Mine never do, Improved clinch with 3 wraps around the swivel works great for me. Gonna go to a FNF
__________________
Tag It N Bag It
ifishtolive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 05:31 PM   #36
wayout
Sturgeon
 
wayout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 3,638
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Clinch knot or improved clinch knot should only be used if you don't care about losing the fish. For me it's Palomar on braid and Trilene on mono - much better knots than either clinch knot. The other knots like Uni knot and the Fishn Fool "FNF" are harder for me to tie, although tests say they are even better.
__________________
Get Me Out of Here and Let's Go Fishing!!
wayout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 05:36 PM   #37
Keta
King Salmon
 
Keta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Klamath Falls...for now
Posts: 10,931
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lingasaurus View Post
Classic Power Poop. I ran into a bad bulk spool a while back and am much happier with JB soild or hollow. A littele more but definately worth the peace of mind and not having to worry about your line. Plus it's made in OREGON!!! .
JB (Jerry Brown) Spectra is high quality, it's an Oregon company and Jerry is a good person. Most of my Spectra and all of my hollow Spectra is JB.

If I'm tying knots in Spectra it's usualy a Uni.
__________________
Where in the AUP does it say you can't point out when someone is confused?
Keta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 06:15 PM   #38
F3spyder
Cutthroat
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50
Default Re: Braided line fail...

sufix 50# braid only way to go. only one problem with it..... you'll have trouble cutting it
F3spyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #39
surfin cowboy
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 165
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayout View Post
Clinch knot or improved clinch knot should only be used if you don't care about losing the fish. For me it's Palomar on braid and Trilene on mono - much better knots than either clinch knot. The other knots like Uni knot and the Fishn Fool "FNF" are harder for me to tie, although tests say they are even better.
ive landed a 74 a 63 and a 59 on the kenai. all on improved clinch knots. your right i dont care.
surfin cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 07:07 PM   #40
nunyet
Chromer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: central ore
Posts: 1,000
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeFISH View Post
Clinch knot reminds me of FishOn rodholders.

Clinch knot may be the most popular knot tied, but I'll never understand why folks insist on going with a knot so prone to failure.

Clinch knot is a 70% knot in mono.... in my eyes, that's a 30% failure rate. It has only one worthwhile attribute.... quick and extremely EASY to tie (even blindfolded and in the dark!). Gets you back in the game in a hurry if you break off in the middle of a hot bite.

Clinch knot and superbraid NEVER belong in the same sentence except when the word NOT falls in between.
Double the line first and tie a improved clinch knot, strongest knot in braid. Also in mono try it.

nunyet

Last edited by nunyet; 07-06-2011 at 07:13 PM.
nunyet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 07:26 PM   #41
Takedown1278
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 206
Default Re: Braided line fail...

palomar is the only way to go for braid to swivel connections.. that being said I use a clinch all the time.. never had a knot fail.......... I have had just a few fish landed over the years in my boat.... well over 10k.... if you lube the knot, have quality line, inspect it after each fish.. and re- tie when needed it works just fine! also helps to have the drag set properly........ but hey what do I know?
Takedown1278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 07:29 PM   #42
Takedown1278
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 206
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by task View Post
Ran into the same issue fishing oversize sturgeon in the Willamette last week. Missed my first hook set, so on the next opportunity, put my thumb on the spool and pulled hard. The 85 pound braided line (not sure of the brand) broke way above any knots, what seemed all too easily. Is the lack of "stretch" in braided lines a contributing factor?

no that would be a knick in your line from something.... happens alot if you OS fish... when 150 yrds of line is out and you have a fish swimming near the bottom, it hits things.. you dont see all the knicks and wham.. it will break.....
Takedown1278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 08:13 PM   #43
kotabear310
Cutthroat
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 36
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?
The only question I have is in your last statement about it broke cleanly after the take down / hook set.

Are you setting the hook? Braid has no stretch. I watch a guide in a boat next to me in a hogline a few years back break 65# power pro on 3 springers on the takedown / hook set. It was like he was fishing sailfish on the hookset.

On my boat with Kwikfish and power pro, road goes off get it out of the holder and fight the fish....... don't swing away.
kotabear310 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 08:56 PM   #44
LPayne
Coho
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?


Lots of good responses here about what knot you should be using. The important thing I have learned is with any knot with braid, the line must be doubled in one manner or another. I learned this after losing several dollars in jigs while kokanee fishing with new super braid and relying on my old standby of the improved clinch. Just when I was about to give up on the line as being no good, I read the label that recommended the Palomar knot. I tried that and have never considered going back to mono since. I used 14 lb FireLine in Wickiup and got hung on the bottom. I stopped the boat and began pulling the line by hand because my little reel couldn't handle the pull to break the line. Next thing I know, the little stump I was hooked on began its trip up to my boat. Out of the water it must have weighed near 80#'s. I know in the water it is a lot lighter but I know I couldn't have even come close with mono.

A standard clinch or a standard improved clinch is not a good choice of knots for braid period. I still use the improved clinch when I'm flyfishing as it works well enough for what I am doing and in mono it doesn't have the same fail rate. Plus the fact that I've been using it since I was old enough to learn to tie my first knot. If you either double the line over when you tie the improved clinch, or you thread it through the eye of your hook twice, then it can work on braid. But the Palomar knot tests higher, and is actually much easier to tie. I usually cheat and make it easy on myself and tie on one of those duo-lock fasteners at each connection point and then just clip on all my following hardware after that.

As some here have pointed out, the FNF knot tested higher than the Palomar knot, and if it makes you happier, use that one. What I found since beginning the use of the Palomar knot is that my line never breaks at the knot anymore. Not in test breaks or in actual fishing breaks. When my line breaks, it is always at some other weak spot in the line. And so far, has always been intentional. So, no matter which of those other knots test better than the Palomar knot, it isn't likely to be the knot that fails.

Also, since I haven't heard anyone mention this here yet, when tying line to line connections, I have switched from the good old standby of the blood knot to the uni-to-uni knot. This is a relatively simple knot to tie, much easier than some of the other dependable knots, and will hold much better than the blood knot, both in mono and in braid. Also, the blood knot will only hold reasonably well if using mono in similar sizes. The uni-to-uni knot seems to hold very well no matter what line types or diameters I am connecting. I have tied 30lb braid to 30lb mono using this knot and it holds great.

Good luck and if you switch to any of the other knots, the Palomar, the FNF, the FNP or any other of the good knots for braid, I'll bet your days of accidental break-offs are mostly all behind you.
LPayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 09:23 PM   #45
flounder pounder
Tuna!
 
flounder pounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: beaverton reluctantly
Posts: 1,146
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifishtolive View Post
Mine never do, Improved clinch with 3 wraps around the swivel works great for me. Gonna go to a FNF
exactly!
flounder pounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 10:24 PM   #46
7West
Coho
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 55
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?
It must have been nicked during the tying process. Of course it could just be bad.
7West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 07:29 AM   #47
Spade
Tuna!
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukarhead View Post
This may be common knowledge, but what tests? I'm not arguing that it isn't a superior knot (although I'm still unsure that it isn't a re-branded Uni knot), I'm just curious. Thanks!
The most referenced and documented is the show Knot Wars.

And as Doc posted, our local thread that discusses the FnF and Doc's own experiments/creations/successes....and failures.
__________________
~Gabe
Float from the bank and drift from the boat.
Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 07:42 AM   #48
Chukarhead
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
The most referenced and documented is the show Knot Wars.

And as Doc posted, our local thread that discusses the FnF and Doc's own experiments/creations/successes....and failures.
Thanks!
Chukarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 09:35 AM   #49
slip ring
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 401
Default Re: Braided line fail...

I hooked a pretty nice sized sturgeon last week and lost it when it was under the boat just as I was trying to coax it up off the bottom (45 ft of water). It wasn't pulling that hard when the main line (50 lb. braid) broke directly above the swivel. I use the FNF knot and was really surprised it happened. I mentioned it to a guide friend that said that braid has the ability to cut and wear itself over time and the knots should be retied periodically. I tied that knot at least one season ago so I figured it was solid advice.
slip ring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 10:02 AM   #50
Spade
Tuna!
 
Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: Braided line fail...

HAHA! Nice to hear your knot lasted as long as it did. I re-tie mine at least every other trip.
__________________
~Gabe
Float from the bank and drift from the boat.
Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2011, 06:55 AM   #51
USAF1975
Fry
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Maybe i need to tie a different knot? i tied the terminal knot with a clinch knot. I have successfully used that knot for ever and never had an issue with either braid or mono.I am absolutely methodical when tying my knots, often checking them multiple times to ensure that they are correctly tied. The only thing above the Swivel was a corky and then a plastic slider for my dropper. Might be a bad spool of line or a knick?? but the line only had one trip on it before yesterday and i am pretty careful about things. It was a very clean, almost surgical seperation......
Finny,

You may want to review all the posts on the referenced website. There have been many similar failures of the Power pro braided line 40 lb and 50 lb.

To eliminate the line, as not being the culprit, do a pull test with two leader knots at either end and a fish spring scale and see at what lb tension the line fails at. Apply slow steady tension until failure.

Another test is to just hang a five gallon bucket from the braided line and add known weight (down rigger balls if you have them) until it fails.

Power pro will replace your line for free although, in my case the line they provided also failed way below its specification on the two 1500 yd spools replaced.

I had no knot failures in any of my lost fish with power pro line. I changed all my line to another top brand after my experience and lack of answers from Power Pro factory reps. I have had no lost fish since with the other brand line.



http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfis...ded-40-lb.html
USAF1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2011, 04:34 PM   #52
eyeFISH
King Salmon
 
eyeFISH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,754
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF1975 View Post
WOW pretty damning thread.

I must say that I've not had any issues with 65# PP that was purchased many years ago. I simply use small 75 yd topshots over dacron backing to keep mutiple reels spooled with fresh line.

I was VERY disappointed in my most recent purchase of red 50# PP last summer. Cost my boat one Kenai king last July.

I think I'm going Jerry Brown with my next spectra purchase.
__________________
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg

Long Live the Kings!
eyeFISH.... The Keen Eye MD
eyeFISH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2011, 06:09 PM   #53
Finny Business
Tuna!
 
Finny Business's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richland, Washington
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF1975 View Post
Finny,

You may want to review all the posts on the referenced website. There have been many similar failures of the Power pro braided line 40 lb and 50 lb.

To eliminate the line, as not being the culprit, do a pull test with two leader knots at either end and a fish spring scale and see at what lb tension the line fails at. Apply slow steady tension until failure.

Another test is to just hang a five gallon bucket from the braided line and add known weight (down rigger balls if you have them) until it fails.

Power pro will replace your line for free although, in my case the line they provided also failed way below its specification on the two 1500 yd spools replaced.

I had no knot failures in any of my lost fish with power pro line. I changed all my line to another top brand after my experience and lack of answers from Power Pro factory reps. I have had no lost fish since with the other brand line.



http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfis...ded-40-lb.html
This has started to really make me curious now. I think i am going to do a little testing with a couple of different knots to see how it goes.. I understand that a different knot can contribute to better or worse performance so thus the different knots to be tested. Again i have tied that clinch knot for a long time with both mono and Tuff Line. I have caught very large fish using a clinch knot with the Tuff Line ( Oversized Sturgeon ) and i feel like those fish will typically put much more stress on a knot or line than a nook taking a Kwik. This was the first season i have spooled my salmon / steelhead rods with Braid and am starting to question my choice of braid and even knot if i am going to fish braid.

i will try the test you suggest to see if there is a flaw in the line as i suspect and let you know the results after i do.

thanks for the link. it seems that there may be some quaity issues from time to time with PP.
__________________
Join CCA
Support Fish First
Finny Business is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2011, 10:19 PM   #54
foxer
Sturgeon
 
foxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,917
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?
Same thing happened to me 3 weeks ago. Im done with Power Pro
foxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2011, 10:27 PM   #55
Fishtail
Tuna!
 
Fishtail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Yamhill, Oregon
Posts: 1,314
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxer View Post
Same thing happened to me 3 weeks ago. Im done with Power Pro
Whatever "Uncle Cracker" , never seen a sockeye break braid:backlaugh:
__________________
"A leader is a man who can adapt principles to circumstances."
- General George S. Patton, Jr
Fishtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2011, 10:32 AM   #56
Reelamin
Steelhead
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NCW
Posts: 463
Default Re: Braided line fail...

I tried that FNF knot and it looked great but I was screwing it up for sure...broke super easy. Had to have been me...will keep practicing it. I prefer guess I have never tied my braid directly to my swivel. I always blood knot in a length of mono for a shock leader....I don't get breaks at the blood not or main line. Just seems to work for me. I have tried all kinds of knots and I go back to the polomar and clinch all the time.

When I softened up and lengthened my rods after switching to braid I landed a lot more fish. Just something else to consider in this bash on PP thread. LOL I have three bulk spools of PP, and will be ordering a new one this fall. LOVE THE STUFF!!! But I also love maxima...hate flourocarbon (can not tie knots that will work)..love mom, apple pie, and the United States of America.
__________________
The second ammendment was written for a very specific and real purpose.

Last edited by Reelamin; 07-09-2011 at 10:36 AM.
Reelamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2011, 12:08 PM   #57
onstep
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: willamette
Posts: 1,051
Default Re: Braided line fail...

50 power pro is what I run on my bouncers and spinner rods. No issues whatsoever. I use 30# maxima for dropper and it breaks before the braid. A week and half ago I fished 20# pp for tarpon, snooker, and redfish in Florida with zero issues. Most fish were hooked in mangrove tidal areas with tons of oyster beds and root systems to cut you off. For knots I use unis, albrights, and polamar.
To many of the best fisherman in the world use lines that are questionable on this site for me to trust what is being written in a thread when it comes to any brand line.
onstep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2011, 12:14 PM   #58
RiverJohn
King Salmon
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,146
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lost a nice Nook yesterday fishing Kwiks on the CR. 50 # Power Pro braid broke off cleanly above the swivel shortly after the take down / hook set.

Anyone else ever have an issue like this? This is the first time i have lost a fish like this. Line is brand new?
I lost a nook on braid once, since then I double the line on ALL knots.

No trouble since.

RiverJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2011, 12:58 PM   #59
eyeFISH
King Salmon
 
eyeFISH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,754
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelamin View Post
I tried that FNF knot and it looked great but I was screwing it up for sure...broke super easy. Had to have been me...will keep practicing it.
The way you tighten the knot has a LOT to do with the finished strength.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showpost....6&postcount=26
__________________
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg

Long Live the Kings!
eyeFISH.... The Keen Eye MD
eyeFISH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2011, 01:18 PM   #60
Boster
Chromer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: On the Columbia near county line
Posts: 670
Default Re: Braided line fail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny Business View Post
Lots of good information about the knots. As i mentioned before i have been tying the clinch knot forever and have never had a failure, knot slip or what ever you want to call it. That being said if there is a different knot that has a better hold ( Palomar for example ) then i am not against using that. I do not believe that this knot failed, it severed and severed cleanly. I have always tied the clinch because as Eyefish mentioned it was fast and idiot proof to tie and it has never failed me with either braid or mono. Might be time for me to change that though after hearing about the 30% failure mentioned above...
Clinch knot will fail under pressure it will come loose and look like a clean break on braid. It will hold up for small fish or hand test but will fail under heay pressure
Boster
Boster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Cast to



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:54 PM.

Terms of Service
Page generated in 1.00187 seconds with 80 queries