Salmon Poisoning and Dogs

letsfish · 11-19-2002, 08:16 AM

I think we should all take a moment and take stock in the situation that Jennies going through with Kilchies. Specifically do we put the dog in situations that the dog gets into fish. It is hard if you live by a stream with salmon decaying but we all have garbage and need to be careful of how we discard the guts and leftovers.
I know salmon can be bad with dogs, but I recall seeing some show about this guy who lived up in remote alaska (along the Yukon River) he would catch chum, freeze the fish whole in a snow bank or what ever and then feed them to his sled dogs all winter.Do some breeds have the ability not to get sick from salmon(do woves get sick from salmon)? Did the long freeze kill the it that did hurts the dogs?
If someone can explain the "nature of the beast" that affects dogs it would be appreciated.
Thanks and pray for Jennie and Kilchies

Silver Hilton · 11-19-2002, 08:25 AM

I don't know if the freezing kills the bugs, but I suspect that it does. Dogs get it around here from the very fresh, or at least non-frozen, dead salmon around here.

If your dog gets seriously sick a few days after a day at the river, salmon poisoning is a real possibility. I'd get the dog to a vet pretty quick.

Firedog · 11-19-2002, 08:35 AM

Letsfish, Alaskan Salmon don't have the parasite that causes Salmon poisoning in dogs. It is only present in Oregon and Wash and maybe the extreme southern end of BC. We have done a few threads on this lately because. My Dog has had it this year along with a few others. My vet told me that it isn't a guarantee they won't get it again either. Said it is very possible for a dog to get it everytime they eat fish. Best option is to keep them away from all raw Salmon and Stelehad.

The first signs of it are lethargy and lack of appetite. Then if you haven't caught it, it turns to Diarrhea and vomiting. The incubation period is about a week, so anytime from 5-10 days, if you see these signs get your dog to the vet right away. Also if you suspect they go t into fish take them in. treated with antibiotics it is easily cured if caught soon enough.

[ 11-19-2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: firedog ]

crabbait · 11-19-2002, 08:38 AM

Salmon poisoning is caused by a fluke (small parasite) that lives in the blood of the fish. They are present in northwest rivers but I do not believe they are found in Alaskan waters.

The fish picks up the fluke as a smolt and carries this parasite their entire lives. There are more than one type of fluke so a dog that has been exposed to one fluke may still become ill when ingesting salmon infected with another fluke (but not by re-ingesting the same fluke unless the dog is old or otherwise has an immune deficiency). Thorough cooking kills the fluke.

It only takes a drop of fresh blood to infect a dog. Antibiotic treatment should begin as soon as you are aware that the dog has been exposed (Tetracycline). Do not wait for symptoms to appear.

Symptoms include refusal to eat, malaise and vomiting. Get the dog to the vet immediately as soon as symptoms are present is you are unaware of exposure. Treatment may require intravenous hydration/feeding and could last for several days ($$$).

Treatment is generally successful if the infection is caught very early. Dogs that are allowed to stay sick for a day or two may not recover. The longer the dog has been sick (dehydration) the less chance for recovery.

When I take Nick on trips where exposure is likely I have Tetracycline along. Stop by the vet's office and explain that your dog may be exposed while fishing and that you would like to have the medicine on-hand and they will sell you the medication without paying for a vet visit (at least my vet will).

When Nick is along and we catch a fish, it is roped to the side of the boat while still in the net. We then remove the net and bleed the fish. After the fish has had plenty of time to bleed out completely it is moved from over-the-side into the fish box in one motion. Then we check to make sure no blood is in the boat (make sure you check the net).

Never allow your dog to roam boat ramps or docks where it is likely that blood will be present. The blood must be fairly fresh to have live flukes.

Nick is six and has been on countless trips and has been exposed but never came down with the infection (medicated for it twice).

Hope this helps.

[ 11-19-2002, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Gus Orviston · 11-19-2002, 09:18 AM

Question.

What about Bears...they are K9 family, are they prone to get salmon poisoning? I have never seen a bear in OR feeding on salmon in the upper river tributaries... has anybody ever see this in the NW?

gus

11-19-2002, 09:21 AM

This is a repeat but important. Get your dogs to the vet ASAP.

Crabbait and Fire dog are right about the bacteria (two species of rickettsia) not being in Alaska. They use a fluke as a host, the fluke use a snail as a host. Aren't parisites neat :shocked: . It's in N. California, Idaho and Montana too.

Gus,
Bears aren't K9's. They do become infested with tape worms from eating salmon but they aren't affected by rikettsia bacteria.

[ 11-19-2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

wetaline · 11-19-2002, 09:33 AM

Like Keta said the natural host is a snail.... My vet also went over some statistics w/ me (thought i'd get my money's worth out of the cost of the visit)... 9/10 of dogs brought in w/ the poisoning are from owners w/ river property or people that run their dogs on the river.... only 10% are from fisherman.. .his reasoning was this...
*native fish are much more likely to carry the parasite than a hatchery fish.
*He also said in most cases just licking the skin or slime from the fish isn't enough - they need to get into the meat and eat it, or into the kidney blood along the spine...

I highly recomend asking your vet - it was a very interesting conversation. hopefully what he was telling me was accurate... made me a lot more comfortable about my lab being on the boat..

Gus Orviston · 11-19-2002, 10:33 AM

thanks keta,,,mmmm must be K10s then :whazzup:

you learn something new everyday, or every other day at least [img]graemlins/program.gif[/img]

letsfish · 11-19-2002, 07:22 PM

Thanks everybody!! Not a dog owner personally, I still love the critters and the folks who care for them. Thank you for enlighting us all on this serious health issue with canines. "It's just a fluke" a common saying of trivality suddenly takes on new meaning-anything but trivial.
Thanks again folks.........
Jim

DownOnHisLuck · 11-19-2002, 07:32 PM

If it hasn't been said, steelhead carry the bugs
too. I cost my Buddy Mike a big vet bill when his big ol' great dane licked up the slime and minor blood scraped off of an already gutted winter fish... Jury's out IMO on the "immunity" gained by repeated exposure. My Bro n' Law's lab catches salmon, bites them, carries them around like footballs and never has gotten ill...

Jennie@ifish · 11-19-2002, 07:43 PM

It's interesting.
Most of the folks that live along rivers here purposely expose their dog to salmon poisoning at a time that is convenient for them to treat them.
It's just impossible to have a farm dog that helps with the cattle, alongside the river, and not have him exposed...
That said, we have a prescription for Tetracycline available at all times.
As soon as the salmon run, we are on watch!
Dee Dee got it the first year, and as soon as she showed signs of not wanting dinner, Poof! In goes the pill, and she was better the next day. If you catch it early, it's not bad.
I'll never forget, though, losing our dog, when I was a child, to salmon poisoning. It is an awful desease. They usually die of dehydration. It's heart wrenching to watch.
Not something I'd expose my dog to on purpose, if we didn't live here on the river.
Jen

The Bad Fish · 11-19-2002, 08:48 PM

like jennie said. if that chow hound of mine is not interested in what im eating something is wrong. i have a beagle and he is more interested in rolling in rotten deads on the bank than looking at fresh blood , still very serious stuff..

spinnermaker · 11-19-2002, 09:46 PM

Gus, Bears are members of the pig family.

First Bite · 11-19-2002, 11:29 PM

crabbait...excellent post.

A few years back I almost lost my Boxer to salmon poisoning. My Father-In-Law came by the house to show us his summer chinook from the Nehalem. Within a week our dog started getting sick. We had no idea what it was since I hadn't brought home any fish. Rushing our dog to the vet saved her life. All the dog had to do is lick the ground where drops of blood from the fish were. Definetly scary stuff.

Mark

TillamookChinook · 11-19-2002, 11:58 PM

I asked my sister about salmon poisoning in dogs. She manages the vet practice for her husband in Newport. I was curious because I had seen raw salmon fed to sled dogs in Alaska. As others have reported, she said the parasite is limited to the Northwest, mostly Oregon rivers. The condition is easily treated with antibiotics if caught early enough. If it progresses to the point where the dog is vomiting it is probably fatal. Contracting the disease once does not protect the dog from future exposure. A dog may or may not contract the disease on any given exposure. Just don't delay treatment if you see symptoms.