Time for Emergency Spawning Closure?

[garyk]

I’d like to suggest a thoughtful discussion on the following:

Is it time for ODFW to implement a temporary, emergency closure for Tillamook Bay rivers ABOVE tidewater?

Given current conditions, the rapidly ripening, early-to-mid portion of the returning chinook are going to be forced to spawn in abnormally shallow water and thus unusually vulnerable to harassment, snagging and legal take.

This early, first-half of the fall run has been heavily fished in the ocean, bay and tidewater. If intensive fishing continues on this early return cohort, are we taking too many and reducing future returns?

As sportsman, should we be petitioning ODFW for an emergency closure in order to ensure adequate escapement and successful spawning, and strong early returns in the future?

Where to draw the closure line? Highway 101 might be a good demarcation, as it is clearer than ‘top of tidewater’. Not perfect, but clear.

For how long? Until the rivers rise enough for these early fish to spawn. It could be a couple weeks. In any case the biological clock of these ripening fish is quickly ticking – their window of opportunity to spawn and propagate the chinook run we’ll be fishing for in 2005 is rapidly closing.

Some background points:

A. Fish biologists consistently report that Tillamook’s fall chinook are 90% wild spawned. We must have successful spawning to sustain this remarkable fishery.

B. Following the low water years of the early 1990's (which were very similar to conditions now and saw lots of tidewater fish taken), the chinook fishing took a dive.

C. Decades of concentrated pressure and unsustainable kill are a significant factor in why today wild coho and steelhead return later in the season. Basically, the early returning component of these run were fished-out.

On this board many of you, collectively, have hundreds of years of experience and knowledge about fishing Tillamook’s chinook, what do you think?

[ 10-25-2002, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: garyk ]

It may be something worth looking into. I would think if conditions remain the same the ODFW will be looking hard at this.

[TheRogue]

A closure of the rivers itself?? I think that would probably be a good idea. Anything that struggles its way up the little trickles shouldn't be hassled.

As for a tidewater closure, no, I don't support that. As I stated in another post, I'd rather see some intensive articles, news releases, etc., as well as a volunteer presence to explain to people the difference between a "good" fish, and an ugly boot. Color posters at the boat ramps and standard bankie spots...get enough people razzing someone about what a "boot" they've got on the end of the line, and they're much more likely to release it!!

B. Following the low water years of the early 1990's (which were very similar to conditions now and saw lots of tidewater fish taken), the chinook fishing took a dive.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I always attributed this to ocean conditions and poor smolt escape due to summer/fall conditions, rather than fishermen making an impact on the fish before they spawn. Interesting thought though!

TR

[TillamookChinook]

There were a lot of early spawners way up the Trask when I was there about a month ago, above Loren's Drift. Dozens and dozens spawning and also dozens already spawned out and dead in the river. I saw many more fish that day than on any day since. Maybe the early chinook have already spawned (?). On Friday last week there were only a few fish rolling in tidewater and none on the spawning beds above Loren's Drift. There were also only two other fishermen I saw all day.

I'm all for protecting the fish, but I did not see any throngs of fishers working over the fish.

I expect it will rain on a Tuesday, there will be a hundred local guys to fish over the fresh fish over the next couple of days, and the fish will have shot all the way up to the ridge of the Coast Range by the weekend. That's how I remember it works.

[Jennie@ifish]

I vote yes.
As much as I like this Fall fishing, and worry about the guides livings, I hate to see the fish be in jeapordy right now.
I spoke to an old timer about this the other day. He said, "We need to close down the bay!"
I believe, after speaking with him about it, that he may be right.
The upper river bobber fishing should also be closed.
I think it should be done on a day to day basis, until the rivers are higher.
Bill thinks it should be closed above Bay City upstream. PERIOD. That would cover The Kilchis, Wilson, and Trask. The fish are getting harassed in the rivers, too. He says, a lot of guys won't like that, but I have to agree too.
We should close the Nehalem at 101 and upstream too.
The Necanicum at the 12th street bridge and up.
The Nestucca at Pacific City Bridge.
The Miami at 101.
These are tough times. What we save now will be of benefit to all of us, later.
Jen

[ 10-25-2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Miss B Haven]

I would love to comment/vote on this, but I can't. It's been years since I have fished tidewater or the rivers for Chinook for a good reason, I'm biased (but if you just want my opinion - shut it down). [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Snakebite]

Today ODFW made an emergency closure of the Yachats river seaward of Hwy 101 due to the fact the potential spawners are holed up at the mouth. I would think that ODFW in other similar situations is looking seriously at the potential problem, and will close areas accordingly. My vote is the Salmon river seaward of the hatchery wier.
It'll never happen though there though. Too much politics! Oh, did I forget to mention that this is my personal opinion and I'm using my personal home computer to expound on this? Just gotta watch my back. Let 'em bite...go figure as to when and why they are going to do that????? That's fishing!

[Jennie@ifish]

Miss B found my new Graemlin! APPLAUSE!
[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[garyk]

Jennie said - "What we save now will be of benefit to all of us, later."

Great comment, I was trying to more clearly weave that precise thought into my initial post - thanks for writing more gooder than I was able to.

[Lund]

tillamook chinook,
Those salmon you saw spawning a month ago in the upper trask were springers. There are very few fall fish that will spawn before nov 1

As for closures of the tillamook rivers and bay, It should have been done years ago. Take all the guys fishing it and there are not enough fish to fill their tags. There are twice the fishermen as there is fish in that system. It cann't handle this pressure for too much longer or there will be no more fish.

[TheRogue]

As for closures of the tillamook rivers and bay, It should have been done years ago. Take all the guys fishing it and there are not enough fish to fill their tags. There are twice the fishermen as there is fish in that system. It cann't handle this pressure for too much longer or there will be no more fish.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Wow, now that's about the most off-the-wall thing I've read today!! :shocked: :shocked: I think he was looking for a little more realistic ideas??

TR

[MasterCaster]

I agree that something should be done.

What about closeing the rivers above tidewater until the rains get here, bringing the rivers up and closeing tidewater all but a couple days a week? Keeping tidewater open to some fishing on lets say tues and thurs and maybe Sat.? :whazzup:

Just another idea.

Something needs to be done though to ensure we have enough fish for the future.

Just my .02

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[Joe Schwab]

I'm all for the closure. Who are all these guys in expensive sleds sitting in tidewater holes using gobs of eggs to catch dark hens so they can get more eggs so they can catch more hens etc. etc? Does anyone out there know who they might be? Shut it down!!

[GutshotApe]

Snakebite -Is the Yachats situation a special case? What do the biologists think about the need for restrictions elsewhere? :whazzup:

[PapaHog]

I vote with Jen...

and that is something coming from me because bobber fishing in tidewater is my great love. However if we keep on as we are going it will disapear for ever.

Remember how many fish there were in the 70s and early 80s. Thirty forty fish or more days out of the hospital hole. Today 10 or 15 on a good day.

Something should be done now to save this for our grandchildren.

[crabbait]

I think we may be over reacting a bit to the lack of rain. Couple of reasons for this.

1. A bunch of the fish are still out in the ocean and have not even entered tidewater. As long as we do not have rain to spread the scent of fresh water to them they will probably stay there.

2. Fish that have been in tidewater for awhile and are getting fairly dark are not normally too interested in biting. As long as we limit techniques to those that do not routinely snag fish the impact on the fish that are ready to spawn is minimized.

3. We need to release fish that are too dark for the table. Keeping wild hens for eggs only is not responsible, in my opinion ( and, yes, I have released large hens this year).

4. Regardless of the number of boats we see on the rivers and bays, fishing success has not been that great so the number of fish that have been taken is down from some previous years when the runs were much smaller. How many would be saying close the rivers/bays if we just picked up two inches of rain and the bite was on? Not many I would guess.

In summary, any body of water that exposes fish to sight-snagging or is primarily used by snaggers due to depth or river size should be closed along with all spawning areas. Tidewater areas where fish stage should remain open and people should fish responsibly, including honoring the four fish in seven days restriction ( how do some of these guys fish everyday?).

There is still plenty of time and a lot of fish that are not stacked in tidewater. I appreciate the good intentions but think it is too early to panic. One good storm and tidewater will flush out in a hurry. We have all seen it happen before. Just my $.02.

[ 10-25-2002, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[TheRogue]

Thank you Crabbait, a voice of reason in the fog!!

While humans are definitely the most destructive thing on the planet, sometimes methinks we give ourselves a tad too much credit for causing disaster??!!??

TR

[PapaHog]

Crabbait: I hope you are right and you probably are right. However why does it seem that there are not as many fish in recent years if it is not pressure from fishing.

Could it have to do with ethics of the fisherman? Taken fish when it is legal and not ethical? Sight snagging? Better equipment and education thus more harvest?

Am I all wet? Just old bad memory? Maybe I only remember the good ol days coming home with fish and not the many days the skunk was on my line.

[Hawaiian Time]

Now let's not blame the smaller runs in the recent years only to the amount of fishing pressure that it has seen. Have we forgotten the horrible years of El Nino..or for that matter the major floods like 1996. Having recently been out fishing a few miles offshore, I can attest and agree with crabbait that there are still alots of fish yet to smell the rivers and make their journey home. Think of the financial impact to the communities if fishing were to be closed. Everything so far has been late so why not the fall run too. Let's not have a knee jerk response to the rain being late. HT

[Jennie@ifish]

I sincerely hope that you are all right.
I really do.
For the financial impact, for the fish's health, and for our future.
One thing that I find little giggles out of, however, is that every time a run is not of the expected size, I hear, "They are just late".
In July, I heard a guy say, "Oh, the springers are just late". :smile: :smile: :smile:
Now that is optimism!!!

I spoke with a guide last night that felt the same... That it isn't time yet.
Perhaps not, but if it doesn't rain in a week or so, I would expect it to be time soon!
Jen

[dogfishboy]

I'm with Crabbait on this one. Good points. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

My last couple of hens, out of the bay, have had huge eggs that were ready to pop.
Jen, we may need those redds signs for the Kilchis flats :whazzup:

[corrirod]

I've been fishing the in the ocean the last 2 weeks and all I've caught were next year's fish and based on what I have heard of the commercials, they are doing the same.

Where are all these fish that are going to be moving into the rivers? Well, I know where they're at, they're in snagwater, I mean tidewater. I've read several posts lately regarding "sorting thru boots" to find bright fish, does that sound like a healthy practice? Perhaps things are different in your rivers Rogue but from Newport to Astoria we've got problems.

They shut the forests down for lack of rain, they could certainly do the same for the fish.

[TheRogue]

I guess I just don't understand your point, Corridod?? What's wrong with sorting through the "boots" to get to the bright ones?? I hope you're not saying that catch and release on Chinook is bad?? They're much, much tougher than silvers and steelies...yet we have C&R fishing for them all the time!

TR

[OregonBankie]

About ten years ago, there was a series of drought years when it would not rain until November, and in one year not until December. The first rain brought in a ton of fish.

In my mind, I model the run in the river as a standard distribution over time, beginning in Oct, peaking in Nov, and concluding in Dec. The longer the fall rains wait, the more the run stacks up in the ocean/bay/tidewater. All those waiting fish enter the river at the first rain, instead of coming in spread out over the three months during a normal wet year. For example, the December year I mentioned, a big rain occured one day in December, the rivers rose, the chinooks were streaming upstream, and I hooked a personal best of 50 fish. The mix was bright and dark fish. There were very few (close to zero) fish in the river prior to the rain. In a wet year, I've caught chinooks in the river beginning in Oct, possibly Sept one year.

By "river," I'm referring to the flowing portion above tidewater.

As far as the 90% wild portion of chinooks in the Tillamook streams, an ODFW biologist at the NW Steelheaders meeting last week in Beaverton indicated the mix was closer to 50/50. I don't know whom to believe for this figure; maybe nobody knows.

[Busy]

Help me out on this one....WDFW has closed all rivers on the OlyPen because of low water conditions already. I have been reading about low water conditions on some of the rivers in Oregon.....Does the low water condition hold true for he whole state of Oregon? Do the salmon return later in Oregon than in Washington?....( sorry about this last one, I am pretty new to salmon fishing and am not sure of the answer). To me if the fish are not able to get to the normal spawning grounds, won't there be less survival rate among the young due to washout conditions etc? It would seem to make good sense to act now rather than later, especiall with mild weather expected for another week.

By the way...After sport fishing was closed on the Quillute River, the Quillute tribe continued to net fish in the low water conditions....even to the point of 'herding' them with their boats and hitting the water with sticks to drive them into the nets( caught on film). Enough news pressure was brought to bear after many local fishermen and guides complained about the practice that they have pulled the nets from the water! It seems that when it comes to brass tacks we fishermen can get together and fight for the same cause. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[TheRogue]

Busy...I guess my thinking is that its a little different situation. Down here, the fish simply CAN'T get into the river itself, period. They're kegged up in tidewater, not small deep holes like some of the larger rivers on the Oly Penn.

If it was the same situation, I'd be all for it!

TR

[k9jeff]

Give it another week or two to see if the weather changes. If we get some rain, it will come alive on the coast. the dark ones will head up and the new ones will come into the river from the ocean. It will only take a couple of days of decent rain. I waxed my car,, that is good for a couple of inches.

If we dont have some good rain by the first week of november, I would start to take action, but not until then.

It is a long way from KF but if the fish need the protection do it.

[fishlessinoregon]

Instead of closing it how about doing somthing like they did on the Deschutes, make certain days boats can fish the bay and rivers and certain days people can fish from the bank. This would still allow people to fish but take some of the pressure off of the fish.

[Tillamook Slugger]

My opinion: Don't panic, rivers will have plenty of water within the next month. There has been excellent fishing in the ocean outside T-Bay since July, large numbers of BIG fish. These fish will wait for the rains. I think if rains don't come in time many may not return this year and come back even BIGGER next year!! Last week my partner brought in two hens from the ocean, long but slim (38", 18#) hard battling fish with TINY egg skeins. In any case when the rain hits, hold your rod and be ready... We'll be sticking our nose into the ocean tomorrow (hopefully) and looking for some fresh sluggo's...

[Jennie@ifish]

Everyone has opinions...
One thing I know for certain:

When (and if!) it does rain, we are going to need tons of volunteer help at the hatcheries taking care of the silvers.

Perhaps also with the salmon nutrient program.
I'll be taking names of parties interested, if you would like to e mail me.
You have to be ready to help at the last minute, or whenever they show up, so keep that in mind.

e mail jennie@ifish.net

[garyk]

Jennie asked:

“ Are there statistics available to prove these statements true?

B. Following the low water years of the early 1990's (which were very similar to conditions now and saw lots of tidewater fish taken), the chinook fishing took a dive.

C. Decades of concentrated pressure and unsustainable kill are a significant factor in why today wild coho and steelhead return later in the season. Basically, the early returning component of these run were fished-out.”

Regarding B. That’s my personal, unscientific observation. We hammered the fish kegged up in the Tillamook River as they waited for sufficient water. Subsequent years the fishing was poor. As I think as The Rogue stated early, those following years also saw poor ocean conditions, that was certainly a contributing and likely primary factor. Still in all, killing as many as we did was another downward pressure on the population.

Are we sure ocean conditions won’t turn south between now and when this year’s progeny return in 2005?

Regarding C. I’ll try to find it in print. The issue comes up again and again as biologists examine the life histories of coastal salmon/steelhead.

OregonBankie said – “As far as the 90% wild portion of chinooks in the Tillamook streams, an ODFW biologist at the NW Steelheaders meeting last week in Beaverton indicated the mix was closer to 50/50.”

Are you sure he wasn’t speaking of steelhead? The 90% figure I quoted comes from Tillamook area ODFW biologist Rick Klumph and his predecessors, and published reports. Who was the bio at that meeting, I would like to have a conversation with him?

Finally, yes there’s lots of chinook in the ocean. These are the mid to late returning fish - there will almost certainly be enough water for them in later November and December. I wanted to get this discussion going to help spotlight the trouble the early returning cohort ‘MAY’ be in.

What's happening up on the Olympic Penninsula should certainly give us pause to consider how we're managing the same low water situation here.

Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful opinions.

[Joe]

I really don't see the lack of rain as the problem. The fish don't spawn until mid November. I bet we get rain in time and I will be wishing for a drought before long.

The only real difference this year is that the fish are still being caught in tidewater instead of holding up in the upriver holes. Either way somebody is trying to catch them. Either way some people are going to kill black fish. Personally I have yet to put even a bronze fish in my boat and I really never started fishing Tidewater until mid October.

My personal opinion is that the annual bag limit on Wild Fall Chinook should be lower. I think four or five fish each should be enough if it helped ensure strong runs in the future. I understand that on the Kenia you can only kill two fish a year.

I am all for filling the freezer with fish but that is what hatchery fish are for. :smile:

Just my opinion.

[fishbait]

Man O Man,

Don't get so excited. There are not alot of fish in the tidewater sections of the Tillamook rivers at this point, I know , I'v been on these rivers 2 -3 days a week for the last two weeks. We haven't even had the first flush yet. On the earlier rivers Track & tillamook the main run is just starting to enter the river and the Wilson fish are still a week or more away. We'll get a little rain and the dark fish in the rivers now will get a chance to get up the creek and the rest of the fish will show up. I've seen it before many times and we will se it again.............. The last thing we need is for "emergency" closures when there is no emergency. And as for fishing pressure, although I did not fish today, I did check out the ramp ar 5th street, there were only about 3 rigs in theupper parking lot. When catching is slow as it has been/ is the fishing pressure takes care of itself. Heck, over half the people I see are lucky if they catch a salmon or two all season. If you want to really do something to help out these runs, focus on the spawning and rearing habitat. Get laws passed to stop clear cutting areas where silt washes into the streams and chokes out the gravel. Fix the fences so the cattle don't decimate the stream banks (mostly accomplished ) and participate in the carcus dumps that put the nutrients back inthe the ecosystem that we have been removing for decades. And if you havent done so already, read Lichensteins book...........

[crabbait]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Fishbait.

[Jennie@ifish]

Are there statistics available to prove these statements true?

B. Following the low water years of the early 1990's (which were very similar to conditions now and saw lots of tidewater fish taken), the chinook fishing took a dive.

C. Decades of concentrated pressure and unsustainable kill are a significant factor in why today wild coho and steelhead return later in the season. Basically, the early returning component of these run were fished-out.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">If B is true, then....???

Is this a worse drought then we have seen?

Jen

[Jennie@ifish]

Do you mean Lichatowich?
"Salmon Without Rivers?"
You can buy it here, and it's on sale.
Plus, you'll be helping to support ifish!
Click here
Neat guy... I have an autographed copy.

Jen

[ 10-27-2002, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Miss B Haven]

Tillamook Slugger - Those fish with the big mature eggs will not wait until next year to return. They will die, whether they can get up the river and spawn or spawn in tidewater! :shocked:
Those fish with the tiny little eggs are next year and year after returning fish. THey are not coming into the river this year regardless of rainfall. They are "feeders" not "spawners"! :smile:

[TheRogue]

Miss B.....I have always understood that the eggs only form in the year that the fish are going to spawn, and that any fish you catch in the ocean with eggs/sperm sacks are headed to the river that year. I'll look/ask around also, but could you get some confirmation on your statement of:

Those fish with the tiny little eggs are next year and year after returning fish. THey are not coming into the river this year regardless of rainfall. They are "feeders" not "spawners"!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Thanx,

TR

[ 10-27-2002, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[BUGLEMAN]

Garyk those fish aren't going to dump thier eggs in the lower river. Don't go get in a real panic and screwing up the regs. just in time for the rains.

[brushpuppy]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !
C'mon every body,LISTEN TO YOUR-SELVES !!!!
Do you REALLY need the Oregon Department of Wildlife to tell you to stop fishing ?
If you think you may be contributing to the depletion of future fish stocks, and that fact bothers you, then stop what you're doing.

Anyway, one good rain and this whole discourse becomes a moot point. In the mean time, leave the spawners (and their redds) alone, pack out your trash, and if you see somebody snagging, put a 3/0 in their side and ask them how it feels (that is known as a 'bank bump'). Enjoy the day.

[ 10-27-2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: brushpuppy ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Brush puppy?
We are having what I considered a very good and educational discussion.
What should we listen to? Who is getting upset or ... what are you brushed about?
I'm really enjoying this thread, and... learning too! :smile:

So far, I'd say the majority really doesn't think it's a good idea for a closure. So, this is a good thing, isn't it?
I'm going to talk to Rick Klumph tomorrow about this, and the spawning signs for the Kilchis.
This is what ifish is all about, to collect people's opinions. People who know, who are out there, who have fished their whole lives.
I'm personally very glad we shouldn't shut it down. Think I want to stop fishing? :smile: :smile:
Jen

[ 10-27-2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Flatfish]

I think the bigger picture is ocean conditions when the fish get there.And how much rain we get to push the smolts out.Unless those factors are in place(something that is totally out of our hands)we cannot stockpile fish.Fish have spawned in all the various conditions that mother nature can throw at them. And survived for thousands of generations.
If you think tidewater is busy or some anglers unethical,wait another 20 years after the population here grows even larger and the fish are hit that much harder.Ever fish a Seattle area river?Snaggers?Hey if we all police the waters and call the police when we see something illegal,they will go away.Or at the very least shrink in numbers.
Sorry folks, I care about the resource but I think a closure is overthinking a simple situation that will be solved before the ODFW ever gets to it.If you have some complaints to file with the weather,call God.
Mark and the Midnight Feathered Express.

[SteelieSteve]

No need to get all excited about a dry October. We have had many below normal rain fall seasons in the last decade and the fish continue their returns every year. November always brings rainfall and the Salmon move up river and spawn. Only trouble with dry Octobers is that the fisherpersons don't get to have their fill of returning bright fish in upper tidewater and upriver.

[garyk]

Jennie asked about the '90% wild statistic' as it related to Tillamook basin chinook.

The latest source would be the Oct/Nov issue of STS, Bob Russell's article on Oregon Chinook, p.92. Russell appears to be quoting ODFW biologist Robert Bradley and offers --

"The state estimates that only ten to fifteen percent of fall chinook returning to North Coast rivers are of hatchery origin."

One further note on protecting spawning fish especially as it pertains to new signs on the Kilchis. I see in the ODFW fishing regulations that on the Sandy River, Oxbow Park, the signs placed to protect chinook spawning are not suggestions, but are actual closures.

[kodiakfisher]

I think we could all learn something from the Alaska Department of fish and game. They have weirs put on a few rivers to monitor the numbers of fish moving into spawning areas. The also have a cutoff that you can't fish above "x" marker or place until a sustainable number of fish have reached their spawning areas. I am speaking of the coho fishing on Kodiak Island. You can't fish above the road system in our case it could be Hwy 101. The fish and game sets a number of fish that have to reach a certain point (weir) to sustain the salmon run. Once the number is reached they open up the whole river for fishing by this time the mix of fish bright and dark is such that the bright ones or more aggressive and caught with higher frequency. The fish and game has been doing the as long as I can remember and even with the increased fishing pressure (tourism) the quality and quantity of fishing hasn't changed even in the dry years. This way some early fish get a chance to spawn undisturbed.

Kodiakfisher.

[brushpuppy]

Jen, you're right.
This is a very educational discussion in an area that we, as harvesters of this resource, need to better understand so as to better protect it.
I find it unfortunate that ODFW gets put in the position of protecting the fish from the anglers (i.e.'Bear Creek','The Dam Hole'etc.) and wish they could focus their efforts more on enhancing and sustaining the fisheries for all.
A strict closure of Tillamook streams won't get the fish upriver any faster and won't stop the taking of fish, still in the ocean, that will be entering the river systems under more favorable conditions.
Maybe, as some have suggested, a future management plan of harvest days or boats on the water days should be considered for the future?
Similar regulations have worked well on the salmon fisheries in the Columbia and Willamette systems to the effect that we the anglers complied thru the lean years of closures and quotas and have enjoyed a resurgence of fish stocks and a re-establishment of traditional fishing seasons.
We can be taught new tricks (i.e. barbless hooks, releasing wild fish) and it's up to us to protect that which we love dearly.
For more insight of how the ODFW can operate in our favor, keep an eye on the Sandy River and the removal of the Marmot and Little Sandy Dams. They intend all hatchery steelhead to be taken from native brood stock opening up the entire river system again to both the fish and the anglers.
Back to the Tillamook situation, It's up to us to do whats best for the fish. If that means leave 'em alone for a week or two then leave 'em alone. I think your spawning ground markers are spot on for the kind of grass roots awareness that will help sustain these fisheries.


Don't forget, pack out your trash (I always bring along extra bags for every body elses) and enjoy the day.

[garyk]

Another dry week has gone by with no significant rain in the forecast, and the rivers are a trickle.

Anyone have information from the North Coast ODFW bio's as to whether they're concerned?

The N.Fk.Nehalem hatchery information line is still playing their Oct.6th message, which I would take to mean that no silvers returned for the month of October -- that is extraordinary! I'd like to know when or even if that's ever happened before?

[foxer]

Read todays Oregonian in the sports section. Doesnt look good

[Bill Monroe]

Actually, what it says from Steve King is that the rain will come; the fish are resilient and things will be fine with a little patience...I don't, however, write headlines and that one was a little misleading...We have some rivers with problems, but ODFW doesn't think Tillamook rivers are among them yet...

[garyk]

I'm trying to keep my skepticism in check, but 'patience' and 'hope' are not my choice of management principles when it comes to Tillamook's trophy chinook fishery, and ensuring its healthy future.

Over and over, we find ourselves or ODFW reacting when the situation finally becomes a crisis, other options foreclosed, and the damage done. (Followed by 20/20 hindsight and finger-pointing)

Shouldn't for once we take the conservative route and get out ahead of the situation, taking action before it becomes a crisis?