Yet another sturgeon question

CATCH AND EAT · 10-24-2002, 12:00 PM

Use a larger barbless hook. This is a distractant to the little fish from what I have found. I don't get many that swallow it. Must be my cracker reflex or something.

Hogmaster · 10-24-2002, 12:03 PM

Chacal -

If they are swallowing the hook you need to use bigger hooks!

If the hooks are barbless we have found a quick twist will usually get them off without having to lift them. If you do need to lift them (STG keep me honest) I believe the little ones seldom get hurt.

41 incher? Just wait until you measure a 41 3/4 incher!

:grin:

:grin:

Pilar · 10-24-2002, 12:04 PM

Chacal, on the smaller fish there is less concern for removing them from the water.

Anyone who has fished for these brutes knows they are pretty tough in the smaller sizes. I often catch shakers with 3 or 4 hook holes in their lip. The big fish >6' have real problems out of the water because their heavy internal organs are not well supported and can tear loose when you lift them out of the water.

If the hook is down the throat then you may have to bring it in your boat. Usually I pin the fish between my chest and left arm with the head end up. Be careful not to squeeze very hard. Work the hook loose with your tool and if it wont come out cut the leader as short as you can. Removing the hook does little good if the fish is bleeding badly afterwards. Try not to lift by the tail or to stick your fingers or hands inside the gill covers.

Be careful not to let the shaker thrash around inside your boat and watch out for the scutes (spines) cause they are pretty sharp on the small fish.

Sturgeon 42 is right about paying attention. The little guys will hook themselves, usually by swallowing your rig. This makes release difficult at best. Hemostats or the various hook removal tools used by bassers will work to get the hook undone.

Once you get used to catching the fish on the first bite, often release is as simple as grabbing the hook by the curve and pulling it out right in the water. Rolling the fish on its back calms the large peelers but I'm not sure about the little ones.

Pay attention to that first answer to your post. The big fish bite very softly and those are worth paying attention for. That BANG BANG BANG bite is a shaker every time.

The hook size should be barbless 6/0 and up. We use 11/0 for big daddy!

[ 10-24-2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

OceanBlue · 10-24-2002, 12:10 PM

Chacal, My deepest sympathies. My very first sturgeon was 41.75 inches. I know how you feel. The rest we caught that day were shakers. The river was crowded that day or we would have moved out of Shakerville.

Chacal · 10-24-2002, 12:36 PM

Each week my father catches a keeper and I am stuck with three tiny fish (and even a yellow pirch)!!!

Same bait.

Same rigging.

I think the fish just feel sorry for him. :smile:

Chacal

Tacklebuster · 10-24-2002, 12:40 PM

I use 4/0 Barbless hooks for everywhere but the Gorge. I have never had a problem releasing or deep hooking any shakers. I don't know what you use for a rod but I use a light Salmon rod with a soft tip everywhere but the Gorge. The small rod will allow you to detect the lightest bites which are usually your bigger ones. Don't let the fish eat it too long. As soon as you feel him/her walk away or get steady pressure for a second, put the hammer down. You can pick the little guys out of the water, don't hurt em a bit.....

roadsend · 10-24-2002, 12:57 PM

If the hook is deep cut the leader short; hooks are cheap, sturgeon are precious.
Do not use stainless hooks. Use hooks which will eventually disintegrate.

ReelMcCoy · 10-24-2002, 01:12 PM

I wanted to add that sturgeon when turned upside down tend to give up all fight. As to those shackers that float away on there backs they eventually realize they are no longer hooked and turn over and swim away.

If I have to remove one from the water I too lift them by grabbing the tail. It is also a good way to get a large blood sample to check your glucose levels if your diabetic.

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 01:14 PM

You guys make it to difficult. I have caught thousands of sturgeon and never had a floater. Pick them up how you want, twist out the hook, and throw them back in. You can catch them again an hour later. You can't hurt a shaker. THere is no reason to use anything less than a 6/0 unless you are targeting shakers. That might be your problem.

Pilar · 10-24-2002, 02:41 PM

Yep, as I said above the dang things are pretty tough. The only concern about the tail is the sharp scutes and hard edges on the tail flukes will cut the unaware. Also you could damage the fish if you yanked on the tail hard enough. Remember the backbone is a rubbery cartilage and will stretch if you pull hard enough.

Have fun!

PS: Jen, get over the catch and release thing for the gators anyway. The shaker to keeper ratio varies depending on location and time of year. It can be like 30 to 1 at times. That's a lot of catch and release ...... :grin:

Chacal · 10-24-2002, 02:52 PM

You mean with that "rubbery cartlidge" I clould have stretched out that 41" and made him a thin 45" fish?

:tongue:

OceanBlue · 10-24-2002, 02:55 PM

I so prefer Fillet and Release! :grin:

onebuck · 10-24-2002, 03:23 PM

41.75" is painful....60.5" almost hurts worse!

fishingfirst · 10-24-2002, 03:30 PM

8' hurts really bad, hurts the arms, hurts the back, hurts the legs......great for the smile though! :smile:

Scott

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 03:50 PM

Pick them up around the body behind the pectoral fins (big ones in the front) from the top of the fish. Don't squeeze too hard, just a firm grip. Remove the hook if you can, if you can't, cut as much leader off as possible and release the fish. Keep your hands out of the gills and eyes and DON'T just yank the hook out (Bluewater). Sturgeon die slowly. Just because you don't see floaters while you fish doesn't mean you haven't done mortal damage. These are a precious animals that are having tighter and tighter restrictions put on them to make sure we have some in the future. Do your part and treat them well in the pursuit of your fishing pleasure.

[ 10-24-2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

Dipnet · 10-24-2002, 08:45 PM

Chacal where were you fishing if you don't mind me asking? If you don't want to answer here please email me. Thanks!

Pitch Pocket · 10-24-2002, 08:57 PM

I like the tailer. It is a positive grab on the tail wrist and you lift them up and into the boat. Measure them and throw the small ones back. Barbless hooks come out easily even if you have to put your hand in their mouth to get it. If you can't get it out, cut the dacron and leave it. Not my preferred method, because I think those hooks go into their stomach and ultimately out their anal vent. That's gotta hurt.
:shocked:

They are tough, but I like to handle them as little as possible. Never had a floater that I hooked, but I did find one floating by that we were able to revive after it had been belly up for a while. I thought it was a gonner, but it perked up and swam away.

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 09:27 PM

I never said "yank" the hook out stgrule. I said twist it our just like you have to with any hook. You are talking like I abuse the fish. If you have caught enough sturgeon in your life you know that you just have to take the hook out and drop it back in the water from a few iches to a foot to make sure they kick off and don't end upside down. They aren't going to die slow or die at all from that. All I am saying is that as long as you don't abuse the fish they will be fine. This is if you have the right gear. eg. Big enough hook so shakers can't swallow it, barbless hook, etc. There is no need to be a drama queen about it. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 09:32 PM

I guess I should clarify that I was talking about the little ones. The reason for lifting them from the top is you are less likely to harm internal organs if you are holding the fish by muscle tissue. Larger fish can be lifted by the tail with a hand supporting the stomach area. Sturgeon do have a protective slime coat so try not to handle them too much. If you can get the hook out of small fish without taking it out of the water, so much the better. Sometimes the small ones will calm down like the big ones if they are turned over. Other times they just thrash more.

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 09:36 PM

"Twisting" out the hook implies tearing tissue. same as yanking. Backing the hook out may be what you meant but was not what you said. I can and will be all the drama queen I want when it comes to sturgeon. We can discuss why later.

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 09:38 PM

stgrule. Since you are from the oak grove area do you fish the Willamette much for sturgeon? The only other people besides me that I have seen fish that area very much for sturgeon are guys in a bass boat or guys in a sled with a fishing top. Is that you?

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 09:46 PM

No, I do sturgeon research and have since 1991. I have handled thousands of sturgeon on the Rogue River, the Umpqua, the Willamette and the Columbia up to the Canadian border. This is my work and my passion. :grin:

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 09:48 PM

I can't see any guy wanting to be a queen but we don't need to argue anymore. I think that we are misunderstanding each other. I can assure you that I take good care of my fish no matter how I word what I say. Maybe you think that I am one of those guys that throws a fish in like a fastball or someone that mishandles fish like I have seen. I am just saying that with common sense you can take the hook out and release the fish without any side effects.

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 09:52 PM

How do you catch the fish to research them? Who do you work for? What are you checking for?

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 09:54 PM

Since I'm not a "guy" the drama queen fits just fine. I only took umbrage at "You can't hurt a shaker", yes you can.

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 09:59 PM

I work for the ODFW. We use a lot of different gear to catch sturgeon depending on where we are trying to catch them. Mostly we use use pickled squid baited long lines with circle hooks.
We are generaly doing population estimates with some work at mitigation for lost production due to dam operations.

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 10:00 PM

Like I said "with a little common sense". Sorry about assuming you were a "guy". That was sexist of me. But you have to admit that it isn't rocket science on how to release a sturgeon.

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 10:04 PM

As long as your careful, anything is easy.

PapaHog · 10-24-2002, 10:06 PM

[img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 10:06 PM

So have you done any work in the oak grove area on the W. That is my favorite spot to fish when the Col. is closed. I haven't been out there because I have been in the ocean all summer and fall. I don't think that there is enough current to fish or enough fish there this time of year. I used to live on River Forest lake by the OG boat ramp. Have fished the lake for carp and river for sturgeon hundreds of times. Do you work that area of the W?

Blue Water 23 · 10-24-2002, 10:08 PM

It almost seems like were married doesn't it Ace?

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 10:16 PM

ACE KING SUITED : :tongue:
Blue Water: I don't believe in bigamy. :grin:

We have only caught sturgeon in those areas as incidental catches during other work out of our office. The City of Portland may be contracting some work in the Willamette to target sturgeon in the next couple of years.

My husband and his fishing buddy fish for sturgeon at the falls when salmon and steelhead is slow. I don't fish for them very often for fun, I get paid to do it at work.

[ 10-24-2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

Point-of-Sale Clerk · 10-24-2002, 10:23 PM

Blue water

Ace king

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/...s/AllRpt00.pdf

STG lives for this stuff

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 10:30 PM

***: Indeed I do.

Point-of-Sale Clerk · 10-24-2002, 10:37 PM

:grin: :grin: :grin:

STGRule · 10-24-2002, 10:41 PM

***; Have you been poking around where your not welcome? Your signature?

Point-of-Sale Clerk · 10-24-2002, 10:52 PM

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Chacal · 10-24-2002, 11:43 PM

I have been out sturgeon fishing quite a bit lately and I have a question.

When I catch a shaker (sturgeon that is a foot long if it is lucky) how do I release it? I know it isn't good to take them out of the water, but the things move so fast that it is difficult to release them.

Of course they swallow the hook, so it doesn't make it any easier.

How do you release your sturgeon? Do you lift them out of the water if they are hooked really good? Is this bad for the fish?

We caught a 41 incher on Saturday and I was heartbroken -- 41!!! We measured it several times and then released it.

I don't want to do damage to the fishery, but at the same time I love catching them. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chacal.

Sturgeon 42 · 10-24-2002, 11:49 PM

Watch your pole carefully and when you see the bite pick up the pole and feel them pick up the bait and start to walk away , then pull gently against the bite this will cause them to drop the bait or you will hook them in the lip. I use barbless hooks where I fish on the Willamette because it is easier to release any that are shakers....Always use sliding weights.... :grin: :grin: :grin:

Miss B Haven · 10-24-2002, 11:54 PM

Chacal - they are tough fish. They don't have scales and slime that protect them like salmon. I don't believe it hurts small fish to be out of the water. Easiest way on the little ones is to lift them by the tail (actually their tail wrist) wit hone hand and remove the hook with the other, keeping them hanging upside down over the water. That way if they slip they land in the water.
The just under legals can be done the same way, but it may take two people depending on hw tough you are and how fat the fish is. You may need both hands tto hold the fish upright. JMHO :smile:
By the way, this is likely to cause a stir, but we discovered early that if you gently release a small sturgeon they don't seem to do as well as if you kinda shoot them back into the water. We had a couple floaters until we started releasing them with some oomph (kind of a head first kickstart). :grin:

hey-it's-me · 10-24-2002, 11:57 PM

chacal,
did you find the sturg holes in the channel? it's purty fun in there,huh?

Chacal · 10-24-2002, 11:57 PM

To date we have had no floaters, so I guess we aren't doing that much damage then....

Chacal.

Sturgeon 42 · 10-25-2002, 06:17 AM

I have caught many tagged Sturgeon from Blind Slough in the lower Willamette during Spring Salmon season do you do the tagging or is it the Washington people... :grin: :grin: :grin:

SHLEPROCK · 10-25-2002, 04:52 PM

Chacal, If I can not easily release a small shaker in the water I just grab them by the back of the head with one hand and push the hook back with my finger and pull the hook out backwards. On bigger fish I use one those cheap plastic hook extracters (name?) It is a two peson job and does not always work but I give it my best because I do not like leave the hooks in them but sometimes you have too.I have caught fish with rigs left in them and they looked to be in poor health :depressed:

STGRule · 10-25-2002, 05:13 PM

Sturgeon 42: Washington does the tagging and population estimate for the Columbia below Bonneville Dam. ODFW does some of the tagging out of Columbia River Management office. If the tags are orange, they are WA's if they are yellow, they are ours. The tags have an address on them and if you send in the tag number (don't remove the tags if you are not keeping the fish) and you can get the tagging information.