Pictures of Native Springers on Ifish

[Jennie@ifish]

Please, please, please...I would like to encourage people that would like to take pictures of native springers, take it while the fish is still in the water, ONLY IF you feel you have time!!!
I can't emphasize this enough!
It's just not worth risking the life of a springer to hold it out of the water, while everyone waits for the digital camera to boot up, and everyone smiles for the camera.
Thanks,
Jen

[Lucky Bamboo]

Good point, Jen! Just about the same as a fish holding us underwater for that length of time. :shocked:

[Joe Schwab]

I've posted about this before. It is a bad practice even if you think you know how to handle fish. I got used to releasing them in the water in Alaska where it is the law. Take a King out of the water there and you just bought it. I don't even net natives anymore. A good long needle nose with a wrist strap attached will remove any hook alongside the boat. Haven't had one belly up fish. Also the clam style end cutters will snap any hook in half if it is too difficult to remove.

Take their picture in the water, wave goodbye and wish them well.

[Firedog]

No reason to take them out of the water or even net them. Lean over the side and grab the hooks with pliers or just cut the hooks and let them go on thier way. Use a rag or cotton glove if you have to grab the fish by the tail to control him but not usually needed.

[Pete]

Several years ago I read a study done on survivability / mortality of trout released after exercise (read that, fighting against a rod and line). I wish I could find similar science on salmon, but I haven't been able to. I offer this as a suggestion that removing fish from the water is harmful, but I can't provide assurance that it extends from trout to salmon ...

R. A. Ferguson and B. L. Tufts of Queen's University in Ontario, Canada, did a study of the mortality of rainbow trout which were exposed to air after exhaustive exercise. The study shows "In both commerical and recreational fisheries, exhaustive exercise is often followed by a brief period of air exposure prior to release. During this time, the gills' delicate lamellae will collapse and gas exchange may be largely inhibited." The study showed that even fish exposed to the air for 60 seconds "initially appeared to be returning to normal, but the animals died between 4 and 12 hours later. This delayed mortality has been observed by other investigators and, in the wild, could give the false impression that released fish always survive."



"Only 28% of those fish which were exposed to air for 60 seconds survived the next 12 hours as compared with 88% of those fish which were only exercised." The study clearly shows that "the brief period of air exposure which commonly occurs in many catch and release fisheries is an important additional stress in an exhausted fish and may ultimately have a significant impact on the number of released fish which survive."

Leave fish in the water if you aren't going to bonk them!

[ 04-06-2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]

[number1 G.I.]

Excellent point! Being somewhat new to IFish but not to salmon fishing, I had wondered about all the pics of 'nates seen here. I release as described earlier...pliers over the side, no net. My understanding being that of "releasing unharmed". Got lots of practice on silvers out in the salt.

[Kruechief]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Thank you for the information.

Krue

[STGRule]

At the bottom of a bunch of the pages in the fishing regs is the following sentence.
All trout, salmon and steelhead that are released must be unharmed and should not be removed from the water.

[night stocker]

exellent point!on the john day arm,it is unlawfull to take a native steelhead out of the water.seems like it would be a good idea state wide.i might get flamed but this is my 2 cents.people will say it doesn't hurt the fish,but bringing them out of the water can't do them any good.

[Gun Rod Bow]

I agree that in the water pic is fine (and perhaps should be considered policy) and keeping them in the water is the correct this to do.

I just have to disagree with one thing, I do not think it is safe or smart to remove quick-fish hooks without the fish being in a net.

My M/O is to net the fish, hold along side boat, remove hooks through the net, then dip the net and let the fish swim away.

On bait rigs like prawns or herring with single hooks, I'll reach down and pull them with pliers. NO WAY ON QUICKIES.

This is M/O in Alaska, it is the safe way. It get's the fish released way faster.

It will happen that someone trying to pull a hook on a fish in the water will get a hook burried in their hand while the fish flops and jerks.

JMHO

GRB

[Tyeebuster]

Thanks Jen!!

I fully agree that IFishers are setting a bad example by removing fish from the water to photograph them. Again, it is our duty to do everything possible to handle and manage the resource wisely, even if the ODFW has a hard time of it.

As for netting, I would propose that ALL fisherman exchange the treble hooks on their Kwick Fish and replace them with siwash hooks. I have used them for the last 3 seasons and never find a need to net a fish in order to release it. I have a rubberized glove I wear to grab the plug in one hand and use pliers to remove the hook as described by Captain Hook above. All of the hooks are hung on a swivel so the fish can twist and turn without effecting me. As a side benifit, I seem to hook more fish with the singles over trebles and loose less! However, even if the hook percentage is less, I feel we owe it to the fish to handle them with due care.

As food for thought, maybe a regulation change to single barbless hooks for ALL plugs would be in order to protect the native fish population!

[David Johnson]

Bruce,

I have the scars on my hands to prove it...

It will happen that someone trying to pull a hook on a fish in the water will get a hook burried in their hand while the fish flops and jerks.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I pretty much never remove a salmon from the water that's going to be released unless we can pull over to shore and do a nice shoreside photo and release.

For all who have been on a trip with me you know that I release a fish without picture if it's not safe for either party and if we do get pics I keep the fish in the water right up until evdryone is ready and then it's a quick pickup, photo and release-much less time out of the water than when I have worked with/handled fish in a hatchery.

[Ramstrong]

I think these fish are more durable than people are giving credit for. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I seem to recall a few years ago when the ODFW was considering the spring chinook CnR season, they performed mortality studies by catching fish at Willamette falls, tagging them and then letting them return on their journey. Some of these fish were deliberately "mistreated". And yet the survival #'s were still quite high.

I wouldn't trust any study coming from the great lakes with the bathtub water they have. As long as water temps are under 58-60, if you properly treat a fish, they should do fine. I don't think anyone should be berated for getting a quick grip and grin. The key is getting everything ready for the photo ahead of time and tring to keep the fish out of the water for no more then 30 seconds. Then, properly revive the fish prior to release. Besides most of those upriver Columbia fish are of hatchery origin and unclipped.

On Thursday I caught a beauty of a nate on Big C, it inhaled the spinner and was hooked in the gills. It was bleeding horribly, after removing the hook the fish was bleeding horribly and wouldn't stop when in the water. I tried a revival method Thumper had suggested earlier (holding the fish out of the water for 30 seconds to help the clotting process.) A picture was taken while we were waiting. That seemed to help the bleeding, but I think it may have been too little too late for that fish. It was very sad watching it swim away with little chance for survival, I removed it from the water for an extended period of time on purpose to try and save it's life.

Most nates I catch are out of the water for no more than a few seconds though. I'm not ashamed to do it because I know I don't mistreat fish. Shaming all people who remove fish from water is like calling people that fish corky and yarn snaggers. Just because there are a few bad apples. It doesn't mean the whole bushel is rotten.

[Drachir]

All unclipped fish that we hook will never feel a net around them or be taken from the water. I will unhook them next to the boat and do my best to revive them prior to release. If hooked too deeply the line will be cut and lure sacrificed if need be, what ever is best for the fishes chance at survival. :grin:

[Hey Man]

I would just like to note that spring run fish must remain in freshwater a long time, not feeding, and putting energy into the development of their reproductive organs. These fish have a long time that they must survive with as much of their slime layer intact. Not as much energy is being allocated to maintain the slime layer as normal. The slime layer prevents infection among other things, and the removal of this coating will make their battle to reproduce effectively more difficult.

Many of the larger fish are too much to handle with just a tail grab and support from the other hand. The lucky angler ends up brushing their body along the fish to help support and this effectively removes even more slime.

The point Ramstrong made about these fish being durable is true in my opinion, especially in cooler water temps, but keep in mind that these fish must over-summer in some upper reaches that experience water temps above 65 degrees.

I love taking pictures of fish just as much as the next guy, so I understand, but with a fishery that has a wild component that is in as much trouble as this, you must be careful.

Good post Jennie, I had been feeling the same way.

[Silver Hilton]

I think that study makes an excellent comparison. I wonder what the results would have been if they looked at reducing the exhaustion. I use a net, even on fish I am going to release, because I can get them under control without exhausting them as much. For the same reason, I use stout gear, even though 12 lb test line would be fun.

As to Brion's questions, I use mostly single hooks on my plugs. Over the past 4 days fishing, I have had 30 strikes, with 21 fish solidly hooked. Of the fish that didn't stick, 4 were on single hooks, 3 were on treble hooks. I absolutely believe that singles are just as good as trebles for catching these fish, and they are far easier to unhook from a native.

[Uglygreen]

Like this?

UG

[STGRule]

UG: Premium picture!!! No bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.

[Full Freezer]

What about the numerous fish I witnessed being dragged across the sand in a net by bank fishermen on Dibblee's Beach only to be unceremoniously dumped back in when it was determined to be native?

I was astonished that most of the people did not wear waders or at least hip boots when fishing from the bank. The best they could do was to tip toe to the waters edge & make a grab with the net & drag it up for a look.

The sad part was they were catching 10 fish for every 1 by us boaties! Out of the 30 or so fish I observed caught, the vast majority were native & seemed to be handled in a questionable way.

The bottom line is fish that are boat caught suffer way less that bank caught. And I know that this is probably the case the whole lenght of the river.

Just my observation.

Full Freezer

[Fishalot]

You have a good point Full Freezer, I watched just what you discribed happen on Saterday :depressed: . I know that not all bank fishermen miss handle native fish like that and I would say that the same things that boat fishermen don't like to see is also not done by all boat fishermen. We need to speak up when in the boat or bank when we see people miss handling native fish.
The real hard thing is that a lot of the guys that miss handle fish group together so when you are outsider pointing the finger you are likely to get your rear end kicked.

Fishalot

[Dipnet]

Thanks Jennie, I feel the same as you on the pictures of natives out of water. What is the point of risking the life of a native for the sake of a picture? Just my 2 cents! If you have to have a picture, do like UG!!!

Dipnet :grin:

[Gun Rod Bow]

That's a great pic UG. Who caught that beauty?

I'll bet he is an awesome fisherman! :grin: :grin:

(No need to respond)

Actually, I was hoping you'd post that pic, it is a very good example.

[ 04-06-2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[CrazyFish]

I agree, it should stay in the water if your not keeping it.

[IFISH4U]

Ya, its probably a good idea and I usually do it, but If its a nice fish Ill grab it by the tail hold it underneath the belly and snap a quick pick,just make sure your hands are wet. The fish is usually just fine. What really kills fish is switching from trebles to siwash singles, they penetrate very deeply and a lot of times kill the fish, it doesnt matter if you take it out of the water or not.

[Seefood Man]

Do everyone a favor please! If you lean over the boat, and reach far enough down to release a fish, you have about 65% of your body weight overboard already. One good swell or a slick floor would be all it takes to finish you off :shocked: . So please vest up before leaning over so far. We want the fish to live, however, your more important!

[BrionLutz]

Jennie,

Thanks for the info/reminder, I was wondering about the native pics. I'll follow Cap'n Hook's advice and try for pix in the water or not at all.

RRB,

I just have to disagree with one thing, I do not think it is safe or smart to remove quick-fish hooks without the fish being in a net.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I know we killed a native we caught on Saturday. He had the Kwikfish treble hooked deep, near the gills on the inside and was bleeding as he came up to the boat.

You are right, there was no way to get the hooks out without holding him in the net even though our goal was not to net him at all once we saw it was a native.

Even if we just cut the line, the fish would have died with the Kwikfish in him.

A couple of us were wondering later whether it wasn't possible to go with single hooks Kwikfish.

I was thinking abour Eric Linde's idea of adding a swivel and take it step further and make it a single hook. Figuring that even if the hook was in deep, we could cut it at the swivel.

Would it work?

Would it make it easier to release them?

Brion

[Killertraylor]

I used to net natives, leave them in the water in the net and pull the kwikfish hooks out. I always thought this was easiest on the fish (with a cotton bag net of course) as I use 3 hook setups on my kwikfish and they are really hard to unhook sometimes. In addition, many times you can net the fish before they are exhausted and get them back on their way sooner. Earlier this year Hogtide showed me it can be done without netting them and that's what I've done since then. It's kind of a catch 22 though because you have to play the fish a bit longer to get them to cooperate (the fun part) but according to that chart above, their life expectancy might go down if they are exhausted. I think a lot of guys want to get the fish in the net so bad so they don't lose it that they don't take the time to look for the adipose first. I fished next to a guide in Astoria on friday who landed 9 springers. Every one of them were netted, put in the boat until they anchored again, and then the 5 with rudders were held up by the gills for pictures and then released. I doubt one of those released fish lived. I tried to politely tell him that it could be done differently and he just said "salmon are tougher than you think". Obviously the majority of guys are going to keep netting them unless the law changes.

[Chrome Bumper]

Thanks Jen.

Seen lots of pics with wild fish held with one hand in guts and the other hand with a death grip on the tail while being held out of the water.

Kindly leave the ego at home and release in the water. :grin:

In my boat all hands are busy releasing wild fish, no time for a photo shoots.

Usually there is 2 or 3 passes by the boat before thier pectoral fins are tired and you can roll them for handling, in those passes check for the adipose. If its wild get the pliers, not the net. No need to damage their slime coat and scales, which can start an infection.

[ 04-07-2003, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Chrome Bumper ]

[monoman]

I have a shallow bag,compared to the really deep six foot bags, soft net, the fish are netted much faster than they can be brought in without netting. Fish never comes out of the water, and is held until it can swim away.

Netting is not the problem, disrespect is the problem.

[ 04-07-2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: monoman ]

[BrionLutz]

Killertraylor:

I fished next to a guide in Astoria on friday who landed 9 springers. Every one of them were netted, put in the boat until they anchored again, and then the 5 with rudders were held up by the gills for pictures and then released.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Sheesh...I'd take a picture of the guy doing that the next time you see it.

Send the pic to ODFW and that's the end of his guide's license, not to mention the $500 fine. Make sure you get the registration numbers and a good shot of the fish. Sounds like that goofball would pose for you.

Guides I've fished with in Astoria cut the lines as close to the fish as possible as fast as possible when it was a native fish. These were herring rigs so the fish swam off with the hook in them but probably better than getting it yanked out and injuring and tiring the fish even more.

Brion

[dawhunt]

I AGREE,I never take a fish out of the water if its a nate.I also don't use treble hooks,I do use two 4/0 or 5/0 Gammies on a bead chain and have never yet had a hard time releasing a fish,I also don't use a net unless absolutly necassary.My Backs finally getting better hope to be back out there pretty soon.Now if i sould only spel better
Bob [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[ 04-07-2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: dawhunt ]

[Drachir]

Great Picture of a Proper Release, UglyGreen!!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Killertraylor]

Brion - I wish I had a camera. It was a white Alumaweld - 26 feet with a 200 Merc. and Washington registration (I know, sounds like 9 out of 10 guide boats you see on the river). He was out of Deep River, Wa. How would he lose his guide's license and get a $500 fine though? Is there some law that only pertains to guides handling native fish, or are you assuming that leaving the fish on the floor of the boat until you re-tie your anchor rope is "retention" for purposes of the general statute that prohibits retention of non-fin clipped fish?

[fishnxtc]

So does this include no pictures of fish not intended to be kept? There are pictures of wild steelhead and other fish that are not going to be kept posted here. If we are really concerned for the well being of the fish I feel that all posting of any fish not intended to keep should be ban. Is the thinking behind not posting native pictures is to stop people from removing fish from the water for a picture and keeping people who do not know how to handle fish from wanting to post their catch of the day? It is for the well being of the fish right.........Chris

[ 04-07-2003, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: fishnxtc ]

[BrionLutz]

Killertraylor:

A 26' Alumaweld...actually that would be like no other guide boat...I think 25' is the biggest &lt;grin&gt;.

Yes...netting a native, putting it in the boat and then holding it up for pix is breaking the rules. STGRule posted it in this thread:

All trout, salmon and steelhead that are released must be unharmed and should not be removed from the water.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I think the WDFW would be particuarly hard on a guide breaking the rules and posing for pictures doing it.

Pix showing him doing it with multiple fish should be a no appeal case. Sounds like one of those TV cop shows "World's Stupidest Criminals" where the bank robbers gives the teller his photo ID to get the cash.

Brion

[5-Cents]

I guess XTC is right. If you are going to ban pictures of wild salmon you should not post pictures of any fish that is not going to be kept; trout, steelhead, sharks, eels, squaw fish... all of them.

To tell you the truth I think you guys are a little... umm... out there. As I am typing this at my desk at home there just so happens to be a copy of the December-January 2003 STS Magazine and on the cover is a guide with a client posing for a nice picture with a native steelhead. Does this contribute the the moral decay of fishing? I just took a quick count of the pics in that mag and there are at least 20 pics of people posing with nates. On page 83 "The Hog Pen" there look to be 2 pics of nate steelhead that look like they are going to be released one from Upper Trask one from the Wilson. Are these people ruining our fishery?

Before I got my sled I flyfished exclusively for over 20 years. I must have at least 1000 pictures of the fish that I caught, mostly trout and steelhead, and 10's of 1000's that I never got a picture of. 99.9% of all those fish were returned to the water. Did I kill all of them? I think not. With proper care, handling and revival skills you should be able to snap a quick picture of a nate once you take the hooks out. If the fish is overly tired after a long battle or looks beatup then I am the first one to say dont bother it more but the fish I am taking pictures of and releasing are healthy and brought to the net fast, and I never take them out of the water and put them in the boat. Hooks are removed in a rubber coated catch and release net, the camera is readied, the fish is lifted for a few seconds at the most, picture is taken, fish back in the net for an easy revival and sent on its way. I would never, ever let someone handle a nate on my boat that does not know how to safely handle a fish.

Sorry for the rant but please dont flame people that know what the heck they are doing. If you are going to flame then start directing your anger at all those guides with glossy pictures in STS Mag and other publications like it too.

[BrionLutz]

Fishnxtc,

Love all your fish'in pix. Right before this thread started, I was going to ask how to do that with natives or even regular fish. I don't mind letting them go but I always want proof.

I was looking forward to taking all these pix.

Guess I'm going to have to try to do those in-water pix like the one UG posted for the natives.

I'm sure it's going to cost me a camera over the side sooner or later.

On the bright side it's 80% hatchery fish so it shouldn't cost me too many pix.

Brion

[Killertraylor]

Brion - that's not a law - that's just a "suggestion" by ODFW - the use of the word "should" should have clued you in. There's no statute that they can cite you under that prohibits bringing a non-clipped fish on board unless the overzealous game cop considers that "retention".

I've been told by more than one person that their Alumaweld open sleds are 26' - but maybe you're the expert?

[Fishslayer]

I also will NOT put any fish that I'm not going to keep in a net or boat for that matter. There are way to do it boat side even in poor weather!

[Pete]

No one has suggested that there shouldn't be pictures of wild/un-clipped fish ... just that they should be left in the water and handled as carefully as possible. It is possible to take nice tribute pictures of wild fish without diminishing survivability and I enjoy seeing them.

[Jennie@ifish]

I enjoy seeing wild beautiful fish pics too! :smile:
My concern is that we handle them carefully, and that we are setting a good example for others who might just be learning how to handle wild fish.
Jen

[Tyeebuster]

I would agree with the though that all fish that are to be relased stay in the water. I think that the pictures in STS are just as wrong as the pictures here. Furthermore, I belive many outdoors programs set a bad example by holding fish for the camera. Come on folks, I am sure people will belive you are a good fisherman even if you don't take a picture of the fish you release.

Again, I am not questioning our ability of handling fish. I think that the general public might not understand why we need to record our released fish with pictures. If we are going to call ourselves selective fisherpersons, we should go above and beyond to set a good example.

I wonder, if the tables were reversed, if we would think it was a good idea for the fish to hold our head underwater for a period of time while they got a picture of us?

[Hogmaster]

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[Sore Back]

Way to go Ugleygreen. Nice fish.

[live to fish]

Heres a couple of nates from last week. :grin:

[h20dog]

i have a couple buddies that for some strange reason think i am like some kind of salmon slayer, they called me last thursday and asked where to go, what to do. so i told em what i knew.
i even rigged a rod and costomized a kwiki for them. well, im driving to work friday am and get a call on my cell, they had just hooked a 35 lb native and released it. i thought that was great till i saw them that evening and the pic they had taken of it on the deck with a foot on it to hold it from flopping around. after a breif tyrade i told them the proper way to do it. hard lesson learned.
on a lighter note, for those of you that have to reach waaay over the side of the boat to remove hooks...definately put on a pfd, and just as importantly....pull up your pants and tighten your belt so we dont have to see your b.c.

[riverraider]

Ok, I was going to be politically correct and not say anything, but ended up back here again anyway. I know things are different up north vs down here in S. Oregon, but... We have a strong run of springers and there is no restriction on keeping non-clipped springers. The limit is 2 per day whether clipped or not. About 60% of the catch appears to be made up of non-clipped fish (unless you count the bone-heads at the "hatchery hole" with their beads and 15 foot leaders).
We have good runs because of lower pressure than northern rivers and this fishery seems to be managed fairly well.
I'm all for protecting the runs, but isn't the ultimate goal to get the native runs strong enough that we can keep some of them?

[BrionLutz]

Killertraylor,

On the rule that STGRule posted, I take the "you should not take the fish out the water" to be pretty clear cut with no wiggle room but I guess it would be up to whatever judge interprets the rules.

The actions you described were particularly bad, hauling the fish into the boat, leaving it on the floor of the boat while they re-anchored, then holding up for pix. That's likely a dead fish, a lot of dead fish if this person keeps fishing. and something we should try to stop.

Because it's so extreme, that would be a great case for enforcing the not-out-of-the-water rule for the WDFW particuarly for a guide whose license depends on following the rules.

I'm sure guides and other folks will continue to do the quick pic with no enforcement problem but it will keep everyone focused the rules on making sure the fish don't get killed.

As for fishing regs being "laws", I'm not sure what is the legal difference.

I've been told by more than one person that their Alumaweld open sleds are 26' - but maybe you're the expert?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Maybe not &lt;grin&gt;...but in one today and the owner called it a 25', in another one Friday and that owner also calls it a 25. These are Alumaweld sponsored guides so who am I to argue. Maybe there's a 26 version where they put on a bow sprit or something. I can say they are sweet boats.

Brion

[ 04-08-2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: BrionLutz ]

[AuntyM]

I think all cameras should have a built in GPS, and all pics should have the coordinates where pic was taken in the lower left hand corner. :grin: [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[Jennie@ifish]

I thought I'd bring this back up for debate this year, as we decide whether or not to allow native springer pics on ifish.

It is encouraged, as always, to take the pictures of the fish while still in the water.

I don't want to see a springer held up against your shirt with fish slime running down your sleeve, PLEASE!

Be careful with those babies this year! Let's show them a little respect.

Thanks,
Jen

[finclipped]

I think you are going to be required to release wild fish without boating them this year. Post a picture of you holding a nate and you admit your breaking the law. (disclamer, it is not a law yet, but is expected to be one for springers.)

I know a lot of guys on this board that are very careful about how they handle wild fish and I [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] them for it. I think though, that we should give these fish the benefit of the doubt and do all we can to assure their survival by not lifting them out of the water unless you absolutely have to.
The thing is is our C&R practices are under scrutiny by those who would like to limit our fishing days on these fish and will use sports fishers C&R practices against us! Spring Chinook especially, so we need to be good stewards of the resource.
Just something to think about.

[Plum Crazy]

fishnxtc has a valid point. The general concenses (on this board tonight) is it is bad to do anything to natives. However, I agree with DJ he " in my eyes is one of the top guides in the state" I've seen beautiful pictures of Natives in Magazines, on this board and etc. I havent seen a bunch of Native Steelhead Bright and Full of Chrome floating along down any rivers lately. So explain to me where are the carcasses? It is getting to the point that one might ask, should we even fish for any Fish for fear of hooking up a Native allowing our hooks to destroy thier delecate gills? I believe in conservation. I have two boys that I want to see catch great numbers of native fish in the future. I take great efforts to make thier short time near my boat as painless as possible. But It's getting to the point people don't want you to even look at them for fear of destroying the run. God did give us these fish and we should take care of them. As fishnxtc pointed out why if most say no pictures or nets or even touching them should ifish allow downloads of film??????? Makes ya think. Good Point Fishnxtc.
Fire
My 2

[Jennie@ifish]

I have seen several hooked and released chrome natives float by our boat. Several!

It's heart breaking.

J

[Green Machine]

I guess Fear No Fish can't post any Springer pictures!! :grin: Remember some "natives" can be legally kept. (Wind River, Drano Lake, Puget Sound, etc...) I realize the purpose of not allowing pictures of natives on I-fish, but I think the person who posts is probably going to take the picture anyway, even if he/she can't post it. Personally, I love to see pictures of fish, but there is a correct way to do. Just have the Carrot Crew put on a "tutorial". They know the right way to do it.

Green Machine

[Laserman]

Is'nt it about time we have a "Sport Fishing Mortality Study"done on the Columbia River Spring Chinook. The last two years the WDFW said its not posible due to budget restaints and the bioligist say if we did it would open a whole new set of problems for the sport fisherman.( they had the money to do one for the commercial fleet though)

At least if a proper study( minimum of 6 years) was conducted we would know the real facts, instead of using data on from a diffrent speices.

[Pete]

Sportfishing mortality for spring chinook was done by the ODFW just a couple years ago. The point of this discussion is that ANYTHING WE CAN DO to improve our post release mortality will extend our season! It isn't about HOW someone takes a picture of a fish, it's WHETHER the fish is removed from the water! If we, as sports anglers, can cut our post release mortality by 5%, we might see no restrictions to our season and might even see expanded bag limits? Why would anyone do anything to place that in jeopardy? Take care of the resource!

[Plum Crazy]

J, It is heartbreaking. But!
Are the fish floating by from fishers removing them from the water and taking pictures of them or foul hooked fish deep cutting the gills? Pete I can't agree with you and J, more. I think that we CAN and DO make the difference by better release and or less bait fishing during known Native fish entering the rivers etc.. However, I for one have seen on countless occations fishers let a beautiful Native Slam his/her self against someones boat or the rocks where a net would have been better. Or fishers spending 15+ more minutes fighting a fish on the bank until the fish has little to No strength left. The Topic was Pictures of Natives but show me some statistics on the ratio of pictured fish being lifted out of the water to non and the topic would be mute. My point though by now is lost :grin: Is that REMOVING a fish from the water for 1-4 seconds for a quick snap shot doesn't seam like and unethical decision.
Fire

[Pete]

FITH, certainly there are times using a net is a better choice, certainly using adequate gear is always the correct thing to do, no doubt fighting a fish effectively is important. We're looking at small, incremental improvements in technique to better protect endangered fish. In that light, I do believe lifting a fish from the water introduces a risk which is relatively unnecessary. Clearly what is needed is solid, empirical research to support a "best practices" model for sport release of these ESA listed fish. Perhaps funding for such a study could be a joint effort of the ANS, NSIA, ODFW, and others. It probably only takes a good research design, willing scientists and a well written grant proposal.

[Plum Crazy]

Thats totally true Pete,
I too wish more research could and should be done.
I think there are people that wish our sport would go away because of it's production of some idiot's, waste and bad practices. So with that said can we do too much examinationsof fishing to find out fishing IS bad. I for one would die if I couldn't fish. Make ya think though. I just Hate that Everyone thinks they can judge anothers actions with NO concrete evidence to back it up. Question?- Can Topics like this one effect attitudes on the Water. I would be outraged if some Ifisher or other fishers try and tell me I am in the wrong because I took a Native out of the Water for 2 seconds properly and snapped a picture. Are they right who really know's? :whazzup: But now days on the River's everyones a know it all.
You can't fish here! Your boat's been fishing in this hole 7 min and 57 seconds it is now time for you to fish elsewhere, I own this river. Your fishing in my spot. Don't touch the fish!!! He took my matchbox car.. Where does it end? [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]
Can we as fishers be Too stricked and Too Judgemental. I believe the answer is yes.
Sorry but topic like this are tough for me to swallow.
Hey J these topics would be good on Wed. nights for Chat huh.
Fire

[ 12-30-2003, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: FIRE IN THE HOLE ]