RELEASING HATCHERY FISH SEPTEMBER 23rd

[CAGEY]

For Immediate Release Tuesday, September 17, 2002

ODFW announces plans for hatchery closures

PORTLAND - The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife today released the details of its plans to close the Cedar Creek, Elk River, Salmon River and Trask River hatcheries. All four hatcheries will cease operations Monday, Sept. 30, 2002.

The department is closing the hatcheries in response to the across-the-board budget cuts Gov. John Kitzhaber has directed all state agencies to make.

Closing the four hatcheries, all of which are 100 percent General Fund supported, is projected to save ODFW approximately $427,000. These closures, added to cuts being made elsewhere in the agency, will result in a total of $877,000 in reductions for the remainder of the 2001-2003 biennium, which ends June 30, 2003.

"This is a very difficult action to have to take," said Fish Division Administrator Ed Bowles. "Our hatchery employees are dedicated and hard working, and the work they do is important. Unfortunately their positions and the hatchery programs, which support valuable fisheries, have been caught in the General Fund shortfall."

Fish currently in the hatcheries will be released beginning Monday, Sept. 23. Once the hatcheries are closed, a technician will remain on site at each location to maintain the facility in mothball status. Adult fish returning to the hatcheries will remain in the streams to spawn.

Cedar Creek Hatchery is located near Hebo, Elk River Hatchery is east of Port Orford, Salmon River Hatchery is near Otis, and Trask River Hatchery is by Tillamook.

The criteria for selecting the four hatcheries to be closed included the source of funding, the deferred maintenance costs at those facilities, the costs of operations, and the costs of upgrading the facilities to meet the new state and federal water pollution discharge permit requirements.

Earlier this year ODFW held a series of town hall meetings to discuss hunting and angling fees for the 2003-2005 biennium, which begins July 1, 2003. Participants in those town hall meetings listed the key services they would like to see supported by hunting and angling fees. The four services selected by the majority of participants were hatchery production, field biologist services, fish and wildlife enforcement, and landowner services.

As a result of those meetings, the department will propose fee increases that would take effect Jan. 1, 2004, if approved by the 2003 Legislature. Those fees, which are categorized as Other Funds, would make up almost half of the department's proposed 2003-2005 budget, but would not help support General Fund programs, and would not become effective in time to help make up the current biennium's budget shortfall.

More details about each hatchery and the closure process can be found at http://www.dfw.state.or.us by clicking on the 'New' link at the top of the page.

[ 09-17-2002, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Jennie@ifish]

How many for a sit in?
I'm not going to allow this.

Well once again we sports anglers have a knife to our throats! Governor Kitzhabers agenda will win out and our legislature has proven that they are gutless to act. Why not just say "Sorry Tillamook county but we don't feel you are important enough so we are going to gut your economy" Oh and by the way those smolt that will be released, they will not survive or very few of them will.
$877,000!?!?! a drop in the bucket.
So my question is this. Now that these hatchery runs will no longer exist what is going to be done about habitat restoration for the wild fish?
Thanks Kitz and company

[TideRunner]

Sooo................Am I understanding this correctly that at the same time we are loosing our hatcheries, we are going to pay more for a license next year? I thought the license increase was relative to keeping the hatcheries open.......

[Drachir]

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!!

OUR LEGISLATURE IS TOO SCARED TO DO ANYTHING!!!!!!

[Jennie@ifish]

Both silvers and steelhead which should not be release until next spring will overcrowd the rivers in which they are released so that neither wild NOR hatchery fish will thrive with the food available.
Spring chinook egg takes have been proceeding, so what will become of those eggs which will not hatch for several months, let alone be ready even for early release until after the first of the year?

COHO returning to the hatcheries soon might likely flood the streams beating themselves to death at the hatchery racks with no one to process them!!!

ODFW tells us that in spite of volunteer willingness to assist the hatchery care takers in handling the onslaught of returning cohos, liability issues restrict them from allowing volunteers from salvaging or saving this years run.
What is this world coming to when the liability issues are such a controlling threat that we might lose our natural resources???

What THE HELL are they thinking?

I'm really, really ticked, and this is not the way I wanted to spend the night before my surgery.

Jennie

[Uglygreen]

STOP... WAIT... HOLD THE PRESS...

Late this afternoon the state senate voted for a funding package, Including reffering a 200 million dollar income tax increase to the voters.

This means that the cuts are not happining now. We will fight this battle again when this refferal fails in January.

But then, when the legislature meets in regular session to re-solve this problem early next year, Kitzhauber will no longer be governer!

I think I got all that right?

UG

[Pete]

This would be tragic ... release the stocks and lose them ... time for an ESA suit for failure to consider the environmental impact of major government actions.

If a physical blockade is what it takes to buy time, I'll be there.

I can't imagine what motivates our legislature, or fails to motivate them ... obviously not much clear thinking in the current crowd. I hope they enjoy their next careers.

UG, the legislature voted to refer a measure to the voters NEXT JANUARY! That does nothing to help NOW! We are already 3 months into the budget year ... without funding. Is this only to do it under a new governor? Are these clowns worried about anything but their own re-elections?

Join me in this, "RE-ELECT NO ONE!"

[ 09-17-2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Pete ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Good question UG.
Where do we stand?
LET ME KNOW BEFORE I KILL SOMETHING.
Jen

[Jennie@ifish]

Bill's comment.
"Jay Long, fish and game professor at Oregon State, expressed to his students in the Fall of 1959, that politics, rather than biological problems would be the most difficult challenge to the health and future of fish and game management.

Amen, Mr. Long.

[ 09-17-2002, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[6horsekicker]

Yes, I can believe that they will raise the lic/tag rate and not fund the hateries! Because everything good they tell us is a LIE! I think that's called pollitics.

What a bunch of ****

[Jennie@ifish]

From Bill Hedlund:

We elected our State Representatives and Senators to make decisions for us.
They are allowed to adjust the income tax rates as may be appropriate.
It is neither necessary nor in this year's case, appropriate to refer an income tax increase of such slight proportions to the voters when decisions need to be made NOW.
Many of us are disgusted that our legislators so much fear possible re election failure, that they are unable to take the bull by the horns and solve our current budget crisis.

William E. Hedlund

[Uglygreen]

I BELIEVE THAT THIS PASSED ABOUT TEN MINUTES AGO >>> NOT 100% CERTAIN...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By CHARLES E. BEGGS
The Associated Press
9/17/02 6:53 PM

SALEM, Ore. (AP) -- The Senate scheduled a new vote Tuesday night on a proposed ballot measure to raise income taxes by $315 million as lawmakers mounted a drive to eliminate a budget shortfall and wrap up their special session.

The measure had failed Monday, but Senate leaders said they thought there would be enough vote switches to pass the bill on the second round.

The tax measure, which would be voted on at a Jan. 28 election under the Senate version of the bill, is key to a budget-balancing plan closing a $482 million gap with taxes, spending cuts and borrowing.

An effort to instead enact a $220 million, one-year state income tax increase without going to voters fizzled in the Senate.

Lawmakers have struggled in the fifth special session that began Sept. 1 to deal with the latest in series of budget holes caused by declining tax revenue.

The Senate vote Monday was 15-14 for the proposed tax ballot measure, three short of passage. Tax increase bills require three-fifths approval, which means 36 House votes and 18 votes in the Senate.

The measure passed 36-21 in the House.

One of the four Democratic senators who on Monday opposed the House version, Rick Metsger of Welches, said he had wanted to mount an effort to pass the tax increase without sending it to voters.

"That would give some certainty," he said. Metsger said putting the tax proposal on the ballot "amounts to a deferral into an uncertain abyss" because the budget would remain under a cloud.

Analysts say the three-year tax hike would cost the average taxpayer $114 a year.

The increase would raise an additional $413 million to help balance the 2003-05 budget.

Voter defeat of the measure would result in across-the-board budget cuts of $315 million, including a $95 million reduction in state school support.

The temporary increase would raise the top tax rate from 9 percent to 9.5 percent through 2004. The maximum rate applies to annual income above $6,450 for single taxpayers and $12,900 on joint returns.

Lawmakers had yet finish work on the other two ingredients in the budget package.

One would borrow $150 million to $200 against the state's future revenue from the national tobacco settlement.

The other part was cutting spending by about $50 million.

In another development, the House voted passed on a 36-21 vote and sent to the Senate a bill to phase out Oregon's estate tax, which would reduce tax collections about $46 million annually starting in 2005. The bill went to the Senate.

The measure would adopt federal tax changes that phase out the federal estate tax.

Copyright 2002 Associated Press. All rights reserved.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AS I UNDERSTAND IT... THIS STOPS THE 20% "ACROSS THE BOARD" CUTS THE GOV. MADE.

BE WARNED! THIS WILL FAIL ON THE JAN. 28 SPECIAL ELECTION! WE WILL HAVE THIS FIGHT AGAIN!

UG

[TheRogue]

The measure is being referred to voters for only one reason....because when it fails, the Rep's in the legislature can say "Oh well, we tried" or, "We referred it because we knew it wouldn't pass", depending on who they're talking to.

Analysts say the three-year tax hike would cost the average taxpayer $114 a year.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I certainly hope there's not a single NO vote from any IFISH member....if you can afford to be on a computer, you can dam well afford $114 per year.

Would Sizemore & Co. have gathered enough signatures to force it to ballot anyway some time in March?? Possibly he could've bought that many, assuming he gets past the legal battle he's in now.

Please, please remember all of this when it's time to vote in November!! Remember who was in control in the Legislature, who didn't have the 00's to come up with a true plan combining new revenue and targeted cuts.....and who also didn't have the 00's to just come up with a bill of ALL targeted cuts either!!

If things don't pan out, well, I guess *** will get his way.

TR

[ 09-17-2002, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[5-Cents]

This is BS

You know that they cut stuff that people want so you will feel the pain because we wont pass a tax increase. What about living within your budget?!?

Do you know that according to the most recent cencus per capita Oregon is the 8th highest state in the country in collecting and spending tax money... 8th!

The Oregon Health Plan is 9%-12% of the whole dang budget... do you hear Kitz the ditz cutting there.... NOOOOO! His little baby.

I am sick of these idiots. Why not make cuts on the administrative side of things. Oh I forgot you need 5 people supervising for the one person digging on the side of the road! :shocked:

It is all part of Kitz's plan for us to all gripe and then give into a tax increase. Vote all the idiots out and get some people with a set that will do what is right!

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[5-Cents]

TheRogue,

Do you pay taxes??? :whazzup:

The average income in Oregon is a little less than $24,000 per year. After deductions and all that it would cost the "average person" $114. For me and I venture to guess a lot of other ifishers it would be a heck of a lot MORE!!!!!

I already pay a LOT and I am not willing to hand more and more of my money over so it can be missmanaged by the blind leading the deaf leading the dorks leading the idiots! Get my DRIFT! That is the main concern here, waste and irresponibility. How many of us get a guaranteed 10% to 15% pay increase every two years? The government has for the past 20 years! I wish the business I owned had a bottom line growth of 10% to 15% every two years! ARGH! My vote would definately be no but I will send them a check for $114 to keep fishing but remember this it will never be enough!!!! :shocked:

BULL [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[Uglygreen]

Hey TR

Uhhh.... didn't KITZHAUBER veto every targeted cuts and tax increase package in the first 4 special sessions??? Ones that did not affect Hatcheries, State Police, Education Funding, Etc... Isn't he the one holding the gun to the head of every man woman and child in the state? Ill bet you that when he is gone this is solved quickly, if not painlessly.

I think so. Voters don't want a tax increase, that is obvious. And like it or not; that is the meaning of democracy, just in case some of you forgot. We need to make intellegent cuts, and live within the mandate of the electorate.

Using the most important programs to hold the electorate hostage is what the gov is doing. That is disgusting. That is what makes me mad.

Second Paragraph:

"The department is closing the hatcheries in response to the across-the-board budget cuts Gov. John Kitzhaber has directed all state agencies to make."

Eight Paragraph:

"Participants in those town hall meetings listed the key services they would like to see supported by hunting and angling fees. The four services selected by the majority of participants were hatchery production, field biologist services, fish and wildlife enforcement, and landowner services."

ISNT THIS OBVIOUS??? WE SAY IT IS IMPORTANT, IT IS THE FIRST THING TO BE CUT!!!

Maybe we should all call ODFW and tell them we care very little about hatcheries. The most important thing to us is "administrative support". Ill bet you we would get som results then. Reverse psycology works on my three year old, probably just the ticket for ODFW.

UG

[GutshotApe]

Pete - What motivates the legislators is getting re-elected and that means getting votes.

Calling the governor's office won't be enough. He's a short-timer :tongue: who really doesn't like hatcheries, anyway. We need to somehow get to the legislators.

One idea would be for every Ifisher to log off right now, go to their word processor and wrote a short, concise letter to the editor of their local newspaper stating that if the hatcheries aren't kept open then they intend to hold the local state representative responsible and vow to work for their ouster and replacement. Non-residents, send it to the Oregonian.

A letter to the editor counts a lot more than a phone call to a bureaucrat's secretery or receptionist..... The letter about the Elk River hatchery posted yesterday was printed in the paper and delivered to something like 144,000 households in Lane County and read by perhaps 200,000+ potential voters. Every politician in the circulation area read that letter and understands that keeping hatcheries open is important to their constituents. Letters-to-the-editor are somewhat like votes except better - they are considered to represent the opinion of thousands who didn't write.

If each Ifisher wrote a letter tonight and mailed or e-mailed it to their local paper ASAP, some would be published in the next few days and could help sway the politicians who have the power to fix the hatchery problem.

GSApe [img]graemlins/program.gif[/img]

[5-Cents]

Well said Uglygreen!

Kitz the Ditz wants to increase size of government and therefore our reliance on it. I wholehartedly agree with you that when he is gone this mess will be cleaned up and thrown out without much trouble!

[springer4you]

Analysts say the three-year tax hike would cost the average taxpayer $114 a year.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">114 dollars a year isn't nothing, we spend that or more in a days worth of fishing.
Im Willing to give that up, (but just for a day or 2)

What About Boater Education Cards, where does that money go????
I know I paid 25 dollars for mine.
I'd kinda like to see my 25 or part of it to go towards the fish I invite in my boat.

Maybe they should of bumped up the date that everyone is required to have one, And It be in possession during your safety check.I know there's alot of Boat/PWC drivers out their that despratley need to take the coarse.

[ 09-17-2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: springer4you ]

[TheRogue]

Do you pay taxes???

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yes, I suspect my wife and I would pay more like $1000's extra rather than $114. It's worth it to me, I personally like all the benefits this state has to offer. If you don't, well, go ahead and vote that way!!

Remember, for every 1 of us, there's likely 10 people out there that could give a **** less about hatcheries and fishing, and have their own priorities.

Do you honestly believe that the next governor will do better?? Mannix won't win, he's way to controversial and confrontational....even if he did win, he's definitely NOT the person who is going to work toward any consensus. You think the Dr is bad about "my way or no way"?? Kulongoski is so far shaping up to be a "slider"; that is, sliding which ever way the political winds blow, rather than taking a stand on ANYTHING!! Haven't heard a peep out of either one of them over the current problems, have you, other than Mannix promising HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of NEW $$$ to certain "influential" groups in the government.

No, we're not going to be any better off with the new governor, regardless of who it is. And until we get rid of the term limit question once and for all, and can keep experience in the legislature, that's not going to get any better either.

My last .02

TR

[ 09-17-2002, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[5-Cents]

TR,

I am not saying I dont like this state... I do I love it. The point is that the government will take every last dime that you and I have and still say that it is not enough. We have gone through 10 years of a boom economy and one bad year. How much has government grown over those 10 years??? Did they set any aside for the downturn that had to happen sooner or later? Absolutely no planning and when they fall flat on their collective faces who do they blame... US! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

All I am saying is the government should listen to what people want, provide it if it is within reason and budget and quit wasting the rest of the money. The state should be run like someone is running a business or a household. We have X $$$ what makes us money and what is important? I think a large % of Oregonians fish, I am sure you have seen them on the rivers on the weekend like I have! :shocked:

I am sorry about the dig I did not mean it to be as harsh as it read

[Dan Christopher]

if you guy look in the search page you will see that i tried to tell you months ago that if you vote to raise your fees they will do it and say they will save the hatcheries and then close them and keep your money..

next time dont trust anything that sounds to good to be true with taxes and fees.. you will always loose.

but this time i hurts to say i told you so. :depressed:

[The Fishing Geek]

Brief introduction: I posted for Scott at Get Bent Tackle for the last few months, and now am posting as myself. Fish stories later.

I fear that my words will fall on deaf ears, as the rabble has already been roused, but here goes nothing.

Governor Kitzhaber is not targeting the hatcheries. He's not targeting any specific programs for cuts because he can't. All he can do is make equal, across-the-board cuts to all programs. That's all. He doesn't want to make those cuts, because he knows that it is an unfair way of doing it, as some programs are better funded than others, and equal cuts could kill off very important programs. But if the reps in Salem refuse to make the cuts, he will be left with no choice.

The Governor works long hours with Senate and House leaders trying to put together an overall budget package that is fair and responsible. Borrowing against next year's budget to fix this years shortfalls is NOT responsible, as the current problem that we are in does not look to be going away in the next 6-12 months, and borrowing against that will only make the cuts that much more difficult next year. Some have accused Governer Kitzhaber of having short-timers syndrome and that he doesn't care about what happens, but I'm seeing that it is quite the opposite. He's brought the "representatives of the people" back FIVE TIMES to try and come up with a fix for this problem. If he didn't care he'd simply take whatever the Leg. and Senate gave him and packed his bags and left. Instead, he wants them to do it RIGHT, because he knows it can be done. It won't be easy, but it's necessary.

The reason why the senators and legislature of Oregon don't want to make those difficult cuts is simple: many of them are up for election in November, and those necessary cuts would likely be used against them by their opponent via bad PR spinning, and they could lose the election because of it. They all know that if they can defer the problem until next year, then they can rely upon the short-term memory of their constituents that they'll forget before the next election (2 years from now in the leg. and 4 years in the Senate) about all those bad cuts. It's all about self-preservation, and not about community service.

For those of you who made it this far, I want to thank you for taking the time. Myself, I have thrown dead weight out of local offices from both the Democrat and Republican parties, as I'll vote for the person who has my (meaning, my community's) interests at heart. It's not easy finding them, and once I do I'm limited by the term limit laws that irresponsible voters put in place because they had forgotten that THEY are the ones that keep putting those "life politicians" back into office every election cycle. I'll leave that one for another rant at another time. So please, don't label me as anything other than someone who understands the process at least a little bit...

Thank you for reading, and thank you for understanding where the real blame lies. While calling the Governor's office has proven that sports anglers can, at least haphazardly, pool their resources together to make a stand, I'm afraid that those calls (and all this anger directed at Governor Kitzhaber) were misdirected. You should instead target those reps who are misrepresenting the Gov and, in turn, getting away with NOT DOING THEIR JOBS.

[Jerry Dove]

WOW!!!! I just got home from a Port meeting. Jen had called and told me to check the board. I am shocked, about the news, I am shocked that Lindsey Ball did not call me. I thought he and I had a good relation ship. I still hope we do. I will call him in the morning. I was to go fishing tomorrow, but that takes care of that. We need to see what happened in Salem today and see the results of todays election. If in fact they are planning to release fish on the 23rd, you all know where you have to be on that day. No less than 1000 ifishers at each hatchery, get my point. I have talked to guides that say they will be there with there clients. WILL YOU BE THERE??

[THE KIWANDA KID]

Did I realy read at the top of this post that adult(hatchery)fish will be left in the streams to spawn? I wonder if that is something the NMFS would be interested in or does it have to be a river they have a listed fish stock in? Just wondering out loud here. Also, do you think the ever ecological gonerner is ok with these"inferior" fish inter breeding with "wild" fish? Just more wondering. Pete, if you plan on a little sit in I'll bring the soda pops and some handy hardware that would make a tree hugger envious :grin:

[MasterCaster]

I get you point all too well Jerry if this really happen and it looks like it will my butt will be planted by the fish tanks at the Cedar Cr. hatchery! I hate to say it but it looks like I know where I will be the 23rd.

Jon

[John]

They don't need any new taxes! They need to learn how to use what the got. Their is so much waste in the states spending. So Rogue if you want to send your money, that is if you have any, to Salem thats fine with me. But don't push your Taxes on me. I already pay to much as it is! The goverment needs to make targeted cuts. Tell why do they need 2002 Ford expeditions to drive around in. I just saw one the other day, and it was the only one. Why should the state keep spending millions and millions just to make sure the get the federal matching funds? They should n't, I could go on and on on programs that are a waste.

[Lepper]

I certainly hope there's not a single NO vote from any IFISH member....if you can afford to be on a computer, you can dam well afford $114 per year.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Careful...... They will probably word it so no means Yes and Yes means no..... but they would never try to do that would they??

I would gladly send a check for 114$ to save the hatcheries schools ect..... I'd be all for it!!!!

But it will probalby end up costing a small group a lot more then 114$

grrrrrrrrrr... so would anyone vote for me if I ran for govenor? (red kneck version..)

[Flatfish]

Ya know,
I got all fired up in June over this.Went to the meeting in Tilly.Called my rep.E-mailed all involved who should have heard it.Was willing to pay more if that what it takes.
I posted then that the cancer(government) is growing.That was largely ignored.I am to the point of,well @&%* IT.If they close these hatcheries(the same hatcheries the government built to help offset the impact that sport and commercial fishing was having on native stocks of all kinds.The same hatcheries the government PROMISED the people of Oregon,would stay open to supplement fisheries for all to benefit from)well I will be very sad and upset.But I would then sell the drifter(for a loss I am sure,supply and demand...)and buy a sled and fish the Columbia,Willy,Ocean,etc.Why have I not done this already?Because I PREFER to drift the small streams on the coast.But since big bro wants us to work at the same HUGE conglomerates(easy to track our incomes,don't want to miss the opportunity to tax us)and hates small business(ever try to be self employed in this state?).They would rather pack us like rats in a cage and depend on the federally funded fish on the big waters and still get my INCREASED FEES.Hmmm sounds like big bro aint doing you any favors.Favors you are willing to pay for.Favors you are willing to work for.
This is a perfect example of why I love my country and distrust my government.It also shows why I am a Rep at heart.The less big brother there is out there,theless my chances of getting it in the shorts in the long run.
Now (Democrats are you listening?)we have big government,big taxes to pay for said government,and less and less services provided by big bro because they don't have enough money?Who is exactly in a position to benefit from our present situation?Those who leech off MY FAMILIES hard earned pay cause they are too lazy,geta job and make it for themselves.
If it comes down to losing my ability to fish (think its not gonna happen,well look at it 50 years ago,today,and crystal ball it into the future 50 years...what do you see?Bright and cheery?)or paying too much money for too little opportunity,well then I will quit fishing alltogether.Heck I would fly to a place where it is worth my while to spend my money and do it there.
Then again,I tried to get sports anglers to work,both politically and physically with commercial fisherman.They already have lawyers on the payroll.These people have it together as an organization.With our numbers and money to fund OUR VOICES maybe we could have made a difference.Maybe we could have applied pressure before the doom and gloom set in.But nobody wanted to associate with the commercials because they catch too many of OUR fish,They don't pay enough per fish like we do.Forget trhe fact that they fish for 85% of the population of Oregon.Forget the fact that if you didn't catch a fish at Frenchmans,it may be your inability ti fish well not the nets that caused a skunk.But nobody listened.Someone wanted to start another sports angler representative group.How many of them do we have now.Wanna guess how many groups represent the commercials?It is a lot less than us.Yet they still fish.Yet they have but a mere tiny number of anglers that we have.Yet we lose.Because we are not heard.Because we are taken advantage of.Left out in the cold.Pay for our play(what is left of it)and get less for more.It's too bad nobody could try to save the ship before it started sinking.
Maybe I'll take up birdwatching or chess or something I have controll over.If I offend here then so be it.I really care about this.Actions speak louder than words.
My wife works for the gov(if everyone had her conscience we wouldn't be in this mess)and I hear all the good and bad stories.There is enough wasetd funds in Washington county ALONE to pay for this and more.
Hope you enjoyed tonites rant.I'll be playing here all week.
Mark(sad and mad and frustrated)and the dog.

Originally posted by THE KIWANDA KID:
Did I realy read at the top of this post that adult(hatchery)fish will be left in the streams to spawn? I wonder if that is something the NMFS would be interested in or does it have to be a river they have a listed fish stock in?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Good points KID!!! What a mess this will all be when those hatchery fish start returning. Makes me wonder if Kitz thought this through at all.
23rd? If I can get a ride from someone Jerry then I will be there.

Flatfish: you made some excellent points! One thing though you better address the republicans too! This is a bi-partisan screw up! Where is the leadership? It's not in the Governors office that's for sure but I have'nt seen a whole lot of it at the state house either.
What is the savings? $877,000? A drop in the bucket! What is happening is we are paying for someones agenda with no action plan for improvement of wild fish habitat! This is a dark day in Oregon for sure.

[ 09-18-2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Shane S ]

[Flatfish]

Thanks Shane.There is no leadership.Hence government itself is the problem.Since Demos,traditionally.like to provide more services to the people,under their guidance.Government will grow exponentially faster than if the conservatives were making the decisions.The savings is there if every penny would be held accountable.The things I have heard turn my stomach.My biggest frustration is we all stood here and let it happen.I wanna cry.
See you thurs nite.
Mark and the dog.

[John]

I just wrote John Taxhaber, Gordon Smith , Vern Duncan, and Kathy Lowe emails tonight. If everybody here playin the political blame game would spend half as much time every night sending emails to our reps, as they do blaming one another for the closers maybe the hatcheries would not be closing!!! They would remain open with out this so called " standard of living tax hike." So instead of falling for Rogues we need to pay more taxes trap send emails to all the Reps you can, all the Senators State and Federal, and DR NO, King John the Tax lover. By the way Rogue are you going to pay my only 125.00 for me! if it is only a hundred dollars or so I think you can swing it. When you do I will be sure to vote for Tax increase.

[garyk]

Wow, hey there TheRogue, now it's my time to agree with you - twice. Both posts were on the mark.

Thanks too TheFishingGeek for that very accurate description/assessment of the situation. (some would be very well served by re-reading it).

Folks don't seem to understand that the Governor isn't pulling the trigger - he simply has no choice. The various department heads list out the cuts. The Governor cannot make targeted cuts.

Keep in mind that at this moment every interest group - law enforcement, health care, educators are lobbying for their cause.

I watched the boom years pass go by while the Republican majority Legislature squandered the opportunity and tacitly if not outrightly supported the Sizemore/McIntire/Hempstreet/Parks clique that was screwing everyday Oregonians so that the very-rich could become obscenely rich.

Now the boom is over and the money isn't there to fund the services and infrastructure needed by our expanded population.

At least, as Red Green says - we're in this together.

[bigshark]

I deleted this post as it is only angry words that really have little constructive value. Good night.....We both shall have you in our thoughts and prayers Jen......Tomarrow will be a good day for you I'm sure.

[ 09-18-2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

[garyk]

Bigshark -- I agree, and this November's election will be an interesting test of the the voters' memory. How many incumbent legislators will be voted out?

How many Ifishers even know who their state senator and representative is?

[Deepslayer]

There is no way I will vote for an increase in taxes!! My wages have been frozen for almost two years because of the bad economy! Why hasn't the government sat down with the unions and worked to freeze government employee wages for the next year or two???Why are we going to spend 19.2 million on a new criminal justice commission and then lay off police officers and close jails??? Why are we spending 35 million for the Oregon Economic and community Development department? Why are we spending almost 8 million for a new vetinary school at a cost of over 4ook per student, when they can go to Washington schools for less than 23k. Why is the Portland school district crying so loudly when they receive more money per student than any other school district, and those school districts are quietly making reasonable cuts in their budgets?? Why wont the legislature consider the 100million in cuts to the Oregon health plan proposed by senator Mae Yih. Why don't we look at privatizing more of the government programs eliminating costs and the large lobbying block of public employees?? Why am I wasting my time?? There are too many people with their hands out instead of willing to lift a hand.

[PapaHog]

:blush: :blush:

I will be where ever I am needed on the 23rd.

In the meantime I will write to the paper and try and urge support for the hacheries.

I do not want my taxes raised and believe they have enough money if they would cut the fat and waste.

[Jerry Dove]

Wed. 2:17 AM. I can't sleep thinking about the hatcheries closing, all those little fish and new eggs getting tossed out for the birds to eat!!!! As I said in an early note, I will call Lindsey Ball first thing this morning. If in fact he is really going to allow this to happen, then we need to take action. We need to make Tree Arrow (the tree setter) look like an angel. Some quick thoughts at 2:21AM. I will contact County Commissioners, City Hall, Port of Garibaldi, Old Mill Marina, and all sporting goods stores in Tillamook County, City of Wheeler and all private Marinas and shut down fishing in Tillamook County on Monday Sep. 23rd. We will have them send fishermen to the Trask and Cedar Cr. hatcheries. We might even find a lot of sick ODFW employes on the 23rd. Oh yes we will also call all news media. We might even have porta pots along chance Rd. leading to Trask Hachery. Do you think someone could do the same in the other areas? If enough fishermen show up I guess fish trucks could not get in or out of the hatcheries. Now for this to work we would need all fishermen to show up, take a day off work. Make a sacrifice, and do not think that your buddy will show up so you won't have to, becouse your buddy will be thinking the same thing. What do you folks think about this. Oh yea we need every ifisher to call all of there friends. All fishermen do not get on ifish. Now this would be sticking together. OK I am going to go back to bed and try to sleep. Let me know what you think. Jerry. PS the Gov. office, the ODFW office also check out this web site.

[Born to Fish]

The $427,000 to be "saved" by closing the 4 hatcheries sounds like chump-change to me when you consider the potential economic impact to the communities and state. One would think that there'd be a better, more cost effective solution to all this. But then again, it sounds as though its just bad politics and perhaps any real actions in this regard will need to be manifested at the polls come election day.

[blackdog]

This is mind boggling to me. I can't help disagreeing with TheRogue and others who say the Governor has no choice but to do this. Where are the efforts to cut things that could save the state millions like getting rid of the OLCC, the SIMS and CAMs program, changing the life expectancy tables for the PERS programs (absolute ****** of the state)? The extra money that is being spent on these 'special sessions' alone could have paid for the hatcheries. Why couldn't they get their job done during normal work time? They're probably being carted around Salem in the new fleet or Expeditions that the State just had to have. 'No other choices' my *ss!!! I'll fish Sunday and be up Chance Rd Monday morning waiting for something to happen. Hoepfully nothing will.

[Tanner]

Quoted by 5-Cents

I already pay a LOT and I am not willing to hand more and more of my money over so it can be missmanaged by the blind leading the deaf leading the dorks leading the idiots! Get my DRIFT! That is the main concern here, waste and irresponibility. How many of us get a guaranteed 10% to 15% pay increase every two years? The government has for the past 20 years! I wish the business I owned had a bottom line growth of 10% to 15% every two years! ARGH! My vote would definately be no but I will send them a check for $114 to keep fishing but remember this it will never be enough!!!!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Amen.
I am so sick of watching the government waste my hard earned money. The biggest part of the problem is that most politicians are also attorneys. They don't care about you, me or the fish we fish for and the communities that are fueled by that resource. All they care about is getting re-elected so they can continue to collect their kickbacks.

Another part of the problem is that the public in general has gotten so comfortable in their way of living that they don't want to be bothered with trying to keep the people they elected to represent them in line.

[ 09-18-2002, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Tanner ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Time to make phone calls again to the governor and that nice lady on the other end of the line. Post that number again Shane S. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[Flatfish]

Here we go again.427 grand is chump change.Yet they still close.Why?So our good friend Taxula can get us one last time for an average of 114 bucks a year.
For years Oregon voters have refused tax hikes.Now we are leveraged into one.The state says our budget is shrinking.In the next 2 years,it will grow 7%.I think thats 14% in the next 2 not 3 1/2 each year.Yet when our fun is threatened we all cry "NOOOO! I'll pay more so I can play."Taxes are raised.Fees are raised.You think that our lic. fees will stay the same if they close the hatcheries.Think they wont put a lic. on shellfish?We all pay more,and get less.
If our fish loving gov. really wanted to save these hatcheries,he would call Lindsey Ball.Mr Ball would call Jerry Dove(the nicest guy in the west)and it would be done.Problem solved.Dr. Build me a house on the Rogue,hates all of us who stick up for ourselves.He also secretly hates hatchery fish.Most of us would be amazed to stand around and listen to a conversation between 2 Trout Unlimited members.Scary way to look at things for the coast.It may work elsewhere,but not in Tilly.Yet these people ,who have ideas that may work for trout on the Deschutes,but would simply devastate steelhead on the coast,have influenced Dr. Nates only into killing our heritage.Killing our fish.Killing our way of life.
Now another thing,I have called,wriitten,and E-mailed every one of my reps and the socialist gov. every day since early Sept.If anyone who volunteers as much time as me for the fish wants to stand up and accuse me of not pulling my weight on these and other issues can e-mail me and we can meet for coffee.If you spend half the time helping the fish,you will recognize me.
Close em John,I'll fish the Columbia.Or the wild and scenic end of the Rogue.
Rant 2 is now complete.This message will self destruct in 5...
Mark and the dog.

[Jerry Dove]

Hey we can ***** and moan all we want and point fingers. I want to know if we plan a sit in at the hatcheries, how many of you will show up. I have been trying to call Lindsey Ball director of ODFW, they will not answer the phone. Need to know if the election will help keep them open or not. If not I will try to close all boat ramps in Tillamook County Mon. morning. Jerry

[hawgcatcher]

Although it might not make me friends, I still think that a sales tax for Oregon could be the answer. That way everyone will pay his fair share. That includes the rich, the middle class and the poor and the migrants that come by the thousands each year.

We have to pay for all the freebees that are used by them such as free medical and such.

If you go to the store, you pay the taxes no matter what class you are. You would get the druggies and the rich businessman too. It is hard to cheat on a sales tax. It gets everyone.

Look at our neighboring state. They don't seem to have problems with State Police budgets or Hatchery budgets or schools.

It is time to get our head out of the sand and get some money in now. It is always easier to pay as you go instead of all at once.

[hound]

i'll be there jerry

just let me know

[Jerry Dove]

Thanks Hound. You make about 5or 6 that have said they would be there. Boy I bet that large number will get their attention!!!!????

[CrazyHorse]

I would gladly pay a tax hike, (even though I really can't afford it...mine would be much more than $114 also) IF i was assured that by taking this tax hike that the hatcheries would be left open. But, I just don't believe that this will be the case. We all pay this extra money and it will go directly into the legislatures pockets for their next pay increase.
Ask me to pay for a fund to specifically save the hatcheries...fine but not to give money for congress to squander!

[Uglygreen]

Jerry, I could probably go...where and when?

UG

[Chacal]

I have a couple of questions.

1. How many hatcheries are there?

2. How will the closing of the targeted hatcheries effect the salmon run in the near and long term?

Right now, without all of the information it seems to me that they are hurting Oregon's Natural Resources as a political move.

I wonder what the Feds would say about Salmon recovery if they knew this news?

Chacal.

[Jerry Dove]

UPDATE; 8:50AM. Spoke with Lindsey Ball just now. He is in Salem and will have a Cabinet meeting at 9:30. All things are on hold for now. Waiting to see what the Gov. will do. He may cancel all cuts. THAT WOULD BE GOOD. But he also might say close the hatcheries. We need to call the Gov. office and ask once again that he not allow this to happen. Lindsey will call me when he knows anything. So I guess I will head for Tilla. Bay and see if I can catch a couple Coho. Jerry

[fish_on]

from Koin.com
The 19-day session that ended June 30 cost $104,595. The first session, from Feb. 8-11, cost $70,409 and the second, from Feb. 25-March 2, was $80,240. Capitol Security Not Included In Total. The expense of the five special sessions is adding to Oregon's budget problems. So far, the sessions have cost taxpayers $400,000.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Here is where our hatcheries went.

[ 09-18-2002, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: fish_on ]

[6horsekicker]

Just called again along with 2 other co workers. Please keep calling everyone, have every one at your work place call as well.

-6horse

[brshooter]

Jerry,
I can sit in on Monday. Let me know where to be.

[spin33]

Look's like it"s all been said. If comes down to the "closing" day, I'll plant my butt right there with the rest of you, and I won"t go away very easy either. " The persuit of happiness to me " IS FISHING." How far are we willing to let the gov. push before we stand up and say no more? They have the funds for all programs, " SCHOOLS INCLUDED." Take out the PORK, and give me some FISH . Yea, I'll be there!!!!!!!! }&lt))'&lt; GOV &gt;')))&gt;{

[ragjr]

This is B.S!!!!

What about the endangered spices act?

If they (the Goverment) do this won't it be a violation of the act to save the FISH.

I have sent serveral mail to them as well as others I know and here from this site.

To Bad the Govrernment don't listen to the people that pay there wages they all want to cut programs but, never there pay, they seems to always vote for the increase.

[img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] Let the government take a PAY CUT and save some well deserved programs that will last for our life time and many others to come

[RichH]

I must confess to some confusion here. I attended the town meeting in Tillamook where the idea of fee increases was put forth to save the hatcheries on the chopping block at that time. With those increases I was under the impression that we WOULD have enough funds for the next budget cycle. If, in fact, the state (Gov) decides to close these hatcheries, what happens to that fee increase? Do we get double screwed? Say, in the butt Bob with no lube? No fish and a fee increase to boot? Anybody? [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[NEUTRON]

Rich...good post. One fire after another.

[choppers]

Hmmmm I've seen this thread for two days but was afraid to look inside it. sure enough i'm pist here's two quotes that i've been ******** about since the onset.

quote:

from Koin.com
The 19-day session that ended June 30 cost $104,595. The first session, from Feb. 8-11, cost $70,409 and the second, from Feb. 25-March 2, was $80,240. Capitol Security Not Included In Total. The expense of the five special sessions is adding to Oregon's budget problems. So far, the sessions have cost taxpayers $400,000.

quote:

I already pay a LOT and I am not willing to hand more and more of my money over so it can be missmanaged by the blind leading the deaf leading the dorks leading the idiots! Get my DRIFT! That is the main concern here, waste and irresponibility. How many of us get a guaranteed 10% to 15% pay increase every two years? The government has for the past 20 years! I wish the business I owned had a bottom line growth of 10% to 15% every two years! ARGH! My vote would definately be no but I will send them a check for $114 to keep fishing but remember this it will never be enough!!!!

I can't wait to buy my deer or elk tag. knowing my hard earn money goes to pay for their blunders. Hey the CEO's of major companies are going to jail, why can't our government officials. Stealing 400,000 that's theft. chow i'm pist. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]