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Old 02-03-2011, 07:29 PM   #1
gspdog
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Default Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Hi guys, I was wondering what kind of info you could give me about getting a long range gun. I currently shoot a .270 wsm remington sps. I have a VX III 4.5-14 40mm scope on it. Would Leupold be able to alter my current scopes reticle and add the turrets or would I need a different scope? Would this be an effiective 700 yard gun if it all comes together? In my limited research I see alot of guys are using custom Berger bullets that shoot real fast and flat. If you don't like the sounds of this setup, what would you recommend? Anyways sorry about the convoluted post, thx.

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Old 02-03-2011, 07:39 PM   #2
SeanD
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Leupold custom shop can install a custom BDC reticle with dots to get you to 700 yards. They can also, or instead, install a turret. They can do the turret with distance markings to match your load if you supply the info (CDS). Or they can install the turret with generic MOA markings and you use a drop chart from a ballistic program. I have two MOA CDS turrets. If I had to do it over I would have M1 MOA turrets instead.

A good rifle, scope and a turret is pretty darn impressive to shoot. 700 yards is a long way, but with a lot of practice from field positions in the wind you can pretty easily determine how far is realistic. The highest BC bullets you can get will perform the best, probably 150gr bergers or hornady SST's.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

I had my vx 3 sent in and had the M1 style turret built The cds doesn't have as much adjustment I believe. I think it was $148 or something around that Mine is zeroed at 100 and goes out to a 1000 yds. It is awesome shot 2 deer this year 1 at 636 and the other at 600. I am going to build another load for my gun and have a different turret made I shoot a 300 ultra mag. It is a great system. Oh don't shoot bergers I used them this last year not impressed both deer were shot with them but the bullet came apart and didn't do much damage. I shot a bull also at 120 yards it is a good thing that I drilled his heart or I would have had to track him for ever. Look at other bullets nosler, barnes quality bullets. I was shooting the berger vld hunting bullet very accurate and flat shooting just bad performance on animals in my opinion. Good coyote or varmint bullets that is my 2 cents.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

I'm looking to do the M1 elevation turret only on my 2.5x8 Leupold.
Here's an email reply I just got from them the other day - and yes,
your scope is a candidate for retrofit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your scope will need to be sent to Leupold for this retrofit.

The CDS System. I recommend this for a hunting scope. The adjustments are $90.00 each.

The Target adjustment. $80.00 for elevation dial only or $120.00 for both windage and elevation.

The M1 adjustment. $90.00 for elevation dial only or $130.00 for both windage and elevation.

Any one of these systems can be calibrated for elevation and windage ballistic compensation. The calibrated dials are $60.00 each. Most people have the elevation calibrated only for a hunting scope because, they usually do not understand how to read the wind or properly adjust for it and it is usually faster when hunting to hold for windage correction.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

I don't recommend the CDS, as you're limited to THAT particular load. Get the standard elevation or the M1 knob. Then that way if you decide to change bullets/loads or decide to put the scope on a different rifle you won't have to get a new dial made. You will need a rangefinder, but after that it's just range-spinthe knob-hold dead on-and shoot. Practice is still required.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

And you don't need a big boomer either, I have them on all my rifles from .223 to .300 Win.

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Old 02-03-2011, 09:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Thx guys this is great info. Keep it comin.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Buddy has the turret on his Leupy 4.5-14...watched him hit a 2' diameter plastic pipe laying on the ground first shot at 840 yards with his 300 WBY. So impressed I now have the same setup on my 7mm WBY
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Just got mine back from leupold(cds). WOW right on the money ,now i just need to find a long range RANGE....
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

For longe range shooting I would not go with a BDC. Always use Turrets much more accurate. I like my bullets at least go over 3000fps, with a good B.C.. Bullet contruction choice depends on the animals you plan to take with it.
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
For longe range shooting I would not go with a BDC. Always use Turrets much more accurate. I like my bullets at least go over 3000fps, with a good B.C.. Bullet contruction choice depends on the animals you plan to take with it.
This is right on the money. I personally just rely on turrets myself.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

I'm gonna be honest....... .270WSM 700yds, seems a bit under-gunned IMO, for elk at least.
Also not a fan of Berger's for hunting (particularly elk). I know those fools on Best of the West "do it all the time", but I've also heard that they have a lot of cripples that they don't show on TV.

Not a fan of the Leupold CDS turrets either. No cap or cover. Can't risk it'll stay put and not get rubbed off zero accidentally by pack or saddle scabbard. But if you do go the CDS route, like said before, get the std MOA bushing as well as one load specific. I believe their current offer is for 2 bushing, so make sure one is the std MOA bushing.

Finally, making 700yd one shot kills w/ a factory rifle is a VERY tall order.
I have a very accurate factory .338Ultra and even I'm not comfortable w/ shots beyond 500yd.
Not saying your .270wsm isn't or can't, but VERY skeptical.

All this said I will not discourage you from trying. They mere exercise of learning to shoot LR is a very humbling & enlightening experience. And you'll soon realize how hard it really is. Wind, shot angle, altitude, temp & humidity all figure in to make things difficult. Hell even mirage messes with you.

But if you can hit a milk jug each and every time, one shot ...no sighters. Your good to go.
You know I went through this LR maturing process, and even though I have the caliber, rifle and knowledge .....I've yet to shoot anything beyond 500. It always seems that I'm able to put myself in a position for a much closer shot. I think Murphy is at work here, after hitting 3 deer, I put deer whistles on my rig & a skinning knife under the seat....haven't hit one since. I learn to shoot LR and haven't needed to do it. Go figure.

Good luck,
Hunt'nFish
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Lots of good info here, here is where I see it a little differently.

Don't use an ultra high BC bullet. Use the most accurate hunting bullet you can find that has a decent BC. Take it from a former 1000 yd BR competitor; mediocre accuracy cannot be overcome by BC.

I am very leery of cranking turrets. Even very high end scopes often don't track precisely.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

+1 for NON-cds dials. They lock you in to one load and one set of conditions. Temp, BP will change and so will your setting....

For instance you may find that with your cds set at 7 you are good to go at 700 yards, but in another set of conditions you are 7-1or2 or 7+1 or 2. This makes your data card a little more dificult to understand, especially under some pressure.

Using a a standard MOA dial or reticle allows you to compensate for air density variables with your data card and proven dope. May seem a little confusing now, but trust me it pays off in the end.

What ever you do, make sure your Reticle and Dials "speak" the same language. IF you get MOA dials, get a MOA reticle.If you want MIL dials, get a MIL reticle. Yes you can do the mental math breaking your MIL reticle down (1mil, 3.438 moa or 3.5 for field use) but it's just one more thing to do in your head.

Nate.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Is the particular reticle you choose all that important if you're using a rangfinder and turrets to dial in distance? Or are you referring to judging follow up shot adjustments by using your reticles? I'm mostly trying to learn this from a hunting perspective and would hope to have a knowledgable spotter on hand if/when long range shots are taken.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish View Post
I'm gonna be honest....... .270WSM 700yds, seems a bit under-gunned IMO, for elk at least.
Also not a fan of Berger's for hunting (particularly elk). I know those fools on Best of the West "do it all the time", but I've also heard that they have a lot of cripples that they don't show on TV.

Not a fan of the Leupold CDS turrets either. No cap or cover. Can't risk it'll stay put and not get rubbed off zero accidentally by pack or saddle scabbard. But if you do go the CDS route, like said before, get the std MOA bushing as well as one load specific. I believe their current offer is for 2 bushing, so make sure one is the std MOA bushing.

Finally, making 700yd one shot kills w/ a factory rifle is a VERY tall order.
I have a very accurate factory .338Ultra and even I'm not comfortable w/ shots beyond 500yd.
Not saying your .270wsm isn't or can't, but VERY skeptical.

All this said I will not discourage you from trying. They mere exercise of learning to shoot LR is a very humbling & enlightening experience. And you'll soon realize how hard it really is. Wind, shot angle, altitude, temp & humidity all figure in to make things difficult. Hell even mirage messes with you.

But if you can hit a milk jug each and every time, one shot ...no sighters. Your good to go.
You know I went through this LR maturing process, and even though I have the caliber, rifle and knowledge .....I've yet to shoot anything beyond 500. It always seems that I'm able to put myself in a position for a much closer shot. I think Murphy is at work here, after hitting 3 deer, I put deer whistles on my rig & a skinning knife under the seat....haven't hit one since. I learn to shoot LR and haven't needed to do it. Go figure.

Good luck,
Hunt'nFish

agreed!!! good luck stay under 500 yds. IMO

god bless....

jay
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdog View Post
Is the particular reticle you choose all that important if you're using a rangfinder and turrets to dial in distance? Or are you referring to judging follow up shot adjustments by using your reticles? I'm mostly trying to learn this from a hunting perspective and would hope to have a knowledgable spotter on hand if/when long range shots are taken.

Sure, the reticle is used to augment your dialing. It's way better to have the option down the road to hold OR dial on your wind corrections. I prefer to hold.

You can also use your reticle to add to your elevation correction...For instance if you need to correct more than 15 moa on an M1 dial you will be beyond one rotation. If you have a reticle in moa (or you want to do the math with a MIL ) you can add the two.....so to get 18 and 3/4 moa of correction you can dial on 3 and 3/4 then use a 15 minute hold line to complete your correction.

The most underated aspect of having a MIL or MOA reticle is that fact that you can tell how LARGE an animal is at distance. Keeps a guy from making a 3 hour move on last years bear cub.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

My turret is the M1 with 100 yard increments out to a 1000 yds built for a specific load. I would recomend a cover for the turret like shown above. Or just do moa which the most accurate. If I had a CDS made I would have had to zero farther out than 100.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:54 PM   #19
gspdog
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

Thanks for the replies guys. A whole lot of info here. I think I should have started another post first, like "Long range basics 101."
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

I have the same scope with the 30mm tube on my 300WSM, and just picked it up from leupold after adding standard(mark 4 I believe) turrets. I would also stay away from the CDS, because they lock you in to a set elevation, temp, preassure ballistic curve.

I've killed several animals at extended range with this and another 300WSM shooting the same load and wearing the same model scope. And in my opinion its running out of gas at 700yards. A friend of mine shoots the 270WSM we seem to share the same opinion, that its not much of a "beyond 500 yards gun". A good rule of thumb for maximum range is that you want 1500ft/lbs of energy for elk, and 1000-1200 for deer at the critter. Yes, you can kill them with less, but then your stating to roll he dice a bit.

As far as bullets, a lot of guys are shooting Berger. I don't have any personal expeirence with them, but the main drawback that I have heard voiced is close range performance at high velocities. And the bullet not holding together well enough to penetrate. I would start with some sort of controlled exspansion bullet, that has a high BC. Hopefully you can get one of those to shoot well from your gun.

If you have any more questions, PM me. Or if you want to get out and play around at longer ranges. I've got a couple steel target s set up for practice.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:36 AM   #21
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Default Re: Longer range shooting and Leupold turrets

If you are new to the game(less than 10 years with the rifle) and dont reload, i agree with the turret in moa. If you have owned your rifle for years and have worked up a load you use with good results....cds is the ONLY way to go.When you range your animal(target) you only have to get a good rest(using same load)moa or mil you do thid because you can use different loads.....but NOW which load am i carrieing...hmmmmm. Just get one set for deer(140 grain) and another set for elk (160 grain in my case)
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