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Old 12-02-2010, 10:42 PM   #1
kaimuki49
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Default Kicker on transom or bracket?

i am an experienced boat person, and have a great marine shop do the work on my boat and motor, so i am not coming from a dark hole lol. but i want other opinions (second and third ideas never hurt).

i run a 40 hp on my 16ft spectrum which is totally rigged for fishing (and crabbing) and i need to replace the electric kicker with something that could actually run the darn boat in an emergency (like at mouth of netarts or tillamook bays) if there were an engine failure (and wrong tide ripping out etc etc).

i cant go very large on the engine so have settled on a 4 to 6 hp. the spectrum is not wide and wt at the transom is very noticable. ok finally the question:
i would need a long shaft if mounted it on the transom directly, but could put a bracket and use a short shaft. i am in the process of finding a good dependable engine, but often its hard to locate long shafts. can any of you think of a reason that a short shaft mounted on a bracket would be a bad idea?

thank you kindly in advance. tmm (and this engine would be entirely an emergency motor - not used for trolling)

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Old 12-03-2010, 06:10 AM   #2
The Cross
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimuki49 View Post
i am an experienced boat person, and have a great marine shop do the work on my boat and motor, so i am not coming from a dark hole lol. but i want other opinions (second and third ideas never hurt).

i run a 40 hp on my 16ft spectrum which is totally rigged for fishing (and crabbing) and i need to replace the electric kicker with something that could actually run the darn boat in an emergency (like at mouth of netarts or tillamook bays) if there were an engine failure (and wrong tide ripping out etc etc).

i cant go very large on the engine so have settled on a 4 to 6 hp. the spectrum is not wide and wt at the transom is very noticable. ok finally the question:
i would need a long shaft if mounted it on the transom directly, but could put a bracket and use a short shaft. i am in the process of finding a good dependable engine, but often its hard to locate long shafts. can any of you think of a reason that a short shaft mounted on a bracket would be a bad idea?

thank you kindly in advance. tmm (and this engine would be entirely an emergency motor - not used for trolling)
no expert here but a couple of things come to mind.
As the boat reacts to waves a short shaft might have a tendency to come out of the water?
Secondly, a short shaft power head would be lower therefore the tiller handle would be shorter to the operator. On a boat like yours in the conditions you describe I would think a long shaft is a better choice by quite a bit
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:14 AM   #3
RiverMan
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Just replaced my bracket with a transom mount. I got tired of raising and lowering the bracket. Get yourself a long shaft motor with electric start and electric tilt and you will love it...........expensive but worth it.

RM
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:28 AM   #4
Scott Riggen
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Kaimuki,

I have a 1997 sylvan yukon select (riveted boat) which I think is similar to the spectrum.

I have a 40 horse oil injected merc on the back for a main motor and an early 90's honda 8 horse for a kicker.

My fuel is a 20 gallon tank built into the bottom of the boat for the 40 and a small 3 gallon aux tank for the honda.

In the future I plan on installing a fuel / water separator so that I can feed both motors off the main tank. I have only had the honda a couple of months so this is still on the to do list.

Weight distribution is a big issue in this boat. It is hard to get on a plane and is really butt heavy. My next big project will be to pull floors because I am fairly certain I have waterlogged float foam in the floor. I am also planning on adding a second battery and moving them both toward the front.

The only difference I can see in our setups is that while I use my kicker to troll you just want the kicker for emergencies.

The 7.5 pushes me around fine (In fact I am using a slow troll prop so the original would even be a bit faster on the top end). You might find a single cylinder 5-6 horse 4 stroke long shaft and mount it right on the transom. If you can use one fuel source that will help cut down on the weight.

Just my
Good luck on whatever you decide.

Regards,

Scott

P.S. I shopped a long time for the honda. If you have cash in hand and be vigilant on your search it will happen.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:34 AM   #5
kaimuki49
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Thanks for those thoughtful replies. My marine guy would rather I use a long shaft on the transom, and it certainly makes common sense to me too. The point about fiddling with the bracket, up and lowered etc, is a strong one for me at least. If I need to get outta some where nasty quickly after having main engine failure one would rather not be leaning over the back setting the bracket ht it seems.

You raised something I never thought of - would moving the battery forward help the "heavy butt" problem significantly?

btw, i pulled the original carpet covered deck (yeeks that carpet on wood!! who would think that's a good idea??) and replaced with marine ply coated and installed nicely. To my surprise the foam (which is only in the side thirds of the floor) was perfect. One huge beni in redoing the floor besides having a nice solid floor now, is that i put in a simple lift off hatch cover. In such a small boat, storage space is so limited, and you would be amazed how much area there is down the midline of the boat. Extra ropes, crab floats, misc crap, is now in there.

Well any more comments on my original issue - let them fly. Thanks again.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:18 PM   #6
carljswede
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Smile Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimuki49 View Post
i am an experienced boat person, and have a great marine shop do the work on my boat and motor, so i am not coming from a dark hole lol. but i want other opinions (second and third ideas never hurt).

i run a 40 hp on my 16ft spectrum which is totally rigged for fishing (and crabbing) and i need to replace the electric kicker with something that could actually run the darn boat in an emergency (like at mouth of netarts or tillamook bays) if there were an engine failure (and wrong tide ripping out etc etc).

i cant go very large on the engine so have settled on a 4 to 6 hp. the spectrum is not wide and wt at the transom is very noticable. ok finally the question:
i would need a long shaft if mounted it on the transom directly, but could put a bracket and use a short shaft. i am in the process of finding a good dependable engine, but often its hard to locate long shafts. can any of you think of a reason that a short shaft mounted on a bracket would be a bad idea?

thank you kindly in advance. tmm (and this engine would be entirely an emergency motor - not used for trolling)
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:21 PM   #7
carljswede
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

I have a 19ft Bayliner outdrive, and recently purchased a Nissan 6hp 4 stroke, lots of torque and pushes my boat great, a peppy little motor, long shaft would be your best bet, if you are interested, I'll give you the dealer that handles Nissan.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:42 PM   #8
nunyet
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

I would look into a permanent bracket that you just need to tip the motor up, and not the bracket you can use a very lite 2-stroke. I have a 2 horse mercury only about 20 pounds and internal fuel tank . Has enough power to give hull speed.

nunyet
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:25 PM   #9
Connelly
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Mount it on the transom. Closer to you makes the engine eaiser to handle. OMC/trolling motor brackets suck. Money, parts and the up and down hastle.

The engine shaft lenth is determined by the lenth of your transom where you mount the motor. 15" - short shaft, 20" - long shaft, 25" x-long shaft.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:29 PM   #10
Corky 3
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

The right length of trolling motor shaft to get for your boat is to measure from the transom or from a bracket (in the down, or trolling position) to the bottom of your boat. Hold a yardstick or a straight stick along the bottom of your boat sticking out to where the trolling motor would enter the water. Take a tape measure and measure the distance. This will tell you the correct length of shaft you should have for your boat. Remember, weight is everything. The farther you have your motor sticking out the back of the boat the more butt heavy you will be and the heavier you are in the aft area, the longer it will take you to get out of the hole and on plane. Too much weight aft might not plane the boat very well either. Might porpoise on you. Balance on a boat is critical for a decent plane. Get a motor with enough horsepower so it will push you upstream against a current or against a heavy wind. Check the weight on your trolling motor. Some are a lot heavier then others rated the same horsepower. That is just my worth. Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:45 PM   #11
kaimuki49
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

CONNELLY & CORKY - thanks. as i said initially, i know the short, long, xtra long shaft routines, but your comments about the more the engine hangs out back off the transom (like on a bracket) is the kind of very useful input i was seeking. i would use the "kicker" entirely as an emergency engine, but wanted to minimize how much i threw the whole lay of the boat off.

so your guys recommendation would be to use a transom mounted, long shaft, rather than a bracket mounted short? the main reason i was toying with the whole short shaft bracket mounted idea was that i have been having a hard time finding a good, dependable long shaft in the 4 to 6 hp range. i guess i will keeping looking and hopefully something will show up. and by your reasoning, i should mount the spare as close to center as i safely can right (meaning allowing for the turning arch of the engines so they dont contact)? thanks again. different perspectives often shed a lot of light, i appreciate yir thoughts. t
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:09 PM   #12
Tinman
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Try to avoid a bracket, they are notorious weak spots. They also add weight. For a 16 footer, you don't need a lot of horsepower. And since it is for emergencies only, you don't need a lot of features such as multiple cylinders, gearshift etc. I had a single-cylinder 3.5 hp Tohatsu that I used as an emergency kicker on my old 15 foot Bayrunner. Granted, it was a very light hull with a 25 hp main, but the 3.5 was plenty of power. As I recall, the motor only weighed 35 pounds (two-stroke). It had an integral 1 quart fuel tank and a forward/neutral gearshift. To get reverse, I had to turn the motor 180 degrees. Being single-cylinder, it rattled my teeth out. It would be awful to troll with.

BUT....it was compact, lightweight, and reliable for emergency service.

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Old 12-05-2010, 06:33 PM   #13
Green Machine
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

With a short shaft on a bracket the power head is also too low. One big wave and your motor is swamped!.

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Old 12-05-2010, 07:47 PM   #14
flatman
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

ill tell you what. i bet if you get a kicker that is decent and you can start easily and reach, you will use it alot more than you think. after i got my t8 i find i use it more than the main. anytime i am going to be 6 mph or less i use that, also i have steering up front, so i can steer the kicker with my main down as it acts like a rudder. or steer from the back of the boat with the kicker handle.
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Old 12-05-2010, 11:34 PM   #15
kaimuki49
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Try to avoid a bracket, they are notorious weak spots. They also add weight. For a 16 footer, you don't need a lot of horsepower. And since it is for emergencies only, you don't need a lot of features such as multiple cylinders, gearshift etc. I had a single-cylinder 3.5 hp Tohatsu that I used as an emergency kicker on my old 15 foot Bayrunner. Granted, it was a very light hull with a 25 hp main, but the 3.5 was plenty of power. As I recall, the motor only weighed 35 pounds (two-stroke). It had an integral 1 quart fuel tank and a forward/neutral gearshift. To get reverse, I had to turn the motor 180 degrees. Being single-cylinder, it rattled my teeth out. It would be awful to troll with.

BUT....it was compact, lightweight, and reliable for emergency service.

TINN - tanks. ha ha when i first saw that picture it looked like the tree and tree house/platform was in the center of your boat!

but by looking at the pic - which was great, thanks - it looks like the shaft from the small kicker would not reach into enough water when lowered. Would it? It doesnt look like a long shaft - is it?

In any event I appreciate all of your thoughtful comments - I am going to do what my gut told me from the beginning: use a small, light, self contained gas engine. IF ANYONE HAS A LEAD ON ONE, PLEASE TELL ME.

Regards and mele kalikimaka, tmm
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:40 AM   #16
Tinman
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Default Re: Kicker on transom or bracket?

It is a long shaft, and you are right, the prop did not hang below the bottom of the boat much. But it did worked ok. Sometimes the prop would ventilate at full throttle, however. Make sure the water intake is properly submerged. Best of luck.
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