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Old 11-23-2010, 10:08 AM   #1
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Angry 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

The Wild Fish Conservancy and the Humane Society of the US seem to have won this round.



November 23, 2010
Federal Appeals Court Blocks Sea Lion Killing at Bonneville Dam


SAN FRANCISCO — The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has halted the National Marine Fisheries Service’s program to kill federally protected sea lions at the Bonneville Dam on the Washington and Oregon border. The Court, ruling on an appeal filed by The Humane Society of the United States and the Wild Fish Conservancy, found that the agency had failed to explain how the killing of sea lions is consistent with the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
“The government’s plan to kill sea lions for eating fish, while at the same time authorizing fishermen to take four times as many fish as sea lions is irrational, and the court has rightly put a stop to it,” said Jonathan R. Lovvorn, vice president & chief counsel for animal protection litigation for The HSUS. “It’s time for the agency to abandon this plan and work cooperatively with us to protect both sea lions and salmon in the Columbia River.”
In 2008, The HSUS and the other plaintiffs asked the Ninth Circuit to stop the killing of sea lions after a federal district court in Oregon denied plaintiffs’ request for an injunction. The lawsuit challenges NMFS’ conclusion that sea lions must be killed to prevent them from consuming an average of 0.4 to 4.2 percent of salmon returns, even as the agency allows fishermen to take up to 17 percent of the salmon run.
“Blaming sea lions is nothing but a distraction,” said Kurt Beardslee, executive director of Wild Fish Conservancy. “We’re glad the Court recognized that the agency must consider its salmon conservation decisions openly and carefully, considering all impacts to salmon — including dams, fisheries and habitat degradation.”
Federal law only allows the killing of sea lions when the agency proves they are having a significant negative impact on salmon. The court found that the agency failed to reconcile its conclusion that sea lions are having a “significant negative impact” on salmon with the agency’s previous finding “that fisheries that cause similar or greater mortality among these populations are not having significant negative impacts.”
-30-
The Humane Society of the United States is the nation's largest animal protection organization — backed by 11 million Americans, or one of every 28. For more than a half-century, The HSUS has been fighting for the protection of all animals through advocacy, education and hands-on programs. Celebrating animals and confronting cruelty — On the Web at humanesociety.org.
Wild Fish Conservancy is a non-profit organization dedicated to the recovery and conservation of the Northwest region's wild-fish ecosystems, with about 2,400 members. Wild Fish Conservancy's staff of over 20 professional scientists, advocates, and educators work to promote technically and socially responsible habitat, hatchery, and harvest management to better sustain the region's wild fish heritage.

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Old 11-23-2010, 10:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

I would have to think that any given sea lion eats more salmon in 3-5 days than my entire network of fellow fisherman and friends eats in an entire year. How do they justify sport fisherman eating more than four times that of the sea lions.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE STURGEON.

When the humane society has a reputation building the way they do, there should be some one on the other side of the bench limiting their time in front of the court.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

Gotta love contradictory groups like HSUS and others. The sea lions are obviously causing damage to the salmon and sturgeon populations on the columbia river and elsewhere.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:15 AM   #4
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Another example of why I think fishing for salmon and hunting on public land we be history within two generations. It will end up like Europe. Only canned hunts on private land.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

The court needs to actually visit the site and watcj the carnage!
Talk about miss use of public monies!
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

Wait what? The Wild Fish Conservancy wants to stop the killing of sea lions that kill ESA fish?? Can someone enlighten me on their stance?
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

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Wait what? The Wild Fish Conservancy wants to stop the killing of sea lions that kill ESA fish?? Can someone enlighten me on their stance?
As far as I can tell from their web site, the Wild Fish Conservancy is opposed to all fishing except for catch and release fly fishing - (look at who sponsors their auction, etc). I think they like the Humane Society look at this as a way to attack hatchery production and consumptive fisheries.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

My guess, I think it goes like this:

NMFS or whoever estimates the mortality of sea lions on the listed salmon runs.

NMFS, ODFW, WDFW or whoever estimates the allowable incidental harvest of listed salmon runs by sportfishing for hatchery fish.

Apparently the sea lion mortality is much lower than the sportfishing--not sure of their data on this.

NMFS can only kill the sea lions if there is "significant mortality"--not sure how this is quantified?

Wild Fish Conservancy best I can tell is trying to point out that there are much bigger problems that need to be addressed facing the runs than sea lions even though the sea lions killing of fish is so visible.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:01 AM   #9
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So a court in California is making decesions on what practices are performed on a river that isn't even in their state? And as stated above what about the sturgeon? Maybe I'm not all there and a little slow but what the heck does a judge in California know about the Columbia River and/or Bonneville Damn? Shouldn't this hearing be in Oregon or Washington as this is the place of the dispute?
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

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So a court in California is making decesions on what practices are performed on a river that isn't even in their state? And as stated above what about the sturgeon? Maybe I'm not all there and a little slow but what the heck does a judge in California know about the Columbia River and/or Bonneville Damn? Shouldn't this hearing be in Oregon or Washington as this is the place of the dispute?
The court might be in the California, but the 9th covers 9 states and two foreign possessions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._Ninth_Circuit

The original decision came from the Federal Court here in Oregon, the decision is than appealed in the appeals court which in this case is in California
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

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Originally Posted by Driften View Post
So a court in California is making decesions on what practices are performed on a river that isn't even in their state? And as stated above what about the sturgeon? Maybe I'm not all there and a little slow but what the heck does a judge in California know about the Columbia River and/or Bonneville Damn? Shouldn't this hearing be in Oregon or Washington as this is the place of the dispute?
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:13 AM   #12
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The court might be in the California, but the 9th covers 9 states and two foreign possessions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._Ninth_Circuit

The original decision came from the Federal Court here in Oregon, the decision is than appealed in the appeals court which in this case is in California
Thanks for doing the dirty work for me stickfish but still cornfused a bit it says
"Headquartered in San Francisco, California, the Ninth Circuit is by far the largest of the thirteen courts of appeals, with 29 active judgeships. The court's regular meeting places are Seattle at the William K. Nakamura Courthouse, Portland at the Pioneer Courthouse, San Francisco at the James R. Browning U.S. Court of Appeals Building, and Pasadena at the Richard H. Chambers U.S. Court of Appeals, but panels of the court occasionally travel to hear cases in other locations within its territorial jurisdiction. Although the judges travel around the circuit, the court arranges its hearings so that cases from the northern region of the circuit are heard in Seattle or Portland, cases from southern California are heard in Pasadena, and cases from northern California, Nevada, Arizona, and Hawaii are heard in San Francisco. For lawyers who must come and present their cases to the court in person, this administrative grouping of cases helps to reduce the time and cost of travel."
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

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Thanks for doing the dirty work for me stickfish but still cornfused a bit it says
"Headquartered in San Francisco, California, the Ninth Circuit is by far the largest of the thirteen courts of appeals, with 29 active judgeships. The court's regular meeting places are Seattle at the William K. Nakamura Courthouse, Portland at the Pioneer Courthouse, San Francisco at the James R. Browning U.S. Court of Appeals Building, and Pasadena at the Richard H. Chambers U.S. Court of Appeals, but panels of the court occasionally travel to hear cases in other locations within its territorial jurisdiction. Although the judges travel around the circuit, the court arranges its hearings so that cases from the northern region of the circuit are heard in Seattle or Portland, cases from southern California are heard in Pasadena, and cases from northern California, Nevada, Arizona, and Hawaii are heard in San Francisco. For lawyers who must come and present their cases to the court in person, this administrative grouping of cases helps to reduce the time and cost of travel."
I don't know the rules on where a case will be herd depending on where the appeal came from. I suspect that the appeal was filed in California, but I don't think it really matters where the case was herd, the same judge(s) would have heard it. The 9th circuit has had some very unique cases that have really separated itself from the rest of the circuit courts, my only direct involvement with the 9th has been in tax law and that was a few years ago. I'm also wondering here if the press release is posted from the courts HQ. If someone finds the filings they can probably tell exactly what transpired.

The long and short of it is NMFS will have to go back to the drawing board on this, where it will end is probably right where it is now, the groups fighting this have WAY more resources to fight this. I don't agree, but I'm not surprised either.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

The sea lions will always be there and so will the fish. I'm glad I don't get shot for buying a steak.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:27 AM   #15
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And this is why they should have taken quick and drastic measures as soon as the ok was given...the population would have been down significantly, and they would have got some relief for the fish.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:28 AM   #16
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I agree with the decision.
Get the nets out. Regulate the international fisheries practices, improve and mitigate habitat issues, and improve native and hatchery stocks. And then let's talk about killing sea lions in front of a man made barrier

"Look whose calling the kettle black."

Hypocrisy is not very attractive nor effective when trying to persuade an argument in ones own favor......

BCF not crying about sea lions.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: 9th Curcuit Sea Lion Decision

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Originally Posted by Farfish View Post
As far as I can tell from their web site, the Wild Fish Conservancy is opposed to all fishing except for catch and release fly fishing - (look at who sponsors their auction, etc). I think they like the Humane Society look at this as a way to attack hatchery production and consumptive fisheries.
You know it is so interesting how every fishing group has their own agenda that essentialy pits people against each other. I bet if everyone actually came together and worked together more could and would be accomplished. Lets face it, we all have the desire or incentive to want fish to survive in the long run.

In fact I bet that the commercial and sport's share some very common ground on the sea lion issue.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

Seems our side needs better lawyers because their side always seems to win. On every issue. Every time...
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:46 AM   #19
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Seems our side needs better lawyers because their side always seems to win. On every issue. Every time...
So, your side is to kill innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat?
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:46 AM   #20
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I agree with the decision.
Get the nets out. Regulate the international fisheries practices, improve and mitigate habitat issues, and improve native and hatchery stocks. And then let's talk about killing sea lions in front of a man made barrier

"Look whose calling the kettle black."

Hypocrisy is not very attractive nor effective when trying to persuade an argument in ones own favor......

BCF not crying about sea lions.
Exactly.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:54 AM   #21
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So, your side is to kill innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat?
So, your side is to protect innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat? To protect those cute little, innocent creatures?

Yeah, let's just get rid of all hunting and fishing like Kitt wants and not manage animals and keep their populations at healthy, sustainable levels.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tony270WSM View Post
So, your side is to protect innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat? To protect those cute little, innocent creatures?

Yeah, let's just get rid of all hunting and fishing like Kitt wants and not manage animals and keep their populations at healthy, sustainable levels.
I fish and I'm a former bow hunter. I just don't think that's the answer. To shoot them. We could go on and on about all of the other problems facing the species and the declining runs from habitat to La Nina'. And I never said anything about "cute little innocents" If you shoot mom and dad, junior is just going to swim up and eat the fish, then you have to shoot junior too. Like I said, I'm glad I don't get shot for buying a steak.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:06 PM   #23
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Point is if their population really is getting too large, they need to be controlled in some manner. And in some places there really is too many.

Why don't the Indians go after them like they do whales and salmon and elk? Or do they?
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:07 PM   #24
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May the recent leptospirosis outbreak will take care of those sea lions!
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:09 PM   #25
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I fish and I'm a former bow hunter. I just don't think that's the answer. To shoot them. We could go on and on about all of the other problems facing the species and the declining runs from habitat to La Nina'. And I never said anything about "cute little innocents" If you shoot mom and dad, junior is just going to swim up and eat the fish, then you have to shoot junior too. Like I said, I'm glad I don't get shot for buying a steak.
or maybe junior would learn that it wasn't a heathly place to hang out.....

http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/re...oaa99r128.html
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:09 PM   #26
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Point is if their population really is getting too large, they need to be controlled in some manner. And in some places there really is too many.

Why don't the Indians go after them like they do whales and salmon and elk? Or do they?
I agree that excessive populations of one species contributes to the demise of another, but the sea lions are not going to wipe out the runs. Plain and simple, they're just not. There are heavier pressures on the fish than pinnipeds.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:10 PM   #27
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or maybe junior would learn that it wasn't a heathly place to hang out.....

http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/re...oaa99r128.html

I don't think junior's that smart
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

I've often wondered what would happen if the tribes asserted a traditional tribal right to harvest sea lions.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:19 PM   #29
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I think Darwin would disagree sooner then later junior would get it or junior would be no more BUT there would still be plenty of his kind that freely swam the planet including the Columbia River just NOT right below bonneville damn.....
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:25 PM   #30
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I've often wondered what would happen if the tribes asserted a traditional tribal right to harvest sea lions.
I think that is a better solution than a couple of gun slingers hurling their carcass' into a dump truck. At least the Native Americans will harvest them and use them for the benefit of the tribes.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BCF View Post
I agree with the decision.
Get the nets out. Regulate the international fisheries practices, improve and mitigate habitat issues, and improve native and hatchery stocks. And then let's talk about killing sea lions in front of a man made barrier

"Look whose calling the kettle black."

Hypocrisy is not very attractive nor effective when trying to persuade an argument in ones own favor......

BCF not crying about sea lions.
While I mostly agree with the decision for the same reasons BCF stated here... there is a part of me that thinks the selions have become too brazen and need to have their natural fear of man reinforced.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:40 PM   #32
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I think that is a better solution than a couple of gun slingers hurling their carcass' into a dump truck. At least the Native Americans will harvest them and use them for the benefit of the tribes.
I'm all for Indians steping up to the plate but really let's not go as far to say they would use it all that much if I remember there was a tribe that killed a few gray whales while back if I recall alot of that went to waste because well let's face it whale meat isn't that steak you buy at the store, we all have become accustom to not eating whale and given the choice I bet most would rather have the steak, salmon, or chicken.....speaking of which if you or your family and firends frequented one store that started having people shot outside of the door how long until you found a new store to buy that steak at? Tissue please.

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Old 11-23-2010, 12:46 PM   #33
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I'm all for Indians steping up to the plate but really let's not go as far to say they would use it all that much if I remember there was a tribe that killed a few gray whales while back if I recall alot of that went to waste because well let's face it whale meat isn't that steak you buy at the store, we all have become accustom to not eating whale and given the choice I bet most would rather have the steak, salmon, or chicken.....speaking of which if you or your family and firends frequented one store that started having people shot outside of the door how long until you found a new store to buy that steak at? Tissue please.
Come now, apples and oranges. Besides, they can't go to a different store. There's a huge wall between them and the other market place.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:57 PM   #34
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Come now, apples and oranges. Besides, they can't go to a different store. There's a huge wall between them and the other market place.
not sure how either sealions or whales taste Or of there uses today to native Americans and truthfully I like them better swimming the deep blue, but I see no wall between the mouth of the columbia and bonneville damn and there's a whole lot of stores (so to speak) on the ocean and anywhere else below bonneville say a mile below the damn and it's all there's....The sealions near the Ballard locks found "another store" why can't the sealions of the Columbia too....maybe we need a sealion compact or sealion court of appeals to step in good debate guys i am enjoying it thanks for keeping it clean and fun! Always nice to see/hear the other side of the coin.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:58 PM   #35
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Come now, apples and oranges. Besides, they can't go to a different store. There's a huge wall between them and the other market place.
They can't go to a different store? Give me a break, big ocean, many fish, fish not just at dam. Let's not forget the number of salmon and sturgeon that are eaten between the mouth of the river and the dam.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:09 PM   #36
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They can't go to a different store? Give me a break, big ocean, many fish, fish not just at dam. Let's not forget the number of salmon and sturgeon that are eaten between the mouth of the river and the dam.
I'd be interested in how successful the sealions are at catching salmon in lower river compared to below the damn, i know there alot more successful when the fish is attached to my line! Bit truthfully is there a differance in the numbers?
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:09 PM   #37
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I'm just sayin', they get to the dam and hang out there because, well, it's a dam and it impedes further migration. I guess they are not of a mind to swim all the way back, but what do I know, I'm not a sea lion.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:20 PM   #38
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I'm just sayin', they get to the dam and hang out there because, well, it's a dam and it impedes further migration. I guess they are not of a mind to swim all the way back, but what do I know, I'm not a sea lion.
but if you detered them and made the damn a unhealthy/unsafe/unpleasant place to be all of a sudden they head elsewhere to find more peaceful, successful and most importantly less dangerous place to shop... Which (not sure on this) would lessen there impact on upriver runs and ESA listed fish, and possibly there success rate, which would also possibly deter them and if they aren't as successful they may not be as good at reproducing and bringing junior back to daddies favorite buffet. For the record sealions are just one of many problems facing our salmon runs and by NO means the only thing we need to address. Just happens to be the topic of this thread.

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Old 11-23-2010, 01:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

As far as the "killing" of such animals, why in the world don't we practice what we humans have learned many many years ago: BIRTH CONTROL!

Feed them a few free samples of wonderful fresh fish that has some birth control prescription in it. Easy done and then no laws are broken and there is no "killing" and all is good! Science and mankind at it's best.

EASY SOLUTION!!! No harm no foul!

Let's start a movement/petition w/state agencies to get that in motion.

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Old 11-23-2010, 01:29 PM   #40
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I'm just sayin', they get to the dam and hang out there because, well, it's a dam and it impedes further migration. I guess they are not of a mind to swim all the way back, but what do I know, I'm not a sea lion.
It's not so much the salmon that concerns me, it is the sturgeon. This a fish that takes years to mature. If the Native Fish Society really had there priorities straight, they would be tooth and nail w/ the HSUS to get some sort of plan in place to rid this area of this predator.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:29 PM   #41
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So, your side is to kill innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat?
We are just doing what other animals do. When something else competes for your food, you kill it. We are, after all, animals too.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:30 PM   #42
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but if you detered them and made the damn a unhealthy/unsafe/unpleasant place to be all of a sudden they head elsewhere to find more peaceful, successful and most importantly less dangerous place to shop... Which (not sure on this) would lessen there impact on upriver runs and ESA listed fish, and possibly there success rate, which would also possibly deter them and if they aren't as successful they may not be as good at reproducing and bringing junior back to daddies favorite buffet. For the record sealions are just one of many problems facing our salmon runs and by NO means the only thing we need to address. Just happens to be the topic of this thread.
It is definately a dilemna. I wish there was a better, simpler way than shooting them like "fish in a barrel". Watch the Cove if you haven't seen it. It's not about population contol, it's about profit, but it's still slaughter. It might change your mind on that kind of population control.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:38 PM   #43
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

I see many trains of thought here. Correct me if I see this wrong...

1.Shoot the sea lions and control their population in doing so. (Much like the wild life folks control the hunt for deer/elk/wolves/sheep etc.) Issue tags for a specie of sea lion or seal?

2. Let the sea lions control themselves and dwindle down the weak on their own as any naturally wild creature does.

3. Applaud the humane society who is against any variety of killing be it natural or human. We need to make our appeal for the salmon and sturgeon. Don't they have a right to live as well? Are they not just swimming around as the sea lions do in search of food? No one should be killing them either right??? Really now... what are we thinking?? Just how does prey and predator work into the humane societies ideals?

This reminds me of a Johnny Cash song.... Will the circle be unbroken by and by Lord by and by.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:41 PM   #44
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We are just doing what other animals do. When something else competes for your food, you kill it. We are, after all, animals too.
An example of this please if I'm understanding this right, I thought we are the only or one of very few Species (I can't think of any others) that kills another species purely for the means of lessening there competion with us, and not utilizing that which we killed.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:49 PM   #45
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Another way to look at it would be to say: "don't feed the wildlife". They have been surviving on their own for millions of years. It causes hierarchy in the ranks and too much dependence on humans. We step in and screw everything up.

Isn't it WE who are the guilty ones with our factories and dams, impeding on the wildlife and causing a portion of their (the fish) decline. The sea lions are just doing what they've done for millions of years, concentrated in one area because we built a structure they can't swim over.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:01 PM   #46
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I see many trains of thought here. Correct me if I see this wrong...

1.Shoot the sea lions and control their population in doing so. (Much like the wild life folks control the hunt for deer/elk/wolves/sheep etc.) Issue tags for a specie of sea lion or seal?

2. Let the sea lions control themselves and dwindle down the weak on their own as any naturally wild creature does.

3. Applaud the humane society who is against any variety of killing be it natural or human. We need to make our appeal for the salmon and sturgeon. Don't they have a right to live as well? Are they not just swimming around as the sea lions do in search of food? No one should be killing them either right??? Really now... what are we thinking?? Just how does prey and predator work into the humane societies ideals?

This reminds me of a Johnny Cash song.... Will the circle be unbroken by and by Lord by and by.
I'm not disagreeing with you, we do buy hunting tags, but we don't corral the game and take pot shots at them.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:11 PM   #47
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Another way to look at it would be to say: "don't feed the wildlife". They have been surviving on their own for millions of years. It causes hierarchy in the ranks and too much dependence on humans. We step in and screw everything up.

Isn't it WE who are the guilty ones with our factories and dams, impeding on the wildlife and causing a portion of their (the fish) decline. The sea lions are just doing what they've done for millions of years, concentrated in one area because we built a structure they can't swim over.
It's kind of a double edged sword we built the damn which has caused and increase in predation on salmon that pass through the Columbia river so it's your opinion that cute furry sealions be protected because we have created this problem....so are we not responsible for trying to mitagate/fix the damage the damns have created in all species? Under this assumption don't salmon and sturgeon deserve a fair shot too...oh but there slimy plentiful and not mammals and just food so really not nearly as important as the cute little sea dog.....so which would you most likely feed your starving family with if you lived 400 years ago? Which species feeds many many families still today? Not saying that sealions aren't important or deserve to live just saying I see salmon as just as important and deserving of protection.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:22 PM   #48
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I'm just sayin', they get to the dam and hang out there because, well, it's a dam and it impedes further migration. I guess they are not of a mind to swim all the way back, but what do I know, I'm not a sea lion.
Sea lions are extremely smart. Fish keg up at the dam, sea lions eat the fish. Next step in the chain should be man, the apex predator, takes out the sea lions!
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #49
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It's kind of a double edged sword we built the damn which has caused and increase in predation on salmon that pass through the Columbia river so it's your opinion that cute furry sealions be protected because we have created this problem....so are we not responsible for trying to mitagate/fix the damage the damns have created in all species? Under this assumption don't salmon and sturgeon deserve a fair shot too...oh but there slimy plentiful and not mammals and just food so really not nearly as important as the cute little sea dog.....so which would you most likely feed your starving family with if you lived 400 years ago? Which species feeds many many families still today? Not saying that sealions aren't important or deserve to live just saying I see salmon as just as important and deserving of protection.
Hey, I like a good piece of smoked salmon as much as the next girl, and yes, it's a problem, but I just hate the thought of how the slaughter would go down, and that's what it would be, slaughter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you worried about the salmon and sturgeon at the dam persay, or are you worried that junior will steal it from you while you're killing it with a hook in its gut?
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:39 PM   #50
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Hey, I like a good piece of smoked salmon as much as the next girl, and yes, it's a problem, but I just hate the thought of how the slaughter would go down, and that's what it would be, slaughter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you worried about the salmon and sturgeon at the dam persay, or are you worried that junior will steal it from you while you're killing it with a hook in its gut?
The slaughter is kind of the point of it. It will send out a "message" to the other fur bags that theres "no free meal here". How about you go and watch them eat the fish at the damn and tell everyone what you think of that slaughter. These animals have been becoming a bigger and bigger issue on the river for years.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:49 PM   #51
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The slaughter is kind of the point of it. It will send out a "message" to the other fur bags that theres "no free meal here". How about you go and watch them eat the fish at the damn and tell everyone what you think of that slaughter. These animals have been becoming a bigger and bigger issue on the river for years.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it's a problem, but apparently the only solution is to put a bullet between their eyes. I just wish there was a better way, that's all.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:36 PM   #52
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Sea lions are extremely smart. Fish keg up at the dam, sea lions eat the fish. Next step in the chain should be man, the apex predator, takes out the sea lions!
Well said Kyle. If there not smart... Why do they hang behind the hogline and wait for someone to stand up in there boat, knowing that boat has a fish on?
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:39 PM   #53
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I'm sure many would if they could, the sea lions cause the same harm to the fish they are going for. But I bet the same groups would go after the indians for this as they did regarding the whales.
While the Makah's could show a history of whale hunting, probably be tough for the Warm Springs or Yakama's to show a history of sea lion hunting! Probably don't want to go down that road, might open up a lot of doors!
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:43 PM   #54
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

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As far as the "killing" of such animals, why in the world don't we practice what we humans have learned many many years ago: BIRTH CONTROL!

Feed them a few free samples of wonderful fresh fish that has some birth control prescription in it. Easy done and then no laws are broken and there is no "killing" and all is good! Science and mankind at it's best.

EASY SOLUTION!!! No harm no foul!

Let's start a movement/petition w/state agencies to get that in motion.

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Chillyone Happy Thanksgiving!
My doctor told me one a couple years ago about a townhall meeting from Montana that was on a cable station.
It seems that a grad student had received a grant that allowed him to live trap and spay/neuter the coyotes that were eating sheep.
after a good power-point presentation about how the numbers of coyotes had declined, a sheep farmer stood up and commented 'you don't seem to understand the coyotes are EATING the sheep.
I think it is the same with sea lions.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:44 PM   #55
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While the Makah's could show a history of whale hunting, probably be tough for the Warm Springs or Yakama's to show a history of sea lion hunting! Probably don't want to go down that road, might open up a lot of doors!
But there are lower columbia tribes that could step up to the plate. Maybe that would be a good thing to put in the treaty that I heard the Cowlitz tribe is trying to get.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:05 PM   #56
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So, your side is to protect innocent animals for doing what they're born to do, swim and eat? To protect those cute little, innocent creatures?

Yeah, let's just get rid of all hunting and fishing like Kitt wants and not manage animals and keep their populations at healthy, sustainable levels.

This statement is very flawed. Have we been managing our animal and fish populations well? And why is the idea of sustainable management so offensive?

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Old 11-23-2010, 05:13 PM   #57
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We are just doing what other animals do. When something else competes for your food, you kill it. We are, after all, animals too.
If this actually true there would be a lot more killing on the hoglines in my opinion.

So I am gonna go FALSE on this one....

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Old 11-23-2010, 05:25 PM   #58
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Ok for one 30 years ago you very seldom seen a sea lion above Astoria and now they are clear up to bonneville dam. In 1995 national marine fisheries said there were at least 6000 sea lions between the mouth of the columbia river and bonneville dam, so if each one of those cute little sea lions eat or kill say only 3 salmon, steelhead, sturgeon a day what is that doing for the fish runs?????
Lets get some congressmen, senators, govenors and any other person of high power and have them dock their boat at the East end morring basin and watch their reaction to all the sea lions laying on the docks they are slowly distroying and they cannot get past them to get to their 50,000 dollar or more boat, as the law reads you cannot harrass those cute little marine mammals.........This is so crazy its not funny.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:48 PM   #59
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

The Ballard locks in Seattle. A run of native steelhead was eracated due to Sealions. Remember Hershal ? Very sad to see it happen under our eyes. We were powerless to do anything about it. The Game dept. did not want to see that happen again at Bonneville. The sealions don`t differ between native or hachery springers.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:38 PM   #60
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Default Re: 9th Circuit Sea Lion Decision

I said it in another thread, that with our latest win, that now PETA is going to have all the time in the world to challenge it. Sure did not take long at all.
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