Snag-fest on the Rogue!!!!!!!

Fishing freak · 07-09-2002, 01:15 PM

I recently spent my 2 week vacation on the upper Rogue river ( yearly event) and I was
appalled at what i was witnessing. This was at one time my beloved river. Now it has turned
into a snag-fest. I have never seen such blatant attempts to snag and/or keeping of foul
hooked fish. The method of choice by these so called fisherman is to use as small of bead
or corkie as possible so not to impede the hook as they jerk it across the bottom from the
second it lands at the bottom until the hook is retrieved. This was occurring in plain sight
at virtually fishing hole along the upper river. Then you have the boaters that pull into the
holes that are not accessible from the road just so they think they are safe. The sad part
it is that after spending 10 days on the river drifting I only saw one law enforcement official
( my first day drifting) and he was more concerned in giving tickets out to rafters who were
rafting while intoxicated. I resorted to grabbing my binoculars and staring down any fisherman
who was pulling the salmon in by the tail and sideways to let them know that they were being
watched. This was never the case when I was growing up on this river. Must be a sign of the
times. :whazzup:

07-09-2002, 01:21 PM

It's disgusting! :depressed:

I won't fish the upper river after trying it once.

Fishing freak · 07-09-2002, 02:17 PM

Where are the gammies on this stretch of the river????????????????? I have never seen a bigger bunch of A**holes. Unfortunately my girlfriend had my cell phone :depressed:

baitslinger · 07-09-2002, 03:04 PM

Hi Freak

I found the same thing here about 12 years ago. About the most blatant snagging of salmon i've seen, made me wonder if it wasn't legal? I think it might be good to open part of the river to snagging, and then all these meatheads would be concentrated in one spot. Maybe then at least the remainder of the water would be limited to "sport only", as of course it should be? What do ya think?

07-09-2002, 03:18 PM

NEVER ALLOW SNAGING!!!

Paddlefish · 07-09-2002, 03:23 PM

Baitslinger,

The state of Washington tried a snaggery fishery for a surplus of fall cohos about 1970, in a very limited area below the Washougal River hatchery.

The neanderthals came out of the woodwork! :shocked: I had never thought of strap-on Bowie knives and machetes as "standard fishing gear" up until then. I saw "fishermen" on opposite sides of the river simultaneously hook the same fish: just about suspended that adult coho on a cross-river highwire.

Unfortunately, some of those who had more than a single functioning brain cell began to wonder, "If it's okay to snag these fish here, what's wrong with intercepting the same fish a few miles farther downriver, using all these new 'skills' we've learned? Or maybe on another river?"

Those fisheries officials trying to manage a simultaneous summer steelhead run in the same river weren't too excited about that prospect, you can be sure.

Anyway, the "experiment" lasted, I think, a couple of years before being abandoned as a bad idea. There are too many jerks snagging fish already; let's not openly train more!

One story comes to mind, however. A buddy of mine was trying to fish legitimately in the open lower river when he was joined by a couple of the would-be snaggers. (This was in the days 'way before cell phones, by the way.)

He watched them for a couple of minutes, then announced, "If I see you jerk on that rod like that one more time, I'm coming back on duty." The two lowlifes left quickly. :grin:

M W Sheller · 07-09-2002, 04:49 PM

With out ethics, there is no sport!!!!!!!!!!!
If a person has to cheat to sucsseed, he has earned the rite to brag on his sucsess. If these "people" are snagging for meat, they can certainly get it cheaper at the super market.
And then there are the low life, testosterone overloaded, pin-heads that are proud of the way they have "out smarted" the law

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]
Unfortunatly, there aren't enough game cops in the field, not because the state is under-funded, but because our tax bucks are being miss-spent, but that is another issue.
Peer-pressure is the only workable solution to this, and a multitude of other social issues [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] ?

Cast'n'Blast · 07-09-2002, 07:18 PM

I saw the same thing last year at Finnley Bend..I think that's what it's called....was just out for a cruise with my girlfriend and then we went down to watch-it was ridiculous-these people thought they were actually fishing.....and then I had to convince her they weren't. She just thought they were better than me :whazzup:

Straydog · 07-09-2002, 08:14 PM

Unfortunately this is not a new thing on the upper river.

I quit fishing up there around 1980 because I was disgusted with the crap going on.

What is even more embarassing is when the fools go to fist fighting over who's rock is whom's or who gets to keep the fish when there are three or more hooks in it's side.

I saw a guide friend almost get drowned at Casey park back then.

07-09-2002, 08:27 PM

M W Sheller,
Peer pressure does not work on

cretins

and their "peers are doing the same BS. If it will make everyone feel better one of the guys that I worked with was over at the dead line and saw an under cover trooper ( :grin: nice looking woman in a bakini :grin: ) working with two uniformed troopers passing out MANY TICKETS!
Some time they are in the right place doing their job. :smile:

Fishing freak · 07-10-2002, 07:15 AM

I basically stopped fishing the upper Rogue for Salmon in the early 80's. I still spend alot of time with my son trout/steelie fishing in the upper Rogue. I hear that their are game officials working the hatchery hole, but I didn't see one ticket being given out during my 10 or so float trips through the area. Some of the so called "fisherman" on the west bank of the river litterally drag their salmon downstream away from the crowds,net the fish and remove the hooks under water and wala they have a biter. I personally witnessed snagged/kept fish on numerous occasions and the snagging/attempting snagging got worse the further down stream i went.
A saw the same 2-3 boats everyday at the pump hole ( about 2 miles downstream) that had
had 2-3 people per boat. These boats made absolutely NO attempt to legally hook a fish. One cast, 3-4 hard yanks and reel it on in. This was happening on every cast. I wonder what the fine is for attempted snagging? I had numerous people tell me "I have hooked 10 fish today and haven't been able to land a damn 1" Show me someone who hooks 10 fish and loses them all and I will show you a professional snagger. It is sad when you go up to the fish ladder and virtually every fish coming over has snag marks or fishing gear hanging from their tail/back and
side.

Straydog · 07-10-2002, 08:44 AM

Fish Freak,

About the time you and I stopped joining in the combat fishers in the upper river, the OSP was writing people for what they called "Aggressive Jerking".

I don't know what became of this but I have heard nothing about it for years and wonder if the expense of defending themselves in court may have eliminated the practice.

Is one setting the hook or jerking fish? I think you and I know the answer to this but proving that in court is another thing.

On the other hand, with the small video cameras this could be proven fairly easily.

As much as I hate to say it, I believe our answer comes down, yet again, to an issue of money or lack there-of for enforcement. :depressed:

Having said this, at the ODFW meetings down here this spring I heard one of our resident game enforcement officers repeatidly whine about having to enforce the law at the hatchery hole and what a big job has been created for him. He was also opposed to the handicapped platform that is going to be put up there because, again, it would create work for him.

I don't know, could it be it cuts into the doughnut time too much?? Why would a person go into the law enforcement business then complain about having to enforce the law? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 07-10-2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Fishing freak · 07-10-2002, 09:02 AM

Straydog,

I agree. A camera would work nicely. What irritates me is I fully intended to turn these dumb a***in but there are no law enforcement officers to be found on the upper river. I think that they have decided to bury there heads in the sand and pretend that no problem exists. It is a problem that self policing will not cure. If you go to the hatchery hole you will see 100 men/women with there brand new waders/rods who have never fished a day in their life until
someone from ODF decided to open the stretch of water right below the dam. They see Joe/Tom/Harry and whoever getting away with it and think that it is acceptable. Give me a badge and authority and I can guarantee you that I would have no problem handing out 20 fines a day, which would more than pay for a couple of law enforcement officers. Funny thing,
the state of Oregon can afford to pay wages for to officers to check the in-coming rafters at the park at Shady Cove to make sure no one is above the .08 alchohol level.

Fish-n-finn · 07-10-2002, 12:33 PM

It is not just a Rougue problem. I saw the same thing on the Salmon river on the Oregon coast a few years ago. Guys just parked on 101 walked a little ways to their favorite snaggin hole, threw out their lines and waited for a bump. There were other fisherman all around fishing with more sporting methods but nobody seemed to care about the snaggers.

Tanner · 07-10-2002, 01:32 PM

Fish-N-Fin,
In defense of the method you saw being used on the Salmon River. I believe you are talking about plunking corkies in tidewater. This can be a deadly (and quite sporting) method of LEGALLY hooking tidewater nooks. The problem is the guys who set the hook on every little bump. I have caught many fish this way (legally) in the Trask tidewater. When I fish this way I prefer to set my rod down and wait for a good bite. Normally the bite looks like a trout bite. Then I pick up the rod and set the hook.
Please don't stereotype all people that like fishing that way into the "snagger" category.
I love watching a bobber take a dive but there has been days on the Trask and Salmon tidewater's where bobber and eggs was not working so we fished corkies and schooled the die hard bobber fisherman. (all legally hooked fish)

M W Sheller · 07-10-2002, 04:29 PM

Keta, peer pressure DOES work, even with cretins. It just takes longer, and you gotta talk slower. The people that these neandertals fish with won't help. The people that work with these idiots are the ones that can really lean on them. Try it, it works :grin: :grin: :grin:

Salmon Stryker · 07-11-2002, 06:06 AM

I've got a neandrathal story I thought I would share. Last fall I was driving home from fishing the Nestucca and I stopped in at the Rose Lodge hole on the Salmon river to see if recent rains had brought the fish up that high yet. From the bridge you can see the fish laying in the water near the tailout. There was these two idiots down on the rock making casts and jerking and one idiot up on the bridge telling his two buddies where to cast.
"No a lil to the left er Cletus." "Pitch er bout 3 feet left of wer Cletus did er ol hank" "Son of a B Hank good cast okay NOW set that son er a b" "WHOOIE I'LL BE DANGED YOU GOT HIM!!!!"
They pulled in this black nasty old salmon removed the hook from his belly and said "This ol girl will smoke up right nice I reckon." "Bet she's just full of eggs too"
As if those idiots were ever going to use bait!!! I'm sure they were dissapointed though as the fish was a buck. I left word at the Rose Lodge store that there was guy's down there snagging fish and the lady in the store called the state police. I couldn't wait around as my wife was expecting me home but I hope those 3 got what was coming to them.

AngleThis · 07-11-2002, 03:39 PM

I guess you have not been up to the Cedar Creek hole on the upper Lewis. Every year, for about six weeks, snagging goes on in a big way. The limit is six fish, and for the first half of those six weeks, most of the fish are chrome bright. I have seen the gamies there who don't seem to enforce the snagging laws at that time. Some guys will pull a hundred pounds of meat out of that hole every day for a month.... without exceeding limits.

I think it is because these fish are done. They can't go much higher as there are impassible obstructions. They are almost all hatchery fish, and so what doesn't get caught ends up turning black and either washing down river to rot finds its way into a fertilizer bag. Frankly, in this case, I'm all for harvesting them by any means as opposed to waisting all that fine meat. But the Rougue?...that's a different story.

TheRogue · 07-11-2002, 05:04 PM

*********.....no, it's the same thing....the fish can't go any farther. If you use the same logic as your Lewis River example, then the same should apply for that portion of the Rogue.

Honestly?? I would love to see an anything goes fishery on these portions of the rivers. But, for all the reasons posted above, I'm realistic in knowing that this is a BAD thing, and it would just grow to other areas.

kyle