Yeesh! Frightening day!

Jennie@ifish · 06-27-2002, 03:27 PM

We have done it tons of times before! It has been MORE than safe! We have it down pat!

(Where have I heard that before? :smile: )

Actually, we are safe now, but I'll tell ya, there were plenty of scared fishermen and women out there today!

We were fishing at the steelie spot we always fish, in the channel, close to shore. I mean, WAY close to shore.

We always anchor, when a ship comes, throw anchor and take the waves. They are usually nothing special! It's just that the water gets sucked out in the shallows and we could end up on the rocks.

Yikes! Not today!

Two ships had passed, we were doing great. It was raining,... We looked downstream at the approaching ship. YEESH! It was way weighted down, and throwing off huge waves off the bow. Then we saw them crash to shore. HMMMM.... Bill? Can we like, MOVE???

"Oh no, honey, we'll be fine...."

[img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

As the ship approached my fear level did not lower. I was shaking. It looked like tidal waves coming off the bow! We threw the float, and stood ready. The boat downstream from us, took off at high speed. What the heck, Bill? He's racing the ship! Me thinks he doesn't think he can handle this wave! Bill??? I think we can't handle this wave!!!!

Relax, darling....

[img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

The jet sled that lost his nerve was racing ahead of the tanker... or whatever this huge ship was! It was strange looking!

So, as I was watching the tidal wave like water approaching shore with a huge splash, I turned to look ahead of me.

A WALL OF WATER.

[img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

BILLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!

It was at least a six foot standing wind wave, approaching fast, and more coming soon in after it! They were breaking.....

(Can I cuss on this board?)

Bill throttled up to take the wave, and thank GOD, (and I mean that most sincerely) we did not crash down on the back side. He is a pro. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

We took all the waves, and did not take on water, but some of the boats out there were not so lucky.

The river was in turmoil for at least 10 minutes past the ship. Breakers still breaking at 5 minutes!!!

I told Bill that that was enough for this girl for the day.

Heading in, we stopped to check with the other boaters. Some took on water, some were very angry.

But.... The fact of the matter is that we were in the shipping channel and that is the risk you and I take.

Was the river pilot giggling, and saying, "Watch this?" with a malicious laugh? Seemed like it. He had to have seen the damage he could have done. He had to know the wake he was throwing.

But even though we were only 5 feet from shore, boys and girls, it is legally the shipping channel!

Yikes... I think I'll go out and bank maggot a while...

Check for wakes... Bill may be used to it, and may be able to handle that, but I think I'll stay out of there. Capt J? Bill needs a Columbia fishing partner! :smile:

Even Bill mentioned that was the biggest wake he had experienced, and I even got him to admit that he had been a wee bit nervous... (That's a lot for Bill!)

I'll just be home dancing flies for cutts on the low and clear Kilchis River. I know there are no ships coming anywhere near here.

I'm alive!

Jen

[ 06-27-2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

husker · 06-27-2002, 03:41 PM

ya know that sounds pretty scary.......i never have been bothered by ships before but this 1 sounds very dangerous

GutZ · 06-27-2002, 03:44 PM

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
did I say :shocked:

Play'n Snooky · 06-27-2002, 03:56 PM

Glad to hear everyone got off the water okay! I know I have a greater appreciation of tug & ship wakes after having my boat at the time ( 15' aluminum ) scoop water and knocked out my bow light. And that was after detaching!!
Glad your safe
Play'n Snooky

P.S. How was the steelie fishing?

Jennie@ifish · 06-27-2002, 04:02 PM

I feel kind of ripped, and ticked at the river pilot...

Fishing was S L O W. I saw one fish played on the way upstream.

We fished 9 till the waves crashed at 1:00 or so.

I wish we'd have stayed, but... that's after thought. I was so stressed at the time I just wanted dry land. Call me sissy, I don't care! :smile:

Notta bite... And we usually do really well there. It's a secret spot Bill did a TV show at one time with Rick Metzger when he was with channel 6. Anyone remember that show?

How could a pilot NOT know what he was doing? He was going really fast. If he slowed down, is it like jets? Would the waves be even bigger? I don't think so, but I don't know?

Jen

GoFish · 06-27-2002, 04:02 PM

Your supposed to get the numbers off any boat throwing a damaging wake. Call the law and make them responsible for the damage they cause. I don't think there is an exclusion for larger vessels. Just because their big doesn't relieve them of their lawfull responsibility to operate in a safe manner.

Flatfish · 06-27-2002, 04:28 PM

I'm happy to hear that everyone is ok.We had the same thing happen to us last winter(only 1 ship but that was enough.10 foot breakers off the thing.As far as speed/wake limits on commercial traffic.I am 90% sure that they have to comply like all others.Get the ships #s and name and call the police.Ask Jellyhead,he may know.
Mark.

Dr Strangelove · 06-27-2002, 04:33 PM

The last time I fished out of my 14ft Livingston was in the Columbia...I got caught between two large container ships moving opposite directions. No way out. Circling on plane like a trapped rat with standing breaking waves encroaching quick and double peaking as they collided. I told my dog to lay on the floor and knew if we stayed still we would capsize for sure, even the cat hull. So I gunned it over the first wave, crest over the enclosed bow, water over the top, popping through like a surfer, and landed on the peak of the second wave, slid down the back and pearled the bow again in the third wave to the windshield and then popped up. Literally scared the **** out of the dog. Figuratively myself. Thats the day I decided to get the 19ft North River with foam flotation and a bilge pump. Don't miss the Livingston at all.

Thumper · 06-27-2002, 04:59 PM

So people, why put yourselves in those situations? I've boated the Columbia for 45 years and never been in an uncomfortable situation mainly because --- I am afraid to die! I admit it. Doc, why would you place your teensy boat between two biggies in mid-channel? Being chicken pays.

Flatfish · 06-27-2002, 05:16 PM

Thump,
I don't wanna die either.When the big one hit us we were in a 20' Alumaweld with a 7' bottom and high sides.Plenty enuff boat for the water(Mouth of Lewis R).Never before or since have we seen such a monster wake.It was the carelessness of the pilot of the ship.
Mark

Jennie@ifish · 06-27-2002, 05:19 PM

You know, I have always preached to not anchor in a shipping channel.
I honestly didn't know we were in one!-- and I've fished here before! Many times!

Today, when anchored, I said to Bill... "There is the one buoy, (sp) but where is the other one?

He pointed to land.

DOH!

BILL!?!?!?!

So, that brings up the question... Is it ever OK to anchor in a shipping channel? If not, why is it legal? The same reason why doing other stupid things are legal? Is what we did really dangerous? After so many years of fishing there, and having others fish all around us, are we all wrong?

Or-- was the ship wrong to throw such a huge wake?

Bill has fished the Columbia for probably as long as you, Thump, and he is a darn good captain. He's never had a problem either. He probably wouldn't admit that today was much of a problem either. It's just that dramatic Jen!
:smile:

Jen

Jennie@ifish · 06-27-2002, 05:43 PM

Bill is mad at me. He says, "We weren't really in a shipping channel, Jennie!"

I said, "Yes we were!"

He said, "Make sure you tell them we were in 10 feet of water 15 feet from shore".

There you go, I told you.

:smile: :smile:
Jen

Thumper · 06-27-2002, 05:53 PM

Jen:

I know that this must all be a result of female hysteria. I know that Bill, being a mature and experienced boater, would never place you in harm's way. Now have a tall cool one and be nice to Bill tonight.

Jennie@ifish · 06-27-2002, 05:59 PM

I AM!
He saved my life!
He's a HERO!

:smile: :smile: [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] :smile: :smile:

Female hysteria, and a poorly bred dog, right?

muzachmuzaphargah ad adjfk#)(*$#

I'm going to get you someday, Thump.
J

crabbait · 06-27-2002, 09:28 PM

I agree with Bill, you were out of the channel. It would not have mattered if you were anywhere on the river when he came by, you are going to get a ride. Some folks think that because they are away from a big ship that they are out of the wake zone. Wrong. Watch the river run away from its banks when a big ship is pushing a tall bow wave. That water will be back!

A displacement hull (as opposed to a planeing hull) pushes less wake at slower speed. It was his load (displacing a lot of water) and his speed that caused the huge wake.

I was sleeping aboard my 23' sled one night anchored off shore to a buoy with a bungee system when I was awakened by the feeling of motion and I don't mean gentle rocking. It felt like we had suddenly gotten underway. This was caused by the water rushing out toward the bow of a big ship going by in the channel at high speed. Snug in my bag, I could not hear the ship at all.

Suddenly, the bow of my boat pitched up at about 60 degrees and I could feel us swiftly moving backwards until the bungee came tight and pulled the bow through the wave. It broke against the shore about forty yards behind us.

I have had the same thing happen with my drift boat anchored-off when fishing from an island. When that huge wave comes through you are looking right into the bottom of your boat and thinking there it goes! Then the nose line comes tight and she rides right through.

Same thing with a boat under power. As long as it is not breaking and you keep the nose into it and add enought power to go up the wave you are going to be alright (assume enough boat).

Hope you nerves calm down Jennie. An ********* rush once in awhile lets you know you're still alive, huh. Trust Bill, he's seen it before.

[ 06-27-2002, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

AngleThis · 06-27-2002, 09:45 PM

Jen,

I assume you are talking about the Columbia...?? OK.. big wind assisted ship generated wave, perhaps two coinsiding...big wall of water, but you are close to shore. So...ask yourself; what is the worst thing that can happen?

If I read you right, the worst thing is that the wave picks up your boat, turns it sideways, and then breaks onto rocks... Your pretty head gets planted into the shore with the boat right behind you....definitely a dangerous situation.

Nowthen... what is the next worst thing that could happen? You mentioned gettin pushed up on shore with receding water leaving you high and dry. You mentioned the possibility of being launced and slamming behind the wave. Niether desirable but not particularly dangerous.

I would like to submit to you a course of action that would surely have prevented the worst thing that could happen, and any injury, for you and/or the rest of the crew, had Bill not been a competent skipper and continued to ignore your assessment. IE, the boat DOES get flipped and slammed and the shore is jagged rock.

But before I do, can you guess?

crabbait · 06-27-2002, 10:44 PM

Bail out. Swim toward the wave. Dive when it goes over. Come up on the other side and do it again until the "surf' has passed.

Yell at Bill and reboard the boat or swim ashore, wet but alive. Wearing a PFD would hinder this course of action and there is the risk that you could drown (remote if you are a decent swimmer). Body surfers do it all day long.

crabbait · 06-27-2002, 10:49 PM

Of course, the above course of action would violate the number one rule, stay with the boat. The rule is most applicable when the boat is far from shore or, at least, likely to stay in the water.

Desperate times call for desparate measures. Beats wearing a boat.

scrod · 06-27-2002, 10:58 PM

Oh well! Ships happen. :grin:

Small Fry · 06-27-2002, 10:59 PM

I have to disgree with Crabait on jumping ship without your PFD. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] I think Bills action were right on. Where on the Columbia were you fishing? I can't think of an area were that shallow of water is so close to the main channel.

crabbait · 06-27-2002, 11:29 PM

Small Fry - The question was - what to do if you feared the ultimate worst and Bill was not doing what he did.

A PFD would only keep you from being able to duck under the wave. It would be a calculated risk considering the other consequences.

In the case as described, staying with Bill and the boat was the obvious best course of action.

Jennie@ifish · 06-28-2002, 05:12 AM

Bill did absolutely the right thing.
It was scary, but geesh, he has been over 10 foot waves on the Nehalem bar. If he really would have though it dangerous, he would have followed the other sled.
I trust him with all of my life!
Still, it was scary for me, as I dislike big ocean waves immensely!
BTW, the 10 footer he went over, wasn't his choice. It was a sneaker wave that capsized the three other boats next to him, trying to cross. It was before the jetty was there.
He and his friends had a small boat with lawn chairs in it.
Have you ever seen smashed lawn chairs?
They are somewhere out there still!
He said, while going over the wave, he saw the boat next to him roll over sideways several times. What a nightmare!
Of course you wouldn't want to be close to shore. geesh!
It was scary to me, but Bill holds a 100 ton Coast Guard Masters License. He's no dummy out there.
He knows how to read water with the best of them.
Actually, Thumper is mostly right. It was a case of female hysteria! I hate to admit it, but I was really scared, but that's my own problem!
Bill would never ever put us in a situation that would harm anyone. He is like Thumper too. He doesn't want to die!
He goes out in the big blue, but only when it is nice out there. He is respectful of the water, and doesn't take chances.
Anyway, nuff said.
It was quite an experience for me, but I doubt Bill is going to call home to tell Mom about it.
:smile:
Jen

Jennie@ifish · 06-28-2002, 05:22 AM

Small Fry:
There is such a place, but I'm not about to give it up!
:smile:
Keep searching your topo maps!
Jen

Joe Schwab · 06-28-2002, 07:25 AM

Jennie, sounds like you had a great time! Yes I have been there, done that. Those ships move down in that stretch of river and they are not required to slow for small anchored boats. Practically speaking they can't. More than one patrol boat was filled with water over the years after being tied close to shore and left. The water goes out, the water comes back in and if the bottom configuration is right, big, standing waves result.
Bill is right, you were not in the shipping channel but that does not mean ships will not pass by closely.
I was anchored in 15 feet of water once during springer season when I heard the danger signal. A tug was approaching from upstream and it took awhile before I realized he had lost control of his barge. I threw the rope and float and fired up. The barge passed right over my float and fortunately didn't rip it off.
The Columbia is a BIG river! Glad you made it OK. Tell Bill I'll be his wingman anytime. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Paddlefish · 06-28-2002, 08:38 AM

I wouldn't quibble too much about whether you were legally "in the channel." The waves don't quit when they get to the edge of the channel anyway; they keep on rollin' til they reach shore -- both shores. Admittedly, they're likely steeper if you're closer to the vessel than if you're along the far bank.

That said, there is still a "resonability" requirement which applies to a ship's speed and its wake. They're definitely not going at full speed on the Columbia, but perhaps, considering their displacement, the pilot was still going at an excessive rate. And yes, they can be held legally liable for the consequences.

A contingent of Canadian naval ships, heading upriver for the 1960 (I think) Rose Festival, were proceeding so fast and creating so big a wake that they washed out dikes and did other damage downstream of Vancouver.

Somebody paid.

I don't recall where the liability falls between the ship's owners and the river pilots, but attorneys are involved for sure. And it'll likely take years. Of course, if you didn't survive, that's kind of moot anyway.

06-28-2002, 08:44 AM

Jen,
Yes that does sound very scarry. And with your way of descriptive writing you made me feel as though I was there too. Wow. I am glad everyone escaped tragedy.

ff

Jennie@ifish · 06-28-2002, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Don't wait, book now for Tillamook, Nehalem Bay Chinook.
Captain J Charters and Guide Service.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I can't wait! When???
:smile:
Jen

AngleThis · 06-28-2002, 09:06 PM

Crabbait...U nailed it...bail out and swimm toward the wave....before it breaks....except you forgot "grab the throwable PFD" just before. If the boat is still upright, go back to the boat. If it is history, your'e not far from shore. If you don't make it before the break, you get dumped on shore, but without a boat sandwiching you.

Not bad for a "fresh water woos" (I'll probably now find out you were a Navy Seal as well as a beach lifeguard, right?) :grin:

[ 06-28-2002, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: ********* ]

dogfishboy · 06-28-2002, 11:21 PM

Good job Bill. As you know, you made the right decision.

I have found myself in this situation three times in the last few years. Once at the upstream tip of Puget Island a huge wave from a passing ship came up on me fast. It was so big I couldn't see the Oregon shore. All I had time to do was run the boat up on the beach and run up the beach. The boat got swamped and things started to float out but I retrieved everything. Had to bail until my arms were about to fall off but all was good.

The second time I was just below and inside Warrior Rock when I saw a huge wave coming at me. This time I had time to run down the wave until I found a section that was not breaking. I turned into it and throttled over the swell. It was about a 60 + degree angle on the way up and on the down side it was everything I could do to stay in my seat.

The third time was this spring when I was dropping a friend off at the mouth of the Lewis. We saw a swell coming at us from a ship that we had just crossed in front of. We looked at each other with our mouths open in disbelief. I said were going to try for the mouth and if I didn't feel we would make it I would run it up on the beach at the point. We made it around the corner into the mouth. This was the biggest ship wave I have ever seen. When I got back to the beach on the other side, three of the boats on the beach were swamped and everyone was stunned. I was darn lucky we had not left a minute later.

It pays to ALWAYS keep someone on watch. I too often see folks asleep in their boat unaware of what's going on around them.

And Jen, all three times it ended my fishing for the day too.

I'll do it again. Fear is healthy, I just won't let it cripple me.

David

[ 06-29-2002, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: dogfishboy ]

DF · 06-28-2002, 11:43 PM

Back when I was a bankie I used to fish off the St. Helens public docks alot. These docks are in a no wake zone on the oregon side of sand island. You think the island would stop the ship waves..

I notice a very larg ship going by... at a high rate of speed. Next thing I notice is a HUGE swell coming towards the docks. Everyone on the docks scatterd as soon as the waves hit. Water came crashing over the side and up under the dock.. getting me wet :depressed: and then I look to my left and see a small ramp that connects one dock to the other BREAK. Lucky for us you could still step on to the other dock with no trouble. If you go down to the outside public dock in st. helens you will notice damage and holes where their used to be bolts :grin:
our city takes fooorrrreeevvveeeer to replace stuff :tongue:

hawgcatcher · 06-29-2002, 12:30 PM

Many years ago, a friend's Mom was fishing on shore at Sauvie's Island for steelhead. She was in her 70's at the time. She had her tackle box, her folding chair and pole and everything else she needed. A large ship came up river and sent a huge wave on shore. She lost her tackle and everything and almost was washed away. They found out the ship and contacted the company. She received compensation from the company to reimburse her for the loss of her equipment.

Wonder if they would do so now? With all the law suits, they probably wouldn't admit that it was there fault by settling anything.

Be careful out there.