sleeping guide

husker · 05-22-2002, 07:22 AM

ok so there was a post here yesterday about some guide sleeping while doing his job.....seems that it is not approved by the administrators....so i have been sensored.....bad service is bad service ....sleeping guides should be held accountable...what happens if i sleep on the job?....i get fired.......

Jennie@ifish · 05-22-2002, 07:40 AM

Hi there Husker...
We didn't delete it.
We moved it to the mod board for consideration.
We decided that it isn't OK to use Ifish for anonymous attacks on an unnamed guide.
Ifish isn't the voice of professional accountability. You could take it up with the Marine Board, if you need to talk with someone.
Ifish is a powerful voice, and can be very hurtful to someone's career or livelihood.
It would be awful to only hear one side of the story, and we don't know if this guide has access to ifish or not.
Jen

husker · 05-22-2002, 07:43 AM

thanks for your response jennie.....but many times good guides get lots of praise which they have earned.....we the fishing public should be allowed to voice our expiriences in good taste.....but as i said before if i sleep on the job......i would be history....

Jennie@ifish · 05-22-2002, 08:16 AM

I think that what people were complaining about is that you didn't mention a name.
I'm not encouraging you to do that, but that was the consensus of the posts posted after yours.
I will put it back up if you feel it is helpful to others.
Jen

Chris Nordling · 05-22-2002, 08:49 AM

Easy to complain about someone who is nameless :depressed: . Either spit out the name, or leave it as is.I agree with the decision to remove it, simply for the reasons stated by Jen, the most being that this person may not have the access to Ifish to defend himself.This board is HUGE, and could make or break a business.
But, we as the public have a right to know if a business is shortchanging the customers. I guess this is why the BBB exists, for the very reasons posted in the post, to inform us of bad or questionable business practices.
Unfortunatly with free enterprise, not everyone is at the same service level. This is why there are good guides and bad guides, because anyone can do it. Same as restaurants, good ones and ones that I wouldn't even send my dog to get the food . Same for any business. There will always be a top dog or two, maybe 10, as there will always be an "other" list for bottom dwellers.

Maybe it was good that you didn't name names.You probably saved a business, no matter how poor it may be. But if you were trying to "save" us from some bad dude, then no, you did us no favor what so ever.

Bottom line is there are good and bad in all businesses, not everyone can be the best, but anyone can be the worst if they're not careful. If you don't like the service you receive, you do have the right to express yourself the same as if you were thrilled with the experience. It's America, what's a fella to do ?

Chris

husker · 05-22-2002, 09:25 AM

1st....i was the 1st person to complain about a person complaining here about bad service they got and then leaving them nameless......i cannot remember who started the topic.....but i blasted them to either put up or shut up......

which brings us to this morning....when i notice the topic has been removed....or as jennie has noted moved to the moderators board for discussion.....

i have only 1 issue with this.....there is a topic on the big board right now which poeple are having an adult conversation about a guide ......the orginal post was positive but the further posts have been detracting to say the least.....

http://www.ifish.net/ubb/ultimatebb....c;f=1;t=012384

i believe sensoring in this case is wrong....just my opinion.....

i still say a sleeping guide or worker loses their job....and i wouldnt want to pay 150 to fish have 5 people in the boat guide sleeping and only 1 pole out.....that would suck....

[ 05-22-2002, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: husker ]

Wet_Willy · 05-22-2002, 09:32 AM

Didn't anybody wake him up?
Bill

Mofish · 05-22-2002, 09:34 AM

Thank you IFish for pulling that story. It sounded kind of Fishy to me.

Wet_Willy · 05-22-2002, 09:34 AM

Didn't anybody wake him up?
Bill

stlhdh2o · 05-22-2002, 09:40 AM

Moderating these forums has got to be difficult to the extreme...

I have to say though that in my opinion the fact that the poster left the guides name out of it makes the post completely benign and harmless. Where you could run into difficulties with derision is by encouraging people to name names. Most posters are anonymous and it doesn't seem fair that an anonymous poster could disparage a named guide.

That being said what then is the point of posting if you aren't going to name names? I think the board members made this point pretty clear in their responses. Better to just let these posts die a quiet death I'd say...

Chris Nordling · 05-22-2002, 09:55 AM

Sorry Husker, I thought you started the topic, my bad. I'll echo Wet Willy :

" Anybody wake him up ?"

Chris

garyk · 05-22-2002, 10:40 AM

Funny, just this weekend me and friends were discussing coastal guide who has the habit of anchoring up and then going to sleep.

I wonder if it's the same person that Husker was referring to, or if it's the start of new trend? :shocked:

Dan Christopher · 05-22-2002, 01:00 PM

i thought this site was about freinds helping freinds?????

so i can help (you) but its up to me to pay $150.00 bucks and get a bum guide and find out the hard way who it was ???((((((BULL))))))you can eather beleave husker or call him a lier...if this guy doesnt care about his cliants and will go to sleep on the job and only have one poll out, then he gets whats comeing to him,
i just lost some faith in this site for saveing a guide and hurting many fisherman and (ifisherman) at that. i better quite talking here before i get in trouble so

bring it back and post his name!!!!

[ 05-22-2002, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: MADWIZERD ]

Fish Hunter · 05-22-2002, 01:24 PM

I'LL SECOND THAT!

But wouldn't rush to judge a normally hard working guide, those guys don't exactly get sick days. But when you repeatedly hear about bad behavior I'd like to know. You would also have to consider your source.

Fish-n-finn · 05-22-2002, 01:37 PM

I have been following this thread throughout the day and I have to say I agree with Madwizerd. I fish with different guides at times and I would definately like to know who is good or bad before I shell out the money.

PS also after reading all the posts on this thread I have to ask whats up with the brown nosing going on by Mofish and stlhdh2o. Are they bucking for a moderater position

Biteme · 05-22-2002, 02:19 PM

As far as one pole goes, assuming you were oversized sturgeon fishing, there are times when fishing for oversized sturgeon that the bite is so good and the current so strong that by the time you get 2 or three poles out you already have a oversized on and you just wind up trying to crank in some very heavy leads and big baits in a hurry. Also in certain locations with swirling currents using whole shad and more than a couple of poles is not feasable. When the oversized bite is red hot and that is what the clients want to fish for usually it only takes a mater of minutes to have one on and in these situations what I do is have the clients decide who is next to fight a big one and usually try to run at least two poles for oversized and the rest for keepers, but there are times that the swirling currents wont allow you to fish many poles. If the bite isnt good I move to water where we can put out all of the poles and keep everyone busy. When we are targeting oversized and are into them good I try to get everyone involved in the fun. we pick two people to hook the next fish, pick someone to run the video or camera, pick someone to help with the anchor release and boat handling and so on. this way everyone is involved in the exitement of the moment. Another thing to consider is that when you are in a red hot oversized sturgeon bite what would you do if you had four or five of them on at the same time? This is possible though unlikely 4 or 5 but 2 or 3 at the same time is very likely and could quickly turn into a mess and possibly a dangerous situation. I guess that if your guide had time to sleep you werent into one of these red hot bites and possibly that was the plan all along. As far as the sleeping goes, if we are talking about just dozing off for a moment during a lull in the action I would say that long hours, lots of driving, and a little sun and wave action can lull anyone to sleep. Now if we are talking feet kicked up head back and snoring There is no excuse for this --- Express your concerns to the guide and ask for your money back if he or she disagrees turn them into the marine board and the Coast Guard. When I am with clients I am usually to busy catching or trying to catch fish to sleep

nwfish.com
always awake on the job

stlhdh2o · 05-22-2002, 02:20 PM

Not brown nosing...expressing my opinion. If it happens to be similar to that of a moderator so be it.

I raised a couple of important questions in my post that no one has touched. I don't see anyone arguing a counter position, so, unless you want to address something specific that I said I suggest you keep the name calling and such to yourself. Sound like something a moderator would ask? No? Good...

Fish-n-finn · 05-22-2002, 03:10 PM

h2o

Sorry if I upset you, I should have put one of those smiley faces on my post. I was just poking fun not calling names. You did make some valid points it is a tough call to make. Everyone would like to know who the good and bad guides are but is the best way to do it by slamming them on ifish or any board? I do not know.

Jennie@ifish · 05-22-2002, 03:11 PM

Geesh! You guys, MELLOW OUT!
No one seems to want to name names, so this whole thing is pointless!
Don't you get that?
It seems fairly clear to me!

The message I am getting is this:
Don't fish with guides cuz there is one that sleeps???
Duh!
Jen

husker · 05-22-2002, 03:33 PM

jennie maybe u could tell us all who started the "rumor" about the sleeping guide...since all i started to say in the beginning was name the loser......but somehow that thread got moved, deleted lost, or something....which started all of the hub bub......why not remove the other thread stated above also? it trashes a particular guide for being a jerk.......if i knew who started the thread i would email him personally.......my tizzy fit is about being sensored for asking a honest question.....put the thread back up on the board and let the readers decide for themselves......i have been emailed 4 times today with poeple asking me who it was.....so poeple really want to know who is good and who is bad......if the guide service provides a quality service his clients will state that i am sure.....

05-22-2002, 04:17 PM

Dennis, you are right on the money, as if you needed me to tell you that.

Dan Christopher · 05-22-2002, 04:28 PM

(bite me)

if i remember corectly the fist thead stated it was supposed to be a keeper trip and they fished hole shad all day and got 3 oversize for the day no keepers.so it seems to me the weren't even fishing for the planed size fish and with 3 hooked it doent look like a hot day. so no need for 1 rod.and "going up front to sleep"i think is how it was posted..but i dont know if the guide was one here on this site or why the mods think the guide in question is better then us so...i wish i could remember who the original poster was i would ask them.but if they read this (e mail me the name and have trust i will not relese it with out your consent)if anything i am always good for my word.i just dont want to get burnt.

Jennie@ifish · 05-22-2002, 05:31 PM

I don't, for the life of me know why it matters so much, or what the fuss is about, but I moved it back here to the board.
I forget the name of it, but it should be down the list a bit.
Jen

Dan Christopher · 05-22-2002, 08:31 PM

"jennie"
thanks for bringing it out of the closet.you restored my faith that this is still a great site.

i am sorry if i upset you about this.i just hate seeing good info being sensored.i dont think guides suck, i think they "most"rock.i just dont want to spend my money or see my friends and family spend money on a guide like this.if i heard it was dave johnson, bite me or some others i know good things about (ifish guides) or not i would post"that they must have got them on a bad day and that i never or rarely see or here bad things about them.but if i get to many bad reports about a guide there out of my book and i wont recommend them to others.you can just never know anything bad about a guide enless you fish with them or someone tells you about them.when people are not aloud to tell you it makes it real hard..i hope you under stand where i am coming from on this.
thanks....dan

[ 05-22-2002, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: MADWIZERD ]

MasterCaster · 05-22-2002, 11:00 PM

Well If you ask me ANY guide that goes to sleep in his boat while he has clients with him isnt just rude but it doesnt seem to be safe.

If the clients arent river wise they wont be watching for the log comming at the bow of the boat or the barge comming up/down the river.

Besides that just putting out one rod for 5 people is just crasy! I would have thrown a fit! If im going to pay the money for a guided trip I am going to have my own rod in the water! Why would I pay $150 to go out on the river and watch one rod with 5 other people?

I would also like to hear the guides side of the story just so they have a chance to defend themselfs.

I think this is more of a safety issue more than anything.

My .02 take it for what its worth.

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

M W Sheller · 05-23-2002, 04:50 PM

Money, for me, is hard to come by. The more I make, the more hands are thrust forward, palm up, in my direction,(I.R.S. is the biggest problem for me), but I digress. I've only fished with two guides, both of them worked their butts off to make it a good day. I felt my hard erned money was well spent.
So, to get to the point, we, as perspective clients, need to know names. I, speaking for my self, and likely lots of other folks, can't afford to toss away big bucks to find out which guides are the "keepers", and which ones are the " sleepers".
The first guide I fished with, was on the Klamath, for "half pounders". He earned his money, and then some. That was in '76, and I can't recall his name. The second one was Brad Vanderzanden. He also went beond what was expected. He earns every dollar!!
So, we need to know who will earn their bucks, and who will take us for a "boat ride". [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

stlhdh2o · 05-23-2002, 05:20 PM

I love a good ethical dilemma...

Seems to me like it would only be fair to name the offender if you named yourself in the same post.

How about a guide review section of the website Jennie? Where people could post their guide trip experiences both positive and negative as long as they were willing to post their real name (or confirm their identities somehow)?

Great post M W -

The other side of that coin is that, as you have experienced there are guides out there that work their butts off. What's stopping any yahoo with a computer and a grudge from rubbing stinky dead sand shrimp oil all over his name by spreading false rumors on the internet? I am in no way suggesting that that was the intent of the original post, just trying to show the other side of the argument.

[ 05-23-2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: stlhdh2o ]

Dan Christopher · 05-23-2002, 05:35 PM

you can only post good guide reports bad ones are not talerated?????? :whazzup:

Pete · 05-23-2002, 06:11 PM

Oh come, now! General accusations about guides where you aren't willing to back up your accusations with a name are the problem. What's so difficult about that? If you don't name the person, you're just blowing smoke. If you can't back up your accusation with some evidence, you're just slandering someone. If you have something to say, say it, but come out from behind your moniker so the guide you accuse can defend himself!

bigwiz · 05-23-2002, 06:45 PM

who needs a guide any how? [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

Dan Christopher · 05-23-2002, 09:13 PM

"pete"
i agree with you but when we cant read all the posts because they get deleted how do we know anything,thats my problem.not weather i believe it or not.if you post your story,back it up,i am sure there will be 100 people to say they fished with that guide and it was great .so you can blow that one off.but if you get many that say "i thought that just happened to me"maybe it is a habit of the guide and we should stay away.i just think we should be totally open here good and bad and you can look at someone's back posts to see if you believe them.if i ever have a bad guide i would like to say so if you don't want to believe me that's up to you.i just dont think this site is big enough to bankrupt any "big" guide.but maybe i am wrong and this is not my site,i do love this site i would just like to see it more open on every avenue just way to much tight lipping going on these days.who knows i just wanted you to see where i was coming from.ok i am done with this "i think"

poshie · 05-23-2002, 10:33 PM

The original post was not done by the person who had the experience with the sleeping guide. He said the information came from a couple of guys at work. He said/she said/ information can be very detrimental and I don't know the poster anyway so why would I take the poster's advice.
I also
noticed that the poster has 2 little permanent messages about two other businesses he won't patronize.
If I need a good guide I would possibly come on here and ask for one.
For Jenny to set up a page so that one can bash and bang is quite a responsibility for her to take on and might possibly have some legal ramifications for which she would be held responsible.
There have been such threads on this board and sometimes they go on much longer than needed.
There was an incident on the news today about
some specific educational staff members being targeted on a web page. The ISP was asked to remove it and they did.

crabbait · 05-23-2002, 10:50 PM

Good eye, PoshII. That was exactly the problem that I had with the post: second hand information. The person who originated the thread was not in the boat.

I believe his intentions were good and that he was trying to alert us to a possibly less than professional guide. I think he was correct in not naming the guide since the guide may have had a very different story to tell and it is, after all, his livelyhood.

Enough of this. Let's get back to fishing.