Netters warned to allow observers

[Chris Sessions]

How can these guys get away with this!
Mike Kelly just sent me this:
http://www.columbian.com/03112004/sports/125293.html

[Tilla]

So why isn't that equated to refusing a breathalizer test?

[Pete]

The observer requirement could use some strengthing. I've asked to be an observer for 2 years. I've talked with Cindy LeFleur and Bill Tweit in Washington about it. I've talked to Steve King (now retired) and Pat Frazier in Oregon about being included in the certification training and placed on the list. I've even asked Jim Wells, president of the gillnetters, about spending a day on a net boat. It still hasn't happened. If things don't change quickly, I'll campaign for a stronger requirement in next year's authorization. It is not acceptable for this damaging fishery to go unobserved.

[crabbait]

I absolutely agree with you, Pete. Thanks again for taking the lead in this.

I think a commercial fisherman who refuses to have an observer aboard should surrender his license on the spot. I think the law should deal with them the same way that any fisherman would be dealt with if they refused to have their catch inspected or have their boat boarded. Bu-bye.

[nofishon2day]

Pete,
Right on! Please take the lead.

[luguando]

Go for it Pete! I happened to meet a gill netter a couple of days ago. We were waiting for our car to get out of the shop and started talking. He was a real nice guy but one thing he said struck me. He said when you are a commercial fisherman there's no such thing as tomorrow. Even if that is a somewhat commonly used phrase it scares me to think that that kind of mentality may be common throughout the fleet. I really have a hard time trusting those guys in the first place. Then you read about their arrogant defiance of the regulators. Why do you let them get away with that nonsense? Why does thier scheduled fishing times always run overnight? Talk about letting the fox in the hen house!

[Rip'N'Lips]

This is such crap... could you imagine refusing to show your tag to the gamies? I think it should be mandatory to have an observer with you at all times. I think a floatilla is in order to follow them, tape their techniques and make commercials to get on the ballot to ban netting in the next election...

Rip'N'Lips

[Fishfaced]

ahhh no mr. obsever sir...ahh we haven't caught a thing.

Oh ok! well we will be on our way and leave you guys to your work. Have a nice day!

What a joke!

Just try that one on Mr. FW next time he ask.

[OregonSportsman]

Yeah thats a bunch of bull. These guys aren't even making a living from this anymore, its just a side thing. And none of the fish they catch ever shows up in any Safeway or Albertsons around here, its all shipped back east. As far as I'm concerned they can have all the fall fish they want, but they need to be shut down in the spring.

[skybuster]

I saw that too and it got me boiling.

I guarantee that the first sporty that refused to let his catch be inspected by biologist would get a visit from a trooper. Why can't they end the season for any boat that refuses an observer?

[Ray S.]

I make my living driving a freezer/longline boat on the Bering Sea. NMFS requires that we have an approved observer on board at all times when fishing. Refusal to comply with the program would result in immediate loss of fishing rights. Sounds like a pretty toothless program when these guys get to make the call if they'll participate and when??
These things don't work unless they are mandatory and totally random. Just my 2 cents
Ray

[Natester]

This is so wrong!

How Much time would they spend reviving a native or steelhead without someone watching? With out using their revival boxes what would their true mortality rates be. This how their impact should be measured if they refuse an observer.
Or how many fish could be sold unreported (Salmon & Sturgeon) with out an observer. Where might they go fish with no one watching (River mouths /closed areas)

Thank you Allen Thomas and the Columbain for reporting this information. This needs to be brought up at the Columbia River Compact meeting and we should be calling officials from our States and demanding action!

Hardly surprising given what Bob Toman observed two years ago.
What are these guys hiding? [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]
Go get 'em Pete [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[eyeFISH]

If you sit down and really think about it, the whole thing is very hypocritical. Why even waste taxpayer dollars on observers!? What are they gonna do, just watch the fish die? The fish will do that whether or not the observer is on board, whether or not the "revival tank" is used. It will continue to happen as long as there are nets in the river!!!

When that wild springer or steelhead gets dragged aboard, he has lost a good amount of slime and scales. Even if he is "alive and well" upon release, he will likely end up in another net just a few miles upriver. How many times do you think he'll be netted over the next couple of months? Each time having the de-sliming/de-scaling repeated over and again. It would be nice for WDFW and/or ODFW to radio tag a bunch of wild springers to see just how well they fare running the gauntlet of nets. That would sure give everyone a much more realistic picture of the mortality impact these nets are having on wild springers.

That would be a much wiser investment of taxpayer dollars than a bunch of observers that the netters won't even allow aboard.

[ 03-11-2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: eyeFISH ]

[monoman]

Fine print time:

Les Clark, of NW Gillnetters said, "predation of spring Chinock in the nets by seals and sea lions has been very high!"

Are these in the count anywhere?

The other term that comes up is "Drop outs" These are fish that were in the net but did not make it to the boat.

Are these in the count anywhere?

[Fishing Maniac]

Stew,

What did Bob Toman observe two years ago. I did not hear anything about it. Just curious.

[dampainter]

Oh no they were warned, so what! sniff, sniff...smells just like politics to me.

[ 03-12-2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: dampainter ]

[deep set]

I was about to rip Nate <apart> until I realized what he was doing!

This is <completely bogus>. Nate makes some good points about people attending the meetings and making sure our voices are heard.

Pete, let us know what we can do to assist!

[ 03-12-2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: skein ]

[Laserman]

Catch and eat

If what you say is true and ishow you realy feel, than your children will have to pay the price some day for your abuce to the enviroment. I realize that by me making such a statement it lowers me ALMOST to your level of intelligence. I hope I get a chance some day to see you and others with your mentality go down.By the way, I attend many of the compact meetings, I am sure we will see one another some time.

[Miss B Haven]

Hey Bernie- I think you got their attention. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] :whazzup: [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[CATCH AND EAT]

He he he.... :grin: There ain't no flys on me.

[ 03-12-2004, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

[Gr8waves]

Hey Laserman - C&E (Bernie) was comically pointing out the gillnetters have things their way due to SPORTFISHER APATHY! When decisions are made it is the commercial fishing community that shows up in force to support their side of things. What do sportfisherman, myself included, do about it? Whine, complain and say how unfair things are. We as a group are our own worst enemy.

[ 03-12-2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Gr8waves ]

[STGRule]

eyeFISH: The observers are volunteers from the department. It isn't costing you anything more than it already does. They would still be paid if they are observing or doing their regular job. The problem is finding staff that has the time to do this instead of their regular jobs.

[Kevin Newell]

For what this is worth:

I called the Clackamas office. I learned a few things.

- Observers are all volunteer. 16 observers total. I stated that every boat should have an observer and I was told that they have a heck of time just getting 16. I said that I would volunteer and asked to be put on the list. They said there is no list and kinda acted like I wouldn't be an impartial observer.

- They said that the observers that are being turned away are still able to get on other boats and that they are still observing enough drifts to get accurate data.

- They also said that if this continues and if it eventually leads to inacuratte data, that then they would have to shut down the commercial season in order to allow other data to be collected.

- Observers on board isn't the law and the commercials aren't breaking any laws by not letting them onboard.

- If it was the law ODFW stated that they did not have the ability to enforce it.

Folks we need to get together and get some lobbyists (oh how I hate that term) and fight fire with fire. PM me if you need my help.

By the way the folks at the Clackamas office were pretty nice, and I appreciate their help.

[img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[h20dog]

Goodness gracious C&E when I first read that I thought you had gone over to the dark side, :shocked: but I have read enough of your stuff to understand where you were going with it. You made some excellent points Pete, I'm not much on politics and have never gone to one of these meetings only because I don't have the depth of knowledge needed to speak at one of these functions, [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] but if a warm body in show of support for the sport fishers is needed then i am a player. :grin:
Oh yeah...by the way Bernie thanks alot, i cant get that stupid song outta my head now

[Pete]

Cooter, thanks for your post. It's helpful to make a call and get some facts. I can see room for improvement in the observer program, but I'm sure there's a balance between cost and value that might make it a challenge to get right.

[Jennie@ifish]

I was called to go 2 years ago, and then they called to cancel.
They never called back. It was weird.

Jen

[Killertraylor]

I'd like to observe your job for a day, Jennie [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

Come to think of it, we all could use an observer at work!

When I think about it that way, I don't blame the gillnetters who said "no".

[DanS]

KT,

Lawyers who break the rules get disbarred, yes? So you have "observers" watching your work, no?

[Snakebite]

The law was just changed to allow an Oregon or federal observer on a commercial fishing vessel landing any food fish in an Oregon port when requested. I know 'cause I spent the last nine months making it happen! This was intended for vessels fishing in marine waters so I don't know how it applies to lower Columbia gillnetters, however, I don't think a gillnet boat license is any different that any other commercial fishing vessel. Refusal to comply can result in revocation of the vessel license. This rule may just be too new for many folks to know this. Catch and Eat, I think you just shot yourself in the foot!

[ 03-12-2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Snakebite ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Darn SS. My footy hurts.

Do you folks actually read the entire posts any more? Sheeeeeezzzzzzz!!!!!!

[BUGLEMAN]

C&E, I award you a gold star for that Gillnetter post. Good material.

[Snakebite]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Darn SS. My footy hurts.

Do you folks actually read the entire posts any more? Sheeeeeezzzzzzz!!!!!!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, that first sentence in you disclaimer was so confusing that I went momentarily brain dead, and failed to comprehend the gist of it. Sorry. At least your foot isn't stuck in your mouth like mine all of a sudden.

Hey, I'll get a copy of the new rule and post it here. I'm also going to look into if gillnet boats actually do need to comply when requested...everybody in the ocean does.

[Full Freezer]

So how much is a commercial license anyway?? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

If I bought one, I could boat nates, I could tell the fish police to bug off, I could fish at night, no limits, and then sell the fish to you sporties who got skunked that day! [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

And according to another post, I could blast away with impunity at those darn pinipeds! :shocked:

Sounds like one heck of a deal to me. Where do I sign up??? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[OregonSportsman]

GEEEEEEEEEEZZZ, I was gettting really mad there until I figured out what was going on.

That sure is a good way to get people fired up though....

[ 03-12-2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: OregonSportsman ]

[FishinMission]

Geez...What's the big deal?..You refuse an observer...you lose your gillnet license! Duh!

Mark

[dampainter]

:blush: :grin:

[ 03-12-2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: dampainter ]

[DanS]

It was SARCASM , folks!

C&E.....I think that one sailed right over a few people.

[Miss B Haven]

Originally posted by dampainter:

after reading your post all I can say is who let someone like you on ifish?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hey Bernie- looks like you got another Nate in the net! Bonk him quick!

[dampainter]

yep ya got me, ha ha. ya got me fuming so much I missed your disclaimer... good one. :blush: :blush: ....big time :grin:

[ 03-12-2004, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: dampainter ]

[txaggie]

got em' hook, line and... oh, nevermind...

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[crittergitter]

Hey Catch thanks for the wake up! You had me going for a minute there.
Hey Pete, how about if we presented a list of voluteers and a schedule to the wdfw and odfw? I would be more than happy to help out when I can get around my work schedule. I'll be willing to bet I'm not the only one who would be willing to observe and report.
I think if they refuse the observer, their permit should at least be revolked for the year. I know what can happen if I refuse to show my catch to the biologists why should the netters be any different. I would think the game depts. would welocme additional help and getting actual numbers instead of guessing from some formula.

[Conspiracy Theory]

C&E,
That post was great. Since I don't personally know you and only know what I've read here on ifish I couldn't believe you were a gill netter. I was so p----- off at you and your arrogance. As I was reading it I kept saying to my self - please don't let this be true. :shocked: :whazzup: Then I read the last line. I was so relieved. Great job. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

That post is great at getting the point across.

[h20dog]

Unbelievable. To me refusing to allow an observer on board is just an admission that these boats have no intention of playing by the rules. I am appalled!

[CATCH AND EAT]

What's all the fuss about? I'm a gill netter and I deserve to make a living just like the rest of you. These fish belong to everyone not just the sport angler or environmentalist extremists. I pay for my license to operate in the waters of the big C and I pay my taxes just like the rest of you.

So a fish or two dies while we handle them, big deal! You sport anglers kill your fair share too. And don't say it ain't so because it ain't. Maybe you are the ones that should have an observer on board. Heck I bet some of you even stuff a native or two under the floor boards at times right? Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

I have a right to my privacy folks. The boat is mine and you can't board it unless I say so. I say no, you don't go. If you insist, then you better have a warrant or something like that. This stuff of big brother always watching gets old after while. It's an invasion I tell ya of the no good regulators trying to get into my back pocket.

Heck, if if were'nt for guys like me you would'nt have hatcheries and the tribes would be the only ones fishing for these oily delights. You'd be fishing for trout instead. Either that or sittin at home watching the final 64 or something. We are good for the river because we make sure the sealion get all nice an juicy fat from our feeding nets. Sure is a lot of fun to throw those native steelhead that you all love so much out to ol' Hershal swiming next to the boat. He just comes back for more and it is so cute when he barks at us.

Well, this observer on every boat thing you all are talking about. Never happen unt unhhhh... Our lobby is strong enough to defeat that kind of thing. WE show up at ALL the meetings hosted by ODFW and WDFW unlike you stupid sport fisherman. Makes me laugh everytime I go to one of those things and see the power we have in our numbers compared to a sport fisher representation. That's why we always get our way and we get OUR FISH. Keep up the good work on that end folks. he he he he........

I just love gill nett'n those salmon and stealhead. Gives me a warm fuzzy just think'n about it. So we get a little negative press in a po-dunk paper like the Columbian. Big deal! The Oregonian won't even touch it right now. Too concerned with the equal opportunity marriage gig or something dumb like that. sniker sniker he he...

Makes me want to sing:

To the tune of Gillagins Island:

Here I go drifting to and fro,
no observer in sight for me.
I drag my nets as I wish,
In search of a fish-y.

A native here a native there,
makes no difference to me.
I toss those fish in the air,
and watch them go splash-y.

And watch them go splash-y.


Wow I love that song. That's my theme song when I'm netting all those fish and ticking of the sport fishers. What a week bunch :tongue: . Oh well, hi HOOOOOOOOOOOO! Off to **** and pillage the river my friends. Sure hope I beat up that quota like I did last year. Whooooooo that was great! And then they shut down the sport angler harvest I laughed my socks off.

Well, gotta go folks. Keep your hooks sharp and your minds dull. I've gotta ship this last batch to New York City! By NOW! :grin:


Disclaimer: Kinda makes ya mad when ya read something like this does'nt it? Well it should.
Pete, I hope you have a lot of influence over something like this cause it deserves our attention and the attention of the public. Good for you!

BTW I am not a gill netter. :shocked:

[ 03-12-2004, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

[Abalone]

Perhaps we should ALL go out there to observe. Of course we would all have to use our own boats
because there wouldn't be nuff room on board for all of us. But then if we are out there anyhow we may as well fish.

Well that wouldn't work either because there would be enough room for the Gillnetters to fish.



Just a thought.

[Snakebite]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Darn SS. My footy hurts.

Do you folks actually read the entire posts any more? Sheeeeeezzzzzzz!!!!!!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, that first sentence in you disclaimer was so confusing that I went momentarily brain dead, and failed to comprehend the gist of it. Sorry. At least your foot isn't stuck in your mouth like mine all of a sudden.

Hey, I'll get a copy of the new rule and post it here. I'm also going to look into if gillnet boats actually do need to comply when requested...everybody in the ocean does.

[Full Freezer]

What are the rules for engagement concerning "on the water" protests against gillnetting?

When PETA has a group in front of a store that sells fur to try & convince the patrons to re-think their purchase, they are allowed to pretty much harrass these people & block entrances etc.

Are their laws that prohibit on the water demonstrations while gillkillers are actively engaged in their destructive activity?? Could we possibly make it so difficult that they would give up cause it's such a hassle?

Disclaimer- I'm not advocating destruction of property or endangering the safety of anyone. Just pondering any possibilities of "active persuasion(sp)" to make it difficult for them to continue & encourage them to hang it up.

Pete?

[fishhard]

Snakebite,
I think the commercial fleet turned the Columbia River from Longview bridge downstream in 1973. I come to this conclusion after talking to WDFW agents about CG Licensed Guides not being able to fish below the "Bridge" without a saltwater charter license.

[Cowlitz Kidd]

See how they are know respect for fish get them off the river.If it was me or you and a observer wanted to come on are boat and we said no we go to jail and lose all are fishing tackle and are boat.

[bait-n-wait]

I do not think that having an observer is out of line. I used to drive truck and alot of times there was some one standing there watching load or unload. making sure i didn't load more than I was supposed to or load the wrong thing.. sounds alot like gill netting.. I think it should be law and enforce it by doing daily licencing for their "seasons" dilivered by at the observer.

[timinthegorge]

Thanks for posting that Salmon Shark! Another loop-hole in the law big enough to drive a truck through it! That fries my bacon! As said above, no observer, no license, period. It ain't brain surgery!! Grrrr....

And C&E.... YOU DA' BOMB!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[CATCH AND EAT]

To all of you that actually thought that I was a gill netter here on i-fish I guess you should have noted just how long I have actually been here. Nearly 5000 posts a person would think that most of ya know me by now but I guess that was a wrong assumption.

The post was intended to make you mad and think about the postion of the gill netter. Now I don't want to stereo type all gill netters in that light because I am sure there are a few of them out there that are fine people, just stuck in a part time occupation that we do not approve of here on i-fish.

Just trying to point out there is an aweful lot of sniveling and not much action from you folks on this position that you are taking. And yes, I would go to meetings too but I own a small business and I am the only office person there. If I'm not there I don't get any business. There's my excuse. I write letters when asked to our representitives, fish and wildlife and so on. But, that does not excuse those of you that actually have time to go and put in your 2 pennies at these meetings and stand up for sport fishermans concerns. You can bet that when I get office help I will be there too. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

To those of you that are already involved and pitching a tent at these meetings THANK YOU! Pete a special thanks for your involvement on all issues that the sportsman face throughout oregon and washington. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

So what are ya gonna do now folks???????????

[luguando]

Any news on the success of the observers going on the gill net boats? I hope we don't let this issue fade because this may be our strongest leverage in keeping the gillnetters honest on their practices and record keeping!