yeilding to commercial nets

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 02:38 PM

i just got off the phone with the ODFW, and they told me that i MUST yeild to commercial boats with their nets out or if they intended to fish my slot. they said i had to pull my anchor if they (the commercial guys) wanted to fish my area, no ifs, ands, or buts. i didn't know that. i figured if you were there first, it was yours. not so.

just kinda makes you feel like we are second when it comes to what the state has in store for us.

just wanted to let anyone out there know if you didn't know already. take care and tight lines. BTS

Riverkeeper · 03-10-2004, 02:42 PM

Didn't someone (Freespool?) just post that he looked into this with the coast guard and got the opposite answer?

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 02:46 PM

don't know... didn't see his... just got off the phone with them and i'm still sick to my stomach.

Kevin Newell · 03-10-2004, 02:46 PM

Call ODFW and ask them to document this in writing. I would be very surprised if they could do so.

Sky-Guy · 03-10-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

just kinda makes you feel like we are second when it comes to what the state has in store for us.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">That's been Both WA and OR modus operandi for years!

Laserman · 03-10-2004, 02:55 PM

Blue Tip spinner

If you call WDFW you will get the same answer you received from ODFW. It is a fact that the commercial gill-netter has the right to chase you out of the area you are fishing. The sad thing about this is when I asked TAC members(3 years ago.)how far I must remain from their fishing netts, their answer was " As far as the netter wants". I would like to find some where in the regs a clarification on what is the exact protocal in regards to this issue.

Gun Rod Bow · 03-10-2004, 02:57 PM

I just took my boaters test

Oregon boating law

"Boat traffic lanes. (ORS 830.345)

Anchored position must not obstruct the passage of other boats."

Commercial traffic generally has right of way. Netters are commercial.

You cannot anchor where it will obstruct passage (like to see them try to enforce this in OC in April

)

Learn to use your little motor. Like it or not, it's the law.

The time for this fight is not after the commercial seasons are set.

[ 03-10-2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 02:59 PM

still sick to my stomach... forget it... i'm gonna give up fishin and take up golf, that is until the commercial golf ballers come in and tell me i can't golf the hole they are in because the state says so...

El-Kabong · 03-10-2004, 02:59 PM

or the time to accidentally drop bales of hay overboard.

just kidding

EK

Riverkeeper · 03-10-2004, 03:04 PM

Here's the other thread on this topic

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 03:16 PM

GRB- how successful have we (the sportfishers) ever been in getting what we want when it comes to commercial vs. sportfishers? if you check, i'm fairly new to the board (been here for less than a year) and i really can't say that i have seen them yeild to us in any way. they raised our fees to do what we love, they gave the commercial guys the time they wanted, they increased their fishing times from 16 to 24 hours without letting us know, they didn't include a buffer between the 60-40 split that some ifishers had hoped, and who knows if they will honor the 60-40 split this year (they sure didn't last year). what do we have to do to get heard? writing letters doesn't seem to help and complaining to each other isn't getting us anywhere. what are we supposed to do? the only thing i can think of is hurt them where it counts, the pocketbook. then i have to give up something that i love with my whole heart. it just kills me to think that this has and will continue. i can understand the commercial side, they need to feed their families like i do, but there has to be a happy medium. if this year turns out like last year (with the netters going over their allowance of fish) what can we do??? nothing. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (had to let that out)

(maybe i'm being too dramatic about this, but i sure wish i was fishing right now instead of complaining from an office in SE portland.

)

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 03:18 PM

RK- i hope that is true, but i'm not going to bank on it.

Gun Rod Bow · 03-10-2004, 03:31 PM

Writing letters attending forums, making public statements, presuring officials.

That is how representative republics work.

That is what we can do.

Laserman · 03-10-2004, 03:35 PM

blue tip spinner

Come to a compact meeting this fall.( compact sets alications for sport/commercial and quota guide lines) There is usually only a couple sport fisherman and a whole lot of commercial fisherman. You would be surprised on how orderly these meetings are. You can get a chance to give your point of view. If we could get at least as many sport fisherman in these meetings as commercial fisherman, changes can be made. Alot of the public must speak out in order to make this change, and keep speaking out. You can find out about these meetings by looking under compact at the WDFW site.

freespool · 03-10-2004, 03:38 PM

I'll take the word of the United States Coast Guard over any game commision ya hoos any day. Remember folks the prime mover here is anchored out of the channel.

salmon hugger

[ 03-10-2004, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: freespool ]

Pete · 03-10-2004, 03:42 PM

Or come to the Jantzen Beach Double Tree on Tuesday at 9 AM for the kick off of the "North of Falcon" hearing process which allocates the sport, commercial and tribal catch for the coming year.

North Of Falcon Hearings

[ 03-10-2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Pete ]

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-10-2004, 03:45 PM

pete- do you mean the 16th of march, the same day that it opens on the upper river???????

ctflyfish · 03-10-2004, 04:04 PM

This appears to be a direct conflict with the US Federal Navigation Rules, specifically Rule 18 (c). I would like ODF&W to provide a specific statute because their advice is in direct conflict with federal law, in my opinion. Federal law applies in navigatable waters of the United States.

Gr8waves · 03-11-2004, 07:54 AM

Here is a link to Rule 18 - http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule18.htm

freespool · 03-11-2004, 08:20 AM

Thanks for the link Gr8waves,that should remove all doudt as to who has to give way to whom. Looks like Blue Tip won't have to take up golf after all.

salmon hugger

seeker · 03-11-2004, 08:36 AM

Hi all,

i am new to posting on the board, but have been reading all of the info on ifish for a while now and this is no doubt the best forum for fisherpeople in the nw that i have found.

It seems like the federal law indicates yeilding to a vessel engeged in fishing. Since both the commercial folks as well as sport people are fishing I dont think that this would be a valid argument to protect us. I am pretty sure we would be subject to state law.

Chrome Bumper · 03-11-2004, 09:30 AM

Looks like the first one in the water gets the hole. ODFW

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

Fish Slapper · 03-11-2004, 09:39 AM

I have e-mailed WDFW, Washington state boating administrator and the Coast Guard 13th district. I have recieved a reply from the Coast Guard citing the navagation rules but I did not get a clear answer. I have replied to the Coast Guard again and I will post here as soon as I get a clearly defined answer. From what I can see at this point is that we have to move and leave them to their fishing.

nofishon2day · 03-11-2004, 09:57 AM

I checked with the Coast Guard last year and was assured that gillnet boats did not fall under their classification of commercial boats having the right-of-way in navigatable waters.

I understand WDFW had given out some wrong information earlier this year. You might call them again. The USCG regulation is the governing rule.

freespool · 03-11-2004, 10:00 AM

Just got off the phone with the Coast Guard,same answer. If your in a legal anchoring area ie. out of the channel,YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MOVE. USCG 503-240-9365 ps gamies have no jurisdiction over river right of way.

salmon hugger

Scruffy Bearded Varmint · 03-11-2004, 10:28 AM

I understand it the Oregon State Legislature cannot grant to one person an exclusive right to fish. This was determined by the Oregon State Supreme Court in the case of Monroe v. Withycomb, 84 Or. 328, 165 P 227 (1917)

The plaintiff was a gillnetter that claimed his lisense from the State Fish and Game Baord gave him exclusive fishing rights. The court said that the right of fishing belonged to everyone but that the state had the authority to regualte and/or prohibit the catching of fish.

In an earlier case, the court said that neither party could have exclusive right to fish where a palintiff had a lease of specific sites from the Secretary of War and the defendat had a license from the State of Oregon to operate nets and seines.

Since these case are old, the legislature may have changed the laws. The cases surrounding these issues can be found, but you will have to do some digging to be sure.

Please do not challenge a fishing vessel with nets out by not moving your boat. I think your pleasure boat would loose against a steel hulled commercial fishing boat. When you see them coming the smart thing to do would be to get out of the way, I suspect. I don't do boats very well so that is just a guess on my part.

Blue Tip Spinner · 03-11-2004, 02:06 PM

looks like i don't have to take up golf after all!!!

thanks for all your input and the info, it makes me feel better knowing. it makes me feel better to know that i don't have to move when i'm already in my spot.

Fish Slapper · 03-11-2004, 02:09 PM

This is the reply I just got for the same USCG guy that I posted earlier:

(USCG reply)
This is the reply I received from Washington State Fish and Game. Oregon law should be pretty much the same. As I suspected there's a state statute that covers your situation. Again you are fully within your rights to fish and they have no authority or priority over you as a sport fisherman to make you move.

(WDFW reply)

"no, he does not have to move. In fact, if the person takes some overt action that interferes with his activity, that is a violation; i.e. gill netter deploys gear and forces the sport guy to move or risk a collision. A more black and white scenario would be an effort by one person to cut another persons fishing line, or running over a net intentionally. Hope that helps

Freakwater · 03-11-2004, 02:31 PM

Great post! Thanks to those who took the time to hammer this one out.

Freak

Fish Slapper · 03-11-2004, 11:14 PM

This is the reply I recieved from the USCG boating saftey division in Seattle. I explained to him that I was anchored out of the marked cahnnel on the Columbia, fishing. This is his reply:

In the situation you are referring to the Commercial Fisherman has no right under the law or by his commercial status to force you to move. If this situation continues to take place please contact the County Sheriff department for that local area.

txaggie · 03-12-2004, 06:47 PM

While searching for something else earlier I came across this in a FAQ on the OSMB site:

"If I'm at anchor fishing and a gillnet (commercial fishing) boat is coming toward me, who has right-of-way? Do I have to move? "

Answer was:

If you are anchored in narrow channels, shipping lanes or areas normally used by other boats, you must make way for other boats coming through to avoid impeding traffic. Other than that, the commercial fishing boat doesn't have an inherant right-of-way over you.

Predator Dawg · 03-12-2004, 07:27 PM

Even if ODFW wants to try and say the Gillnetter has the right to bump you off your anchor, you can take it out of their control and put it into the hands of the C.G. by simply reeling up when approached by a commercial. ODFW has absolutely no say over a pleasure craft that is simply anchored out of the channel and not currently fishing. Once the commercial moves on, let em back out. Only the CG can tell you you have to move at that point.

Hog One · 03-12-2004, 07:40 PM

We were fishing below Presscot Beach 3-21-03.The comerrcial netters were fishing that morning.There was one comerrcial boat trying to clear the whole Oregon side of the river [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] .WE told him we were anchored up first and he would have to fish around us.He said he was calling the Sherif,We said go ahead.The Sherif did come and told us as long as we were anchored up BEFORE the netters start there drift we have the right of way [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

.Hog One

Riverliver · 03-12-2004, 08:45 PM

Look it's easy: Just tell them to grab another card and GO FISH..

Killertraylor · 03-12-2004, 09:17 PM

Blue tip - if all the information you get about gillnetters comes from this board, I can see why you feel the way you do. I've anchored around them several times and I've never had to move, although I did lose a few quickfish to a rather unpleasant gillnetter last year who decided to lay out 20 feet behind my boat. Most of them aren't like that though and I doubt you'll have any problems with them while on the river. A few more days and they'll be done. Keep your head up! Those fish know how to swim around that net! Just watch them reel it up - you'll rarely see them catch one during the day time.

Abalone · 03-13-2004, 03:22 AM

I say !

Why not let them fish and get it over with ?
No sense creating anymosity is there ?

I wouldn't want to risk the trouble tangleling up with those guys.

The few that I have met out there have been very friendly. Some have even told me
where the fish hold up. Made suggestions for where to fish after the Netting is done.

If we start interferring with their fishing things could get ugly for unsuspecting fisherman.

Just my .05 cents worth.

Fight em in the courts and at the meetings and keep it off the streets.

boater · 03-13-2004, 09:39 AM

RCW 77.15.180
Unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear -- Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear in the second degree if the person:

(a) Takes or releases a wild animal from another person's trap without permission;

(b) Springs, pulls up, damages, possesses, or destroys another person's trap without the owner's permission; or

(c) Interferes with recreational gear used to take fish or shellfish.

(2) Unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear in the second degree is a misdemeanor.

(3) A person is guilty of unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear in the first degree if the person:

(a) Takes or releases fish or shellfish from commercial fishing gear without the owner's permission; or

(b) Intentionally destroys or interferes with commercial fishing gear.

(4) Unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear in the first degree is a gross misdemeanor.

(5) A person is not in violation of unlawful interference with fishing or hunting gear if the person removes a trap placed on property owned, leased, or rented by the person.

[2001 c 253 � 29; 1998 c 190 � 22.]