Brown Rubberlegs Question

[Travman]

So, a few years ago I took a fly tying class at Idaho State University taught by a guy who guided for what I understand to be the premier lodge on the south fork of the snake river (lodge at palisades creek). He also tied some amazing bugs. He swore up and down that if you knot the legs on your rubberleg stonefly nymphs to make them appear jointed your catch rates would double, claimed he and another guide had run experiments on this and both had drawn the same conclusion. Anyone have an opinion on this?

[native steelie]

i kinda figured the point to tying some flies was to make them look as realistic as possible. couldn't hurt, right?

[D3smartie]

I'd be suprised if it did in fact double and it would be tough to find a big enough sample size to get scientific data... BUT if you are more confident with the knotted legs, thats what you should fish IMO. trout grab all sorts of stuff floating down stream. It doesnt have to look like much for a fish to grab it for the 1/2 second it takes to get them hooked. I'm a fan of flies that are buggy as opposed to being exact replicas..

[NCL]

I have always thought it was more the movement of the legs that cause the strike than the actual appearance. I would very much agree that confidence in the fly is also a factor which will effect how you fish the fly and probably more impotant how long you fish the fly.

[Travman]

Originally Posted by D3smartie

I'd be suprised if it did in fact double and it would be tough to find a big enough sample size to get scientific data...

I find it hard to believe too, but I'm far from a flyfishing genius and thought maybe this was just something that all good flyfishers did that I was unaware of. At any rate, he convinced me and I now knot all rubber legs and fish them and, consequently, catch more fish on them and prove your point perfectly! I think this might be about as scientific as most trout bums get!

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Travman

I think this might be about as scientific as most trout bums get!

Trout probably don’t have the mental capabilities to recognize a jointed leg from a straight leg; but they definitely don’t have the visual acuity to distinguish a knotted leg.

Trout have the ability to see colors like a human, but they have poor visual acuity. Visual acuity is often measured in terms of minimum resolvable angle (MRA), that angle formed between the eye and two distant points barely distinguishable as separate. An average human can see an MRA of 1.0 arc degree minute. A trout has an MRA of over 13. “With their comparatively fuzzy vision, most fish would be incapable of seeing fine details.”

This information is from an article by Dr. Keith Jones, director of research at the Berkley Fish Research Center and published by the IGFA in 2006.

Trout probably use color, size and movement to decide what is food. You might as well tie fuzzy flies because that is what they see anyway.

There’s your scientific answer…

[Travman]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Trout probably don’t have the mental capabilities to recognize a jointed leg from a straight leg; but they definitely don’t have the visual acuity to distinguish a knotted leg.

Trout have the ability to see colors like a human, but they have poor visual acuity. Visual acuity is often measured in terms of minimum resolvable angle (MRA), that angle formed between the eye and two distant points barely distinguishable as separate. An average human can see an MRA of 1.0 arc degree minute. A trout has an MRA of over 13. “With their comparatively fuzzy vision, most fish would be incapable of seeing fine details.”

This information is from an article by Dr. Keith Jones, director of research at the Berkley Fish Research Center and published by the IGFA in 2006.


Trout probably use color, size and movement to decide what is food. You might as well tie fuzzy flies because that is what they see anyway.

There’s your scientific answer…

Wow, that's interesting. Thanks for sharing. I always thought it to be some kind of a miracle when a trout ate a fly I tied myself but I guess it's just that they can't see very well!

[mkwerx]

if trout have such bad vision... how can they see and tell the difference between a size 22 and size 18 midge? Sometimes they just will not touch the larger fly.

[fishcentral]

educated trout !!!

ive fished alot of spring creeks around the states , and my best mayfly is the parks - wilson ! this fly is a no hackle fly , in parrachute or no wing nymph !

instead of hackle its tied with small tippet material with knots in the tippet to look like joints !!! also you tie it in a basic tan color and take majic markers to color the fly to match the hatch color . this fly tricks big smart fish ! which in the yellowstone and surrounding areas they have alot of smart fish . freestone rivers that we have in our area are fairly easy to fish and dont take much of the extreme fly tying techniques ! and i like the eye of the trout post , not triing to say you are wrong , but tying outside the box catches me more fish then alot of other fisherman ! which could just be my ego talking ! but with the materials we have today for tying , its amazing what we can invent on our own !

i tyed flys in the 70s n 80s - and just started tying again and wish i had more money to buy all the advanced materials that are on the market today ! heck my salmon flies look like they could bite you ! im now tying flies for crane prairie trophy trout ! in clear water ! thanks for the post because i forgot to knot my damsel fly legs hehehe !!!!!!

[C-lice]

Originally Posted by Travman

So, a few years ago I took a fly tying class at Idaho State University taught by a guy who guided for what I understand to be the premier lodge on the south fork of the snake river (lodge at palisades creek). He also tied some amazing bugs. He swore up and down that if you knot the legs on your rubberleg stonefly nymphs to make them appear jointed your catch rates would double, claimed he and another guide had run experiments on this and both had drawn the same conclusion. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Maybe not entirely on point, but I have never been able to get the legs to go in what I thought was the correct direction(s) when I knot the legs. One would go up, the other one left, the other one right, the other one left, the other one left, and the other one straight back.

It would probably not have made much difference in the fly's effectiveness, but it was more frustrarion than I wanted to endure.

Not to rain on your parade, but did the guide sell flies? Did he or the other guide have sponsors? Have you ever mentioned his (or the other guide's name) to friends? I'm wondering if the knotted legs was his 'hook'.

[kigercreek]

Originally Posted by AndyK

You might as well tie fuzzy flies because that is what they see anyway.

Maybe Polly Rosborough was onto something...

[travislara]

HAHAHA I was gonna use that name on Ifish!!! Anyways, I have seen that fish will hit anything on the top water, even the cottonwood puffs! Thought about rigging one up once. I believe to try what you see working around you!!! I'm not afraid to get a closer look at what ones using. Most of the time they will tell exactly what they are called. My !

[NCL]

Originally Posted by C-lice

Maybe not entirely on point, but I have never been able to get the legs to go in what I thought was the correct direction(s) when I knot the legs. One would go up, the other one left, the other one right, the other one left, the other one left, and the other one straight back.

It would probably not have made much difference in the fly's effectiveness, but it was more frustrarion than I wanted to endure.

Not to rain on your parade, but did the guide sell flies? Did he or the other guide have sponsors? Have you ever mentioned his (or the other guide's name) to friends? I'm wondering if the knotted legs was his 'hook'.

This response will not answer your question on how to tie the knot on the legs but is another technique. A few years ago at the ISE Show I was watching Roy Powell tie and he said he had accidently discovered if you put super glue on the opposite side of where you want the leg to bend you will get a perfect bend. I watched him do this several times and it did work. He said to use very little amounts of super glue.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by fishcentral

...ive fished alot of spring creeks around the states , and my best mayfly is the parks - wilson ! this fly is a no hackle fly , in parrachute or no wing nymph !

What's the name of it? I can't find anything like the above name?

[i8abug]

I did it with a hopper in Montana once. Made the difference between catching fish and not catching fish that day.

[fishcentral]

Originally Posted by garyk

What's the name of it? I can't find anything like the above name?

i found this fly in an old fly book from the 70s i had , its by a guy named parks and he said the parks - wilson he had in the book was wilsons fly and he had passed away - thats why he called it the parks - wilson , sorry i couldnt give more info but that book i no longer have it and it could have been wrote in the 60s ! i did find some to buy in an old shop at a mall in la grande ! the post about polly - she was a fly tyier from baker city back in the day ! id been in her shop in the 70s ! maybe seaching her tying might help - like the post said maybe she was up to something !!!!

[fishcentral]

Originally Posted by kigercreek

Maybe Polly Rosborough was onto something...

i remember being in her shop in the 70s ! i was shocked how over dressed her flies were and asked why ? she told me you can always take material off the fly on the water but you cant put it on !!! still shocked me how almost all the fies were over dressed at least to me it looked that way , but they worked !!! and i have clippers !

[Zugbug66]

Polly was a dude.

[C-lice]

Originally Posted by NCL

This response will not answer your question on how to tie the knot on the legs but is another technique. A few years ago at the ISE Show I was watching Roy Powell tie and he said he had accidently discovered if you put super glue on the opposite side of where you want the leg to bend you will get a perfect bend. I watched him do this several times and it did work. He said to use very little amounts of super glue.

So the 'glue side' contracts a little bit? That sounds like something worth trying. Thanks!

Off to the vise to tinker...

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Zugbug66

Polly was a dude.

That's E. H. "Polly" Rosborough

http://www.flytyinggroup.org/Buszeks...Rosborough.htm

[garyk]

Originally Posted by AndyK

That's E. H. "Polly" Rosborough

The "late" Polly Rosborough of Chiloquin, Ore.

[fishcentral]

so maybe someone could help with the shop out of eastern oregon - baker city - way back in the day ? and i always thought their were two tiers with very close names ! is it rosenbaum ? the shop was in her house !!!

[NCL]

Originally Posted by C-lice

So the 'glue side' contracts a little bit? That sounds like something worth trying. Thanks!

Off to the vise to tinker...

Good luck with the technique. Roy said he had accidently toucheds the rubber leg and it bent, he then started doing it on prpose and got perfect bends everytime. As I said, I watched him tie on the legs of a stone fly then touch in the places he wanted a bend and bam had the bend. It took him seconds to put the bends on all the legs he had tied on the stone fly and it looked very realistic.