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Chromer
Member # 752
posted 03-20-2002 12:32 PM
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Antartica, has for years, been of great concern to many modern world scientists. Much of the continent is a large ice shelf floating on top of sea water. Because of global warming, the depth of this ice has been decreasing rapidly. Scientist belive this shelf will eventually colapse as a result and break off into the ocean. Volume displacement calulations indicate that sea levels world wide would likely increase 12-25 feet, rather abruptly, I should think.
Yesterday, aided by satelite photos, scientists announced an alarming accelleration to this process.
Copied from AOL news:
Progression of the collapse of Larsen B from 1995 to the present, is shown using a satellite image. An Antarctic ice shelf the size of a small country has disintegrated under the impact of global warming, scientists said March 19, 2002. Although scientists at the British Antarctic Survey predicted four years ago the eventual disintegration of the giant Larsen B ice shelf -- 3,250 square kilometres (1,255 sq. miles) and 200 metres (655 feet) deep -- they were astounded by the speed of the break up. The Antarctic Peninsular has warmed by 2.5 degrees Centigrade over the past half century, far faster than elsewhere on the ice-bound continent or the rest of the world
The Larsen B ice shelf, a large floating ice mass on the eastern side of the Antarctic Peninsula, has shattered and separated from the continent In this fourth of four images of the breakup taken March 5, 2002 by NASA's Terra satellite. The ice shelf has existed since the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago collapsed this month with staggering speed during one of the warmest summers on record there, scientists say. The collapsed area was designated Larsen B, and was 650 feet thick and with a surface area of 1,250 square miles,
or about the size of Rhode Island.(AP Photo/NASA
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I fish; therefore I am. I catch fish, therefore I eat.
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Posts: 216 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
luguando
Chromer
Member # 2112
posted 03-20-2002 01:23 PM
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I read about this today on the net. Isn't amazing that our government continues to dismiss the idea that global warming is actually occurring and insist that more study is needed. At the same time, our leaders continue to push their energy policy that is totally based on increased consumption of fossil fuels which are blamed as the #1 culprit of this gloabl change. I guess drilling in the artic wildlife reserve is their act of defiance.
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Posts: 18 | From: Longview, WA | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
CATCH AND EAT
Chromer
Member # 967
posted 03-20-2002 02:35 PM
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Cannot share your opinions on this issue. Our climate has been constantly changing since the ice age. The natural changes are a cycle of nature. Global warming is a natural progression just as global cooling was for the ice age.
Ice is a very brittle form. Currents, tides, heat and cold expand and contract these formations. Yes, even if they are 10,000 years old. We experienced global cooling for a year and a half after Mount Pinatubo blew. That really messed up the weather. Point is, there are many other natural causes that affect our atmosphere besides our fossil fuels argument.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of this ice shelf in the next year or so. Will it become a floating hazzard to shipping lanes or simply reform itself to the continent. Ever hear of Plate Techtonics? This is ice techtonics.
Dino, If you have beach house I'll bid $1,000 cash.
[ 03-20-2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]
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BBQ'ed, Baked, Smoked, or Fried fish is goooooooood eats!!!!!!!
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Posts: 568 | From: portland | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged
Lives_to_fish
Chromer
Member # 776
posted 03-20-2002 03:28 PM
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I just did some rough calculation and something doesn’t compute.
If you use the numbers shown above, 1250 sq Mi. x 650 feet thick and spread it out evenly over 2/3 (2/3 covered by water) of the earth surface, it only equals out to about .07” thick. That’s just over 1/16”.
I used very rough numbers, but I’m not building an ark anytime soon.
Also, how much of the ice is already under water? If you take ice that is already under water and melt it, you don't raise the leval of the water.
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Posts: 78 | From: Banks | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged
PeterMac
Chromer
Member # 80
posted 03-20-2002 03:37 PM
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Well put catch and eat. Way too much over-simplification of these complex issues.
PeterMac
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Posts: 193 | From: Beaverton, OR, USA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged
ET
Fry
Member # 2130
posted 03-20-2002 03:41 PM
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Let's not all panic just yet. Something doesn't compute here. If the ice mass is already floating..... exactly how is it going to cause the sea level to rise?
Just to review a little science....when floating ice melts, no volume is added.
The entire floating ice mass in the Antartic can melt and the sea level will remain unchanged.
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ET
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Posts: 5 | From: Tacoma | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
Bait O' Eggs
Chromer
Member # 31
posted 03-20-2002 03:50 PM
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about 11% of an ice mass will be above the water line.
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Team SMS
Dont forget to come to the Jetty fishing event on March 23rd, at Barview
Be at "The Really Big One" on April 13th or put a cork in it.
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Posts: 1605 | From: Milwaukie | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged
ET
Fry
Member # 2130
posted 03-20-2002 04:05 PM
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Yes 11% above the water line... that's called floating. The reason ice floats is that it is less dense than water. As the ice melts, its volume decreases so the 11% above the water line is exactly the amount needed to fill that volume. Neat how ice works isn't it?
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ET
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Posts: 5 | From: Tacoma | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged
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Chromer
Member # 752
posted 03-20-2002 04:14 PM
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Well guys, I agre that the planet has been going through a heating/cooling cylce for a very long time. However, I thin it is indisputable that human intervention, primarily due to CO2 and other fossil fuel related polutants, and the loss of the ozone layer, is changing the pace of this cycle. It is simply not natural to have vast quantities of these compounds in the troposphere, and so the earth is reacting and moving toward a cooling phase much more rapidly than would otherwise have been the case.
As for the volume calculations, I was refering to the break off of the entire peninusla, not the little part of it that crumbled just recently...that was negligible...but the entire antartic peninsula, with eons of snowfall built up well above sea level, that's a potentially planet changing volume, espeicially if it all goes at once. If you look at the sat photos, you'll see that the 'ice bridge' that supports the entire frozen antartic peninsula, is about 25% narrower today than it was a month ago.
If this rapid a deterioration progresses, we very well may see a week of unprecidented permanet coastal flooding, perhaps with psunamis, in our lifetimes, and a whole lot of outdated charts, maps and globes. I've been tracking this for years, and the rate of shallowing of this ice brige is very rapid and accelerating geometrically. The government doesnt say much about it for the same reason they don't tell us much else potentially catastrophic. Something to think about.
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I fish; therefore I am. I catch fish, therefore I eat.
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Posts: 216 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
fishonksm
Fry
Member # 2016
posted 03-20-2002 04:33 PM
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I want to look at this in an optimistic way. How much of the things trapped in the ice could be food for little fish. Little fish grow to be food for big fish. Big fish grow to be food for even bigger fish.
With all those bigger fish swimming around I would be spending too much time trying to catch them all, I wouldn’t have the time to worry about what might happen when all that ice does melt. Just my opinion.
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Posts: 7 | From: hillsboro, OR. | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged
husker
Chromer
Member # 2010
posted 03-20-2002 04:41 PM
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ill bid $1001....i agree the ice melting isnt good......but what can i do to stop the technology driven juggernaut of the goverments.....
how many people are willing to give up there car?....i cant tow my boat with a horse?...my motor doesnt run without gas.....
i am all for saving the environment.....but this is a monumental issue.....it will take lots of governments making laws restricting the use of coal and natural gas to change many of the effects of living with a high standard of living.....of course moving to afganistan is always a possiblity....where horse and bugy are required
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Posts: 93 | From: hillsboro | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged
Keta
Chromer
Member # 2027
posted 03-20-2002 04:55 PM
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The volcano in the Philippines put out more greenhouse gases than man has since the beginning of the industrial age!
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Posts: 94 | From: Klamath Falls, OR | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged
garyk
Chromer
Member # 234
posted 03-20-2002 05:18 PM
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husker,
Looking at US history, the most effective changes will be brought about not through restrictive laws but through a rational decision on where to invest our public capital. Examples, rural electrification, the highway system, space program. Tremendous public investitures and subsidies made these huge projects and their attendant benefits possible.
At some point we'll decide to move subsidies away from fossil fuels and instead invest in and subsidize the production of cleaner, sustainable energy sources. There's really no other choice. It will happen sooner or later.
Just in case it's later, I might be interested in trading my Columbia River property for a place to live up around the future Hillsboro Bay.
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Posts: 345 | From: Columbia Co., Ore., USA | Registered: Jul 2000 | IP: Logged
Phish_on
Chromer
Member # 345
posted 03-20-2002 05:24 PM
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Maybe I won't have to drive as far to the boat ramp
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Posts: 831 | From: Willamette | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged
CATCH AND EAT
Chromer
Member # 967
posted 03-20-2002 05:46 PM
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$1002!!! Ha ha Husker.
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BBQ'ed, Baked, Smoked, or Fried fish is goooooooood eats!!!!!!!
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Posts: 568 | From: portland | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged
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Chromer
Member # 752
posted 03-20-2002 07:40 PM
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Less water, more water, there will still be fish. And imagine all the new estuaries that would be formed....half of LA would be a coolwater manmade equivalent to the Great Barier Reef. All indications are that this will occur long before mankind could reverse anything...it took the better part of a century to bring on the problem, and even total changes would take decades to show the slightest result. I just wouldn't want to own a lot of low lying property, that's all.
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I fish; therefore I am. I catch fish, therefore I eat.
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Posts: 216 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
craigc
Chromer
Member # 1587
posted 03-20-2002 07:42 PM
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I agree the issue of global warming is a complex issue 'cause you have technical issues of nature's variablity in weather mixed with the socio/economic impact of more than 6 billion people on the earth[ and everyone wants to be fed and live in a comfortable lifestyle]...
so until we, the people, decide that saving our enviroment is more important than our personal comfort[ and try to work within our environment, instead of changing it], or we have less people to feed/entertain, or we can definitively show the impact of human activity on the weather vs. the technical impact of outside factors.... I would speculate, based on observation, that most people will continue their consuming lifestyles until something castastrophic effects them personally...
for those that do not feel they can make a difference, I disagree.. 'cause the aggregate effects of we, the people, will make a difference... in my humble opinion....
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Craig C
winemakerca@aol.com
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Posts: 31 | From: Milwaukie Oregon | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged
*********
Chromer
Member # 752
posted 03-20-2002 11:21 PM
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Craig, you are right, individuals can make a difference, but not immediately. Even if the USA found a way to stop polluting tomorrow, there are about a hundred developing nations out there that will level the rain forest that oxygenate our atmosphere, because they have to; they are poor. Only on an earth where poverty, disease, and war do not exist, will any one man or even nations' efforts really make a difference to the planet. Last time I checked, we were a ways from that. Better keep watching Star Trek and funding super colliders.
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I fish; therefore I am. I catch fish, therefore I eat.
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Posts: 216 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
Gregor
Chromer
Member # 1575
posted 03-21-2002 03:08 AM
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CO² Plays Havoc On Planet!
Major Global Changes In Store!
"Analysis of the data also
indicates that gas exchange
between the atmosphere and the
frozen ices at the poles could
have significant effects on the
planet's long-term climatic
stability. "
[ 03-21-2002, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: Gregor ]
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Posts: 21 | From: America | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged
CATCH AND EAT
Chromer
Member # 967
posted 03-21-2002 08:11 AM
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The sky is falling. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!! Better start corking all volcanos, put methane bags on cattle and horses and find a way for us to breath without producing CO2.
Do any of you even realize that we now have more trees producing O2 now than ever before just in the United States? It is a fact. Other countries are practicing this same effort of planting more trees. Don't get me wrong, I am not a clear cut advocate. Selective logging at best.
This earth is tough. It is going to be here a long time. Man may distroy himself before anything else even begins to happen.
As for the Utopian thoughts of less people, be realistic. We already could feed all the people of the earth. Unfortunatly, we are pigs of the economy. Money talks and people die. Pretty sad when you see wheat spoil, burning of crops, or farmer paid not to grow crops when these food items could be sent to the third world. Make our problems seem tiny in comparison.
Our world is continuing to improve the quality of it's manufacturing and resource gathering. Sad but true, the third world is way behind and without help from industrial nations they will be the continuing culprits of the industrial age just as we were in the 18th, 19th centuries.
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BBQ'ed, Baked, Smoked, or Fried fish is goooooooood eats!!!!!!!
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Posts: 568 | From: portland | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged
Pilar
Ifish Forum Guide
Member # 270
posted 03-21-2002 08:25 AM
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Consider this. Science is improving our ability to detect even the slightest temperature or climactic change. Much of the newfound concern about global climate change is based on small, previously undetectable changes over a very short time.
Start thinking in terms of the geologic time scale. The rocks, oceans and mountains experience time in units of 1000 years. We humans experience it in minutes, seconds, days. The weather and global conditions have been changing for many years. They will continue to do so.
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The bend is your friend!
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Posts: 1619 | From: Portland, Or., U.S.A | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged
Sell the beach house?
Linear Mode
