Help with cut-plug herring

[Blue Water 23]

I have fished cut-plug herring a few times and have caught fish on them but I wanted to hear some other's opinions;

What does the "perfect roll" look like?

When a springer is just knawing on your herring what do you do?

If you get a good strike and then nothing what do you do?

Up to what depth do you bounce bottom? How often do you want it to hit bottom when trolling?

I was fishing yesterday in the MC. I was trolling a place that was between 18 and 25 ft. deep most of the time, but I also went through some deeper water. I had one rod at 17 poles that was bouncing the bottom. I had another at 14 that wasn't hitting the bottom. Even when it got deeper I left them at that depth. 5 minutes into it I had a fish knawing on my herring. Then it quit. I picked up the rod, stripped line, and then it came back and freight trained my herring and that was it. I had another strike about two hours later that didn't stick after one hard and fast take-down.

I have had lots of success on anchor, but I want to get better with trolling in the rivers. Can someone please critic me or give me suggestions.

[Pirate]

I wouldn't give you any advise, it seems like you are doing it 100% right. Just a bit of bad luck. As Dave Johnson says "Wait....wait....wait......"

[Sturgeon 42]

I think the perfect roll is a propeller roll between 15-20ft. keep drag semi tight and let them pull down while you are still trolling, as I have picked up pole and cut the engine just to have them come off.... :grin: :grin: :grin:

[Lured In]

BW23...I agree it sounds like you are doing it right.

As far as the perfect roll goes, there are several different opinions. The key is to tune your herring for the current and boat speed you are running at. The perfect roll won't be perfect if you are trolling too fast or into the current for how your herring is set up. That said, I know folks that like a fast roll and others who perfer a slow roll.

As far as the fish 'munching' your herring, sharp hooks an making sure your trailing hook is far enough back can help.

You have had more action that most of us so far.

****** has no opinion. This was just a link to one illustrated example.

[Blue Water 23]

My roll is pretty tight. Maybe 2 or 3 rolls per second.

How do I slow it down. I have my trailer hook going through the short side and then hooked down about an inch form the tail. I have the lead hook Just about the lateral line. How would I slow it down more? Or does that mean I am trolling too fast?

If you are trying to be on the bottom how often do you want it to bounce bottom? I was bouncing every couple seconds.

[bait boy]

I was show the Fishin mission 14 pulls with 4 ounces and havn'y strayed too far from that... ye might change the angle of yer cut?

[Blue Water 23]

Would less angle on the cut equal less spins per second?

Don't you guys bounce bottom when trolling at sellwood, or around frenchman's bar? Or do you just go out a certain number of pulls?

Is it bad to drag your weight on the bottom? (Besides having th chance to get hung up)

[Steelie Steve]

Originally posted by ******:
****** has no opinion.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hmmm.... :shocked: :grin: :grin:

[Pete]

I like a spin, rather than a roll, with the herring turning around an axis that goes through the center of the bait. I like it pretty slow - maybe 1 to 2 spins per second. I also think it helps if the bait doesn't look like it's healthy. I like to zig-zag my boat which changes the speed of the bait and on the zag lets it drop slowly towards the bottom. You can accomplish the same by bouncing your rod slowly. The angle of the cut helps, but the placement of the hook has as much to do with they type and speed of action you get. Experiment! Yeah, that's hard when you have "the fever", but you'll find something you feel confident in and as well known people will tell you, confidence is key! :grin:

Looking wounded, in their face and in the kill zone is more important than anything. I've seen some cut plugs pulled at "warp speed" rather than a slow troll be the "trigger" sometimes as well.

Based on dead fish, not an opinion. :smile:

[ 03-08-2004, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: ****** ]

[B-run]

Weird how the "old timers"( my pa and uncle) say that the "big loopy roll" is the way to go, but the past few years, a tighter roll, Coho style, has been producing?
If it looks crippled, flashy and smells yummy in their face, they'll honk.
When she chews on it, let it go, and go and go, then lift.
If it quits, give it a minute, lift and drop to find bottom, if nothing happens, check your bait, it's probly gone.
15-18 feet deep. :smile:

[Beefcake]

If you aren't already doing this, you can slow the roll by cutting a slit from the anal vent to the little fins on the underside of the belly. I have heard that putting the lead hook on the "short side" of the fish will give a larger, slower roll, but haven't tried it. You could also add a trolling plate to your motor to slow your speed, or you could try a "Rotary Salmon Killer" which seems to give a pretty good roll at a higher speed.

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

B-Run has the right idea I wait untill they lay the rod out and line is peeling.

I have tried to lift the rod before and only had them drop the bait. they tend to do the same thing with anvhovies on a spinner bait.

I have also had them come forward on the take and swim with it in their mouth letting you think they cleaned yer bait off.

A buddy of mine and I were fishing last fall and had a problem with them taking our bait and slack lining us he dropped it in nuetral as soon as the fish took the bait letting it sink back towards the fish and then poped it in gear and guned it instant hook up. he experimented and found a way around it I have to say it worked great we went home with a box full of chromers.

you have to learn to improvise if your having a hook up problem. having nerves of steel and not grabbing the rod to quick is the first thing you need to master.

if you have sharp hooks and a fish burys your rod its going to get hooked the longer you let it chew on the bait the better off you are in my opinion.


Quasi

.

[blacktail519]

I tell ya what!! If you want the perfect roll for springers in the channell, PM Talons. His noame is Joe, from fishhawk adventures gurde service. He sells a cut plug jig that a buddy of his designed, that is by far the best jig ever for the springer bait roll. Try one, you'll be impressed.

Herring Roll

:smile:

[bait boy]

Just as with all things everyone has an opinion if we didnt we'd all be using the same gear.... ****** has mrore experience in this arena , but mine would be spinning like the trout one but only for Chinook. For silvers I like a nice tight fast roll. I use the thump rule when watching my rod in the water one thump every 2 seconds and a half or so. this year and the last few I have been using a herring 101 rig with the chartreuse spinner blade above. so yer rod tip looks like tap,tap,tap,thump,tap,tap,tap,thump.

I lost my only fish this year due to a mainline break on friday. :-(

[5 Salt]

For a more N'west opinion check out:
http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_htrh_pc1_index.html

There is a video link at the bottom of the tutorial that shows the spin you are looking for.

Good Fishing

[ 03-10-2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: charmon ]

[boater]

i just cut the head off, clean the guts out and hook it on, if it looks like it`s working the way i want it to i`l fish with it, if not, i`l either move the hooks or throw it away and cut another one until i get it the way i like it

[Riverliver]

I like to see my cut plug spin like a drill.. Might not work for everyone but it works for me on the boneless browns.

[Salmon Stryker]

BW23- You mentioned that you are putting your trail hook into the herring as far back as possible. You might try threading the trail hook through the bait a little farther up towards the head (about halfway I guess)and then let the trail hook dangle free about an inch or an inch and a half behind the bait. Most of the time I've found that when the salmon come to hit your bait the trail hook gets um fairy deep in the mouth.

[Salmon Stryker]

I like to bounce the bottom a couple times after first letting out line and then reel up about two feet to keep out of snags. Then watch your depth finder and adjust accordingly to the changes in depth. You can always drop some more line to check if you are still near the bottom or turn a sharp corner and your inside rod should bounce. I like to keep my bait about 3-4 feet off the bottom in most water. I'm not an expert though. :grin:

[SalmonSeason]

Just Run It!! It ain't that hard
can't catch 'em if you're not trollin 'em
Get out there, be safe and
catch them clipped springers

But the channel does not have any fish so go fish in Portland

[SalmonSeason]

Blacktail519 and I fish the channel and if you
have not purchased the channel pass you can't fish down here

right Blacktail