Do you need expensive rods?

Amerman · 02-07-2002, 04:07 PM

After reading Dave Johnson's post on feeling the bite. I have to wonder is it just me or do we really need rods that cost $300 dollars. I have fished Loomis, Lamiglas, Browning, Eagle claw, and a varity of custom rods. It's my opinion that there are lots of great rods out there that are cheap and fish great. I have spent all winter steelhead fishing with rods and reels that I have bought on sale mostly at Bimart when they have sales. I don't think I have a rod and reel combo in my boat at any time that has cost me more than $100 total. I have Loomis and Lamiglas that I leave at home most of the time because they don't fish any better or worse. Just before Christmas Bimart had a sale on their Eagle claw IM6 rods for $21.99 Their light steelhead rods seem to fish great to me and have good feel and are light weight. Last year Bimart had Quantum Irons and Quantum Ex501c reels on sale for $29.99. So for $52 I have an IM6 rod and a great steelhead reel that fishes as well as any I have fished. We have hooked and landed hundreds of steelhead this winter cast and drifting with these cheap rods.

I fished these IM6 Eagle Claws in their heavy duty line for salmon last fall with Quantum Iron reels the same $52 total cost. Last fall we landed around 240 fall chinooks in 40 days of small Oregon coast stream fishing and had two rods break for the year: one was an Eagle Claw (on a snag) and one was a lamiglas (on a fish). I fished the Eagle Claws about 90% of the time and Lamiglas and Loomis's about 10% of the time.

I'm not saying these rods are as great as a Loomis or Lamiglas, but I can by ten for the cost of one, and if one breaks, I just toss it and don't feel bad. I am saying though that I think they fish just as well and people don't need to spend $300 plus dollars just to catch a fish.

I am looking forward to trying Alstar rods and TH custom rods as other cheaper alternatives.

What do you think is a high priced rod and reel really that important?

Salmonator · 02-07-2002, 04:10 PM

I'm glad my wife doesn't post here, i'd be dead meat!

rockfish · 02-07-2002, 04:21 PM

shakepeare intrepids around 40-50$ are just as good as loomis I personally think

WheresMyBobber · 02-07-2002, 04:22 PM

Amen brother. Although I do insist on high quality reels (shimano, ambassadeur, Penn), I'm not nearly as concerned about the rods. In my opinion it has much more to do with the user than the rod itself. Kind of like golf clubs - there are a lot of guys that spend a TON of money on expensive golf clubs, but they're still $hitty golfers! Get a rod that feels right to you, learn the nuances of that rod, and you'll be into fish.

Just my 2 cents for the day. [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

SlabQuest · 02-07-2002, 04:59 PM

It is the poor craftsman that blames his tools [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

BuKuBass · 02-07-2002, 05:15 PM

No more than you "need" a Mercedes rather than a Civic.

Doc Spratley · 02-07-2002, 05:38 PM

Amen, Salmonator. :grin: In all seriousness, I used to think that, until I started using my GL3 drift rod. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I have never had better "feel" with the river bottom than I have with this rod. My confidence level increases with that rod in my hand.

Shifting gears, I do a lot of fly fishing for both trout and steelhead. There is nothing worse for a fly fisherman, especially a beginner, than trying to cast with a bad fly rod. In many cases, you do get what you pay for, performance wise. However, there are a lot of medium priced fly rods made today that cast better than rods that were considered top of the line 5-10 years ago.

The bottom line, use what you can afford and go have fun. I never looked down on a fisherman because of the rod/reel in his hand, and I wouldn't have anything to do with anyone with that kind of snobbish attitude. Fish don't care, neither do I.

Empire · 02-07-2002, 05:42 PM

Good point Amerman! I agree with the need for a quality reel for fishing, except when flyfishing, when you need a quality rod. My brother fly fishes with a quite expensive rod and reel set up, very pretty, lightweight and perfectly balanced. My flyrod is nice, but the reel cost me $15 at Kmart.

Go out into a stream to flyfish, catch one, then hold the rod under one arm, dunking the butt of your rod and reel into the water trying to unhook the fish.

The $200 reel my brother uses has ultra tight tolerances, mine is a bit wobly, and does not always make that clicking sound. My brother once dunked his reel into the sand as mentioned above, and a single grain of sand jammed up his entire reel. He sat there for 20 minutes trying to clean his reel of a single grain of sand. I can take a reelful of sand, and clean it by holding it underwater in the rapids! A couple of shakes to dry it and I am fishing again. :tongue:

cully · 02-07-2002, 06:04 PM

i fish with a scott rod and it's cost a bundle. The reel is the bottom end of orvis, 70 bucks. I was catching fish in the Deschutes one day and my son who has an Scientific Angler rod and reel tells me that it is because of the rod. I switched with him and start catching fish left and right. Rod or fisherman? I think it's the fish's choice.

papafsh · 02-07-2002, 06:51 PM

Ever put on a pair of $500 sunglasses? did things really look any better than they would with a $50 pair?

If you've got gear that is affordable, for you, it feels good in use, you catch fish with it and know what your doing, then relax and fish.

If on the other hand your not catching fish, don't know where to find'em, or just don't want to take the time to learn, a $5,000 dollar rod and $1,200 dollar reel won't get you any more fish or make you a better fisherman, or excuse me Aunty M & fishgal, woman.

Now if you can afford nicer gear ( read that more expensive) then go get it. I used to drive a $500 beater,it got me where I needed to go. Now I'm toolin' around in a 40K red convertable. I probably don't drive any better than I did before, but dang! it sure feels like I do! (Not to hot for a fishin' rig though)
Just a matter of personal priorities, it's all good!

papafsh · 02-07-2002, 07:02 PM

Sorry Jeannie did not mean to overlook you in my last post!
[img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

Bob Barthlow · 02-07-2002, 07:15 PM

Amerman, The same can be said with boats,bait,trucks,etc. they all work,it's just some work better than others....just my .02 cents. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

David Johnson · 02-07-2002, 07:53 PM

I guess it's got to do with personal prefference.

It sure is nice to hear my clients get in the boat and pick up a rod and say, "Nice equipment!"

I would rather give them the best instead of bargan basement.

Fishen Fool · 02-07-2002, 07:55 PM

Oh boy Scott, some advertising exectutive is going to have a contract out on you with that kind of thinking! I happen to agree with you, but it is human nature to try and keep up with the Jonese's.

omnivore · 02-07-2002, 08:06 PM

Thanks very much guys! I was just about to go buy an expensive steelhead rod, thinking that I really need that sensitivity to catch them light mouthing fish. There certainly is a sense of security in number, isn't there? All of your input really helped me change my mind!!!

I think I'm going to use the money saved for a nice set of golf clubs.

Bob Barthlow · 02-07-2002, 08:33 PM

Omnivore,buy a G.LOOMIS, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.

tommo · 02-07-2002, 08:45 PM

I own 3 Berkeley IM7s, and haven't had a problem yet. Medium 8'6" seems to feel excellent.

I would love to be able to afford the expensive gear, but fishing costs enough as it is.

Tagster · 02-07-2002, 08:50 PM

"It sure is nice to hear my clients get in the boat and pick up a rod and say, "Nice equipment!""

David, they are talking about your fishing rods, right? :grin: :grin: :grin: :smile:

Firedog · 02-07-2002, 09:06 PM

I dont think you "need" expensive rods to catch fish. I think the reason I switched years ago to higher end rods is the fact they are lighter and more comfortable to fish with all day. I do agree with Dave that they are more sensitive also, can give you that little extra edge when drift fishing. If you are pulling plugs or trolling it doesn't really matter what you are using, if you are drift fishing or casting spinners or something all day it does make a difference in my opinion. I build all my own rods and use Loomis blanks for them, after looking at the All-stars at the Sportsman's show today I plan on building a few of them and some rainshadows to use, looks like a high quality blank for a great price. Good to talk you today Superfly.

[ 02-07-2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: firedog ]

David Johnson · 02-07-2002, 09:16 PM

firedog, you're right. You don't "need" them but they do give you an extra edge that I'll willing to pay for.

And Tagster, that all depends on the cost of the trip :shocked:

WaterDog · 02-07-2002, 09:17 PM

I've got 3 berk IM7's as well. A 8-6 XH, 7-9 XH, and a 8-6 M. I have caught a ton of salmon on the 7-9 and a few keeper sturgie's. I've used the 8-6XH lately for sturgies and it works well Bottom line is they are great rod for the bucks.

My favorite is my Lami Willamette Special. For me it's been my most versitle rod. I use it bobber fishing in tidewater, trolling for springers and at buoy 10, anchor fishing spinners and wobblers, and sturgeon. Got it on sale for $99. :grin: I agree that you dont have to spend a fortune on rods. Sometimes you pay more for the name. I just bought an interpid spinning rod and I'll see how it fishes.

I do reels the same. 5500 or 6500 C3's. Not top of the line but a good mid range reel.

FEAR NO FISH! · 02-07-2002, 09:30 PM

Amerman,
With your eggs a fella could use a
weeping willow branch and some string and
still catch fish. I do think that you
can't have too many sticks. Of my
collection, Gloomis, Lamiglass, Sage, my
favorite rod is a shimano magnumlite.
That rod has fought over 800 stealhead
and 400 salmon. It just keeps going and
going and etc. If I could ever find
another one I would buy it in a
heartbeat! [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] :grin:

Bob Barthlow · 02-07-2002, 09:44 PM

steve,come on were all not fry.

Amerman · 02-07-2002, 10:31 PM

Sorry David I did not want or mean this to come across as any kind of personal thing. I have heard mostly great things about you and am sure you provide the best for your clients. It just got me thinking.

Firedog I agree that drift fishing and fishing bait you need the most feel. That's all I do I never pull plugs or troll.

I agree with all that said a good reel is priceless and must work and have a smooth drag.

Fishen fool I know I am killing all my Lamiglas and Loomis prostaff stuff.

What I am wondering is are we paying for the name of the rod when we buy Loomis and Lamiglas. I feel that many of the other rod makers make rods from similar blanks that cost way less. Don't get me wrong I own way to many Loomis's and Lamiglas's all of them bought at large guide discounts. I too have lots of clients get in my boat and talk about how great the equipment is most of the time their holding cheaper gear. Of all my rods for steelhead my favorite is a Browning Gold Medallion I found it one day many years ago while fishing on the river. I was just wondering if there is a difference. When I have fished with other rods I can not feel a difference. Maybe I have fished to much and maybe to knew people there is a difference. I don't know that's why I asked.

A few years ago I left my boat at the take out and ran up to get my rig while I was gone some low life got in my boat and stole one of my rods. In my boat were 3 G-Loomis 2 Lamiglas and an Eagle Claw, the dude stole my Eagle Claw.

Uncle Bob · 02-08-2002, 01:26 AM

Oh Yeah, Dave ROCKS!!!
No complaints here
:smile: :smile: :smile:

UB

TundraIII · 02-08-2002, 07:02 AM

Can't tell you how many times I've seen folks trolling for salmon with those 4 foot long
"fence boards". The same type of pole I used on a charter halibut trip in Alaska! Some
people just dont care what they use, and still manage to have a great time when they
hook a fish! If I'm drift fishin I take my Lami if I'm bobber or trolling I take berkley. Bought four berkley's on sale for the price of ONE of my Lami's, and have caught alot
of fish on these poles. I'll take the middle of the road, I've always been comfortable there! I use only Ambasseduer reels 5500 c3's and the 6500 c3. I grew up on these reels and have tried other more expensive reels but always go back to these. Dont need to impress anyone, I always have a good time. Go ahead and spend the big bucks, just keep a hanky ready when your customer or buddy drops one of your rigs
overboard or falls on it. Me, I'll just reach down and grab another one of my ol' dependable "average" rigs and keep fishing with a smile on my face :smile:

Fishing freak · 02-08-2002, 07:10 AM

Certainly, there is a trade-off. There are plenty of $60-$70 steelhead rods out there that will perform well and hold up. I am convinced that you get what you pay for. I built my son a IMX loomis trout rod 3 years ago and he is now catching 3 to my 1. We drift the Rogue for 2 weeks every summer and he has had numerous 100+ trout days. I don't know if it is his guick reflexes VS. my aging reflexes or what. I do no that he is hooked on the Loomis rods for life.

Wet_Willy · 02-08-2002, 07:16 AM

I've used the gamut of rods from fiberglass yellow sticks to my new favorite TH 9000s and I think the biggest improvement you will notice comes at the lower end. Going from the bottom of the rung rods in a barrel to the mid level rods (IM6 or IM7 blanks) you might find on sale for anywhere from $40 to $80. Prior to this year I had never spent more than $70 on a fishing rod and caught my fair share of fish. Once you feel the bite, you can catch fish on any rod. Some just take more concentration to differentiate what you are feeling. My new TH Rod is one of those 43,000 modulus rainshadow blanks and I can say I feel the very subtle pick ups better than I do on any of my other rods. Not that I wouldn't have felt them with my Berkley IM7, but it transmits through the rod at a more pronounced rate I think. Will I catch more fish with the TH Rod at double the cost of my Berkley? Probably not, but that is more from experience than equipment. All this being said, Experience makes all the difference, no rod at any cost sets the hook for you...

WW

hoochie · 02-08-2002, 07:18 AM

I have a 15 year old Rogue Rod that's accounted for more fish than I can count. It's paired with an Ambassaduer 6500c3 and I use it for almost everything that swims. I probably have no more than $100 in that combo.

My wife uses a Shakespeare Ugly Stik with a Shakespeare Tidewater reel and usually catches as many fish on that $80 combo as anyone. Go figure.

I feel like ' if it feels good, use it!' $$$$$$$$ doesn't make you a better fisherman.

By the way--- Doc Spratley, how'd you come by that name? Spratley happens to be my surname and I don't see too many people who know what a Doc Spratley is or where it originated. Do you?

drifter · 02-08-2002, 07:26 AM

Hey Omni - I want to emphasize a point made above. The one area I do think that sensitivity and rod selection make a difference is drift fishing for steelies. I know for a fact that changing from a heavier GL2 to a lighter (1082C) IMX has accounted for a 25-50% increase in hookups. Confidence, yes, but FEEL makes a difference. Trolling, bobber, etc - use what you can afford. But, drift fishing - spend the extra money - YOUR TIME SPENT FISHING IS TOO VALUABLE. Good fishing, Drifter.

Kinebra · 02-08-2002, 08:37 AM

Hay Scott just a word of thanks!

I haven't fished for Steelhead for at least five years. Booked a day with Scott we hooked 21, landed 11 and took 8 or 9 to the Brood Stock pond and on all that "cheap" gear! I have to say that Eagle Claw worked great (I'm glad it wasn't yellow, I may have had an issue with that

)

Save your money from the gear and buy some QUALITY bait!

Another thread is talking about how much it cost to go fishing...shouldn't we just fish more offten? I don't think a fish has ever looked at the gear in my boat prior to biting!

omnivore · 02-08-2002, 10:28 AM

Wet_Willy,
I think you meant to say '43,000,000 modulus'. Speaking of modulus, my Bass Pro Shop's Extreme steelhead rod has 54 million modulus, and there are others upto 85 million or more modulus rating. I think most Lamiglas and GLoomis blanks have lower modulus numbers. I've heard that these numbers alone don't fully represent the quality or sensitivity of the rod, and that there are few other factors involved in quality rod manufacturing process. So then my question is: when does the modulus rating mean something? What are the other factors that contribute to making up a quality rod. Is it a trade-off as some have alluded to (between sensitivity and strength)?

drifter,
I don't break many rods, but there is some comfort and peace of mind when I carry an inexpensive IM6 or IM7 class rod. I am not sure if I would have that when I'm toting a $200-300 rod. Accidents do happen, and I understand that they're not covered under the warranty (I've read the Lamiglas warranty carefully). I'd be a one big ****** off man if I ever step on or somehow break a Lami or Loomis

Nevertheless, I may give it a shot and see what the rantin' and rave is about :grin: Is that sun peeking out there? I'm outta here!

omnivore · 02-08-2002, 12:03 PM

Salmonator,
the solution to the problem is to have it tethered to your right arm (left arm for lefties, of course) and never leave it out of your sight. Eat, sleep, work, and fish with it at all times. The boss might give you a dirty look at first, but I'm sure she'll get used to it. Also, wife might have something to say about that when you come to bed at night. But you just cannot please everybody all the time, so you gotta do what a man's gotta do.

spinnermaker · 02-08-2002, 10:08 PM

Each rod has it place for drift fishing I like loomis , but for things like spinner fishing in bays . Any rod that lets you see your spinner work and has good back bone works . Back bouncing rods you don't need to pay alot to. plug rods I like loomis because they make the bests .

HORNBLOWER · 02-08-2002, 11:13 PM

This is a very interesting thread, considering that MOST of today's rods have, due to improved materials and engineering, progressed to stage where they can be genuinely debated. My first steelhead/trout rod in the 1940's was made of SOLID (tapered)STEEL! My uncle used a bamboo fly rod (with casting reel & bait) [which he broke on a 14#]steelhead. I can remember my dad & uncle discussing the great innovations regarding the first fiberglass rods that came on the market. I agree completely that the skill of the individual will determine the consistant success of that person, regardless of the equipment used. However, with those memories of my first fishing rods, I really enjoy the Loomis rods I own today.

Salmonator · 02-08-2002, 11:33 PM

Omnivore, lifetime loomis replacement cost if you break a rod is $50 dollars no matter how you break it. That is usually to your front door in two days. So actually you are only buying one expensive rod, each time you step on it or smash it in a car door it will be no more painful than buying a yellow rod off the rack. Now if some scumbag steals it, then you're sol.... Joe

fishbait · 02-09-2002, 07:17 AM

Scott,

Good thought provoking post. I basically agree with you, but what you failed to mention in the equation is angler skill and knowledge.

For a less skilled or knowledgable fisherman, the small edge that a more sensitive rod provides can matter in not only feel but confidance.