Recoil Guides

hooked_on_chrome · 02-23-2010, 09:10 AM

I'm thinking about using Recoil guides on my next build. Probably a steelhead spinning rod. Does anyone have experience with these? Pro and Cons? I'm looking at making this build as light as possible. Thanks in advance.

alice4227 · 02-24-2010, 06:07 AM

Using a #12, and 10 for stripper guides on a 3 wt fly rod. These are so lite and flexible, would be a great choice for a spinner. The bad is the metal is so hard it took me an hour a guide to prep the feet.Would not hesitate to use these from a trout rod to a tuna rod.The picture of the guide is with used thread on a test blank to see if I had the feet prepped correctly.Time will tell but so far very impressed.

StickFish · 02-24-2010, 06:48 AM

there are reports on the internet that these guides are subject to line erosion with braided lines and grove easily. Not sure about everything I read on the internet, but check rodbuilding's web site for yourself

hooked_on_chrome · 02-24-2010, 10:25 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I don't use braided line so that shouldn't be an issue. An hour a guide eh, so it should only take me 7 hours to prep the guide feet. At least it's not a casting rod.

CRD4Liberty · 02-24-2010, 07:22 PM

I've had no problems with the guide feet on the REC guides, the material is almost identical to stainless steel in hardness, all my files work well for shaping the feet. Don't use mechanical means to grind guide feet as any temp at all will melt the solder holding the spinning guides together. Some have had grooving problems even with mono, the tip tops groove first, that's the reason you see most production rods with a ceramic tip top.
It's very expensive as far as guides go, near as much as a true titanium Fuji guide, which I believe are superior. There are guides out there that are much lighter than the REC guides and much cheaper and won't groove even with braid.

alice4227 · 02-25-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRD4Liberty

I've had no problems with the guide feet on the REC guides, the material is almost identical to stainless steel in hardness, all my files work well for shaping the feet. Don't use mechanical means to grind guide feet as any temp at all will melt the solder holding the spinning guides together. Some have had grooving problems even with mono, the tip tops groove first, that's the reason you see most production rods with a ceramic tip top.
It's very expensive as far as guides go, near as much as a true titanium Fuji guide, which I believe are superior. There are guides out there that are much lighter than the REC guides and much cheaper and won't groove even with braid.

Liberty do you have pictures of your grooved guides and how was the warranty on the return?

hooked_on_chrome · 02-25-2010, 03:39 PM

Liberty what guides would you recommend? I'm open to options. I just like the idea of lightweight and flexible. I have been know to be hard on a rod or two.

CRD4Liberty · 02-27-2010, 03:46 AM

Not much of a picture taker, but I have a few of a GLX BCR 803 that lasted about 1.5 years before replacing the guides. PM me your email address.

CRD4Liberty · 02-27-2010, 04:00 AM

I've replaced a few REC guides that were broken because the user thought they could be bent about, all materials can only take so much abuse before failure. One customer thought he could put a spinning rod in a smaller tube for transport to Alaska for a bit of fishing. When he got there one guide was broken, another had broken out through the thread and finish. Lots of fly rods were returned in the early years by people, and it was always the same guide, seems everyone had to show their buddy's how their guide would fold over and spring back till........

The guides I was referring to aren't flexible guides, but the way they are built they snag up on things far less. Bass anglers are about as bad as anyone can be and they are pretty happy with the new guides and how they work in the rod lockers, etc.
Send a PM for more info and pictures.

camA · 02-28-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StickFish

there are reports on the internet that these guides are subject to line erosion with braided lines and grove easily. Not sure about everything I read on the internet, but check rodbuilding's web site for yourself

i highly doubt that it will cut into the guides. those guides are tough and the braid shouldnt cut thru the metal. i use spiderwire. its never cut thru any of my guides before

camA · 02-28-2010, 11:34 AM

http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Ring-Lock

try these out

CRD4Liberty · 03-03-2010, 07:21 AM

Sent a couple pictures of the rod I mentioned to hooked_on_chrome when he asked, they sure look grooved to me in multiple places. Cotton swabs hung up on the grooves big time. Since the change out in guides there hasn't been any problems, and the rod is a bit under an eighth of an ounce lighter. Big difference in perceived tip weight.

hooked_on_chrome · 03-03-2010, 08:43 AM

Liberty thanks for the pictures those guides are defiantly grooved. That's why I love this board. Without your help i'd have ordered them and would be rebuilding my rod in a couple years. So what are the thoughts on the American Tackle Titanium framed ring lock guides?

CRD4Liberty · 03-04-2010, 08:02 PM

I've had good luck with Ti Ringlock guides, I really like the Alps S/S guides from Batson also, they are pretty light and corrosion resistant. The AmTack guides aren't as light as the Ti Fujis and are a white metal color much like a chrome guide while the Fujis are more gunsmoke colored.

StickFish · 03-05-2010, 06:41 AM

The Alps guides come in two frame weights - XN and LXN. For lighter rods like for steelhead I use the LXN. For anything up to 40# I'll use the XN. They come in a bunch of different frame and ring finishes. Very good guides.

alice4227 · 03-07-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRD4Liberty

I've had no problems with the guide feet on the REC guides, the material is almost identical to stainless steel in hardness, all my files work well for shaping the feet. Don't use mechanical means to grind guide feet as any temp at all will melt the solder holding the spinning guides together. Some have had grooving problems even with mono, the tip tops groove first, that's the reason you see most production rods with a ceramic tip top.
It's very expensive as far as guides go, near as much as a true titanium Fuji guide, which I believe are superior. There are guides out there that are much lighter than the REC guides and much cheaper and won't groove even with braid.

Thank you for the pictures Liberty, but these pictures are the only ones on the web I could find and do not appear to be yours.Google (recoil line groove pictures).Titanium can not be soldered, only brazed or welded at 800f degrees and up.I can not say if they groove from synthetic line or not , but my first impression is this is a very good product, and being used on Loomis, St Croix, Rouge, on some of there high dollar rod's,W/ life time guaranties...would you put inferior guides on these rod's? Does anybody have a picture of a grooved Recoil guides of there own they could post?

CRD4Liberty · 03-07-2010, 12:12 PM

The REC guides are not titanium, if I remember right the metal is called Nitinol or something similar which is a memory metal that is about 55% nickel and than Ti and other metals. If you look it up it's Vickers hardness is almost identical to stainless, maybe because they both have Ni in them.
The spinning guides are soldered together and very easy to seperate with not much temp at all, I've done it. The wire is bent into shape at 800+ degrees and than let cool like all memory metals to get them to hold their shape.

alice4227 · 03-07-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRD4Liberty

The REC guides are not titanium, if I remember right the metal is called Nitinol or something similar which is a memory metal that is about 55% nickel and than Ti and other metals. If you look it up it's Vickers hardness is almost identical to stainless, maybe because they both have Ni in them.
The spinning guides are soldered together and very easy to seperate with not much temp at all, I've done it. The wire is bent into shape at 800+ degrees and than let cool like all memory metals to get them to hold their shape.

Yes recoils are nickel titanium alloy, you can not solder titanium. Post the Vickers guide of recoils, and we would all like to see (your own)pictures of grooved guides.

Tilla · 03-12-2010, 08:04 PM

Fished a 1141 with them a couple weeks ago. I thought they were great and will use them on my next build project.

E. Harry · 03-12-2010, 08:27 PM

The main advantage of the recoil guides is that they are lighter resulting in a rod that has a higher resonant frequency, shorter damping time, better sensitivity etc. But there are other, in my judgment better, alternatives. There are light weight guides now like the ALPS guides that are almost as light and also have ceramic inserts so they will not wear like the Recoil guides will and there are also the micro guides that are lighter then even the recoils.