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Old 02-12-2010, 06:43 PM   #1
duckslayer
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Default Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

So it has been decided that WA will change to single barbless hooks on the Columbia and some tributaries starting Jan 1 2011. I understand, you will still be able to use trebel hooks? They may throw this out if Oregon decides not to do it. They pretty much passed this right under our noses. If you know of any meetings in OR coming up discussing this, please go fight it. Could you imagine trolling for Springers with a single barbless hook? I'm just guessing, but I'd say you'll lose half the fish of what you normally land!

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Old 02-12-2010, 07:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

question: I have seen steelhead size( 2's-1's-ect) gammys with a circle hook? why would you want a circle hook for steelhead? are there any rivers or regions that require circle hooks for steelhead?








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So it has been decided that WA will change to single barbless hooks on the Columbia and some tributaries starting Jan 1 2011. I understand, you will still be able to use trebel hooks? They may throw this out if Oregon decides not to do it. They pretty much passed this right under our noses. If you know of any meetings in OR coming up discussing this, please go fight it. Could you imagine trolling for Springers with a single barbless hook? I'm just guessing, but I'd say you'll lose half the fish of what you normally land!
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

Every place I've ever fished that required single/barbless, they've had very few issues with losing fish. Don't they require them in the ocean for coho? Doesn't seem to slow many folks down while fishing there.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

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So it has been decided that WA will change to single barbless hooks on the Columbia and some tributaries starting Jan 1 2011. I understand, you will still be able to use trebel hooks? They may throw this out if Oregon decides not to do it. They pretty much passed this right under our noses. If you know of any meetings in OR coming up discussing this, please go fight it. Could you imagine trolling for Springers with a single barbless hook? I'm just guessing, but I'd say you'll lose half the fish of what you normally land!
You have to pay close attention to the language in the regulation. It will not be a single barbless hook. Two hooks will be legal. The original proposal wanted to get rid of trebles. I did not attend the commission meeting or review the tape, so I dont know why it was not adopted.

I caught a 24 # springer in the cowlitz, with a single siwash hook behind a Brads plug. You dont need treble hooks. They tear up the fish. The more wild fish we kill, the shorter the season. Idaho has been barbless for a long time. The salt water is also barbless.

relax.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

Man you guys must all be real pro fishermen because I think single barbless is the dumbest rule ever, it takes me no time at all to take a barbed hook out of a fish, and I always keep the wild fish in the water. Every time I have ever used single barbless especially on a crazy jumping summer steelhead they come off, does anyone know how hard it is to land a fish by yourself when you have no barb? If you get that fish to the bank and try to pull him up, once there is any slack in the line and the fish flops....byby he is in the water and swimming away. Also the fish in our systems that have a tendency to jump out of the water a lot? There isn't much you can do to keep pressure on the fish when he jumps, there is always going to be some sort of release in the pressure and bingo the fish pops off. On single barbless occasions your catch rate goes down at the least by 50% I don't care how good you are, this is a dumb rule. If they want to make more money and keep people fishing they shouldn't make it harder for us to harvest the fish that are put there for us to harvest. I say screw this rule, how bout we get rid of the nets!

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Old 02-12-2010, 10:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

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Originally Posted by duckslayer View Post
So it has been decided that WA will change to single barbless hooks on the Columbia and some tributaries starting Jan 1 2011. I understand, you will still be able to use trebel hooks? They may throw this out if Oregon decides not to do it. They pretty much passed this right under our noses. If you know of any meetings in OR coming up discussing this, please go fight it. Could you imagine trolling for Springers with a single barbless hook? I'm just guessing, but I'd say you'll lose half the fish of what you normally land!
Thats about all I troll with, and I loose maybe 5-10% of my fish on a bad day.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:02 AM   #7
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You have to pay close attention to the language in the regulation. It will not be a single barbless hook. Two hooks will be legal. The original proposal wanted to get rid of trebles. I did not attend the commission meeting or review the tape, so I dont know why it was not adopted.
Probably because if trebles were eliminated there would be a huge amount of standing tackle inventory that would immediately require significant modification prior to use, and be a huge headache and financial liability for sporting good suppliers. Pinching a barb is one thing...changing a hook is another.

Also, I don't buy the argument that trebles, especially barbless, tear up fish--I've never had a fish bleed out on me when taking a treble, but I've deeply hooked my fair share of fish on single hooks (fish that once released stood zero chance of survival). Nor have I ever had a treble get into an eye--but have done that plenty with shiwash.

I've come around to the argument that barbless is okay; never really had a problem with the concept itself. However, I am becoming weary of the obsession with legislative control over behavior. I don't want a world where every detail of life is written in a state-approved rule book. Besides, it feels like all of this is part of a larger agenda and I just don't have time to sort the petunias from the substance. Ultimately, you have to self-police anyway--I fish in Idaho and up the Snake on the Washington side all the time, I have never had anyone check my gear, or my license for that matter...ever...I suspect those who don't care about the rules won't follow them anyway.

So, I believe we've taken the hook legislation as far as it should go--if this is the change, then so be it. Normalize the rules across states, but after that, it should not be touched again unless it is in the direction of greater freedom.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

I belive that if you hang a single barbless 5/0 behind a K-15 you will get bit, and it will stick. Just play it well and it will be in the boat. Doug
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by luv2catch View Post
Every place I've ever fished that required single/barbless, they've had very few issues with losing fish. Don't they require them in the ocean for coho? Doesn't seem to slow many folks down while fishing there.

Ocean Coho freak out when hooked. They generally roll and jump on the surface. Barbless hooks account for a very large percentage of lossed salmon in the ocean.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

Are you guys kidding me? Save us from what? using barbless hooks? If you care about the fish you would not even think twice about this. Barbs are bad and you do not need them Did anyone hear eyefish talking about the wounds created by barbs?

"
It ain't rocket science.

As an eye surgeon, I can tell you which one I'd rather be plucking from your eye. Barbed means at least 5-10 times as long in the operating room extracting it and closing the exaggerrated wound.... not to mention all the other irreversible damage to the innards of the eye. These eyes are usually NOT salvageable.

Simply said, a barbed hook brutally rips and tears flesh on the way out.

It doesn't matter to a surgeon what body part is involved.... if tissues are not respected, the risk of hemorrhage, infection, disfigurement, and death go up!

BTW if it's of any interest, I don't know of a single surgeon nationwide who uses barbed needles. I'm sure all you patients out there appreciate that.
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Enough said for me too know using barbless is the right thing to do.

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Old 02-13-2010, 09:58 AM   #11
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Barbs = training wheels
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:36 PM   #12
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I pinch the barbs on every hook I use when salmon and steelhead fishing, and I only run single point hooks, never trebles. 1 out of around 20 fish comes unbuttoned for me, maybe less than that. A lot has to do with angles in which you are holding the rod when fish jump, roll, etc. Previous to pinching all barbs (always have for drift fishing with or without bait), I would leave the barbs on my jigs and lost a considerable number of fish on them. I have heard that the main reason for this is the longer hook shank is at fault. In that when the fish rolls the longer shank has more leverage to pry a hook free or at least get it rocking back and forth in the original hole created when you hooked the fish. When the barb is still intact that allows the hole to become that much wider because of the extra metal sticking out. Where with a barbless hook the initial hole created is much smaller and when the fish shakes its head there is not as much free play within the hole due to the barb being pinched and gone. Of course, that is just theory on the behalf of myself and my close group of fishing buddies. I have also read the same theory within the flyfishing community when comparing barbed vs barbless.

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Old 02-13-2010, 12:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

Didn't the Deschutes go from barb to barbless and back to barbed hooks? I wonder what the theory behind this was in regards to mortality? What about the same regs for the CR. No bait,but barbed hooks?
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:19 PM   #14
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Barbless for sturgeon sure made quick release easy. I think barbless for salmon and steelies would reduce stress and mortalities on returning adults.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:22 PM   #15
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Barbless for sturgeon sure made quick release easy. I think barbless for salmon and steelies would reduce stress and mortalities on returning adults.
Agreed. Additionally, how many sturgeon have you all had come unhooked, jumpers or not? I can't remember the last time I had the hook pop out of one. A few leader breaks through the years, but very, very rarely do they come unhooked. All on barbless.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:28 PM   #16
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Ocean Coho freak out when hooked. They generally roll and jump on the surface. Barbless hooks account for a very large percentage of lossed salmon in the ocean.
Try circle hooks. I think the commercial trollers use them. I know sporties do.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:58 PM   #17
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If you set the hook good and hard into the bone of a steelhead or salmons jaw, it's in there well enough that you have to screw up pretty bad to lose that fish. But, releasing them is significantly easier, if you need to release them and the fishery gets stronger. I fully support barbless hook laws.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:58 PM   #18
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Fishing in Northwest Calif. for many years with my friends, we all fished barbless...which was the law in most of the streams...our landed to not landed ratio never seemed to change at all. We believed that fishing barbless actually might have even helped a small amount. The reasoning is you did not need to have as good of hook set to get full penatration, due to not having to pull the barb through also. The other thing we all liked and was much better about fishing barbless, was the fact that if you caught a smolt all you usually needed to do was give the little guy some slack and off they would come(no touch no harm). I'm sure most of you are all for that, considering they are the future of are fishing lives. The only thing we really liked about the barb was that it held on are fish pill or other offerings. If you fight a fish without giving them any slack(which we all try to do) there should not be a problem.Don't sweat it!
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:55 PM   #19
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I'll support barbless if they let us use the second pole permit on the Columbia.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:36 PM   #20
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Didin't the study that Bob Toman was part of below Willamette falls, a few years back, prove that barbs had little to no effect on fish mortality. The bait / lure had an effect, but the hooks had little.....I could be wrong, it's happened before.

As far as claiming that you don't lose fish with barbless hooks, if a fish can shake a barbed hook as easily as a barbless, WHAT'S THE POINT OF BARBLESS? Of COURSE you will lose more fish with barbless, that's the point. The fish CAN shake the hook easier, that's the point! All you have to do to release a fish with a barbless hook is throw some slack.

Having said this, I fish barbless a LOT, ALWAYS when fishing wild Trout and as the law requires. You CAN land plenty of fish with barbless hooks. But I want a barbed hook (training wheels) on many of the lures I use on the Columbia.


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Old 02-15-2010, 03:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by steeladdicted View Post
Man you guys must all be real pro fishermen because I think single barbless is the dumbest rule ever, it takes me no time at all to take a barbed hook out of a fish, and I always keep the wild fish in the water. Every time I have ever used single barbless especially on a crazy jumping summer steelhead they come off, does anyone know how hard it is to land a fish by yourself when you have no barb? If you get that fish to the bank and try to pull him up, once there is any slack in the line and the fish flops....byby he is in the water and swimming away. Also the fish in our systems that have a tendency to jump out of the water a lot? There isn't much you can do to keep pressure on the fish when he jumps, there is always going to be some sort of release in the pressure and bingo the fish pops off. On single barbless occasions your catch rate goes down at the least by 50% I don't care how good you are, this is a dumb rule. If they want to make more money and keep people fishing they shouldn't make it harder for us to harvest the fish that are put there for us to harvest. I say screw this rule, how bout we get rid of the nets!
Man... If you can't land a steelhead without a barb then you need to work on your fishing techniques. Im not trying to bash, but we have been using barbless hooks up in WA for years. I fish the Puyallup several times every year when the salmon come in. Barbless hooks are required. Ive had absolutely no problem landing kings, silvers, and pinks with barbless hooks. It is very easy to drag a fish into shallow water or on to the beach and keep the line tight. I can honestly say I don't think Ive seen any difference between barbed and barbless hooks when fishing that particular river...
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:35 AM   #22
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have used both single siwash ( barbless ) and treble hooks on my Kfish. have seen no difference in lost fish. what makes a difference is when a seal or lion is after your catch - in most cases the fisherman has lost a fish.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:40 AM   #23
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I caught in excess of 140 salmon in rivers this year on barbless hooks and only lost 7 ( I keep a daily log). Most fish were caught on eggs or shrimp. I really don't think it makes any difference.My .
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:17 AM   #24
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I would accept it IF we got a reduction in impact of 1% or more. If it's just another regulation, then no support.

As far as losing fish-It depends on the technique. Eggs seem to show little difference(So long as you don't give em slack). Herring are much more of a problem.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:23 AM   #25
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WHAT'S THE POINT OF BARBLESS? Of COURSE you will lose more fish with barbless, that's the point. The fish CAN shake the hook easier, that's the point! All you have to do to release a fish with a barbless hook is throw some slack.
One of the other arguments that I've heard (though this pertains to smaller rivers than the Columbia for the most part) is to save the lives of smolt... especially wild smolt. Smolt tend to hit everything that comes remotely close to them (I remember having trouble keeping them off my line on a few occasions). A huge salmon or steelhead sized hook with a barb will make it pretty hard to get that hook out without severely damaging the smolt and killing it.

It has nothing to do with allowing fish to get off your hook... at least I've never heard that as part of the reasoning behind it. It's simply so you don't do as much damage to wild fish, smolts or full grown, that you'd have to release.

And considering that something like 9 out of 10 smolts are killed or eaten on their way to the ocean, we should probably do what we can to have a small impact on their already tough journey, thus allowing the fishery to get stronger.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:37 AM   #26
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Didin't the study that Bob Toman was part of below Willamette falls, a few years back, prove that barbs had little to no effect on fish mortality. The bait / lure had an effect, but the hooks had little.....I could be wrong, it's happened before.

As far as claiming that you don't lose fish with barbless hooks, if a fish can shake a barbed hook as easily as a barbless, WHAT'S THE POINT OF BARBLESS? Of COURSE you will lose more fish with barbless, that's the point. The fish CAN shake the hook easier, that's the point! All you have to do to release a fish with a barbless hook is throw some slack.

Having said this, I fish barbless a LOT, ALWAYS when fishing wild Trout and as the law requires. You CAN land plenty of fish with barbless hooks. But I want a barbed hook (training wheels) on many of the lures I use on the Columbia.

I was an anger in the hook mortality studdy with Bob. (It was a gas by the way!) The first day I landed 38 springers to the net with barbs. Second day 16 with out barbs. We also did cirlce hooks, thus the reason I dont use them for salmon and steelhead.

Barbs on Salmon and Steelhead? Uh..no.


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Old 02-15-2010, 10:02 AM   #27
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Connelly - I'll bet sitting below the falls with Bob T. , landing 38 'nook was NO FUN AT ALL!!!!

As far as smolt mortality goes.....Give us waterfowlers a more libral limit on Mergansers. Open a season on Cormorant and let us "thin the herd"

AND YES we WILL eat them....MMMMmmmmm Cormorant sausage!!
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:04 AM   #28
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Connelly - I'll bet sitting below the falls with Bob T. , landing 38 'nook was NO FUN AT ALL!!!!

As far as smolt mortality goes.....Give us waterfowlers a more libral limit on Mergansers. Open a season on Cormorant and let us "thin the herd"

AND YES we WILL eat them....MMMMmmmmm Cormorant sausage!!
WOOPS!! I posted as my wife, but she feels the same way!!

She would probably have less trouble landing a Salmon on a Barbless Flat / Kwikfish than me!!
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:22 AM   #29
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Man you guys must all be real pro fishermen because I think single barbless is the dumbest rule ever, it takes me no time at all to take a barbed hook out of a fish, and I always keep the wild fish in the water. Every time I have ever used single barbless especially on a crazy jumping summer steelhead they come off, does anyone know how hard it is to land a fish by yourself when you have no barb? If you get that fish to the bank and try to pull him up, once there is any slack in the line and the fish flops....byby he is in the water and swimming away. Also the fish in our systems that have a tendency to jump out of the water a lot? There isn't much you can do to keep pressure on the fish when he jumps, there is always going to be some sort of release in the pressure and bingo the fish pops off. On single barbless occasions your catch rate goes down at the least by 50% I don't care how good you are, this is a dumb rule. If they want to make more money and keep people fishing they shouldn't make it harder for us to harvest the fish that are put there for us to harvest. I say screw this rule, how bout we get rid of the nets!

We've been using barbless hooks in the ocean for years and loose very few. Many guides have posted suggestions on this subject and they say use circle hooks. They do work, I filled a tag (26 fish) on barbless hooks last year. If I can, you can do it too.
Think about it, when you go sturgeon fishing you use barbless hooks there and talk about a fighter and a jumper! How many of those do you loose?
I think the trick is a medium heavy pole and keeping the tip up- tension on the line/fish at all times. Netting by yourself may be tricky but it can be done.
From the sounds of it those fish you loose are from tearing the hook out of the mouth or setting the hook on a salmon. Relax and let the fish fight. Yell scream and enjoy the fun of fishing. Your prize is the take down, a singing reel, reeling in and the fish jerking on that pole doing the super dance. The whole environment of "catching" is awesome and it's why fishing is so popular. Secondly... quit your whining about who gets more fish than you and how hard "they" are making it on you. When you aren't doing as well as others, learn how others catch fish and retain what they want. Do you think guides are going to quit fishing because they have to use barbless hooks? I doubt that!
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: Single barbless hooks..Oregon, please save us!

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Man you guys must all be real pro fishermen because I think single barbless is the dumbest rule ever, it takes me no time at all to take a barbed hook out of a fish, and I always keep the wild fish in the water. Every time I have ever used single barbless especially on a crazy jumping summer steelhead they come off, does anyone know how hard it is to land a fish by yourself when you have no barb? If you get that fish to the bank and try to pull him up, once there is any slack in the line and the fish flops....byby he is in the water and swimming away. Also the fish in our systems that have a tendency to jump out of the water a lot? There isn't much you can do to keep pressure on the fish when he jumps, there is always going to be some sort of release in the pressure and bingo the fish pops off. On single barbless occasions your catch rate goes down at the least by 50% I don't care how good you are, this is a dumb rule. If they want to make more money and keep people fishing they shouldn't make it harder for us to harvest the fish that are put there for us to harvest. I say screw this rule, how bout we get rid of the nets!

I have landed 126 steelhead this season on a barbles single #4 hook. I have lost 12. I just went through my journal to see, so it can be done. Less than 10% is doable, you just need to work on your teqnique. I hope they make the entire columbia single barbless that would be great.
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