powerlines on the sandy

Premo · 01-20-2002, 08:57 AM

Does anybody know why you can not fish from a boat above the powerlines on the sandy?? I always wonder that when drifting the river. Such a pain to beach the boat to fish above here.

thanks
ian

Artwo · 01-20-2002, 10:07 AM

ian,
The short story I believe was to protect the spawning salmon since there are allot of spawning areas within the boundry of Oxbow park and above. If you want a more indepth conversation contact Jack Glass in Troutdale, he has been working for quite awhile to have this rule removed.

JK

WheresMyBobber · 01-20-2002, 03:02 PM

This is a particular sore spot with me. I've drifted from Oxbow down many, many, many times, both before and after the "powerline ruling".
To say this rule was put into effect to protect bank angler opportunity is garbage.

If I ever saw any bank anglers from the Oxbow ramp down to the powerlines, I might agree to some extent. But out of every 10 trips I've made, I see MAYBE 2 bank anglers. Most of my fishing is done during the week, and maybe it's different on the weekends. But to say this law has any merit during the week is ridiculous. We even brought a video camera on 5 consecutive drifts to verify the non-existence of bank anglers. We saw none on those 5 drifts. All this law does is cram up the drift boats in a smaller area and makes them skip over some great water.

I've talked to Jack about this too, and know how hard he's worked to have it changed back. I'm more than willing to do what I can to help if an organized grass roots effort is ever started.

wiser · 01-20-2002, 03:39 PM

All I can say is that you weren't drifting when fish were being caught. A couple hundred cars a day(on weekdays)into Qxbow Park these past few weeks must have put a few bankies out fishing. Why not open the whole river up ton sleds?I never see a drift boat above the powerline after about noon.
WMB,
What do you want it changed back to? From 1945 till 1986 the angling from a flaoting device deadline was the Stark Street Bridge. In 1986 it was moved to the mouth of Big Creek, obout 3/4 miles upriver from the current powerline. Due to several documented "social conflict" issues including at least one involving threats with a handgun and shots fired, the deadline was moved to the powerline location in 1987.
If there was a reason to put this regulation into effect in 1945 I would suspect there is still reason.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Wiser? ]</p>

ssteelheadsteve · 01-20-2002, 05:16 PM

You can all thank my old friend the late Jim Conway for the powerboat/bank angling restrictions.This was not his doing alone but he was very visible at the time. Landowners on the Sandy had more clout in the sixties and they didn't like " Lucky Jim " fishing their water.Jim would often jet sled to the pipeline hole and return with limits while the property owners plunked with little success.There is no biologiacal reason for the rule.Below the Salmon River there is very little mainstem spawning.Most of the fish spawning below Marmot are hatchery fish.Despite what PGE will tell you.I doubt you will see this rule changed.The last effort ended at a commission meeting with a 7-1 ratio against opening the lower river in the Park to boat angling.As an aside to the thread it is my opinion that the legislature/state and county agencies are intentionally crowding anglers into smaller spaces so as to create "social conflicts" which are then remidied by closing access,cutting hatchery releases or rule changes that in effect increase your angling displeasure.The locked gate at Hagar's and the No Parking signs along the lower Sandy & Clack are good examples.

wiser · 01-20-2002, 05:31 PM

sss,
As an addition to your aside. How is it the public agencies are crowding folks into smaller and smaller places. Aren't the postings you pointed out on private property and posted by private property owners. I don't know of any public land on the Sandy receiving recent postings to limit anglers. What about the states' findings on the navigability study? Is that an effort to close or limit angler access? I'm aware of several efforts by public agencies to acquire public access.I'm not aware of them selling any.
Maybe I'm missing something.

WheresMyBobber · 01-20-2002, 05:53 PM

Wiser, first I want to ensure you that I'm not attacking you, this is just something we'll have to agree to disagree on. Nothing personal intended.

I was quite happy with being able to start fishing at Big creek, and would be happy if it were ever changed back to that status. (although as SSS said, the sad reality is that it probably never will be) This opened up enough river to spread out the boaters, and allowed them to fish some really good water that currently goes unfished to a large degree. Right now, drift boaters have to skip a lot of water for the benefit of bank anglers, then we float downstream only to find bank anglers fishing the water we hoped to fish!

Regarding the "social conflicts", c'mon. Can you honestly name a river where that type of thing doesn't happen? I"ve witnessed fights and arguments bank angler VS bank angler, bank angler VS boat angler, and boat angler VS boat angler. No, they don't all involve guns, but I have seen that happen. Anyway, that's a poor example. In my opinion that must mean that if they change the rules back people will be out there pulling guns on each other. That's not any more likely to happen on the Sandy than it is on any other river. Unfortunately where ever there are fish and fishermen, there will be conflicts.

Premo · 01-20-2002, 06:14 PM

well for one thing there is tons of people on the rivers anyway. would'nt it spread the boaters out If you could fish above the deadline. Its kind of lame to race down and then see 10 driftboats doing the same thing. I have caught fish by beaching the boat and fishing but I like to fish the whole river and it can get annoying to beach it and everybody get out. I see few people below the boat launch anyway. I just think it would be better if people could just fish the whole river. I love to fish the sandy but i hate the race to the powerlines.

ian

WheresMyBobber · 01-20-2002, 06:17 PM

Wiser, you have email. :smile:

wiser · 01-20-2002, 06:35 PM

WMB,
I understand we are just disagreeing on an issue. I have monitored this issue for the past twenty years and I have been personally attacked over my position. I do know the difference. I wasn't trying to attack you either, just wondered if you knew all the history. Guess my post could be interpreted as attacking you. Sorry if that was the case. I'm sure the issue will come up in future angling regulation change discussions. I wish this thing didn't come up as often as it does. I begin to feel like I'm beating a dead horse while supporting the retention of a long standing regulation. I'm guessing those who support a change, feel the same.
Oh well, makes life interesting and makes us keep on our toes so someone doesn't slip one by us.

SandySteel · 01-20-2002, 09:22 PM

I'm backing up Wiser? here on this issue. The deal is that there is not much easy bank access on the Sandy. I know that there are those in our community who would love to be able to do the easy kind of fishing that doesn't involve moving your feet, wading, or learning the subtle techniques of drift fishing. Keep in mind that I have not gone fishing without my boat for about 3 years now. Personally, I think that if fishing from a boat was allowed in Oxbow that many of the nice runs that a bank angler can walk into would get socked in by anglers fishing from a boat.
Regarding Ian Premo's frustration in having to do the Peninsula push to get to the boat water I say why not slow down. Get out of the boat and hit some water that other bank anglers can't easily reach. There is quite a bit. I realize that you have to stop, get out, pull the boat up on shore, walk to the spot and fish. So what?
I have caught more fish in the Oxbow to Dabney run by hopping out and drift fishing inaccessible areas than all of my plug fishing combined. I hate rushing and battling to get to the powerlines. It makes it unfun. Instead, why not stop, get out look around and get to know what is going on around you?

Eric

SandySteel · 01-20-2002, 09:34 PM

I drifted from Dodge Park to Oxbow today with a couple of friends. We saw two other boats on the river today. We landed four fish. It was a beautiful day on the river. That section is one of the prettiest around.
One question I have for you to possibly address here Wiser? is why fishing from a boat is not allowed above Oxbow. The bank access is extremely tough except for a few well worn areas. The likelihood of user conflict in this area seems remote if fishing from a boat was allowed.
The run is quite long and when you are short on daylight (and open park hours) not being able to do things like boondogle as you transit from run to run is a little perplexing.
What are your thoughts on having this area opened to angling from a boat?

Firedog · 01-20-2002, 09:34 PM

I have to agree with Eric on this. Like I said in the other thread I prefer to drift fish so it isn't that big of deal to pull off and walk some bank that isn't accessible to the guys in the park. There is plenty of good water to drift fish or bobber fish. This also leaves the park guys the runs that they get to first, if you feel the need to rush down the river to get the plug water first go right ahead. That leaves the good drifting water to those of us that seem to want it :smile:

wiser · 01-20-2002, 11:22 PM

This rule is in place both to address social issues and to Assist ODFW in the part of it's mission to "provide a diversity of angling opportunities". Read Bill Monroes article in the Sunday sports page and you get an idea of some of the conflicts that occur. There is easy bank access throughout the section of river between the Oxbow boat ramp and the powerlines, 3.6 miles below the ramp. The prime holding reas for steelhead are limited and this rule puts anglers who have access to a boat and those who don't on equal footing in pursuit of these fish. Artwo, could you imagine a boat anchored at the bottom of the drift you fish? Or a boat backing plugs down? Please don't tell me it wouldn't happen. Anglers who put boats in at Oxbow have a multitude of areas where they can stop and fish water that isn't easily accessed on foot. It is all public land but the hike in is a little much for most.
The Sandy is divided up to provide three different opportunities on the lower 12 miles of boatable water. The 3.6 miles from the Oxbow Boat Ramp to the powerlines is restricted to bank angling. The section from the powerlines to Stark street Bridge( about 4 miles of river)can be fished from the bank or from a non-motorized boat and the lower 6.5 miles in open for motorized boats, drift boats and bank angling, dividing angling methods and type of experience that can be experienced.
I too have been involved with this issue for many years. Both on a personal and professional level. I currently own or have owned a Larsen Tri hull, Willie Ptredator,McKenzie style wooden drift boat, 12' raft with oaring frame, canoe and float tube.I fish from them all and I enjoy the opportunity to fish from the bank. I believe it's a small sacrifice for those of us who boat, to give up this small 3.6 mile section of river to those who can't or don't wish to fish from a floating device.
I would be more than happy to discuss this further with anyone interested. This issue will continue to surface so I will continue to address it and try to answer questions about it.

wiser · 01-21-2002, 07:12 AM

My understanding is that there has been opposition from folks who might be involved in rescue/recovery efforts if that section were opened. Anglers may feel it's a safe drift.
I'm not entering an argument on this one, just my understandsing. Even with no angling from a floating device allowed I know of several mishaps by anglers. Even one's who are very experienced. Other statements I have heard regarding that section is "Anyone who spends the time and effort to hike into one of those areas should be able to expect some solitude and not find a boat anchored in all the productive spots" and "There would be combat if a boat tried to anchor fish the pipeline or girl scout hole." Again, I'm not saying these are my arguments however they may have some validity. I would think this would confuse things even more. Yes, we know where Dodge Park, Oxbow boat Ramp, powerlines and Stark Street bridge are but it amazes me the number of people who don't have a clue.