Melting lead

[k12580h]

Hello I have a question about melting lead and solider toughter can it be done to make weights? I have a coffe can full of lead and some other stuff that bends and looks like lead but doesnt weigh as much Im not sure what it is it could be solider. should I melt it down with the lead or should I just use straight lead? Any help would be appreciated.

[salmon123]

lead is lead, just melt it down and keep skipping the top to remove all the dirt, grime, etc. hope it helps

[Adrenaline Junkey]

Some solder has lead in it. It would be OK but as you add alloys the weight gets lighter. not by much but it does. Just make sure its not an aluminum as it would melt and you will have to fish it out

[salmonslayer204]

Ok, this may be more info than you want but here it goes.

I am an expert in lead and solder, not because I want to be but because I have been forced to be throughout my master's research. I am particularly educated in liquid metals and their behavior under different conditions.

Solders used to be made of primarily tin and lead. It could be that what you have is solder, seeing that it is less dense than lead. As far as melting it all together, go right ahead. Lead and tin react with each other and there will be many intermetallics formed in the process.

Basically, they will stick to one another and it will all apear on the macroscopic scale as one material. The only implication of doing so is that for the same volume of material, say a 6 ounce fishing lead mold, you will have a resulting fishing 'lead' that is less than 6 ounces. The actual mass will depend on the composition of your new material.

The new solders do not have lead in them. New solders can have silver, tin, bismuth, indium, copper, and other materials. Don't worry about saftey with any of these, they are all safer than lead. Personally, I don't think lead is all that dangerous, but there is a ton of concern these days.

So there ya go. Probably more than you wanted/needed to know but just thought I'd help. All of the metals listed have relatively low melting temperatures (except copper and silver but if they are present there is only a tiny bit) so you shouldn't have any trouble melting your stuff.

Good luck!

[k12580h]

salmonslayer204

Thank you verry much for the info, it was exactly what I was looking for. This is my first time melting so I appreciate everyones help. Looks like i will stick to useing straight lead are least what I think is lead. I'll experiment with the other material another day separately. thanks again.

[Kerry Hansen]

And I am sure you know this, But plenty of ventilation. Also since you said this is your first time, always be careful that no Moisture (H2O) gets accidently added to the molten lead or you may get serious splatter. Wear Eye Protection.
thoroughly skim slag off the top to get the best pour.

[k12580h]

The slag is that than just garbage to throw away?

[TooDrunkToFish]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer204

Ok, this may be more info than you want but here it goes.

I am an expert in lead and solder, not because I want to be but because I have been forced to be throughout my master's research. I am particularly educated in liquid metals and their behavior under different conditions.

Solders used to be made of primarily tin and lead. It could be that what you have is solder, seeing that it is less dense than lead. As far as melting it all together, go right ahead. Lead and tin react with each other and there will be many intermetallics formed in the process.

Basically, they will stick to one another and it will all apear on the macroscopic scale as one material. The only implication of doing so is that for the same volume of material, say a 6 ounce fishing lead mold, you will have a resulting fishing 'lead' that is less than 6 ounces. The actual mass will depend on the composition of your new material.

The new solders do not have lead in them. New solders can have silver, tin, bismuth, indium, copper, and other materials. Don't worry about saftey with any of these, they are all safer than lead. Personally, I don't think lead is all that dangerous, but there is a ton of concern these days.

So there ya go. Probably more than you wanted/needed to know but just thought I'd help. All of the metals listed have relatively low melting temperatures (except copper and silver but if they are present there is only a tiny bit) so you shouldn't have any trouble melting your stuff.

Good luck!

Great info Slayer. Thanks.

Question: I picked up a bucket of used wheel weights from a tire shop a few years ago. There were some weights in there that didn't quite have the appearance of lead. More of dull and lighter gray look, versus that darker gray/shiny look of lead wheel weights. What is that material (a more advance/alternative material for wheel weight perhaps?) and will it melt in my Lee melting pot?

[salmonslayer204]

Originally Posted by TooDrunkToFish

Great info Slayer. Thanks.

Question: I picked up a bucket of used wheel weights from a tire shop a few years ago. There were some weights in there that didn't quite have the appearance of lead. More of dull and lighter gray look, versus that darker gray/shiny look of lead wheel weights. What is that material (a more advance/alternative material for wheel weight perhaps?) and will it melt in my Lee melting pot?

What you are seeing is oxidized lead. I am no expert at wheel weights however. I think that most have been lead and unless there is some new piece of useless legislation mandating wheel weights to be something other than lead, I would expect them to still be lead.

Oxidized lead is no big deal. It will just come off as the 'slag' that others are mentioning here. It has a white-ish gray appearance and can become thick over time. (thick as in thousandths of an inch, not the whole piece) The lead oxides have a higher melting temperature than lead itself and you will not be able to melt them. What will happen however is the lead will melt inside the oxide shell and likely break the oxide layer. If it doesn't just jab it with a steel or glass rod or something and it will break.

The lead oxide will float to the top (as it is less dense than lead because of the oxygen content) and can be easily skimmed off. You can tell that your lead is oxide free (it will never really be completely free of oxides in air) when the molten lead is very shiny. If you let it sit in your pan for a while, you can actually watch the oxide layer form. It will start to turn dull, then eventually become purple and blue and junked up. Again, just skim that off.

You will have no trouble melting the wheel weights in your normal melting pot. Just be sure to remove the steel clips! I could be wrong about the wheel weight composition, but I've never had one I couldn't melt in an electric pot. They may be some alloy but it really doesn't matter, they'll still be primarily lead and low melting.

Have fun be sure you catch lotsa fish after all your hard work!

[salmonslayer204]

Also, looking back to the original question, I suppose I didn't really answer the question.

Lead melts at 327ºC and tin is at 232ºC. So in theory, a solder material should be between these two and therefor easier to melt than lead. If it doesn't melt as easily as lead, it probably isn't solder.

Both oxidize readily in air and will form lots of slag. Only de-slag right before you pour for best results. It helps having a hot hold too. (not so hot as to keep it molten, but just to keep it from freezing in the neck)

[Adrenaline Junkey]

Lead wheel weights are a thing of the past enjoy them why you can get them they have went to steel and zinc. california has been that way for a year and all the other states are following but they aren't illegal yet. zinc will melt but its doesn't cast worth a crap and will clog up lead pots and molds. watch for them and discard them

[Mark Mc]

Part of being an "expert" in a profession, is to be clear about what your expertise is, and is not. So you have heard some great information about metallurgy and the behavior of metals.

You also heard a statement:

Personally, I don't think lead is all that dangerous, but there is a ton of concern these days.

This is not the kind of statement one would hear from people who are in the health & safety profession. Quite the contrary. It has been proven beyond doubt what chronic lead exposure will do, along time ago. Not just "these days." You should strive for zero inhalation exposure, and you should strive for zero cross-contamination into your house (i.e. clothing, skin, shoes). Most of all, if you have young children around, you should think long & hard about processing lead around your house. It had better be in an area that is always 100% separate from where kids can be.

Also, the comment "Don't worry about saftey with any of these, they are all safer than lead"

should be taken with a grain of salt. It's not as though there is always an apples / apples comparison of the hazards of one metal vs another. For example, lead affects the nervous system, and is a developmental toxin for young people (i.e., when children get chronic exposure, it results in low IQ's / learning disabilities). But indium fume exposure affects pulmonary function, and systemically affects the bone.

If you don't know how to go about setting up an operation for zero exposure, you might want to do some homework on it before turning on the burner.

p.s. Salmonslayer, I'm not trying to pick on you; please don't take it that way.

[shaggy357]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer204

I am an expert..... !

Must be a Coug!!

Go Cougs!!

How's fishing down on the Snake? Winters still hot and heavy W of Clarkston bridge?

Steve

[k12580h]

Well just order the melting pot,cleaner,2 molds and some powder coat paint for the jig heads hopefully the powder coat is as easy as the video explaind. I already have a ladle` So I think Im set. thanks for all your advise. I will let you know how they turn out or even post a pic.

[Tuna Chaser]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer204

Also, looking back to the original question, I suppose I didn't really answer the question.

Lead melts at 327ºC and tin is at 232ºC. So in theory, a solder material should be between these two and therefor easier to melt than lead. If it doesn't melt as easily as lead, it probably isn't solder.

Both oxidize readily in air and will form lots of slag. Only de-slag right before you pour for best results. It helps having a hot hold too. (not so hot as to keep it molten, but just to keep it from freezing in the neck)

I have a related question regarding weight differences. Do you know, or can you tell me where to look it up, what the weight difference is between lead and zinc. I want to cast some larger Sumo/Salas type jigs from a mold I make from plaster, so clogging up a mold isn’t an issue for me as it is an open topped type of mold. I’ve used lead or babbit for years, but wanted to try something lighter so I could get the larger size without the added weight. If there’s not that much of a difference, then perhaps you would recommend something else. I have never tried to melt or cast aluminum, but have wanted to try it. Maybe it would be a waist of time. Any help would be appreciated.

[Kerry Hansen]

in round numbers zinc weighs 446LBS/cubic foot and melts about 786 degree F
lead 680LBS/cubic foot melts 477 degree F

[k12580h]

When you skim the slag off the top what do you guys do with it?

[CaughtSteelin]

Throw it away. Last time it got mixed in with the overflow, so it got throw back in the pot. Just make sure it's cooled when you chuck it in the garbage can.

On the lead ventilation, just do what you feel is right. I'm with salmonslayer. I think it's hyped up to much. At the most you might feel clogged up for 2-3 days from heavy ventilation. But from sitting outside with wind blowing away from you; you don't get too much exposure.

Good luck on the jigs. By far the way to go and money saving.

[k12580h]

Witch is better a lead melter that pours or one you ladle. I got the one that you ladle out I'am thinking I should of gotten one that pours sence Im only going to be makeing jigs up to 1/4oz I have the magnum melter but was thinking about sending it back and getting the production pot What do you guys think would be better for what I tend to use it for?

[MattPark]

In my humble opinion, the biggest danger with melting lead is moisture.

[k12580h]

Originally Posted by k12580h

Witch is better a lead melter that pours or one you ladle. I got the one that you ladle out I'am thinking I should of gotten one that pours sence Im only going to be makeing jigs up to 1/4oz I have the magnum melter but was thinking about sending it back and getting the production pot What do you guys think would be better for what I tend to use it for?

Any advice ???

[Kerry Hansen]

Melt in a cast iron pot and ladle and pour into your mold.

[Tuna Chaser]

For pouring smaller type jigs like to mentioned, Hilt and Do-It make a melting pot that has a bottom pouring spout that is much easier than the larger pot and laddle you have now. It holds about 4 pounds which is a lot of 1/4 oz. jig heads. What you have now are best for making larger cannonball type sinkers and larger jigs which need to be poured a little faster so they don't set up before the mold fills with lead.

[Adrenaline Junkey]

I built a big steel pot for melting large quantities and then i just pour it into a soup can that i have bent the top of to make like a little spout. I use vise grips to hang onto the can. works good and cheap you can come across many cans easily

[k12580h]

Well I sent back the magnum melter and have the lee's production pot on the way its says its made to hold up to 10# and pour up to 1/2oz jig heads and 1oz sinkers I think this one would be the way to go Im only going to use it for makeing 1/16oz to 1/4oz round head jigs and 1/4oz to 3/4oz trolling sinkers. I tested out the powder paint I got and man that stuff is slick.

[tatered]

Originally Posted by Mark Mc

Part of being an "expert" in a profession, is to be clear about what your expertise is, and is not. So you have heard some great information about metallurgy and the behavior of metals.

You also heard a statement:

Personally, I don't think lead is all that dangerous, but there is a ton of concern these days.

This is not the kind of statement one would hear from people who are in the health & safety profession. Quite the contrary. It has been proven beyond doubt what chronic lead exposure will do, along time ago. Not just "these days." You should strive for zero inhalation exposure, and you should strive for zero cross-contamination into your house (i.e. clothing, skin, shoes). Most of all, if you have young children around, you should think long & hard about processing lead around your house. It had better be in an area that is always 100% separate from where kids can be.

Also, the comment "Don't worry about saftey with any of these, they are all safer than lead"

should be taken with a grain of salt. It's not as though there is always an apples / apples comparison of the hazards of one metal vs another. For example, lead affects the nervous system, and is a developmental toxin for young people (i.e., when children get chronic exposure, it results in low IQ's / learning disabilities). But indium fume exposure affects pulmonary function, and systemically affects the bone.

If you don't know how to go about setting up an operation for zero exposure, you might want to do some homework on it before turning on the burner.

p.s. Salmonslayer, I'm not trying to pick on you; please don't take it that way.

Marc C,

Are you the safety director at your work? just curious

[bassin]

Originally Posted by MattPark

In my humble opinion, the biggest danger with melting lead is moisture.

And we both know that 1st hand.

[marthagofish]

Here's how I pour....

I use a the large Lee melting pot to pre-melt the bulk lead.
It gets the lead up to a temp that close to what I like for pouring but not too hot.
I then pour lead from the larger pot into the smaller hand held electric pot.
I let the lead get to actual pouring temp…
This works great because you can keep the bulk lead at a lower temp until you need it and
When it’s time to pour you can pour faster and control each pour & temp.


As for exposure....
It's best to not expose yourself to lead. Best way is to quit using/fishing with lead.
or
You can work to minimize your exposure by taking precautions.

One way to look at it is if you do the same job all your life
and you do the same thing every day you will get something
in your system based on your environment and working conditions.
If you change jobs every five years you minimize your exposure by changing your working environment and conditions.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Happy pouring….

[k12580h]

Here's what I ended up with.

[Hunt'nFish]

Looks like some PERFECT jigs to me. Looks like Gami hooks too.
Nice job.

Someone asked what folks did w/ the dross they skim off the top. PLEASE DON'T THROW IT IN THE TRASH.
We have enough issues being raised because of lead, please don't help it to the landfill.
I save mine in a coffee can and use it to pack into hollow anchors which get welded shut.
OR, I remelt it up using candle wax as a flux and use it in cannonballs weights.
That ranbow colored dross is actually tin oxidzing because the temp is too high.
I try my best not to get the pot over temp, keeping it fluxed and pouring smooth.
Hunt'nFish

[ZRD]

Thanks for starting this original post. I just bought all the melting equipment and by your post, I just learned how to do it.

Has anyone heard about using bee's wax? A guy told me to add a little bit to the pot of lead, and said it helps??

[k12580h]

Heres my finshed jigs. What a blast fun stuff.

[Adrenaline Junkey]

Originally Posted by ZRD

Thanks for starting this original post. I just bought all the melting equipment and by your post, I just learned how to do it.

Has anyone heard about using bee's wax? A guy told me to add a little bit to the pot of lead, and said it helps??

I use paraffin wax or candle wax but be careful a little will make a big flame

Originally Posted by k12580h

Heres my finshed jigs. What a blast fun stuff.

Those look great good job

[k12580h]

And here are my finished trolling weights or inline sinkers whatever you wanna call them. Well I think I got enough gear now so I think I will be fishing tomorrow.

[native steelie]

those inline sinkers will work great for below your float n jig setup. the jigs almost look like u bought them from aero jigs! perfect jigs if you ask me.

[k12580h]

Thank you , I made them my self Im pretty happy with the way they turned out.

thanks for the thread and forgive my sidetrack but...I have an ancient smelting pot and don't even know if I can fill the tank again but I saw the post mentioning an electric pot?? like an old coffee pot or?

as for lead exposure, expert is a strange and varied term these days. I am trained in Haz-Mat from the feds and the advanced first responder training from the FD and lead is...bad. I used to say "no big deal" but wait 20 years. I lost a kidney and damn near my life to renal cell carcinoma from most likely industrial chemicals by way of physical exposure and inhalation (as per the doc that saved my tail) fresh air may help clear your head from a day in the fumes but trust me, the monster is very quiet and patient and will gladly wait in your body to make it's move. ventilate ventilate ventilate ( and a cheap respirator is way less expensive than being told you got an 8 percent chance of seeing next week..been there , done that now I wear a mask just to touch up the paint on a wheel barrel.

[marthagofish]

Originally Posted by cosmic cowboy

thanks for the thread and forgive my sidetrack but...I have an ancient smelting pot and don't even know if I can fill the tank again but I saw the post mentioning an electric pot?? like an old coffee pot or?

Look up Electric Melting Pots HOT POT 2 on the internet.

http://www.shopwiki.com/Lee+Melting+Pot+-+10

Small lead melting pot that melts lead using an induction coil.

right on, thank you. I was going to say "it's time to modernize" then I see I started this post with" right on"

what a drag it is getting old ha ha thanks again, never even thought about electric...

[Kerry Hansen]

I have used both electric and propane heated pots. With the electric it was most convient, but the problem I had was the small spicot (sp) always clogged up and the quanity was small. With the propane burner made for that purpose I use an old cast iron pot and ladle. It also allowed me to melt larger amounts as well as I didn't have to cut the lead into as small pieces as I did with the small electric pot to fit into the pot. Just my .02 worth.
Kerry

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by MattPark

In my humble opinion, the biggest danger with melting lead is moisture.

Short term definetly! I had some explode one time scarred a 6 inch section of my arm for about 5 years!

[marthagofish]

Originally Posted by Kerry Hansen

I have used both electric and propane heated pots. With the electric it was most convient, but the problem I had was the small spicot (sp) always clogged up and the quanity was small. With the propane burner made for that purpose I use an old cast iron pot and ladle. It also allowed me to melt larger amounts as well as I didn't have to cut the lead into as small pieces as I did with the small electric pot to fit into the pot. Just my .02 worth.
Kerry

Problem solved using the large pot to pre-melt the lead and the smaller pot for attaining final pouring temp and better manual control when pouring. Not perfect but it worked pretty good this past winter.

[TerryG]

If you are using a larger lead pot for a preheat and a electric furnace for your primary casting, pour your excess lead in a muffin tray to cast small ingots to be used at a later date in your electric furnace.

[Joseph G]

if you use lead with othr things in it it can make it harder then lead wich can and will make a tinking sound when it hits rocks where aslead makes a dull thud that will not travul as far scareing fish