North Santiam Broodstock is this an Option??

[FishBowl]

With all the broodstock programs going on in the states coastal rivers my ? is why can't we have the same thing on the North Santiam? It has a great run of some of the nicest native steelhead around and would be a snap to pick up some great specimen's for the program. What do you all think? Bill Sanderson are you out there? Let me know your opinion, since you have fished that river for quite some time and seem to hold it close to your heart, your opinion is one I would really respect on this topic. I don't mind catching and releasing these fine fish but it sure would be nice to enhance the run with a few keepers from this great fishery. Just a thought. Anybody willing to try and get this going?? I am game if it wouldn't hurt this exiting run. The river seems to have some great habitat for spawning, witness the great counts of winters the last few years.

Tim

[billsan]

Yes, this would be simple to accomplish because of the fish traps at both Stayton Island diversion dams and at Minto trap (and at Foster). We need to convince ODFW that the Santiams should have hatchery mitigation fish, and that the methods used to propogate those fish would not damage the alleged native winter steelhead and chinook. ODFW has the technology to raise native fish in a natural environment, and we have eager volunteers (with river property) who are eager to participate. Perhaps this can be discussed at the STEP conference in Tillamook on March 26, 27, and 28. If you want more info, please send me an e-mai. Because 70% of the best spawning beds in the Willamette Valley are covered over by Detroit Dam, necessary mitigation should be easy to establish. We are in good position because we already have volunteers and property owners. We do need help with input to ODFW and perhaps the legislature. Both chapters of Steelheaders in Albany and Salem could help, as well as other groups and private anglers. Incidentally, ODFW is already talking about re-establishing the winter steelhead hatchery program in the Willamette Valley. What we really need help with is the summer steelhead, politically.

[drift fishing fool]

if its not broke why fix it. i think since its a healthy run there is no good reason to do anyhthing that may interfere with it. there are summers in the river pretty much year round for those who want to keep a fish here and there. on top of that there are already enough critters fishing without any large numbers of hatchery fish, just think of how it would be with hatchery fish

[GOT2FISH]

I know nothing about Broodstock But I can tell ya I have never seen winters as big as they are this year. Since the last week of Dec I have caught three that were 20lbs or better. The last one being today at 12:00 in Bills Town WOW what a fight

[GOT2FISH]

[ 03-05-2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: GOT2FISH ]

[blackdog]

I'm not really familiar with the dams on the Santiams so excuse my ignorance, but are there no fish ladders at all at either Foster or Detroit? It seems the fish in the Clackamas system used to be able to get through the N. Fork Reservoir just fine, so I assume there are some major differences in these structures. :whazzup:

Driving over those passes and past the upper North and South Santiams, it seems a shame that all that beautiful water and spawning habitat is being wasted. :depressed:

[willierower]

The original plans called for Winter Steelhead plants on the Santiams to mitigate the loss of fish due to the dams. Either the feds or the stste didnt uphold thier part. They only raise and release summer steelhead which are out of basin stock.

I think a broodstock program would work great on both the North and the South Santiams. With the North being the best of the 2. Im all for it. I would even give my time to help with it.

[Vandal]

I have heard several folks ask the question about broodstock on the North Santiam. Grant Scheele mentioned something about this not too long ago...maybe this evening he can add some info. I for one would love to see this happen...and be willing to help as would several of the folks I fish with. It appears that it sould be a win-win situation for the fish and the fisherman.

I would like to know more info about what is being done by the folk involved with Detroit Dam to replace habitat and stocks lost by building the dam?

[GOT2FISH]

Help me here I'm confused ! Last July we went to the hatchery they ran the fish into a slot raised them with a basket like an elevator, gassed them with c02 to stun them, then slid them across a table, then down shoots to holding pens.They told us that they truck the Salmon up the North Fork and release them, Then they tag the Hatery fish and truck them down the river for recycle. I was so excited to see that many fish I forgot to ask what they did with the natives. Anyone know

[billsan]

The case can be made that the system is broken. Years ago, we had hatchery winter steelhead from North Santiam broodstock, and the hatchery program was discontinued. Now that all the hatchery fish can be marked, native broodstock can be used. The fish can be raised all their lives in North Santiam water so that imprinting is not adversely affected. Years ago, the summer steelhead were hatched from North Santiam stock that was obtained from Skamania stock after the adults returned to the Santiam. In the early years, they were raised in North Santiam water. Later, they raised the juveniles in South Santiam or Roaring River or Oak Springs water and acclimated them at Minto. Later still, they started using spawn from South Santiam adults taken at Foster on the South Santiam. Although native summer steelhead adults are available for spawn (at the diversion dams or Minto), out of basin spawn is used. The system is interfering with the 15 generations of steelhead that come up the North Santiam in the summer. Although steelhead have only been able to come up the system since 1910 (because of the fish ladder at Oregon City) the fish are naturally adapting and should, I think, be regarded as native. Steelhead that are raised in North Santiam water from native spawn will have a small stray rate and will aggressively defend their territory--as in strike. Most of the summers are presently removed at Minto in October. Natives are sometimes put above Minto Dam. Some adult Chinook are taken by truck above Detroit. That enriches the upper river, but decreases the natural spawning in the Packsaddle to Mehama section. It also creates juveniles above Detroit that must swim through the turbines in both Detroit and Big Cliff dams, which have very high mortality. There are no ladders at either Detroit or Big Cliff. It would be cheaper and better to have a good hatchery program that meets wild fish standards for the section from Packsaddle down to the Willamette, and that is only my opinion--but it's a good one. We have volunteers for both property and labor, and are keeping track of people who can help with the difficult job of convincing ODFW that it is the right thing to do.

[GOT2FISH]

Bill as always thanks for the input [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] I was woundering what do they do with the natives once they put them in the holding pens at the hatchery, are they trucked to a diffrent location or what

[SSPey]

Originally posted by billsan:
We need to convince ODFW .... that the methods used to propogate those fish would not damage the alleged native winter steelhead and chinook.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Fish are good fun, just keep in mind that Upper Willamette ESU winter steelhead are considered the most imperiled in Oregon. You'll need hard evidence that your plans won't hurt these fish in order to plead your case effectively. This is not a value judgement, its the law.

[BentMetal]

As for wild winter steelhead in the South, they do have a ladder that goes up the dam, but not over it. There, they trap the fish and sort them. I believe that the wild fish get transported upstream above the lake and released to spawn in different tributaries above which are all closed and stuff. In high school, we had the opportunity to volunteer on a project with ODFW, where logs were added to Moose Creek, a small tributary up around Cascadia. The guy came and talked about some 20 pairs of spawners they counted the next spring.

I may be sketchy on the details, but I think fish do spawn upriver.

[Amerman]

We are currently trying to get the ball rolling on this, I have been working with Grant Scheele and Trevor Smith to try and get something done over there. And we have been spending time talking to the ODFW about how to get this started. As others have said the biggest obstacle is that the upper Willamette basin winter steelhead are on the '' threatened endangered species list''. What we need is lots of public support and funding to get this going. The funding part is a piece of cake with (as Bill S. said) the NWS and so many other groups out there that love throwing there support to these worth while projects. We have talked to the odfw over there and showed them that fish gathering, raising and funding will not be issues so now we just need public support and a way to show that the impact of doing this will not be detrimental to the listed wild fish. We have showed them that we have got this done on many other rivers and now just need to show them the need to do it here also.

Scott