Child Support Payers

[Rakkasan]

I am just curious.....even though some of us have had some rough times and have gotten behind on our obligation or have lost a job and cannot pay. Whatever the reason. Is there anyone out there who has had to deal with our child support enforcement and think they have and are getting the shaft and that we as payers have no rights? Do you think some laws should be changed. I am going through this right now and am doing the right thing and beyond. I am still getting more money taken away.

[B-run]

I pay 980.00 a month for 2 boys.
One just moved in with me recently, and 500.00 will drop.
God help me if I ever lose my job.
Although day care actually cost me more than I was paying in support for him.
That will change when he starts school next year. But it is kinda a shaft.
I belive in taking care of my children, but I sure don't have alot left over at the end of the month to take them fishing.

[Hogback]

B-run said it all, child care cost more than his child support was. Taking care of children is expensive. I baby sit my grandchildren for my oldest daughter while I wait to continue school. If I didn't she could not afford to go to work. If she couldn't work my grandson could not go to a good school, wear decent clothes etc. Love your children and think of the things they would go without if you weren't doing your best for them. I always looked at it this way, I owe them they don't owe me. Being a good father to your children is the most important thing in your life. Just look at some of the children that don't have fathers and be thankful and proud that you do your job!
Randy

[1pump]

I pay for 2 boys as well. I've been fortunate enough to keep my support payments current. My ex needs the money to make the house payments, and I want my kids to have a safe, stable place to live, so that's all the incentive I need.
I got off cheap compared to some, so I don't gripe much.
The laws are rather skewed, though. If my ex wanted to stick it to me she probably could. Good thing she hates wasting money on attorneys as much as I do. She made it clear from the beginning that she will turn me over to the state if I get behind, and I don't want that. Hopefully I'll never have to deal with the enforcement people.

[TundraIII]

Got shafted for several years from CSD. When my first son was born I made arrangements with his mother to pay support. I was 25 at the time and making little money but I paid 250 bucks a month for the first year(this was 12 yrs ago). I didnt miss even one single payment and have receipts to prove it. She went ahead and turned me into CSD because she figured they could get her some more money. CSD made me repay the first year of child support even though I had receipts because legally I hadnt signed an agreement with her so they considered the payments a "gift". They then doubled my payments (I was making 10 bucks an hour, mind you) and life was screwed for awhile. I no longer have to make payments but I will never forget all the phone calls into CSD and never once getting a male voice on the other end. Always a woman case worker, funny how that works out.

[STGRule]

Not to incite, but I would like to point out something. Children "cost" $xx.xx a day/week/month. Whether that is 90% of your income or 10% of your income, they still "cost" the same amount. There isn't any way to "sliding-scale" the cost of raising a child. They need clothes, shelter, food, and medical/dental care at a minimum. Those costs don't change no matter how much you do or don't make. It was also pointed out that women most likely would answer the phone when calling. Perhaps no men are interested in the welfare of children and therefore can't be bothered to ensure their basic needs? I find that hard to believe but it might explain it. Finally, if you can't afford to support a child, keep your pants zipped. If want children, support them. If you think the Mother is being greedy, file for custody.

[Lund]

I filed for cutody 6 years ago and won. At the time I was paying 229.00$ a month. Now I have my son with majority cutody and am supposed to get 45$ a month. I've not seen a penny for three YEARS. She's about 1500$ behind. And CSD wont go after her until she's 2500$ behind. Then they will suspend her license to drive.

Now he's in better place in a private school that costs 450 a month and I am paying more money than if I had stayed with the original deal.

But one thing is for sure, no matter how much money it takes, it is worth it if my children turn out good.

[Rakkasan]

Tundra III,

My ex recieved a CD from my aunt of $43,000.00 The whole family was baffled on why. She had some mental problems as she deteriorated. At this time she changed her will. My father told her it was intended for the childrens school and wellfare. She spent it on a shack and two businesses she tried to start which have both failed. Does it count as income.....Yeah right!

STGrule,

Obviosly you have not been on the recieving end. You have a nice day.

Lund,

That is crap that you cannot collect. My ex still owes me quite a bit of money and I have not seen a cent of it. Can I run to the state and get help like she did with support even when I was was and am paying it? Nope...I have to pay 1600 dollars and I might get rewarded court costs.

The point of this post is not the matter of paying folks. By all means we should pay. It is the system that sungles out all men because there are those men and women who RUN and DO NOT pay even after being ordered. There are people as myself who have gotten behind because of unemployment or shortage of income and the wife get's mad because she is miserable in life so she runs to the state and they take $800.00 off the top every check and then 50% of $1000.00. On top of that I pay for the medical and dental insurance which leaves me with what? to pay for rent, gas, food, car, insurance, phone. Even the basic and I am still screwed.

Each person has a differant case, however good people get put way under and are doing the right thing yest get screwed over and have nothing to live on. On top of all of this the ex recieving is in contemp of court in three areas yet will the state do anything.....noooooo.....Bad mouthing a parent molding the mind of a young child to believe what there mother says because she is angry with the other parent. Let's use the children to hurt the other parent. Keep an open mind if you ahve negative things to say about people who get behind on support and get screwed.

[ 03-16-2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: DSRods ]

[ry]

Originally posted by STGRule:
Not to incite, but I would like to point out something. Children "cost" $xx.xx a day/week/month. Whether that is 90% of your income or 10% of your income, they still "cost" the same amount. There isn't any way to "sliding-scale" the cost of raising a child. They need clothes, shelter, food, and medical/dental care at a minimum. Those costs don't change no matter how much you do or don't make. It was also pointed out that women most likely would answer the phone when calling. Perhaps no men are interested in the welfare of children and therefore can't be bothered to ensure their basic needs? I find that hard to believe but it might explain it. Finally, if you can't afford to support a child, keep your pants zipped. If want children, support them. If you think the Mother is being greedy, file for custody.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Keep our pants zipped? why don't you keep you keep your legs closed. if a woman wants kids they can just spread for any man with a good job and sit back on easy street for 18 years. thats why a lot of these ho's have kids by several different guys.

[Straydog]

Originally posted by STGRule:
Not to incite, but I would like to point out something. Children "cost" $xx.xx a day/week/month. Whether that is 90% of your income or 10% of your income, they still "cost" the same amount. There isn't any way to "sliding-scale" the cost of raising a child. They need clothes, shelter, food, and medical/dental care at a minimum. Those costs don't change no matter how much you do or don't make. It was also pointed out that women most likely would answer the phone when calling. Perhaps no men are interested in the welfare of children and therefore can't be bothered to ensure their basic needs? I find that hard to believe but it might explain it. Finally, if you can't afford to support a child, keep your pants zipped. If want children, support them. If you think the Mother is being greedy, file for custody.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I have gladly raised two other men's kids. Men that have shown zero interest in the well being of the kids they fathered or the financial aspect of it all. I am still gladly paying for one to get through college.

If you don't want to pay child support don't make babies and get a divorce. Pretty simple, actually.

[Straydog]

ry,

Are they "ho's" when you are romancing and enticing them???? Perhaps you need to raise your personal standards if so.

It takes two to make babies. If you don't want to pay the toll, don't take that road.

[STGRule]

ry, Yep keep your pants zipped. And it doesn't say much for ya if you hang out with "ho's".

[Hoosier Daddy]

...woman ....can just ....sit back on easy street for 18 years[/QB]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Nice. Uh, I think see where you are going, but I think any parent would STRONGLY disagree with "sitting on easy street for 18 years"....

Classy post by the way.....


Sure, stuff happens, people grow up and mature and have to live with poor decisions they made when they were young. I can see that, and I think I'm fairly tolerant of those kinds of issues. But it really is as simple as keeping your pants zipped (regardless of gender). I am a child from a divorce. My Dad paid child support, and when he ended up paying more, he wasn't happy, but he did it. My Mom worked two jobs and got child support so she could raise me in a house in a decent neighborhood with a good school. I think most of the guys that have posted here are perfectly fine with paying to help raise their kids, as they should be.

[ 03-17-2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

[STGRule]

Tundra, I was replying in kind.

I no longer have to make payments but I will never forget all the phone calls into CSD and never once getting a male voice on the other end. Always a woman case worker, funny how that works out

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">My statement was as "ridiculous" as yours. And by your statements you must angry with women in general. Again, I replied in kind. Nothing in my statements had anything at all to say about how I felt that women didn't have half ownership. Any Mother has as much to lose or gain as any Father. And lest you think I don't have a "feel" for the problem, I have an ex-son-in-law who is thousands behind in child support. I also have a sister who is thousands behind in child support. Both of them are the problem, not the custodial parent. In fact, both my daughter and my ex-brother-in-law have gone out of their way to ensure that those kids have the other parent in their lives. They continue to get hosed and continue to do the right thing. I also have friends on all sides of this issue and some are good parents and some are not. Gender doesn't even appear to enter in to it. Only their commitment to the children they helped produce.

[ 03-17-2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[Pilar]

Well alrighty then ... STGrule :whazzup:

All I can say is that I 'Paid' for my poor decisions and it is behind me now. Whether you must pay support or not is a decision made by our society. Morally, you are required to raise your children or support someone else who is doing so. The issue I have is with the system. The child support enforcement bureaucracy is at best incompetent and at worse have done terrible wrongs. Not removing children from danger in bad homes, not making good decisions about where the kids should live and so on. It could even be argued that they enable the divorce and separation of married partners by guaranteeing an income to the woman who leaves with the kids.

They had more than enough warning and contact with the girls that Ward Weaver killed to know that the kids were in danger where they were living but did nothing about it. And there are many more instances where CSD does little more than collect money and distribute it.

They answer to no one and you have little or no recourse to address the wrongdoings. You are of course free to hire lawyers and go to court. The women involved have only to ask for welfare and food stamps and they get free legal aid from the state and the state goes to bat for them.

There are alot of folks who are determined to make the rest of us live by their moral standards. I don't recall asking anyone to tell me how I should live or deal with parenthood. The system was and is very biased in favor of women who get divorced. They get the kids and the check in the mail in almost every case. This is not tied to the right to be a part of the childs life or visitation access to the child by the Dad.

Some of us want to be a part of the childs life. Not all men are bad or irresponsible and yet the system makes this assumption on a daily basis.

I got custody of my daughter when she was 13. 'Mom' could not handle her growing up and no longer wanted to deal with her. My daughters choices were state custody in the other state or to come and live with me. She chose her Dad.

Between the ages of 2 and 13 I had only a few weeks a summer to spend with my daughter. 'Mom' made more regular visitation impossible by moving home to her Mom, some 3000 miles away. Any visitation I had was paid for by me .. airline tickets, long distance phone bills and so on. The state where my daughter lived decided to ignore the Oregon divorce decree and charge the going rate in the other state. I paid on time but got garnished anyway when the other state reported the difference between what the court in Oregon ordered me to pay and what the other state decided I should pay. This made a huge mess as this arrears built up over the years. At one point the difference was over $40,000. Even after I was awarded custody and spent alot of money on lawyers, court orders and moving my daughter here ... they (Oregon CSD) continued to garnish and give the money to 'Mom'.

After a year of fighting this with more lawyers, more $$$ and court proceedings I finally got the other state off my *** and had the mistake corrected. I still have not recovered all of the money that was mistakenly taken from me and sent to 'Mom'. I will never recover from not having the opportunity to be a Dad and help my daughter grow up for most of her childhood.

But I got to be a part of my daughters life for at least part of her childhood. And that is worth any price paid.

Can you understand how frustrating having to pay support and not having any other part to play in the childs life can be? Can you understand how this system is seen by most who have been hammered by it to be unfair and one sided?

Put on the size 10 workboots, walk a few miles and try to see from the 6 foot tall perspective, I dare you.

[WaterDog]

You can pay on time, you can do what's right, you can jump up and down till your blue in the face. If your the one that is paying support, your automatically the BAD guy/gal and they treat you like a criminal. Child Support Enforcement is the biggest piece of crap bureaucracy there is. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] Did you know that in some cases a change in support can be granted w/o the knowledge of the obligee until the arrears reach $2500? It’s a nice surprise. Try finding out why or what happened. Try getting a hold of a live person. It should not take a daily email spamming campaign [img]graemlins/program.gif[/img] (email sent to every supervisor of the division, the Department of Justice, and the Attorney Generals Office) just to get a someone to answer a few simple questions.

[STGRule]

Pilar, you are absolutley right. All I'm saying is it isn't just men who get hosed and it isn't just women who are custodial parents. You are correct, the courts aren't very just or helpful most of the time. And that goes for both genders. It has more to do with gender bias (yes, it does happen) of judges AND the fact that for every good parent (man or women) there are many lined up behind them that aren't. Now, back to the first thing I said. The "cost" of a child doesn't change whether the parents are married or divorced. How much you can afford doesn't change how much it costs. That's all.

[bllelk]

Guy's and Gals:

From my perspective where I see a lot of the problems caused by divorces on almost a daily basis, Tundra III's problem is a common one for both parents.
No matter how agreeable you are with your ex, you have no idea who is going to be influencing that persons decisions in the future.
Do not do anything by verbal agreement when it comes to support payments. If you owe child support, and want to stay out of trouble, pay it through the courts. If you want your ex and kids to live in a safe home, pay it through the courts because the custodial parent will need to prove he/she receives child support income to help qualify for a home loan.

[Rakkasan]

Waterdog,

As much reading as I have done I am an export :grin: What is your question?

I went to talk to an lawyer to see if he could help. He wanted a $1600.00 to get my support adjusted and to retrieve the money she owes me.

What a joke

I typed in Oregon Child Support and there it was. A reading I went and now I am my own Lawyer. In all seriousnes reading the laws is all you need. A lawyer can't really do much for you either.

As far as the money she owes me? Small claims court. $50.00 to file a hearing for contemp. Much better than even half of $1600

Wish I could run to the state and have them crush her bank account for free

Anyone interested in sitting on desks in Salem with me?

What a bunch of Horse ****

[hankstr]

I have the solution : AFTER BEING RAKED OVER THE COALS BY THE CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT GOOFBALLS FOR OVER 10 YEARS I HAVE SEEN IT ALL. THIS SYSTEM IS TOTALLY GEARED TOWARD THE FEMALE GENDER IN THE CASE AND I THINK THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO MAKE THE WOMEN HAVE TO GET VOUCHERS FOR FOOD,CLOTHING,TOILETRIES AND MEDICAL AND DENTAL AND THAT WAY WE CAN MAKE SURE OUR HARD EARNED MONEY IS GOING TO THE KID AND NOT TO MOMMA'S NEW CAR PAYMENT OR HOUSE PAYMENT!!!! THEY ALSO NEED TO DISALLOW THE MOM FROM IMPOVERISHING HERSELF JUST SO I HAVE TO PAY MORE SUPPORT. AND THEY SHOULD NOT ALLOW MAJOR DECISIONS CONCERNING THE CHILD TO BE MADE WITHOUT CONSENT FROM THE FATHER THAT'S MY SOAP BOX AND YES I AM YELLING THANK YOU [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[Rakkasan]

Hank,
No soap box there. You are 100% right. I have a hearing over the phone next Wednesday. It will probably be a man ***** .

[Fshklr]

My experience has been a roller coaster of pure idiocy.

17 years ago my payments were set. 1 yr later the state sent a letter saying that the amount was to be reduced do to a miscalculation in the #'s. For 3 yrs i paid diligently on time and in full..then I moved to Spokane and the poop hit the fan.
I get a letter from a new female case worker and am advised I am $3700.00 in arears.. :shocked: I went beserk and was told that the reduction calculation wasn't legal and now you owe $3700.00 in back support. Through a few moves for work and a couple career changes I have fought and fought to regain the 3700.00...nope! no dice...the newest thing is a charge for the last 3 yrs no one can track down or explain but is tacked on at the end of each yr and is an additional $895.00 on top of my monthly payments. I have been sent records etc and countless hrs on the phone and have yet to get answers or results as of yet..bottom line the system is flawed and in nov. my son turns 18.

He has lived with me numerous times for 3 to 6 months at a time and i continued to make the payments but cannot get credit for time in my home!!
It is a whacked system run by dimwited jerk offs!!! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[ 03-17-2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Fshklr ]

[Rakkasan]

ATTENTION! E-mail me if you are interested in taking steps to fix the issues we are all having. It will be a lot of work and frustrating, however no more frustrating than whay we have been through and are going through. I am willing to sit on a desk, however I need help. I am asking.

[Streetwalker]

I've paid religiously for 11 yrs now & have had my wages garnished by the state for the last 6 years. According to them, I was in arrears for not making a payment. I was looking at the cancelled check for that payment in my hand that had cleared on time as I was talking to the case worker on the phone who said I had not made the payment. I faxed & mailed a copy of this check & was told "we have no record of payment & will begin garnishing your wages, have a nice day" I consultd an attourney on it & was told once they start the only way you can stop it is to have the recipient request it. I could go on w/ other things but you all get the idea. Even the lawyer said the system is unfair to the men.

[love2fish]

Pilar, well said. I'd post my experience with CSD, but the board is going to shut down soon and I don't have time.

love2fish

[TundraIII]

StrayDog and STrgrule..I have looked at this thread up and down and I cant see where anyone who has paid or is paying child support is complaining that they have to pay it. The complaints are about the system and how men are treated in general. My buddy paid child support religiously for years until he got custody from the dead beat mother of his child. The mother works for the state and just moved into her custom built home last year. She pays 115 per month is 8 months behind and my buddy, he cant collect. You two always seem to take the "hollier than thou" approach to every arguable topic and boy does it get boring. There are tons of good guys out there that make their payments and love their kids regardless of how they came to be. I happen to be one of those guys.

Strgrule your reply suggesting men dont care about the welfare of children is ridiculous. Are you angry with men in general? I like how women never perceive themselves as half owner of these situations.

[crabbait]

Man! Excuse me while I go kiss my dog. He is an only child.

[judyfish99]

How about a woman paying Child Support? I do!!! The only bad thing is that the old man hasn't come through with my visitation. Anyone up there on the Kenai out there? My daughter is in Anchor Point, Alaska. Am doing all my own paperwork with a friend that is a paralegal. Cheaper than a Lawyer!!! The last Lawyer has $25,000 of mine and I am still paying him off. I have already filed papers with the judge that gave him custody and SHE is none too happy with him. So, there! Ya all got a woman in the Child Support boat with you!!! judyfish99

[Rakkasan]

Welcome to the world of the (I will refrain)

Update!..........I had my hearing today. I cannot believe what I heard.....lies lies lies and under oath even. I judge picked up on it really quick and was not pleased. I kept my cool and was calm the whole time after listening to her . By the sounds of the judge is going to take into consideration that she feels the need to lie about making minimum wage over the past 4 years and being unemployed. Then I pointed out to the judge under exibit #3 that she was registered under two businesses as part owner and registrant, owns a house, two vehicles, and was paying rent on a space fot he business. How can you afford to do this on minimum wage? hhhhmmmmmmm. I told the judge that she is more than capable of making more than minimum wage. I also pointed out that according to case law a judge has figured income on what the person is capable of making. The judge then asked her how much she made 4 years ago. Ouch on her part. Folks do your homework and back it up with solid proof and it will pay off. Next step is to appeal to the curcuit court and get her for lieing under oath in addition to lieing about back support, current support, denial of visitation, bad mouthing me to the children, money owed to me and the list goes on. The old saying goes....."if you play you pay"

Judy.....Rwad the laws of child support in your state and challenge them. Case law can make a differance. Courts frown on denial of visitation. They do not like it at all. In Oregon you get credit for visitation event though you are not seeing them do to the other parent.

[hankstr]

Welcome to the world of the (I will refrain)

Update!..........I had my hearing today. I cannot believe what I heard.....lies lies lies and under oath even. I judge picked up on it really quick and was not pleased. I kept my cool and was calm the whole time after listening to her . By the sounds of the judge is going to take into consideration that she feels the need to lie about making minimum wage over the past 4 years and being unemployed. Then I pointed out to the judge under exibit #3 that she was registered under two businesses as part owner and registrant, owns a house, two vehicles, and was paying rent on a space fot he business. How can you afford to do this on minimum wage? hhhhmmmmmmm. I told the judge that she is more than capable of making more than minimum wage. I also pointed out that according to case law a judge has figured income on what the person is capable of making. The judge then asked her how much she made 4 years ago. Ouch on her part. Folks do your homework and back it up with solid proof and it will pay off. Next step is to appeal to the curcuit court and get her for lieing under oath in addition to lieing about back support, current support, denial of visitation, bad mouthing me to the children, money owed to me and the list goes on. The old saying goes....."if you play you pay"

Judy.....Rwad the laws of child support in your state and challenge them. Case law can make a differance. Courts frown on denial of visitation. They do not like it at all. In Oregon you get credit for visitation event though you are not seeing them do to the other parent.


<font color="blue">

thats exactly what i said on my last post about women impoverishing themselves to make us guys have to pay more so glad to hear the judge wasnt buying it DS chock one up fo rthe underdogs hankstr </font>

[judyfish99]

Well, the old man is not really impoverished(sic?) He works on those oil derricks in the Cook inlet and from what my daughter accidently said, He also drives a Cadillac Escalade. Geez, even when I was getting support from him, I was driving a used car. Still have it. I was getting less from him than I am paying today. The support That I was getting from him covered 2/3 of the daycare. He knew I was going to adjust it through the state, Thats when he went for custody. I am about ready to do another adjustment again. Oh, yeah, His x-wife (3rd one) moved to Alaska to be up there to replace me as a mother and works for the State of Alaska. All I have to do is file for the right to serve him by mail. judyfish99

[judyfish99]

By the way, it is not the money issue, It is that I really miss my daughter and it is wrong to deny Visitation. The punishment for denial of visits is jail, fines or suspension of child support or a combination of some or all. The most drastic is reversal of custody . My paralegal friend knows the laws inside and out. Hang in there, the kids need <font color="red">both parents. </font> . judyfish99

[Rakkasan]

I finally got the new order from the hearing. I will be $330.00 richer each month. In addition too, I get to skip a few months of support payments. The judge ruled that I have over paid. They also determined that her claiming minimum wage was unexeptable and they put her monthly income down for what she is capable of making (what she was making 4 years ago) All that time, studying the system, preparing my defense and being honest paid off. What a pain in the you know what. If you are, or will be going through this, read the Oregon Child Support page and the laws. It is a pain but it really does not take hundreds of dollars to hire a lawyer.

I will say it again. I have no problems paying. I do have problems with someone who lies and messes up good peoles lives.

[STGRule]

DSR, Good for you! I'm glad it worked for you and am sorry it had to be so hard. Really, good parents shouldn't be the losers in this. And for sure not the kids.