Downriggers?

[sonofacamel]

I have decided to purchase a pair of downriggers for my boat as my sons and I would like to get into mackinaw fishing at Odell and Crescent this coming spring. Anyone got any advice for what downriggers to consider? I was looking at the Walker mini laker through cabelas. What else would I need to get setup for doing this. Sorry, but I am a downrigger virgin.

[Jedcraft]

There's been alot of downrigger posts lately so you should be able to search the archives and find a bunch of info. 50' or less you can get away with manuals but even that'll get old real quick if your into a hot bite. If you don't get electric you'll wish you woulda.
I have a couple Scottys and they work fine.

[honker1]

I have to agree with Jedcraft. Do a search on downriggers and then ask specify questions about downriggers. We were all novice on the subject at one time or another. My 1st downrigger, I rolled the dice, and bucks, and got the Scotty electric. Glad I did, as pulling up a 10 lb weight at 100 feet would get old in a hurry. Now I just push a button, and the downrigger takes care of itself, and I can work the fish.
Also you can run 2 lines off one downrigger. So you might consider, purchasing 1 electric downrigger now, instead of 2 manual downriggers. You should also purchase the 1st one new, as you wouldn't want to get someone else piece of junk discard. My

[chartreuse moose]

There are a number of brands on the market, here is a list if it will help you
out. There is also Stainless steel line and copper line rods that can get you down to 125' for a fraction of the cost. I use the above in adjacent with my down riggers. You will find many times your down rigger line will never be touched. But your Stainless steel line with a diver or copper line will be catching all the fish.

Cannon
Scotty
Big Jon
Cissco
Walker
Invader
penn electric downriggers

[Doc_Rhen]

I started with a Scotty manual and a Cannon mini-toll manual. Both work well and got me to realize that an electric is much better. When I got on dad's boat last spring I could only improvise a mount for the Cannon mini-troll. I was running that out to the last couple wraps of cable (About 100') with a 6# ball. It worked, we caught 9 Bull trout off it but my shoulder explained the benefits of the electric the next morning. There may be a thought to getting a manual to see if you are really into downrigger fishing but I would guess that in 6 months you will wonder how you fished without them. I should be getting a package in the mail shortly with 2 NIB Cannon Digi-troll IV HS riggers that I found on E-Bay and managed to get them for $850 each. There were several reasons that I started with manual but if your Boat situation is set, go with electric.

[Vance Staplin]

In no way intending to sound big headed or egotistical.

Every time this question comes up it becomes a Ford/Chevy topic. Notice I said Ford/Chevy and stopped at two?? I personally believe there is a third company when it comes to manual downriggers.

I have used downriggers for over 30 years now. We started with Penn manual downriggers which still are basically the exact same product today and a good unit. I love Penn's large depth gauge.

Then I moved to Penn Electrics and Cannon Digitrol IV. Then back to Scotty model 1106 Electrics for which I still use four of today. I bought and tested the top of the line Walker Electric with all the retriever features for a few days on Flaming Gorge a few years ago.

I totally agree with the comment that you can get by with manual downriggers while fishing 50 feet or less. I used to guide with 4 Penn manual downriggers...But I was in my late 20's then! If you do decide on Manual downriggers I would strongly consider the Scotty units that come up two feet per crank. This is a huge benefit.

If you are targeting Machinaw I highly recommend an Electric with a fast retrieve because you will be working close to the bottom where you will suddenly come into edges and ledges. That is where a fast speed is most necessary.

If you are considering a Manual one foot per crank unit I would recommend Scotty, Penn and Cannon. But, the two foot per crank Scotty is the only way to go. I ran one as a fifth downrigger while guiding for Kokanee and they are terrific units.

If you decide to step up to Electric downriggers, I highly recommend Scotty or Cannon. Scotty has a the better warranty of the two.

My .02 cents

Vance Staplin

[HiTide]

Originally Posted by Vance Staplin

In no way intending to sound big headed or egotistical.

Every time this question comes up it becomes a Ford/Chevy topic. Notice I said Ford/Chevy and stopped at two?? I personally believe there is a third company when it comes to manual downriggers.

I have used downriggers for over 30 years now. We started with Penn manual downriggers which still are basically the exact same product today and a good unit. I love Penn's large depth gauge.

Then I moved to Penn Electrics and Cannon Digitrol IV. Then back to Scotty model 1106 Electrics for which I still use four of today. I bought and tested the top of the line Walker Electric with all the retriever features for a few days on Flaming Gorge a few years ago.

I totally agree with the comment that you can get by with manual downriggers while fishing 50 feet or less. I used to guide with 4 Penn manual downriggers...But I was in my late 20's then! If you do decide on Manual downriggers I would strongly consider the Scotty units that come up two feet per crank. This is a huge benefit.

If you are targeting Machinaw I highly recommend an Electric with a fast retrieve because you will be working close to the bottom where you will suddenly come into edges and ledges. That is where a fast speed is most necessary.

If you are considering a Manual one foot per crank unit I would recommend Scotty, Penn and Cannon. But, the two foot per crank Scotty is the only way to go. I ran one as a fifth downrigger while guiding for Kokanee and they are terrific units.

If you decide to step up to Electric downriggers, I highly recommend Scotty or Cannon. Scotty has a the better warranty of the two.

My .02 cents

Vance Staplin

Now, maybe you have an info overload, but here's more:
You may have gotten the hints about electrics. Buy them first because you will go to them sooner or later. Unless you have a little pram. Then you've skipped the steps of finding out you really wanted the electrics and then having to sell the manuals.
I have used downriggers as long as Vance (Vance are you really that old?) and always used Scottys. Fished other models on others boats & I would only have Scottys.
Personally, I would avoid copper or wire line trolling. Have done that for macks at Tahoe & that gear is pretty heavy & unwieldy, esp. for kokanee. And, most folks I know get plenty on downriggers.
Finally, consider whether to get wire cable or braided line on your d.r. If you're going with the "black box" (a whole 'nuther subject) you will need the wire. Otherwise, you might consider the braided. It will have less blowback, less corrosion, no negative electric voltage, no kinking, requires less weight, and much easier to attach clips for weights.
Shorten your learning curve by going out with those who are experienced with downrigger fishing.
You might also contact Vance re d.r. fishing rods with the "Roberts Wrap".
Good luck.

[chartreuse moose]

Vance Staplin

You failed to mention Big Jon's the number one selling down rigger on the great lakes. I do agree with the chev/Ford theory . then you have these other top end down riggers by Cissco and Invader, which are regarded as some of the best by a number of Captains on the Great Lakes.

One thing I have found in this war of down riggers , is people who are on the Pro-staff of those companies tend to lean in that direction and not give a fair
assessment of the whole picture. Myself being on the pro-staff of 5 different
companies only talk about methods of delivery. If asked I will then tell others
what brands.

[Vance Staplin]

Originally Posted by chartreuse moose

Vance Staplin

You failed to mention Big Jon's the number one selling down rigger on the great lakes. I do agree with the chev/Ford theory . then you have these other top end down riggers by Cissco and Invader, which are regarded as some of the best by a number of Captains on the Great Lakes.

One thing I have found in this war of down riggers , is people who are on the Pro-staff of those companies tend to lean in that direction and not give a fair
assessment of the whole picture. Myself being on the pro-staff of 5 different
companies only talk about methods of delivery. If asked I will then tell others
what brands.

Hi Chartreuse Moose and guys and ladies watching this thread,

When I posted on this thread I'm only giving my opinion based on my
experience and history in the industry. It is only my opinion and if you ask my wife I'm wrong a lot!

I totally agree that the Great Lakes has/was been on the forefront of downrigger fishing. In fact, our first pair of Penn Manual downriggers came from a Michigan catalog because you couldn't find them out west back in the mid-seventies.

When I posted on this thread I listed every brand of downrigger I have owned and gave my honest opinion without bashing a brand. If you notice I mentioned that I owned and tested a Walker, but when I mention which downriggers I highly recommend purchasing... I left it at two being Scotty and Cannon on electric models and included Penn on the manual models. I did this for several reasons.

I admit I have not owned Big John Downriggers but a friend of mine used Big John downriggers while guiding on the same lake I guided on. Although, I only fished them one time they seemed to operate fine. The problem he had was every time he needed a part he had to order it from back east.

When comparing downriggers in a catalog or online it is easy to miss features from one brand to another. For one example....Some of the downrigger brands you listed don't have an automatic shut off when the ball reaches the surface!!?? They do on their upper end models but not on their lower end units and you have to pay extra for it. This is a huge feature, Cannon and Scotty both have this on all of their electrics. For those of you that intend to stack two rods on one electric downrigger, I highly recommend a Scotty. The reason is that you can add additional shut off stops for each rod you add. This is huge because you don't have to watch and manually stop the downrigger to retrieve your top release. Without this feature it is easy to let the downrigger knock off your release or bind/tangle up in the pulley.

Lifetime Warranty's with local repair centers are a huge benefit with downriggers because parts can become expensive and broken downriggers are expensive to ship not to mention turn around time. I don't know if Big John has a service center on the west coast but as of a year or so ago Walker didn't. This is another reason why I recommended Scotty and Cannon. I'm not sure of Big Johns warranty (I couldn't find it listed) but they do have a long list of parts that can be purchased (such as a motor for $125.00) on their website.

Scotty and Cannon both have lifetime warranty's. I have not personally dealt with Cannon on a warranty issue. But with Scotty, you don't need to buy parts. They are covered under warranty....Including the motor...

Penn Electric downriggers. They have been on again and off again on production for the last 20 years. I had 3 of them but did not mention them because unless something has changed recently, they are not being manufactured or sold. As far as I know, new Penn downriggers are only available manual models.

You mentioned Pro Staff in a way that appeared that you fear this could affect my opinion. I was once on Scotty's Pro Staff but Scotty stopped their Pro Staff program (guessing) 5 or 6 years ago which included me.
I was offered support from a Cannon representative a few years back (after Scotty stopped their program) but declined the offer because I had four perfectly good working Scotty's and didn't see any reason to change.

While I was on Scotty's Pro Staff I came across literally hundreds of happy customers coming up to me bragging about Scotty's and their performance. Some of these folks found examples of Scotty's very lenient lifetime warranty policy. I found through their experiences that if there is any question that a Scotty downrigger failed because of material and workmanship they fix it for... free... Period... No matter how old the unit is or how much it has been used.

Cannon before they were recently purchased by Johnson claimed a lifetime warranty but didn't cover some parts including some motors, switches and circuit boards. One of the boards not covered under the warranty for a Digitroll IV cost hundreds of dollars. From what I have been told this has changed now and they completly stand behind their warranty.

I'm certain that all of the downriggers you listed work great but these reasons are why I recommended Scotty or Cannon to anglers out here on the west coast.

My .02 cents,

Vance Staplin

[chartreuse moose]

Mr. Staplin
I agree with you on warranty work, Walkers and Scotty are both Canada companies . Scotty has done a fine job with repair shops through out the usa and Canada, while Walker has remained across the border. .. Not sure your statement about all Cannon elect stop at surface. I think it is just the hight end DW such as the Mag 10 ,20 & digital trolls, I have been knowen to be wrong before.
Big Jon's is in the process of setting up repair shops on the west coast. When they complete that task I could not say.

All I was trying to bring to the picture is all the down rigger companies in North America, I am sure there are a couple I have left out. Main reason anglers buy a certain brand of down riggers is because of a friend or the first one they ever used. Some how it be comes the top brand on their boat.

The other reason is to show there is more and cheaper methods of delivery
for depth than just down riggers to 125' . Like I stated prior , I catch more fish off Steel Line and copper line than I do off my Downriggers , with all applications being run at the same time. Now that Oregon is stepping up to a two rod licence anglers will be looking at ways to deliver the most effective way possible. So to acheive the optimal spread a angler can get with these other tools.

[HiTide]

Originally Posted by chartreuse moose

Mr. Staplin
I agree with you on warranty work, Walkers and Scotty are both Canada companies . Scotty has done a fine job with repair shops through out the usa and Canada, while Walker has remained across the border. .. Not sure your statement about all Cannon elect stop at surface. I think it is just the hight end DW such as the Mag 10 ,20 & digital trolls, I have been knowen to be wrong before.
Big Jon's is in the process of setting up repair shops on the west coast. When they complete that task I could not say.

All I was trying to bring to the picture is all the down rigger companies in North America, I am sure there are a couple I have left out. Main reason anglers buy a certain brand of down riggers is because of a friend or the first one they ever used. Some how it be comes the top brand on their boat.

The other reason is to show there is more and cheaper methods of delivery
for depth than just down riggers to 125' . Like I stated prior , I catch more fish off Steel Line and copper line than I do off my Downriggers , with all applications being run at the same time. Now that Oregon is stepping up to a two rod licence anglers will be looking at ways to deliver the most effective way possible. So to acheive the optimal spread a angler can get with these other tools.

I would like to know why steel or copper lines would work better than downriggers. I have fished for yrs with dr's and usually do well. As I stated previously, my limited experience with copper/steel line was such that I can't imagine using it for fish the size of trout & kokanee. Also, with a dr you have precise depth placement. How do you achieve that with metal line?
Re the brands, if you fish beyond this forum (freshwater) and also venture to saltwater then Scotty should be considered. They have made W. coast saltwater fishing a huge part of their business & are well regarded in the NW. Even if you don't fish the salt, corrosion happens. In that regard, you can't beat Scotty.

[Vance Staplin]

HiTide,

You have brought up a very good subject with using the new braided lines in place of steel cable. The points you made are very solid and I use braid also.

But, it is very important to note that you cannot use braided line in place of cable on most Cannon electric downriggers because Cannon runs voltage down their cable to operate their shut of process.


Vance Staplin

[chartreuse moose]

HiTide

Many of us old timers have been on the water more than once, when no matter what you did you could not get a bite on a down rigger.

With the copper and Stainless Steel lines many a day will get all the fish.
They both are away from the boat and can reach depths of up to 125'

Now what makes the fish hit those lines and not the Down Rigger I could not tell you. Last Oct 2009 while on Odell with a few friends and some from right here on this board, it was a tough bite. After 6 hrs with out a bump, I brought up one down rigger and set out the copper rod for two Mackinaw/ Lakers that pushed 18 & 19 lbs with in 30 minutes of each other , while the remaining down rigger was never touched.

Many days on Shasta going after Land Locked Kings, the down riggers are never touched but the Copper and Stainless steel rods catch all the fish.
Many of my friends think I am the luckiest guy. But in truth it is not luck, it is using other tools to get the job done. I now can not remember the last time I was skunked because of these approaches I now use. I enjoy helping others catch fish, so they can enjoy what I enjoy. Here are the tackle companies I am on the pro-staff for, you will notice not one is a west coast company. You don't get here by B.S people. Not one time will I tell anyone pull this lure over another , I do not push even my own sponsors tackle unless asked. Even then it will not be on any open form.

Bert's Custom Tackle
Suick Lure Co
Sigg's Riggs
Silver Streak Spoons
Legendary products

[grayfish]

Hey Stan, Im confused what do you mean when you say you use copper and stainless is that on the downrigger?
Thanks David

[grayfish]

Never mind stan I read your post on a differant tread and I figured it out thanks for all the info though
David

[Kokonuts]

Moose, Vance, All------Thanks for all the Info!

What are your thoughts on the Elect. charge that the wire gives off? I know that the Cannon Models have some kind of "Black Box" to regulate it!

Kokonuts

[Vance Staplin]

Originally Posted by Kokonuts

Moose, Vance, All------Thanks for all the Info!

What are your thoughts on the Elect. charge that the wire gives off? I know that the Cannon Models have some kind of "Black Box" to regulate it!

Kokonuts

This is a whole new catagory of conversation. The best place I know to explain things is on the Pro Troll website. I belive it is protroll.com or google it.

Personally, I used a black box for years and couldn't see a difference in catch ratio's. But I have freinds that are very good fishermen that wouldn't leave home without one.

Down here in California, the black box fad has pretty much gone away in freshwater and you can't fish for Salmon in the Salt anymore.

Vance

[chartreuse moose]

Kokonuts

Your going to get some people mad at me. This in my opinion is like the Scent
decisions that will never end. If your boat is grounded properly and your equipment is in proper working condition you should not have any problems.

I myself have never owned one. I still put plenty of fish in my boat like Kings, Coho, Rainbow,Bass Lakers/MacKinaw ,Brown Trout and Kokanee. I run two Cannon Down riggers, Hummingbird fish finder an a Depth Raider that all draw current.

The fishing industry is like the cosmetic industry to woman, which will take a 2 and make her a 10.

[HiTide]

On the wire line rod/reel set-up my questions remain: How heavy is this stuff you use? Too heavy for trout/kokes? How big a reel does it require? And, finally, how do you get to the depth you want? I'm not knocking this, just want to understand how it would work for anything smaller than macks.

[chartreuse moose]

HiTide

The steel line and diver would be way to heavy for Kokanee under 1 1/2 lbs.
You have to run a line counter reel, I and many run Daiwa 47 lC . There is a chart that comes with each diver, so much line out at this speed will get you at this depth. There is also a book called Precision Trolling by written Mark Romanack that will get you on the depth. It is aboard my boat on every trip.

Copper line would be the same, now I have landed many Bass off copper that are in deep water, not counting endless Rainbow trout from 10" to 3 lbs off it. Most of us run a Penn 340

For Kokanee I will run a slide diver lite bite, now this you can run on any rod that has 30 lb braid main line and leader of your choice. I have pulled up many a Kokanee out of Whiskey Town lake on Slide Diver Lite Bite. It will trip on 6" fish and reach depths of 90'

[Doc_Rhen]

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if any other DR's besides the Digi-troll is capable of keeping the ball off the bottom automatically? I say this after beating the crap out of my balls a couple times last year on LBC when I found a rock outcropping that jumped 30-40 feet and I was looking at the rod instead of the Fish finder (that really is a pain with a manual).

[sherman51]

in my opinion all the top brands are good riggers cannon big jon walker scotty penn and maby a few more. the new walkers with the auto ball retriever and the new motor that will bring up a 10 lb weight at 200 ft per min is an awesome rig oh yea it also has auto stop. but they are pricey$$$$$. i think the cannon,s are alittle pricey. hey now that i think about it their all alittle pricey. if you want manual the penn is a great reel never used their electric. i,ve been useing manual riggers for 30 years. always fished shallow and i was young most of those years. last year i got a great buy on 2 big jon spertsman electric on ebay. this year i was on ebay.com again. well there was two major sellers fighting alittle bit. so i ended up getting 2 big jon pro tournaments with auto stop for 510.00 without the rod holders. i then got a set of used double rod holders with new plates for 125.00. so thats 635.00 for the set. cheap. sometimes ebay.com has some great deals on new and good used ones. and ebay gives you a warrenty that most stuff has to be good. or you can get your money back. i,ve used it for 20 yrs never got burned. if your really running low on money the lite bite slide diver might be a good answer. but i would rather have a good set of any top brand used electric than any manual.
have a great season. and good luck on your riggers. just my 2 cents.
....sherman....

[chartreuse moose]

Doc_Rhen

The biggest problem I find with my Cannons is, I think there design is more for flat bottom lakes or water ways with out a drastic change. Way to many times I have been fishing Shasta and the up and downs can be a royal pain.

I have pulled mine off and replaced them with the Big Jon brutes, They will pull up a 25LB weight at 240' a minute.

I think what has happened is Cannon and Scotty have had the West Coast market for years. The East coast has been Cannon and Big Jon, Now Scotty is working East and Big Jon is working west.

[Cannon]

Originally Posted by sherman51

if your really running low on money the lite bite slide diver might be a good answer. but i would rather have a good set of any top brand used electric than any manual.
have a great season. and good luck on your riggers. just my 2 cents.
....sherman....

Very good advice! My only comment would be that once you go electric you will never go back to manuals. Whether you buy used or new buy electric whether you have a large or small boat. Buy the best you can afford! Plus...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc_Rhen]

Originally Posted by chartreuse moose

Doc_Rhen

The biggest problem I find with my Cannons is, I think there design is more for flat bottom lakes or water ways with out a drastic change. Way to many times I have been fishing Shasta and the up and downs can be a royal pain.

I have pulled mine off and replaced them with the Big Jon brutes, They will pull up a 25LB weight at 240' a minute.

I think what has happened is Cannon and Scotty have had the West Coast market for years. The East coast has been Cannon and Big Jon, Now Scotty is working East and Big Jon is working west.

Looks like this thread was pulled from the depths, my last comment was from before I had my Digi-trolls. I guess I am not fully understanding your comment about Cannons being for flat bottom lakes Stan. I am guessing your Cannons were from before the high speed motors. If I am not mistaken the current Cannon Electrics (like mine) retrieve at 250' per minute and with the bottom tracking function I have not bounced the bottom (unintentionally) since installing them. The only time I have had a little issue with them is when they decide a dense ball of kokanee is the bottom and start retrieving to attempt to miss the "bottom", but that can also be kind of nice on days like today when the fish seem to like the jigging action of the rigger reeling up to miss them and then dropping back on the other side of them, every time my rigger did that I could count to 2 and grab the rod with a fish on.

[sherman51]

i really dont think i could add much to this thread. i think about all the new models of each of the brands listed are good riggers. i have big jon pro tournaments with auto stop. and i think you can add the auto stop to any of the newer models. but i cant knock any of the other brands. i like walkers because you can put the auto retrieval on them that brings the ball right to the boat. cannon and scotty are both top of the line. the only reason i have the big jons is i got 2 of them on an ebay auction for 510.00. and i already had 2 big jons. some of us are on a budjet here. so in this case price was everything. i think i still got good riggers at a price i could live with. i couldnt touch 2 of the other brands for that price. but then i only fish the central basin of lake erie. and its as flat as my back yard.LOL. so i dont worry about bottom. i fish 50 to 60 ft deep. i use 6 lite bite slide divers and 4 downriggers. the divers with braid line gets me down where i want to go. the diver trips you dont even know its on there when fighting a fish. i guess the wire line has its place but i,ll take a diver and braid anytime. my best advice is if you can swing the money for any electric, its still better than a manual. thats my 2 pennies worth. have a great season.
....sherman....