There's a thief among us..........

[tailchaser]

Well recently I was selling my bow on ifish and got quite a few reply's. Well I finally got one guy from Texas actually to send a certified check for the bow. Since I wasn't sure of the amount for shipping he sent it over (considerably) giving me the opportunity to take whatever was needed for shipping and handling + the price of the bow and get the rest back to him. It was an authentic US Bank Certified check and passed my credit union just fine. So I went to send the items but had problems with his address (luckily) however I had resent the amount due to him. The bow was never sent. Now the catch. He never got back to me and now I'm out the amount he sent because the check was a fraud. Since I already sent the money order and it's been cashed the bank decided to take the money from my account. Not sure they can do that legally, but it's quite a scam. I didn't think to wait since it was a certified check, but I was wrong and now have a very ticked off wife. Anyhow, hopefully everyone will read this and get a heads up that people are doing this even on ifish.

tc

[ZaQ]

Dang............... [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[tag-a-long]

That really bites. Just goes to show you that they are everywhere.... Sorry for your loss. Thanks for the heads up!

[hookumhi]

never underestimate the determination of scum .

[Airborne]

they just did a special report on channel 12 about a month ago, seems people were doing this on used car purchase, never take a certified check, I always try to get them to pay via Pay-Pal

[CATCH AND EAT]

Did you turn the person in to the moderators if he was an ifish member so that this hopefully does not happen to any more of us?.

[rwgav8]

First of all, have you tried to contact the individual and if so have you contacted the authoriteis, localy and in TX? You might also want to file a complaint with the FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center at http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp . Did he give you a P.O. Box or a street address.

[Chrome Bumper]

Dang :depressed: . One good reason to deal with people ya know. Still got the bow?? I'm thinkin' about going out during bow season for elk this year, since I don't have any peference points. Do have a freezer full of elk though :smile: I think all my twenties are good.

[ 03-11-2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Chrome Bumper ]

[WaterDog]

Guys,

Since this is more of a discussion thread I'm going to move it the LiG. I will post a link to it on the "Internet Safety" thread that is pinned at the top of the classified pages.

Thanks

[skein]

Okay, I'm gullible. I, too, would think a certified check would be okay. I suppose it would be the same situation with a cashier's check.

It's like getting paid with counterfeit twenties.

Thanks for the heads-up and sorry about your getting scammed.

Skein

[Sky-Guy]

All, I have been vicitimzed by this scam, and want to share my story with you in the hopes that none of you ever get hit by these scumbag criminals.
This is a classic cashiers check scam, mostly ran by Nigerian Nationals within the US.

I sell Custom pool cues that range from $400.00 to $5000.00 a piece. Last year I was approached through an ad I had on a Billiard Forum (http://www.AZbilliards.com)I frequent from a perspective cue collector who wanted to buy $4500.00 in cues, for three cues. Nothing new to me, I sell cues for $1500.00 or more every month.

The deal turned strange when I learned that he wanted to pay with a cashiers check for close to three times the amount of the sale, then wire him the remaining funds. He stated that the check would come from his "shipper" here in the US who owed him the money. I of course was cautious about the deal and said to myself that if I get the check and the money is good, meaning the check clears through the bank and posts to my account, wht noy?

Well I received the check later that week and deposited it to my account at BOA. I asked the teller when I would be completely free of risk by depositing this BOA-drafted cashiers check into my BOA account. She stated that if the check clears tonight, you are home free. WRONG!

I waited for three days and the funds were still in my account. I went ahead and wired him the balance of close to 8K as part of our deal. When I went to the bank 5 days later to withdraw funds from that account to cover shipping costs, my acount was negative 8K from what I had withdrawn. Apparently the cashiers check had made it's way down to the San Francisco branch where it was "Drafted" and they called it a fraud. Consequently, my local branch immeadiately withdrew the funds from my account. I had been had.

Well, rather than go into more detail, long story short, BOA ultimately gave me the money back because I calimed their tellers had misled me as to when I would no longer be at risk for this transaction. I only lost about 300.00 for the whole affair.... but thousands of people get nailed by these scammers every day around the country. Here's the proof-

Check out this website:
http://www.scamvictimsunited.com


Bottom line is you have to escalate to your bank's senior management about the fraud. They are aware of this problem, and choose not to do anything about it.
There is a law called the Midnight law, and it states that if the bank found out that a fraudulent check was posted to your account, they have until midnight of that business day to contact you and notify you of the situation. Do a Google on this law, read about it on the website I provided to you.... learn all about it, and see if it applies to your situation. If it does, tell the bank you think they broke the law and if they dont return the funds to your account, They will be hearing from your lawyer about them breaking this law.

Good Luck!

edited for speling :smile:

[ 03-11-2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Sky-Guy ]

[OregonSportsman]

Hey everyone Airborne is right. People have been doing this scam with used cars because with used cars you are usually dealing with a lot of money. However it can be done with any item sold over the internet. I have recently been selling a bunch of car parts over ebay and the thepartstrader, and I have had this scam tried on me a couple of times. Luckily I never fell for it. Here's how it works....

Say person A is selling an item, whatever it may be, over the internet. Person B the purchaser will contact the seller, person A, and tell him he wants to purchase the item and usually person B, the purchaser, is from a different country. In my case it was West Africa. Anyway person B will tell the seller person A that he is from out the area and then comes into picture person C. Person C is suppose to owe person B money so person A will recieve a money oreder from person C for what he owes person B. Are you guys still with me? The money order is for way over what person B is suppose to pay person A so after person A cashes the money order he will send the rest of the money that is left over along to person B. Person B will tell you he has his own method of shipping and you dont have to worry about it.

Here is an example to help you undestand...
Mike is selling a bow for $400. Bob contacts Mike and tells him that he is from "another country" and wants to purchase his bow. After setting everything up Bob tells Mike that this guy Ryan owes him $2000. So Ryan will send Mike a money order for $2000. Mike is then suppose to cash the money order and take the $400 for the bow he is selling. Bob will also tell Mike not to worry about shipping because he has it taken care of. After Mike cashes the money order and has taken the $400 he owed he is then suppose to transfer the remaining $1600 to Mike. Everything sounds good right? This is where the scam comes in. The money order only takes about 3 days to go through and the bank will say its all good. So Mike sends the $1600 to Bob and waits for the bow to be picked up. After a couple of weeks Mike hasn't heard anything from Bob and doesn't know if anyone is still coming for the bow. At the same time the bank finds out that the money order was a freud and contacts Mike. Mike still has his bow but is out the $1600 he transfered to Bob. The third party, Ryan, isn't even a real person. It was Bob who sent the fake money order and it's Bob who then has ripped off Mike of $1600. I hope you can understand this, and I hope it gives you a head up. Have a good day everyone!

[West Linn Wader]

Tailchaser,

Thanks for sharing this experience. So was the cashier's check counterfeit or was it a real check but purchased with bad funds. I ask this because someone tried to pay me for an item via PayPal. The funds showed up in my PayPal acct so I felt comfortable sending them their item. Luckily I waited a day longer and was notified via PayPal that the funds were fraudulent. They never gave me details....I assumed they opened a PayPal act with a stolen credit card or something. PayPal has some level of safe trading guarantee but you have to make sure you follow the criteria they outline to be eligeable for that guarantee. I for one now only take personal checks and wait 7 bueiness days before I call it paid and will never do business with anyone outside this country as my scam too was from someone outside the US (but not in Nigeria ;-)

GS/WLW

[tailchaser]

To answer a few questions, for one yes the bow is for sale still and can get a heck of a deal on it now....There, with that said I'll fill in some more details. The check was very very realistic with trasparent images and everything included within the check. It passed my scrutiny, my banks, and not until it made it to the original bank (US Bank) did it come back as fraud a couple of days later. It's definitely like a fake $20. There isn't any money associated with it, just a plain old piece of paper. However, from what I've gathered if you have one from a certain bank like I did, I guess you can go to that exact bank and they will be able to identify it immediately. One day too late as it turns out. I have contacted the authorities, postal service, the authorities in Texas where the letter originated, and also the FBI. I definitely plan on looking into that law because the only thing the bank has given me was a sorry about your luck, you signed the check and open the door for me on the way out. So I'm pretty miffed about it there too. However, I'm in a similar situation where the bank assured me everything was ok, so it's good news to hear that something can be done from here. Thanks for the reply's, it's a better response that what came from the wife. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] Not sure why, anyhow, I'm off to read about this law.

tc

[DRUNK COWBOY]

You have had some bad luck in the last three years. Go get a beer on me. When I see ya, I will pay ya (in cash)

[Fshklr]

tailchaser,
Sorry to hear about your troubles.You say it's an ifisher?? or a lurker that took advantage of info in the post?? were you contacted in the post through ifish, or a private message through ifish or did you leave contact info via phone number or post your email for all to see?

Just wondering how it all started [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[Sky-Guy]

TC,
The check I had was a perfect counterfeit check as well. It had watermarks, magnetic ink for the scanners, everything. It was so good BOA couldnt even tell their own cashiers check was bad.

These people send email to masses of individuals who have ads placed for every possible item on the internet. If only 5% reply and fall for it, they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.

The government doesnt have the resources or savvy to be able to track these people down electronically. The scams usually take place with people sending things from overseas, and having money wired to places overseas. The Secret Service told me they wont even open a case for any citizen who hasn't lost at least $25,000!

I'll finish with a quote from my buddy GoHarley on the PP board.
"If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention"

[ 03-11-2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Sky-Guy ]

[MrsSled19]

Thankyou for the information

We to were taken by a bank cashiers check when sold our truck. Luckily the guys address was on the bill of sale we had him fill out. All was taken care of but the police told us from now on we should ask for cash only or no sale. Seems that computer genious people have figured a way to duplicate any document. So if they have the money for the item to draw a check on then they will have the money to be able to bring cash to pay for it.

mrssled [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

[tailchaser]

No it wasn't an ifisher. However, he got my add off of ifish and we have a link in our profiles to email us. That's how he got in touch with me directly. Well the bank is now informed of a pending lawsuit regarding the misinformation from the teller and to say the least they got kind of excited, so we'll see what monday brings. Hopefully my money back.

tc

[Fshklr]

sounds like some good news hopefully :grin: . let us know how it ends [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[kayakfisher]

US Bank...if you get a cashier's check from someone for a payment, and take it to the company it was supposedly purchased from, and they cash it...are you then protected if it was counterfit?

M.