Scum of the earth

Chris Sessions · 03-07-2004, 05:20 AM

Woke up this morning to find a couple would-be thieves rummaging through my sled.
As I calmly loaded my shotgun and at the same time called 911, the robbers were going through compartments looking for anything to steal.
To the guy with the back-words baseball cap here is the message:
I got a good look at you. I wont soon forget the look of your face at the business end of my shotgun. It�s a good thing you run fast and ran when you did, probably for both of us. Ifishers, be on the lookout for an older Ford 4x4 (1964 ish), with those lights on the top. You know, the kind poachers use. The truck was light in color, maybe primer or light gray and jacked up. Couldn�t get the plate # as they took off with their lights off. This happened in Vancouver at about 4:30 this morning.
Can�t wait to return to Alaska.
Chris

Smj · 03-07-2004, 05:39 AM

Vancouver is a big town, maybe narrow it down a bit for the people that might live in the area these lowlifes work?

Hope you didn't lose anything, and nothing got broke in you boat.

I got to do what you did once about 15 years ago. The wife woke me at 7:00am wispering at me "Mike Mike..There's a ****** in your truck!!" I went out with my 22 rifle and when I got within about 10' of the guy I jacked a shell into the chamber and that's when he turned around and looked at me. It turned out about the same as your ordeal, the guy got away before the cops got there. Then I realized I was standing there wearing nothing but underwear. I guess in the long run it's agood thing we didn't shoot them, unless they were armed...that would be a different thing!

Smj

Pitch Pocket · 03-07-2004, 05:54 AM

If that guy was armed, you were likely "taking a knife to a gunfight". A 22 isn't likely going to stop an attacker and is like a bb gun compared to his probable 9mm hand gun. Although your odds are better with a shotgun, it's no lock that he won't get off the first shot. The tragic result could be you leaving the earth for a fishing reel.

Unless you are willing to get shot and killed over your possessions, it is not a good idea to confront a car thief or prowler. Even if they catch the guy, he's not staying in jail, if he gets any jail time at all. If he id's you as the reason for his troubles, you have then put you and your family at risk. You don't know if the guy is capable of capital crimes or not. Leave the vigilante justice alone and let the police handle it.

Chris Sessions · 03-07-2004, 06:10 AM

205 cascade park area.

Smj · 03-07-2004, 06:32 AM

With respect Pitch Pocket "NO" I belive if I confront a guy who is armed, and I feel threatened, and I've got the jump on him I'm going to shoot the man dead! You are welcome to hide in your house and wait for the police to arrive if you'd like to.

22cal long rifle hollow points like a bb gun??? (Insert head scratching graemlin here)

Salmon Shark...I really thing it helps us all when people that have been victims of crimes can give a general location of where to be on the lookout for these "Scum of the earth".

Your neighbors thank you I'm sure.

Smj

Pitch Pocket · 03-07-2004, 06:49 AM

Point taken Smj (and insults ignored), but I've heard stories of people getting hit with a 22 and not even know they had a bullet in them. Even if you get lucky and get a fatal shot with a 22, you have killed someone for rummaging through your car or boat.

I don't care how confident you are about being able to get the drop on the guy, you have put your life on the line with the distinct possibility of having your kids grow up without a dad. All for what...a car stereo?

And who says the lookout doesn't have the gun and has the drop on you?

[ 03-07-2004, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Pitch Pocket ]

freespool · 03-07-2004, 06:55 AM

Had the same problem over here in SE PDX. Installed a motion dector over my sled,two weeks latter my propane heater and mushroom tank came up missing. Went to the car alarm store and picked up a cheap unit. Well over a year has passed and no problems,and as an added bonus,cats don't like to live in the boat anymore.

salmon hugger

Chris Sessions · 03-07-2004, 07:09 AM

Good idea on the car alarm freespool. How much is a cheap unit and where did you get yours?
I think Pitch Pocket has good advise but it just all depends on the circumstances and the victim�s confidence of taking control of the situation. If these guys want to steal from me they will do so at the risk of being shot. Call it vigilante justice or western justice or call it what you want, that is the way it is.

Pitch Pocket · 03-07-2004, 07:20 AM

I don't know where you get the idea that it is ok to shoot someone who rifles through your car. The use of deadly force is only justified when your life is threatened (as in self defense).

For what it's worth, if you shoot and kill someone outside of your house, you're going to be arrest and charged. They call it manslaughter and you can go to jail. Even if you prevail in the trial, lawyers fees will bankrupt you.

If your victim survives, you can be sued in civil court and you will most likely lose.

I know it's very disturbing to be a victim of a burglery, but don't make it more than it is. The court system will crucify you if start killing people for stealing car stereos. They don't even put those guys in jail if they catch them. It's more of a parking ticket than a felony anymore.

Quasimodo the fish killer · 03-07-2004, 07:40 AM

I caught a couple guys in my house once. I worked in a shop and made the bank deposits every day so I was packing an 45 semi auto. it never once dawned on me to draw down on them.

I am guessin they wish I had though since I decided to take a pair of jumper cables to them.
I nailed the first guy blind side then the second one and every time they moved I nailed them again.
they were more then happy when the cops showed up.

when we went to court the judge told the fellows that he thought if he were them he would stay as far away from my house as possible :grin:

Quasi

.

Chris Sessions · 03-07-2004, 07:48 AM

What the?!? I never said it's OK to shoot someone "who rifles through your car".

But I also intend to protect my family and home and will do so if needed. You do what you want.
End of story.

[ 03-07-2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Pitch Pocket · 03-07-2004, 07:55 AM

I guess I misunderstood Salmon Shark. The clue I was getting was when you said "If these guys want to steal from me they will do so at the risk of being shot." Sorry about that.

gottafish · 03-07-2004, 07:56 AM

Put a survalance camera on the boat and a sign "your on candid camera" worked at my house the kid down the street is doing 5 years as we speak

. he needed money for Meth

SalmonSeason · 03-07-2004, 08:01 AM

I just got home and read this and have to input...Arming yourself and calling 911 is Outstanding! Getting as much detail even better.
Protect you and your family, just remember when the police arrive have the gun put away if at all possible...you sound smart enough and have enough common sense so I won't explain why to do this.

Someone going through vehicles is usually a coward...I know this from experience and such...but do be careful because you and your family are more important than property I think that is what Pitch Pocket was trying to say...One last thing tell your neighbors and have more lighting Glad you're safe and you put the fear of GOD in 'em

Amahnee · 03-07-2004, 08:19 AM

Ted say's it best "Whack'em & stack'em". Be prepared to lose everything that you have worked for though, and make sure you have the best possible insurance. Their families will sue for wrongful death and probably win, even if the grand jury finds you justified.

P.S. More people are killed with .22 caliber firearms annually than any other caliber weapon.

Now I gotta go catch a big 'Ol greasy springer!

Twitchs_Tackle · 03-07-2004, 08:21 AM

Well, it sounds like you did things in the right order. Its better to call the police with a robbery in prog report, then, ONLY IF YOU FEEL IT IS SAFE TO, contact the scum. You must be very careful though, especially if there are two of them, because they are often armed and 'on something' and may not be in a state of mind to act rationally. It takes milliseconds for people to decide to 'Fight or Flight', and if they think they can take you, they will often try.

If you have a weapon, it may be good to have it as a back up to the verbal contact, but you must act responsibly. While it may seem justifiable to do society a favor and dust the scum, along Pitch Pockets advice, you would be held responsible should you shoot them and investigation reveals that your life was not threatened. THis is especially true if the thieves are not in your home when the shooting takes place.

1) Call Law Enforcement
2) Size up scene, gather info (licence plates, video tape thieves, listen for names, etc)
3) If you feel that it is safe to do so, and that it is important to act in order to protect yourself or your property, then contact, but do so VERY cautiously. Catchign a meth head thief in action and contacting them is kinda like surprising a cougar inside a three man tent and hoping it does rip your face off on its way out. Chances are the outcome isn't going to be pretty...

Thanks for the heads up! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

FishinMission · 03-07-2004, 08:23 AM

SS I live in the Vancouver area. I'll keep my eyes open for a truck fitting that description.

This stuff is getting way old.

Mark

Just Fish · 03-07-2004, 08:38 AM

I caught to meth junkys trying to steal my kicker motor a year ago. I took a aluminum base ball bat to them.Never did a secound in jail.These guys were carear thives.

crabbait · 03-07-2004, 08:38 AM

If the truck is more like a '74, Ford I believe, all jacked up with a row of poacher lights across the top. light primer grey, then they are the same guys who used to work the area up here. They moved a couple years ago and breakins/vehicle prowls abruptly ceased.

Only shoot in self defense and only if you are certain that your life, or the life of a family member, is in immediate danger. If you shoot (even a warning shot) be prepared to lose your gun (confiscated) and you may end up before a Grand Jury for brandishing a firearm or any of a list of other firearm charges.

By the way, ifish does not condone and will not allow advocating an illegal act (read the AUP, please).

Land Shark · 03-07-2004, 08:44 AM

Several years back I was awakened about 3:am by a phone call from my neighbor 2 doors down. He had just come home from work and was watching my other neighbors yard per her request because of prowlers she had sen crawling into her back yard. He said that 2 of them had just crawled over the fence into my back yard and were there as we spoke. He said give him a couple minutes and then I could go after them. I hit the porch light let my dog out and went after them with my shotgun. I heard them scramble over the fence then I heard a bunch of screams and thuds,,,,,,,,,,,, I guess when they hopped the fence and turned to run all they saw was a silhouette of my 6' 9" neighbor wtih a baseball bat in each hand. He hit one on the run throwing it at him and the other he wacked in the ribs when he tried to get by.... they both limped ,crawled off into the darkness. It is a hard call to shoot someone for stealing. I would only do it if challenged with any weapon.

Chris Sessions · 03-07-2004, 08:50 AM

Thanks guys. I did pretty much what you suggested Twitchs Tackle and in that order. After I called the cops, I watched (with loaded shotgun ready). When they started doing damage, ripping out my oiler, trying to pry open locked compartments and such it was time for me to become involved. Like I said, I think Pitch Pocket offered good advise and probably best not to confront. But that�s not me. People who steal car stereos should have to serve a little time with maybe a fine...But those who would mess with one's boat - Life Sentence! That's just un-American.

freespool · 03-07-2004, 09:01 AM

Salmon Shark,I think I paid $50 for mine. Found it in one of those car stereo ads in the Nickel Ads. Takes about an hour to install and set the proper sensitivity. Low flying aircraft and vehicles with no mufflers will set it off if it's to sensitive. Also when armed there is a LED light that flashes.

salmon hugger

HOGGEMIN · 03-07-2004, 12:07 PM

BottomFeeder it is not legle to use deadly force for protecting your property only your own life. So I went out to empty the garbage and was confronted by a burgler and FEARED FOR MY LIFE. So I ventaleted him. I never leave my door with out my flat black buddy. Texas is different you may ventalate for property thefts. So lets vote in Texas law and when they start droping like flys maybe the rest will slow down there thieving ways. If nothing happens to them they will keep doing there scumbag ways.

drano100 · 03-07-2004, 12:33 PM

Pitch Pocket
I don't avocate shooting anyone but I don't think that if you did shoot someone outside your house on your property and you killed them that you would face manslaughter charges. Many cases like this on the news in the last year all over the us including Oregon last month and none of the victims were chaged with manslaughter. I'm no saying that you can't be just saying most D.A. and grand jury's aren't. As far as civil suit I agree you would probaly end up in court and could lose so if you do shoot, shoot to kill I know that is harsh but it is the realality of todays world.
I caught two guys in my house one night one had my computer and the other had a small tv. I had a baseball bat guess who won.

timinthegorge · 03-07-2004, 02:33 PM

So Very Sorry to hear about this Chris!!

Did they do much damage to your sled before you confronted them? As you know, I'm headin' down to fish below Longview in a couple of weeks. I think the S&W 9mm will be joining me!!

Sounds like these lowlife, pondscum, cowardous, thievin', snakebelly parasites may be doin' this full time in your area. Hopefully the cops will find 'em, but I won't hold my breath..... Keep the shotgun handy.....

The only thing I'm confused about is why that killer dog of yours didn't make a late night snack out of 'em..... T :grin:

FishinTechnician · 03-07-2004, 02:44 PM

Many years ago my Dad's neighbor got up early and looked out the front door to see a theif wheeling a wheelbarrow down the street with things he had pilfered from neighbors garages. He steppped out on the porch and yelled at the guy and he took off running. When he got to my Dad's place he cut through the backyard running as fast as he could only to be clotheslined at the neck by the clothesline Dad had stretched across most of the backyard.

judyfish99 · 03-07-2004, 02:49 PM

Now, Now, guys! If you are going to shoot, shoot with a camera that is loaded and ready. You can have documentation to what the look like, picture license plates, ect. A picture is worth a thousand words, trust me. Can you imagine the surprise when the flash goes off? :grin: That way, there is no doubt who is doing what. In the court system, it is documentation, documentation. Something crooks cannot deny.

It is also nonviolet, has something the cops can go by. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] gotta go back to Domestic Engineering....judyfish99

Private-Aye-Fish · 03-07-2004, 03:07 PM

Having been an investigator for over 20 years and about 100 homicide investigations under my belt let me say that even a trained officer can be killed.

Do you all recall the retired officer just a couple of weeks ago here in Oregon being killed checking on a neighbors house?

Call 911
Pay close attention to evey small detail you can
ht, wt clothing,hair style, facial hair, vehicle descriptions are a key, color, make, wheels tires etc. use your shotgun during bird season for ducks and geese not jail birds.

Fishen Fool · 03-07-2004, 05:55 PM

Pitch Pocket, this is the kind of thinking that is makeing it so easy for the idiotic crooks, they know there isn't any repercussions from the police or the victum, The police arn't going to follow up on what they consider a petty crime, no matter that we have to work our butts off for our goodies so that some druggie can help them selves. Sorry about the rant but thieves really tic me off.

Drakeblake · 03-07-2004, 08:23 PM

It sounds like quite a few of you keep weapons handy for just such an event. I guess what im wondering is where you guys keep your firearms? Their is a fine line between having them handy and being unsafe if there are children in your house. Do you have them loaded and ready to go under your bed? or do you have the gun in one place and the ammo in another? Having them in a gun safe buried in the basement isnt such a good idea either because if somebody is in your house already theirs not going to be much time to go dig them up. Maybe having a trigger or action lock on them is the best way to go. What do you guys do?

-blake

BottomFeeder · 03-07-2004, 11:00 PM

In Oregon it is totally legal to use deadly force to protect yourself or your property (including theft). If you catch someone stealing something out of your boat, your car, whatever, don't hesistate to ventilate them. Really, what jury would convict you? I think we're all tired of crime.

-Bottomfeeder

freespool · 03-07-2004, 11:09 PM

Bottom,you may want to seek counsel on this matter. You don't want to end up being some bad mans boyfriend.

salmon hugger

[ 03-07-2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: freespool ]

drano100 · 03-07-2004, 11:22 PM

Drakeblake
I use trigger locks and keep ammo locked up in a different area of the house. except that 1 clip kept close but well hidden in the bedroom.
I should say too that both my kids started shootig at a early age and have great respect for firarms but I keep them locked because you never know about there freinds and parents and how they might feel about guns.

Chris Sessions · 03-08-2004, 04:26 AM

This site is great Jennie. Not only can I report this attempted robbery but also get a description of the vehicle out to potential victims / owners of boats. Also a lot of good discussion and information being shared. I would like to agree with you judyfish99 (welcome to ifish) and in a perfect world that sounds reasonable. In my opinion taking a flash picture of a criminal who very likely is packing heat is too risky. You may see a flash also. Some of my fishing customers are in law enforcement and a couple years ago they shared a book with me. You always hear about stories about how dangerous guns are in your home but rarely do you hear of the other side. How many times guns have saved innocent people's lives. This book documented these actual cases where would-be victims saved theirs or their loved one's life. One case was with a woman who was car-jacked by a well-known serial killer. He shoved her in the trunk of the car and took off down a secluded country road. As they were driving he was screaming at her telling her all the terrible things he was about to do to her. When he opened the trunk she emptied the clip of a 9 mm in his chest that she carried in her purse. If she hadn't, well, you can figure that out.
This should open a whole new can of worms.
Chris

[ 03-08-2004, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Salmon Shark ]

Bait Bucket · 03-08-2004, 05:39 AM

I guess I'm lucky to have everything behide a fence including a dog that doesn''t cotton to strangers without proper introduction.

Chrome Bumper · 03-08-2004, 06:42 AM

Great topic! I live in the County, I can discharge firearms on the property. A round overhead would be fun, might alert the neighbors to gather more details.. Were you wearing boxers or tighty whiteys?

Pilar · 03-08-2004, 07:33 AM

Dogs are good, big nasty dogs are better. Also thieves can fall and break bones as they climb out of your boat. 'Never mind the Louisville slugger sized dent in the crankster's head, he broke both kneecaps and his skull as he jumped out of my boat officer.'

If you were to say disable the rig, they would be on foot and easy for the man to find.

Crank junkie/thief should replace commercial crab fisher in Alaska as the most hazardous occupation.

Pitch Pocket · 03-08-2004, 07:41 AM

Fishen Fool, With all due respect, if �this kind of thinking� is not wanting to play Rambo and confront a meth freak or a teenager boosting my car with a gun or a baseball bat, then I am guilty as charged. I prefer to think of it as proper interpretation of the rules of society and good judgment when making a risk/reward decision. Society, not me, has decided that petty crimes against property do not generally justify deadly force. Society has also decided that those same crimes are not worthy of extended jail time if they get any at all.

An emotional gut reaction decision to shoot a car/boat prowler that could lead to loss of life (yours or theirs), liberty (when you go to jail), money (when you have to defend your actions in court), peace of mind (could you sleep nights knowing you killed someone, much less a 15 year old prowler?), is not in my opinion, a good move. The risks far outweigh any possible reward.

Don�t get me wrong. I also despise thieves and go to great lengths to protect my possessions. I do have a handgun and will use it only if I feel the need to defend my family or myself from bodily harm.

LQQKASTAR · 03-08-2004, 07:51 AM

A flashbulb in pich black?, i guess its cheaper than having a neon sighn that says "shoot in this direction"

KingFisher85 · 03-08-2004, 07:55 AM

This topic should be moved to LIG

As to my thoughts

The 3Ss :grin:

IronNoggin · 03-08-2004, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bait Bucket:
I guess I'm lucky to have everything behide a fence including a dog that doesn''t cotton to strangers without proper introduction.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">aYup!

Seems that even out in the sticks, the incidence of thievery is on the increase this year. Several buddies have had gear stolen from their trucks while down on the River, and one had a month-old new 4X4 liberated from a parking spot right on the highway (never did reappear, will forever wonder if the theives got if off the Island, or chopped it).

Now, I leave nothing of interest behind at all, and have a sticker reading "This truck protected by 12 Guage Shotgun four days a week. You guess which four". Shame it has come to this! For the larger centres (ie Vancouver) it has become VERY problematic. If the judges would hand out anything close to a real deterrent, perhaps it would help. Now, it seems, the thieves have more rights than those they steal from!

Nog

happybrew · 03-08-2004, 08:28 PM

I am proficient in the use of firearms. I am also the parent of five children, soon to be six. Make that five very inquisitive children, who snoop anywhere they can. Consequently, I own no firearms. It's not worth it to me to run the risk, and with my children I believe it to be substantial, of them getting ahold of my firearm. If I were single, I would probably own one. Furthermore, let's look at our choices here.

What is more valuable: human life or automobile?
human life or computer?
human life or fishing tackle?

Sorry, human life wins every time, even if it is the life of someone who happens to be severely ticking me off by taking my stuff. Hence I will not own a firearm to protect my stuff.

Now let's look at the next scenario: life of someone threatening the lives of my loved ones, or the lives of my loved ones. Obviously, it's justified. Is it necessary? What are the odds? Are the odds greater that my firearm will hurt my loved ones than that I will ever use it to defend their lives? It's a hard one. Pepper spray and a baseball bat have no chance of killing my kids inadvertently, either through a bullet going through a wall or my kids getting ahold of my weapon. Of course, it's less of a sure bet than a firearm for success, but I'm rather proficient at taking someone down also. It really would take a split second for me to knock them out either. Factor that into the odds, and it seems like the odds of my children remaining safe are greater if I don't own a firearm. Of course, it's best to avoid the whole situation to begin with. Keep the whole area around your house well lit, know your neighbors, and be aware. I don't think it's normally necessary to resort to firearms. I'm not going to second guess anyone else's decision, but that's mine, and that's how I arrived at it. Remember, the crank addict someone ventilates during a burglary could someday reform and become a valuable, productive member of society.

Imagine a crank addict being shot stealing a $400 television set. Even if only one out of ten reforms, and produces $1 million dollars in productivity thereafter (quite realistic over a lifetime, actually on the low side), and discount that by the other nine, assuming liberally that they produce nothing over their lifetimes, and you have $100,000 in productivity lost over a $400 television set. Economically, it doesn't make sense either.

happybrew