If I made a political board on ifish...

[Jennie@ifish]

I would move everything controversial, over there, and you could fight it out.
Now, who would moderate it? One right and one left, or would they kill each other?
Should it be unmoderated?
If it doesn't work, I'd just close it.
Life in General could be nice again!
I'm hoping that if I do this, no one would want to go to the political board, because it would be really scary there! :shocked:
But, at least the people that have left LIG because of uglies would come back and bake pies with me! :smile:

Anyhow, If I started one, I'd need help in naming it.
What would it be called? We could even rename Life in General to something more pleasing!

Pleasantries! :smile:
And the political board could be called
"Unpleasantries!"
Tee hee...

Come on, you creative minds... Come up with some names for us!

Now, I'm not saying I'm going to do this for sure, I'm just exploring.

Jen

[MonkeyBoy]

How about Trash Fish (not to be confused with pike minnows). Or how about Slamfest (not to be confused with salmon hammering your ifish kwikfish). Maybe even the Bonk page (not to be confused with what happens when your wife see's the credit card bill from your last shopping spree). [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[wootersen]

How about "Soapbox" or "My Moral ground is higher than yours"

:grin: :grin: :grin:

How about the "You don't agree with me so you're stupid" forum j/k
Seems to me that there are enough places around the internet for political discussion so why would ifish need one?

[Maddie'sDaddy]

"Fight Night at the Lefty vs Righty Club"

Oh well I try !

[ReelBeauty]

Humm... You might want to put a warning on that one. Maybe you could call it, “sticks and stones!” As for me, I’m going to stay where its nice and safe, and bake pies with Jen! Politics and religion can get pretty ugly! Stew is right though, there are a lot of political discussion boards out there. But people will still talk about it on Ifish. Heidi

[Thumper]

I just don't know how you can separate "politics" from "life in general". One of the dictionary definitions of "politics" is:

"The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society."

Politics is often not about political parties, not about conservative vs. liberal, not about Republican vs. Democrat, not about raising vs. lowering taxes. It is all that and so much more.

I think that "life in general" by nature includes politics. Politics IS life in general. The two cannot be logically separated.

And life in general thereby implies differences of opinion (see definition above).

Seems to me that you either have a "life in general" discussion board or you don't.

Look at the current board front page. There are threads on Intel moving jobs, the economy, homosexual marriage, Oregon finances, Howard Dean, Pakistan, Bush's National Guard service, the Iraq war and unemployment. Ten threads that have significant political overtones. Out of 46 total threads. Those ten topics (22% of the page 1 threads) have 46% of the posts.

Ifishers are ALIVE!!! Like most Americans they are political animals. They disagree about things and love to comment on the issues of the day.

Good luck, Jennie, in separating "life" from "politics".

[Snapset]

Call it "The Wrong vs. The Right" :grin: I am just kidding folks. Honestly.
Disclaimer:
No liberals were intended to be injured in the making of this lame joke.

[WheresMyBobber]

Topic: If I made a political board on ifish...

I think it's a great idea if you can handle it, and if you did, I promise I would never post there!

Stew...

[Snapset]

Actually you could call it "The Round File". It could be for all contentious issues, not just politics. That way when any discussion becomes devoid of respect for others opinions, the moderators could move the whole thread to "The Round File" where after 3 days the whole thing would be deleted. That way if someone goes to that page, they know going in they might have to rummage around in a lot of garbage in order to find something worthwhile to read.

[STGRule]

Snapset: I LOVE that idea. Three days, say it and then like smoke in the wind.... All gone. We can make our points, and since we won't change anybody’s mind anyway, nothing is left to hurt anyone’s feelings. Because we really do need to meet face to face before we can have an accurate idea of whether we are worth the air we breathe and the skin we take up. .

[GOT2FISH]

I went back and looked and I think I should change my name to Captian Ugly.Some stuff winds me up and I havent learned to control my fingers on the key board yet.So if I have contributed to making LIG a bad place please accept my appoligies. From now on I will try to limit my responses to only possitive stuff. :grin:

[happybrew]

Originally posted by Stew:
How about the "You don't agree with me so you're stupid" forum j/k
Seems to me that there are enough places around the internet for political discussion so why would ifish need one?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Oh, come on Stew, you posted on the last locked thread... Don't be getting high-falutin on us! Oh, wait a minute, you fly fish, so you ARE high-falutin!


(When I was a teenager, I had a relatively successful fly-tying business. My, how I've have fallen and become debased! I.... gasp..... troll lures for trout now! :shocked: )

happybrew

[happybrew]

Jenny, it seems to me that you'll get just as many complaints from people who can't hold their own in the discussion. I say ban all the liberals, and life will be good! :grin:

happybrew

What was that happybrew? I was busy looking through my Orvis catalog and sipping single malt scotch :smile:

[garyk]

Yeah, Thumper nailed it.

If you want to divorce politics from everyday life, you're going to have to go live in country where you're either too poor or too oppressed to have any choices.

Thinking about it, really what 'politics' is, is just the discussion about what choices to make in the realm of public policy.

You cannot escape it.

Every single purchase you make is a political choice:

foreign import v. domestic
union store v. nonunion
recycled/recyclable v. virgin/nonrecyclable
locally owned store v. mega corporate conglomerate
etc. etc. etc.

If anything, we need more people involved in politics, - rather than giving it over to the professional lobbyists - grappling with this complicated stuff at the grassroots - which is what Ifish largely is.

And finally, at least on Ifish despite how outlandish some of the viewpoints might be, I always figure that with those individuals I can at least share a single commonality - fish and fishing.

[TheTexan]

Put a password on it and force people to request permission to view that board. Send them permission or password along with a disclaimer that things are not moderated, then you ignore it and go fish.

Originally posted by ex-tex:
Put a password on it and force people to request permission to view that board. Send them permission or password along with a disclaimer that things are not moderated, then you ignore it and go fish.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I think that's an excellent idea
I have no problem discussing politics but when it turns nasty then that's different.
Name calling and mudslinging shouldn't be allowed in my opinion.

[ 02-19-2004, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Stew ]

[Fish-n-Fever]

How about...
Dead Horse Loop..
(same things over and over and over and over and over)...etc..
or...
Ifish Suburbs
or...
Bottom Feeders...
or...Redundant Reef(ers) (just kidding, skip the ers part)
or...
The Cellar
or...
Not!
Ron

[Smj]

My vote if you're interested, keep it the way it is. I'm a big boy, I don't need someone to hold my hand when reading the non-fishing portion of ifish.

Some days I don't read the paper because it seems this world is going in the toilet, so I do better without seeing it in print, I just ignore it. But reading the sometimes hot dicussions between people that I feel like I know somehow is enjoyable.

Ifishers that get all upset because some discussion doesn't go their way, or some ifishers make them feel picked on, should just learn to click the little (X) at the top right of the page, don't go crying to the mods!

Oh ya, What Thumper said was really good!

Smj

[Pete]

I say "yea" to a new forum. We could call it "Politics, as usual". The idea for Life in General wasn't that it be a political forum. The idea was to provide a place for the sports talk and birthdays and new babies that have nothing to do with fishing, but everything to do with our lives, that were showing up in the Fishing Forum. Somehow the concept was lost and the topics of jokes and politics grew legs. Jennie and the mods have tried to return the Life in General forum to it's originally intended purpose; discussion of OUR lives and the events in them. Things like new jobs, new kids, marriages, birthdays ... there are lots of political forums on other web sites which seem better suited to partisan political issues. It seems almost impossible to post about politics without people becoming heated and emotional about it. Ifish is really about fishing and none of us enjoy mediating the warfare that seems to develop so quickly when partisan topics come up. My greatest concern is that the divisiveness already generated on LIG could cause an even greater rift in what was intended to be a place to share a common interest in fishing.

[jokester]

I've got the perfect name for it "The Dead Horse" :grin: hmmmmmmmmm [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

-jokester

[Jennie@ifish]

Pete, I think you and I are starting to sound like a broken record.
I don't want to lose politics. Never did. However, some people cannot seem to restrain themselves to acting reasonably and kindly to one another, thus putting our community at odds. That distance spreads to the fishing community.
More broken record: IF WE COULD ONLY RESPECT EACH OTHER while stating OUR opinions!!! Opinions are like elbows are like political beliefs are like your religeous beliefs! EVERYONE HAS... (TWO?) :smile:


Therefore, if you cannot get along on ifish, you will be taken to the chamber of doom political forum where you can insult your fellow ifisher? Wait a minute... I'm rethinking this board, here for a minute! :smile:

The whole premise of ifish is to bring fellow fishing enthusiasts TOGETHER. If it is your intention to break that bond by bullying your political opinion down someone elses throat-- you are in the wrong place. The only time we bully anything down anything's throat, is while we are fishing. And for that, we use a sharp pointed hook!

Please keep your opinions barbless!!!

Jen

[Straydog]

Thumper and Gary K. are right. It is not practical to think politics is not part of life in general. Real life is real life.

In terms of respect, how will that be achieved when the whole topic is looked upon and refered to without said respect? Look at the some of the names suggested, by Jenny as well as others. (from previous posts) Do they emulate respect? Not in my mind. I have been made to feel like a second class citizen for even participating and have backed off accordingly. People talking of using respect in disrespectful manner does not work....

I strongly agree with Gary K's assertion that more, not less political involvment should be encouraged in our lives.

I strongly disagree that no one's mind is being changed in these discussions. Perhaps not the minds of the one on one participants, although I question that as well, but I am convinced there are minds of readers being changed to varying degrees.

[ 02-19-2004, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Bait O' Eggs]

I would call the forum "The porcelain flush" and never post their.


Nearly all conversations that start with I am write and you are wrong end up just ruffling feathers. It would seem much easier to just shoot the liberals

[Abalone]

Allright then we have a political Thread.
May I be the first one to start a new thread on " Political Life "

George Bush is a horses behind and all you republicans can kiss my #%$%

[Jennie@ifish]

Straydog, first... spell my name respectfully correct. :smile:

The reason the names do not emulate respect is from past experiences. The threads and posts posted have not been respectful of one another. I have seen many of you post things that raise the hair on my neck. How can you people be so rude to people? I just don't understand that!

I am so glad that I was born with the ability to listen to one person and say, "Oh! Yeah! I see your point!" and then listen to the opposite and think, "Well, yes, they have a point, too!"

Am I a republican, or am I a democrat? I really don't know! I think you both have good points on differing subjects.

Once, a very long time ago, I told a dear friend that I was upset because I could never make up my mind on important subjects, and thus, felt I couldn't carry on an intelligent conversation. He said, "Jennie, there are enough people with strong opinions. You are blessed to be the way you are."

That helped me SO much, and you know, I think he is right! Thank God that I don't have stronger opinions, because I do not handle enemies well, at all.

Don't get me wrong. I do have strong opinions on some things, now. It just takes me longer than most to formulate them. But, I feel more confident in the long run when I take longer to really listen, and come to that opinion. It is that process of listening that helps me to understand both points of view, and have respect for people with differing beliefs.

Nothing is written in stone. Thus, also, I don't judge people for their actions, as you never know what experiences in their life has caused them to be the way they are. Think about it. Not everyone is as lucky as some, in the way they were raised. I honestly think that people, despite their actions, should be given special consideration and understanding. You never know what they have been through today, let alone, their entire lives.
Let's give people a little more love, a little less condemnation. It goes a lot further towards a society that works well, together.

Jen

[Fshklr]

Pete's idea was a good one.."Politics, as usual".

also, Romper Room
The Zoo
Political Nation

As far as a mod for the board..it needs to be someone that doesn't care one way or the other about the issues..just the peace within the forum. when it gets ugly..as usual..Close It!

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

How about calling it the Readers Editorial Page ?

That seems to be what LIG has mostly become.

Dale

[Straydog]

Jennie,

I respectfully apologize for disrespectfully misspelling your name. :blush:

Let's see, I believe now is the time for SOMEONE to come on here and accuse you of being "The Spelling ****"!!! [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] (respectfully, of course.........)

[ 02-19-2004, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[lost_sailor]

"The Dead Horse" sounds perfect.

Unmoderated would be very interesting.

[husker]

unmoderated......politcal forum with special passwords;....and a disclaimer......enter at your own risk.....

[ 02-19-2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: husker ]

[Chromaflage]

I still contend that separting politics from other discussion will be extremely difficult. For example, sportfish quotas vs. commercial netting quotas. This subject could not be more related to fishing. As this is a political topic by nature, it's also relevent. So would it be more appropriate for Ifish community or a "political" forum? If we define political discussion as containing oposing opinions, much of the discussions would be forced into the "politcial" forum.

It would also be difficult to establish a distinction between an informative discussion and a political one.

As I've said before, with this many people in one "place" everyone is not going to agree on everything. There are people who cross the line and should be dealt with accordingly.

Further, emotional reactions can not be adequately conveyed or interpreted in a text base forum. Even the graemlins don't adequately convey feelings. This is something we all need to be aware of.

my .01 (tax rebate :grin: )

ORS

[Jennie@ifish]

Never considered moving fish politics. Those go on the main forum, and always will. Not saying that they are immune to hatred, just that they are fish related.
J

[lost_sailor]

The mods could make that call and move topics as they see fit.

[Abalone]

Politices being defined as any issues not related to fishing.

Fishing politics could stay on Ifish Community. If you want to talk about non Fishing related issues
Like: Canidates running for office OR Issue dealing with New laws then it should be discussed on
" The new Board "

Then anyone that wants to jump into the frackus can do so away from the of IFISH community.

[Just Fish]

A political board will divide the ifish I have seen it on other sites and it gets ugly. I think I will just talk about fishing and get away from all the mud slinging.

[Jennie@ifish]

"Gets" ugly?
My point, exactly, however... It is already happening. I'm glad you haven't seen much of it. That means to me that the admin and mods are doing a fairly good job with the broom and dust pan. :smile:

Jen

[Digifish]

I tend to agree with Thumper, garky and Straydog's points in genreral.

LIG has one of the best discusion forums on the net and its filled with local people. That local participation is really imporant. I get to discuss and read about relavant issues.

My concern is that splitting out politcal discussions exclusivley would create a LIG forum that is not very stimulating and a politcal forum that would be vitrolic and filled with hard core politicos.

I think dividing them creates two mediocre forms rather than fostering (thank you moderators!) one that can sometimes be edgy and provacative but ultimately very good and always interesting....like "life in general"....... :smile:

[crabbait]

The problem with the status quo is that people are constantly challenging the boundaries. The result is a need for constant vigilance and a lot of moderating.

Even with a quick broom and dustpan, people's feelings get hurt, they develop negative opinions of their fellow fishermen and react with name calling, etc, if not in the current thread, then in the next one.

In short, some people don't post within the guidelines that have been established. Some do their best to honor the rules and feel frustration and hold the admin/mods at fault.

If everyone followed the rules we would not be having this discussion. Since that seems impossible (for some) we must either strictly enforce the rules (timeouts, bannings, and a bunch of work and hard feelings for us) or create a place for the lawless.

While some may like the "leave it alone" option, it just ain't working.

[Abalone]

I agree with all the above. I have stepped out of line a couple times and the mods were quick to jump on me about it. My feeling aren't at all hurt. I am glad to have someone point out the rules to me. I have no desire to offend anyone and I believe everyone has the right to their own opinion.
I have a lot of faith that the administrators on IFISH to moderate any discussion. They have the ability to remove Posts that get out of hand and ultimately can recind anyone's membership.

I almost hate to talk about politics anywhere but I have had some success on IFISH and I think that is a reflection of the people that are on the forum and the moderators.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Ah..... Just ban the following members from LIG and it will take care of the problem.

Catch And Eat :grin:
Straydog
Keta
Lost Sailor
Thumper
El Kabong
Dan S.
and the rest of the trouble makers. [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

But then LIG would be boring, boring, without these folks so I guess you'll just have to continue taking a ruler to our hands. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] Heck I see better fights on the main board than in the LIG. For the most part I think folks have done pretty well recently and in fact better than on the main board in many instances. Let it be and Stew can still moderate it with a lot of help from his friends. Perhaps you need to name an additional moderator or two to help out with with the work flow. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Let it be and Stew can still moderate it with a lot of help from his friends.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">No thanks Bernard :shocked:

[crabbait]

Unfortunately that's about 1/4 of the list...... :shocked: :grin:

[lost_sailor]

Glad I made the cut.

[3riversBob]

Jennie said, "But, at least the people that have left LIG because of uglies would come back and bake pies with me!"

I want to know more about the pies! I don't bake pies but I sure like to eat them. Let me know when the pie is out of the oven Jennie. :smile:

[DanS]

Now wait just a minute, Bernie...........how'd YOU get on the top of that list?

You conservative-types are always oppressing guys like me, taking away my constitutional right to be at the top of lists and such. :grin:

I don't know about everyone else, but I REALLY like LIG. I know for a fact that minds get changed (mine has), and at the very least it's interesting to get many viewpoints on the same issue. It's a shame that hurt feelings get in the way of exchanging ideas and viewpoints.

I really have no suggestion........except that we ALL take the time to hear other points of view and take them for what they are......another way to look at the same issue. There doesn't have to be a right and wrong.

DanS,
NO WE DON"T :grin:
How ya been doin?

[DanS]

Doin' fine......and thanks for asking Lee. How's the family?

[Thumper]

What I find amusing is that those of us who argue the most are the biggest supporters of each other. Kinda like kids who fight much of the time, but woe to the outsider who picks on one of ours. It's kinda cute in a way. :tongue:

But the moderators only get to see the conflict. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] Sorry about that.

[ 02-19-2004, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

[Straydog]

Catch and Eat,

Hows come you get to be first???? I am just as obnoxious as you!!! :grin:

Good points Thumper.


[ 02-19-2004, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[happybrew]

I think that politics will always call up strong opinions strongly expressed. When people don't like another person's opinion they get offended by it. I think it's wrong to get offended by it. We are grownups, and we are expected to vote, and live with each other. A person is going to have those opinions whether you know they have them or not, so if you like the guy if you don't know his opinions, then dislike the guy when you do know the opinions, it could truly be said that you really didn't have much basis to like the guy in the first place. But we are more than our political opinions.

If you don't want politics, then change the name of LIG to something like "Cookie Recipes and Newborn Puppies", and just ban it all, because somebody is always going to lack the maturity to accept that someone else has a different opinion, and is going to be offended. I think the complaints are in large part unjustified. A difference in opinion is not rancor, unless someone is so immature that they take offense to something they disagree with. Then the basis for it being called rancor is not the difference in opinion per se, but how someone else feels about there being a difference of opinion. It's always going to happen, guarranteed. Personally, I think the snagging threads on the main forum are far more rancorous than anything going on here. It's not going to end with a political board anymore than it ended when LIG was created to take stuff off the main board. Eventually a political board for really controversial things would need to be created, then for really nasty controversial things, ad infinitum.

Remember: Someone out there isn't going to like your cookie recipe, doesn't think your kid is cute, and thinks the last thing you posted to the word association thread was kinda dumb. Do you care? I hope not. So if you don't care about what people's opinions are on those things, and those are probably nearer and dearer to you than anything about George Bush, why in the world should you get offended by what someone thinks about George Bush, or &lt;petunias&gt; (there, did it for ya crabbait), or our educational system?

happybrew

[ 02-19-2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

[Digifish]

Happybrew,
I dont want you to feel bad, I think you should be on the list too. :grin:

[happybrew]

Nah, I shouldn't be on the list. I should be the only one NOT on the list! Then I could have my own forum to rant on without anyone disagreeing with me! Oh, wait a minute, I could just start my own webpage and do that now anyway! :grin:

Hey! I've got a great idea! I could have my own forum on Ifish locked to anyone but me to read or post on, then nobody could be offended when I say naughty words like &lt;petunias&gt; (there, did it again for you moderators), even though Hillary Clinton said it was the most important issue facing America in her Senate election acceptance speech. :shocked:


happybrew

[crabbait]

Happybrew is a list. :tongue: :grin:

Wow Happybrew! You've turned pretty hard core lately. What's up with that?

[AuntyM]

Stew said:

What was that happybrew? I was busy looking through my Orvis catalog and sipping single malt scotch

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Uh huh. Sure. Like you aren't puffing away on an expensive cigar also? You can't fool me Stew. Please tell the whole truth from now on. :grin:

[Birdnest]

I think I figured this whole thing out. It's a sting operation. Jen will set up a political board and all those who wonder in...bam. Kinda like the free TV offers and the criminals come walking in...bam.

Joe

[happybrew]

Originally posted by Stew:
Wow Happybrew! You've turned pretty hard core lately. What's up with that?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Lately? I don't know, must be a phase. Perhaps its because I can't land a fish lately.


happybrew

[CATCH AND EAT]

Oh I did'nt leave Happy Brew off the list. "and all the other trouble makers". :grin: And as far as me being at the top of the list, well,,,,,those who start a list get to be on top of the list. :grin: :tongue:

I would have put Crabbait at the top of the list but he does'nt post much any more cause he and the mods are always STEWing ( ) over everything for Pete's sake while the rest of us are worrying about what to do with our latest SKEIN off eggs by reading the latest STGrule handbook of sturgeon mortality. Sometimes we have to step back and laugh at some of this stuff. I laugh at myself a lot. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

There are some very learned folks here on both sides of the issues. Opinions are appreciated but of course not always accepted and that's okay. Nothing wrong with listening to each other. Like Dan S. said, some of my opinions have actually changed a "little bit" because of this forum. Happy Brew brought a a good point which I also expressed earlier that the main forum gets some pretty heated debate just as LIG does. Yesterdays Clackamas thread is a prime example. There will be tiffs from one time to another in a family of fishers but in the end most of us are big enough to move on.

So lets move on. Leave it as is.