Diploma Vs. GED

[Keeper]

Diploma or GED; which one looks better on a resume or job application?

My son is a Junior at Tualatin. He is a good kid but didn't realize until this year how important it was to get good grades(Yes, I tried to tell him). He has been working part time in distribution doing shipping/receiving and saving money since his Freshman year.

His dilemma: It will cost $520 to take the classes online that he failed (English) or didn't pass with a "B" or better to advance to the next level (Math)in order to graduate next year OR he can drop out and get his GED for less than $100! He has the money but isn't sure that it is worth $520 to graduate.

He is pretty depressed and upset with himself. He thinks he is the only person who has faced this decision...I would love to tell him what to do but HE needs to decide.

I know he checks out Ifish and I think it would be helpful to hear from some adults who have been there...

So how many Ifishers have GED's? How has it effected your life?

How many Ifishers are employers who would rather hire a diploma over a GED? Why?

Yes, Tualatin offers credit recovery...after school (which is when he works) and if they don't have enough kids signed up; its cancelled.

[STGRule]

Personally, I prefer to see a diploma rather than a GED if there is no applicable work history. Practically, it may mean more with the GED as you actually have to pass that as opposed to being bumped through. I think the answer may be to make the class up through your community college. Some classes are offered online and at odd hours that may fit in his schedule better. It also gives him a start on a college degree. He will need a college degree in today’s job market so have him start now.

diploma

[wade]

Keeper,

There is a lot of difference, if it pertains to somebody young, like <23. After that it matters less and less because life performance comes into play. From my view as an employer, the difference between a GED and an actual Diploma is about as different as between a GED and nothing because it says a lot about responsibity and following through. To me being a drop-out is a pretty loud stigma early on. GED = dropout. The thing about a GED is though, many places like the military don't differentiate between the two and without one or the other you're not even qualified for consideration.

I know you didn't ask, but my advice is to try and get him to get a diploma. Is it really necessary to pay for an online class or is this just a way to save a year? One of my daughters couldn't care less about school but she kept going until she earned a diploma, she was almost 20. The way I see it, unless the kid has something promising lined up getting a diploma is life stage 1.

Kevin

[ICHTHYDEMON]

I was in the exact situation your son is in when I was a Senior in HS back in 1991. Halfway thru the year,and I realized there was no way I was going to graduate with my friends. I hated HS,I skipped school,got suspended for fighting about once a semester,and just didn't give a rip about school.

I used to laugh at my parents,when they would preach about school. I knew way more about life than they did. :grin:

I ended up getting my GED,and went on with my life. I can tell you,I have never been turned down from from any job I have applied for. I've only had one employer mention my GED,and he wanted to know why I didn't graduate. I told him the truth,and he ended up hiring me anyways.

Looking back,I would have much rather been a good student,and went on to college. These days a college degree will get you further than a HS diploma or GED ever will. :smile:

[Mello-Yello]

I think Wade summed up my feelings.

I have reviewed many job applications, and while my final decision rarely comes down to GED vs. Diploma, it definetely has the tendency to leave an impression of a "quitter", or someone that doesn't take serious things serious. I realize this isn't always the case, but it leaves that impression.

I think it also depends on what he wants to do with himself the rest of his life.

My advise would be to do what he can to get that dimploma. It says a lot about the person, without the person having to defend anything.

I wish him well.

M-Y

[Water Ready]

Either one will work if there is a work ethics history. I think it mostly depends on what field he may be going into. Most employers in production/ distribution are looking for someone that is willing to work and be on time every day. :smile: The idea to go to work and make money is to be there to make it. Not only that but he gets paid for the on the job training.
To move into management positions, probably would take years of on the job training, or a diploma and a degree. I used to manage 35 employees. Criteria they had to meet in production/distribution was good work history, and no drugs! School began the day they were hired. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]
But, higher education doesn't always mean you can get a great job. The only place you will find "Success" before "Work" is in the dictionary! Good luck! :smile:

[Hoosier Daddy]

Diploma. It probably shouldn't matter, but it does. The difference in cost now is nothing to the cost the difference will incure over the rest of his life.

[Flatfish]

Diploma.

[James in Idaho]

Keeper:

I'm a financial aid officer at a medium size state university. From an admissions view, there really is not a difference at open admission institutions. Most state schools and community colleges are open admission, so if continuing his education (academic or vocational) he should be able to be admitted. For most federal financial aid, a GED is required by most schools. However, if he is looking at the military, then he needs the degree, they take very few, if any GED's.

[Straydog]

Diploma. It will be the best $520 he ever spent, in my opinion. I agree with all that has been said in favor of a diploma above.

[Freighter Bait]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by STGRule:
[qb] Personally, I prefer to see a diploma rather than a GED if there is no applicable work history. Practically, it may mean more with the GED as you actually have to pass that as opposed to being bumped through.

Bumping through doesn't happen any more. Diploma is by far the best option.
Best of luck.

[ 02-04-2004, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Freighter Bait ]

[Cool Texan]

Diploma.

While a GED is better than nothing, it is nowhere close to the Diploma.

[Popeye]

When I was a senior in high school, my now wife, got PG. I had many choices, but decided to marry her for all of the obvious reasons (at least obvious back in '68). She was then kicked out of school when she began to "show". Knowing that I was going to have to support her, I dropped out. Now, I had been taking college prep classes for many years which included advanced math and sciences. I tried night classes at the junior college to finish my diploma, to no avail. Later, I decided to take the GED test, and passed with very high marks.
We struggled for many years, financially, and otherwise, but I've never really been a quitter, and didn't consider dropping out of school for the reason that I did, as quitting.

Many hard years went by.

We have now been married 35 years, raised three Very Fine sons, and I own a multi-million dollar company.
I guess the moral to the story is, that for each of us, is a different path in life. Those decisions as to how we will fair, are going to have to made by oneself sooner or later, and I personally don't believe 16 or 17 is too young to start. The best advise that any parent can give their children, is that "They" totally understand the long term consequences of their decisions, and to be there for them, with any and all advise to help them along.

Just one person's perspective

Bruce A Marler
Pres/CEO
Marler Enterprises Inc.

[clearview2u]

I know BYU offers independent studies. It cost $99 for every half credit. The student has one year to complete each course. This might be a good way to go.

[Elwix]

Diploma.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Anybody who says money cant buy happiness hasnt had enough money :grin:

Get the diploma, and any formal education usually pays off in multiple fold.

How long will this kid be happy unloading trucks? It might put gas in the car for now so he can cruise around with his buddies. But why put himself in a box that is very hard to get out of later. Education opens doors and creates opportunities.

[Birdnest]

To the young man in question:

Too early in life to start handicapping yourself. Put your ego aside, get this squared away, and move on. Can you survive with a GED, sure, but why would you pick that route? $500?

Yes there are exceptions to the rule, but I call that George Burns logic. "Hey, if George Burns can smoke and live to 100, so can I".

We are living in an ever complicated world and unless you get yourself a skill/education you just dramatically increased your odds to a life of flipping burgers.

Why is that important? Freedom, free to have control over your life instead of having your life dictated to you. Free to spend quality time with your family and provide for them in a comfortable way. Freedom.

If you don't mind living below the poverty line, depending on tax payers to pick up the slack of your poor decisions, and spending your life living week to week, then please disregard the above opinion.

Joe

[Silver Hilton]

Diploma, followed by college education or Vocational. You NEED a skill.

I got a diploma and started college and full time work. (good pay for 1972 at $10.98 per hr) but when work got to be more than full time and I was offered an apprentice position I dropped out of college and became a Millwright. For over 25 years it paid the bills but my body also paid for it. All of my coworkers have fingers missing, bad knees or backs or several of these. Now many of us can’t find work due to mill closures and industry going overseas.
Tell him to get his HS diploma and stay in school!

Popeye, You and your wonderfull wife are an exception :smile: Most don't have the drive, skills and the luck you have had (I know you have also had hard times). You are the old "Americian Dream" and I'm glad to know you.

[lost_sailor]

On the resume, I would say

1. Advanced degrees look the best
2. College graduation (bachelors degree) next
3. High school graduation
4. GED
5. Dropout
6. Convicted felon

[TundraIII]

B.O.E.... [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Lured In]

I think it has all been said, but I'll toss out a few other thoughts.

Out of 3 children in my family, two of us graduated high school, and I was the only one to get a Bachelors. My brother who did not finish HS got his GED and did some Community College work, but didn't get his AS. My other brother who finished HS also did some community college work, but did not finish as money was knocking on his door.

Where are we today? The brother who did not finish HS lives out of other people's houses and barely makes enough to feed and clothe himself. (He is now 29 and most of this is just plain being lazy. ) My other brother has been reasonably successful, but has hit the roof many times as he does not have the college degree needed to take him to the next level. (If you could do it on his own that wouldn't be an issue, but most companies don't higher managers without management experience and a degree.)

For myself, it has not been an easy row to hoe either. But, the issues I face in the work force are different than either of my brothers. I am competing agains folks with MBA's for positions and credibility. Sometimes it seems as if there is just no end to the amount of 'official' education somebody wants to see, versus practical experience. I guess my point is that there is not a "easy" road reagardless of which path is taken. The question is how many doors do you want to be able to choose from? With every certification (GED, Diploma, Degree) you get more keys that ultimately will open more doors of opportunity. You don't have to use them, but they are there if you need them.

My wife on the other hand has her GED and is making a great living. But it has taken her years of very hardwork to get there and she is "exceptional" (IMHO [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] ) at what she does.

Encourage your son to look at life for what it is. Everything is an investment. Your time, money and attention are being invested regardless of whether or not you realize it. Make sure he is investing in things that will return the life that he wants. He has invested 3 years in HS, what's another year and $500? Not much when you think about how much he will be wasting by not finishing (opportunity costs).

Best wishes to you and your son.

[Paddlefish]

No contest. Go for the diploma.

My son just received his GED. After four years of high school, some summer school and additional classes, special school district supplied tutors and school psychologists, etc. Heck, I spent far more time with his high school counselor than I ever did with my own!

"Smart kid. A pleasure to have in class. Just doesn't do the required work."

He breezed through the GED exams with ease, but is having trouble even finding an entry level job -- that "foot in the door" which might enable him to prove his value.

And, for the record, only the Army will accept GEDs right now. The Navy, Air Force, and Marines won't touch them. We checked.

[jokester]

I agree with those who say go for the diploma. As earlier stated, it shouldn't matter between the two, but in all reality, IT DOES! That $500 is money well spent IMHO. This is coming from a young lad of only 23 also! I don't think i'd be where I am now without that diploma! :grin:

-jokester

[happybrew]

Besides what the others have said, if his competition for a job have diplomas, and he doesn't, they'll get the job. Competition is stiff right now.

happybrew

[1 Smart Fish]

Diploma is much better then a G.E.D.

[corkyking]

A HS diploma and a GED are equally valuable or worthless, depending on your point of view, in today's job market. If you're going to work at a job like logging, fishing or many of the trades then either will say something about your willingness to see a project through.

If you don't have connections, money or a large talent and you want to have your choice of work and decisions about the future then you must continue your education and pursue meaningful courses. Employers need to be impressed and you'll have to do what impresses them.

After the foregoing blather here is my advice: You can get into a JC with a GED so spend your money there because an employer wont care about about an HS diploma if he sees a college diploma. If you are going to be a fisherman or a hod-carrier stick your money in a bank and save a little every month.

[kayakfisher]

No contest...a diploma is far more worthwhile than a GED. And going back now and making his grades better, even if it is 520 is very very worthwhile.

I second the college issue...it is more important now than ever, and becomes more so every year. College is more than training for a job...it is part of learning how to think, it is a chance to meet people from all over the world that will make a difference in the world's big picture. It is a chance to learn how to make a difference yourself, and to expand your view of the world.

I paid for most of my college with minimum wage work, and I cannot think of a better reason to do minimum wage work. It is also a time of your life to learn how to get along with very little...a skill well worth knowing so if you loose all the material pocessions you own someday it is easy to remember how unimportant they really were.

M.

[Eric W.]

Here is the deal......I used to work with youth as a youth pastor, and constantly came up to this problem. I remember one kid that was banging his head against the wall in high school, getting bad grades, and overall he wasn't bad, but he kids @ school were draggin him down. He went to the community college got a GED. It totally changed him. His self esteem went up, cuz instead of failing, he was passing. He was now hanging with college students, and seeing that there is more to life than High school. The college actually gave him a few credits to start off his college career. Last time I checked he was still going to college working on his degree.


If you are hammering in a nail and you keep pounding your thumb, then move your thumb. Take a differnt approach @ your problem!!!

[foxer]

Go for the Diploma. Keeper, if you can afford it how about offering to pay half after he graduates? Also, make sure he knows about today's job market and the benefits of a college degree. I wish that my parents had pushed me a little harder to go to college. Although I am currently happy in my current job, it would have gave me many more options.

[Gus Orviston]

Lot's of good things to ponder, 500 bucks is small price for the right choice. On the other hand stopping your education at HS is a risky choice. IMO, GED is okay, if it is eclipsed with an associates at least. Time on the PCC campus might be inspiring while finishing off the GED. ??

gus

[reeldick]

I did some hiring in Oregon for an international company. When we looked at non-degreed persons, the only hiring we did was with HS diploma and when they showed they were continuing with their education at night, weekends, or on the internet.

[Keeper]

I want to say thank you to everyone that responded. My son tried to post last night but it kept giving him the page expired message.

I should have mentioned one additional piece of information...as soon as he had the GED he was enrolling in college classes and wants to be a Civil Engineer.

His Grandparents and I have both offered to pay for these courses and were told "no, my mistake, I pay for it". He also plans on paying for college himself.

We did receive a suggestion that neither one of us had considered...transfer districts! Find one that is on Trimester schedule and offers credit recovery during regular hours. His social life would take a hit but he thought it would be worth it to walk in 2005

Once again thank you to everyone that responded [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

[roundtuit97128]

Reality Check- US Military is not currently accepting applicants w/o HS Diploma. GED=Bye-Bye!

First Area of concern--Hey Dad, What's more important to you, Junior's education, or his job, Diver's License, Love Life...

Each HS in Oregon offers a self-paced Transition Program using either stand-alone packets, or an on-line computer bases system called STARS (Student Testing And Remedial System). All ESD's (Educational Service Districts) also have alternative Education classwork which crosses directly to local HS credits.

Remove juniors distractions--force compliance and don't threaten to boot him out (Chances are he'll never complete his diploma reqmts if he's not under your roof!) Accept nothing other than forward progress!! he can enroll in HS next year as a "Super Senior" and have only these Transition Classes and no others.

Have a meeting with the HS Counselor (With Junior there) Lay no blame! Rather, how do we get from point A to Point B.

Yes, I faced the stuff as a Single Parent... Yes, I went through all the above steps (With my youngest son)...
And yes, he got his HS Diploma at age 19 (+ 3 months) His "Ceremony was the Principal, Junior's older brother and I.
Lastly, according to junior, "Yes, it was worth every bit of effort!"

You wouldn't accept less from an stranger who worked for you, why tolerate it from your kid.

Don't loose sight of your goal and limit distractions--and in closing realize whether he does now or not, the tassle is worth the hassle!

[Keeper]

Sorry RT but I think you missed something in my posts.

He isn't a bad kid who screws around. He is a kid who messed up during his freshman year by thinking as long as he aced the tests and showed up everyday he didn't need to do his homework. He failed freshman english and now has to utilize credit recovery to make it up. The math credits are progressive...but here is something interesting...he has passed AlgebraI twice, but they will not advance him to the next level because his grade wasn't a B or better. So he is taking it again this year?!

No distractions. His social life doesn't extend past school hours. His weekday evenings are spent working a job that pays $8.50 an hour. He owns his truck; paid for it himself. He also pays for his insurance and cell phone.

My son is 17; he doesn't need to be controlled only gently guided.

One more thing...I am his Mom. :grin:

[roundtuit97128]

Sorry "Mom," I didn't mean to insinuate that your young-un isn't a good kid. And really good parents do have to deal with really good kids too.
I guess my point is that I've seen too many parents flail themselves and get frustrated at one another over kids issues.
I am retired military guy who did have to deal with kids who were good, bad and indifferent. Yet, was amazed at how many fine upstanding pillars of the command/community had the same issues as the rest of use with decent kids who lost their focus on school.
Hey it's great if you can reason with a kid who doesn't need to be controlled at 17. However, one who is considering dropping out does need to be controlled and redirected towards graduation.
I saw in some of the postings a youngster who does want to stand on his own, "I got myself into this mess, I'll get myself out..." BS Mom, we're still parents and should intervene when it's our role to. Credit Recovery should be the ticket and is part of the Transition Program the HS's offer... PS I'll bet he's req'd to have x number of English Credits and can take another English Class in the spring rather than an elective.
Also, I was a kid working at a low paying job in HS too. I worked, so I could afford my vehicle, so I could drive to work, so I could drive to school... My point is, work is inevitable, School is here and now and that should be his/your priority.

[WaterDog]

I’ve been sitting back kinda “listening” to this discussion. I kinda screwed up when I was in school (jr high) and by the time the light bulb came on I was in my Sophomore year. I guess the “old man’s” rants finally sunk in. :tongue: I figured out if I wanted a boat and wanted to have money to fish I needed to go to college. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] When I registered for my Junior classes I talked to a councilor and took what we thought I needed to get semi “up to speed”. Ended up skipping a few steps to get there. Got to Community College and realized what a joke high school was and wished I’d just quit HS and got my GED so I could start college sooner. Community College was a real eye opener for me. :shocked: Hindsight is 20/20. Ended up taking 5 years and a term to get my 4 year degree because I didn’t have the math skills I needed when I started but it all worked out.

I did much better in a college setting than HS. If he has the fortitude to do it and will stick with it, then I say let him get a GED as long he continues his education. I know my Civil Engineering degree has serveed me well. :smile:

[ 02-05-2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: WaterDog ]

[Wreckless]

Hey Keeper, you "Springer Magnet"!! I know you are a good mom and he's a good kid. At 17 all you can REALLY do is "coach", THEY play the game.

GED or Diploma I know he'll be OK.
Did "the kid" see waterdogs post.....Ironic the he's got a civil engineering degree...hmmmmmmmmmmm. Makes ya think.

P.S. DON'T CROSS THIS WOMEN, HER SPRINGER HEX IS A KILLER!!! [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]