auto: lease new vs. buy used

[lost_sailor]

Anybody lease their car?

It looks like it's car time :depressed:

Seems like the difference is ending up with an old car (buy) or nothing (lease). But no worrys on repairs with the lease.

:whazzup: [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Considering the lease, talk me out of it/talk me into it.

Can't afford to buy new.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Fun part of a lease is returning the vehicle only to have them pick it apart should you incure the slightest of damage like door dings, scuffs or if you pick a shop to do any body repairs and they do a crappy job. Beware of the charge offs that come with leases. Also at the end of the lease you own nothing period except the debt you incured during the lease. Purchasing a car in my opinion is a better deal and for up to three year old cars through Portland Teachers you can get a 3.33 percent financing for 100 percent should you not have the spare change around to purchase the next lost sailor mobile.

You know the drill, buy what you can afford and stay within your means. Hope this made some sense.

[Thumper]

Find a great used one, preferably Japanese, and count your money as it piles up over the years. I once had a fleet of courier vehicles, both 2 and 4-wheel drive, totalling 72 vehicles over the years. All were Nissans and Toyotas, and they got replaced after 250,000 miles, never before.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

I would never lease a car. With the deals out there right now I would think that it would be cheaper to buy than lease. Some of those lease payments are pretty high. And it harder to lease a car than to buy one. There is nothing wrong with a good quality used car.

I had a friend that leased on of those Audi TT coupe's. It was a nice car but not very practical for an only car. As far as repairs go, he had it in the shop 7 or 8 times for the same problem and they never fixed it. And to top it off, they washed it one time and it looked like somebody rubbed sand all over the car. It was all scratched up. They never did anything about that either. Those TT's look nice but they are not very comfortable. Anyway after a year my friend just had to get a new Jeep. So he broke his lease and it cost him thousands.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Jack is right about Toyota. Stack the miles on them and they are hard to kill. Especially the little corollas. The simpler the better if you are just looking for utility. The more comfort the more problems. Toyota holds value better than nissan too. And don't forget that nissan is now owned by Renault (no insult intended toward the french thank you) which I have never ever cared for. Nissans are decent but do not retain value as well.

Do not buy a honda unless you want to spend a lot of time looking for it. Most stolen car around especially in this area. Good luck and let us know what you purchase (hopefully purchase, not lease).

[OceanBlue]

I'll never lease again.

[skahorse]

Alot of Anti-Leasers here...

To me it seems (I've never actually leased) like a win-win situation. Basically, i would base it on how long you wish to keep the car. If you are a person that has high "car-turnaround" then definitely lease. If you plan on keeping for longer than say, 3 years, Buy.

The nice thing about the lease is you can keep moving from car to car without incurring debt between each car. Whereas, if you buy a car and sell it 2 years later, you will lose your butt in depreciation.

--Skahorse

[salmurai]

They say "lease" but what they actually mean is "fleece". IMHO. Lease is a good way to go if you want to spend thousands of dollars more for a vehicle. Might be OK if you have the correct write-offs. JMO.

[foxer]

leasing is good for those that dont drive over the alloted limit and want a new car every 2-4years. If you shop wisely, leases are great. Look for those with little or no money down, and a low payment. I leased a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 a while back. Before I turned it in, I had it detailed (less than 75.00). The guy looked at the mileage, and didnt say boo about a couple door dings etc. He said they (the dealer) didnt own the truck, Toyota did. As long as the truck wasnt visibly thrashed, they didnt care.

[Cool Texan]

With rates so low, leasing really doesnt make much sense.

Buy used...pre-owned certified is even better. My wife and I did it and got a great deal on our newest car.

[OceanBlue]

Check the rates, though. When I bought my Subaru last year, I found that buying used would cost more in the long run than a new Subaru!

[CATCH AND EAT]

The way I understand it at least through Portland Teachers they will loan for the same 3.33 percent on cars up to 2 or 3 years old. At least that is what the young lady inferred to when I was financing my truck in December. Take that for what it's worth but do your research for the best deal out there.

[Otolith]

I've leased, I'm currently in a lease, and I will lease again. All this stuff about gettting "fleeced", etc. seems to come from people with no experience in the matter. If you are the type that likes a car that is always under warranty, you like to have a new car every 3 years, and you don't mind having a perpetual car payment that is always much lower than if you bought new, then leasing is a good option.

The only gotcha I encountered is that if you get a chip in your windshield, they require you to replace the windshield -- no repairs. Only problem is that insurance won't usually pay for a replacement if it can be repaired. Solution -- near the end of your lease if you have any windshield chips, make sure they spread into cracks and then call mr. insurance agent :grin:

Other than that, get insurance with a very low deductible so you can cheaply fix any fender-bender type of stuff. Scratches and minor dings are considered normal wear and tear, but actual dents and creases you need to fix. You can also pay a little extra for more miles in advance. I get 15,000 miles a year instead of 12,000, and I've not come close to going over - and that included moving across the country a few years ago.

Do some web research on how leases work and how they set the monthly payment. One tip I can give is go into the dealership to buy a car, and only tell them you want to lease after you have negotiated the lowest purchase price possible, because it is used in the payment calculation. Otherwise the salesmen tries to focus your attention on the very reasonable low monthly payment, so you don't notice that the purchase price used to calculate it is much higher than you would actually buy the car for.

[CATCH AND EAT]

On the contrary Bill, I have had a lot of experience with this and the rail yard for lease return vehicle through rental car agencies. Those suckers out there are ruthless trolls that will nit-pick the slightest imperfection and charge it back to the client. You have been lucky so far Bill. Just my experience with leases and returns so my points are valid and true.

[Otolith]

I believe you Bernie. When I started looking into leasing I got alot of the doom and gloom stories from people, but when I asked, none of them had actually leased before. They just "heard" thats how it was. (I got the same stuff when I owned an MGB about their propensity to break down - again from people that never owned or worked on one, yet it alwasy ran like a champ for me )

Maybe it all depends on the attitude of the inspector they send out when the lease is up?

I know the restricted miles thing has definitely not been a problem for me, and I drive the thing 40 miles round trip everyday, plus frequent road trips. I take a little extra care to keep it cleaner than I do on the car I own. And when I had minor accident, I had it fixed. Its worked so far for me.

[Lured In]

Here are a few thoughts to add to the above...

1. Buying a 1-3 year old vehicle, much of the depreciation has happened. These are usually still under factory warranty such as 3 years or 36K miles. If so, you can buy an extended warranty like 6 years, 100K miles for a minor uplift. (I payed $700 for this on my last purchase.) Find a vehicle with low miles like under 25K for a 2-year old vehicle and you will be in good shape. This takes care of much of the repair cost issues that you would benefit from in a lease.

2. When you finish paying off your vehicle, not only do you have a vehcicle still, you also have a down payment on your next one. If you picked a good vehicle to begin with and took care of it, you may actually be able to sell it for more than the average.

3. If you buy and you run into financial trouble, you can usually dump the vehicle for what you owe on it. Used vehicle payments usually run 1:1 with market depreciation. This is especially true if you can get a good deal to begin with like buying below blue book. With a lease, you may run into early termination fees.

4. Used vehicle loan rates are WAY LOW right now from almost any lender. Shop around and I bet you could find one for under 5% without too much effort.

Good luck!

[CATCH AND EAT]

I'm sure you've seen these T-shirts that say I'd rather push a Triumph and drive an MG. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] Just bustin yer chops a bit.

Glad to hear you have had positive experiences with your leases Bill. Some folks do have the same experience as you and are perfectly happy doing it. Glad you are one of them.

[Silver Hilton]

Leases are convenient and the shift risk from the buyer to the leaseholder. You pay for that convenience and risk shifting. I prefer not to. But then, I don't even like borrowing.

[Moley Molson]

I leased a 99 Chevy S10 pickup ZR2 ext cab for three years. Price of truck was 25,700. After three years of leasing I still owed 16,800, or somewhere around there. The truck is in superb condition inside and out, + a few extra bonus items I installed, such as nerf bars, pro-tech tool box, quality audio system, etc. It had 71,000 miles on it after three years, so granted I was way over my alloted 36,000 miles, so that didn't help matters. Well when I took it back, they said they could give 10,000 trade in for it, which couldn't get me into another truck for a decent monthly payment.....I don't really remember all the details as far as why, they talk to fast for me, I just remember the bottom line being that the monthly payment on a new truck would have been in excess of 500, which was way to much when I had been paying 340. Plus I would have had to come up with around 6000 cash down. So I ended up financing my old truck for the amount i still owed instead of stepping into a new one. I just felt really stuck. But like I said, my mileage really hurt.

Now my dad on the other hand has been leasing new trucks every couple of years now for a while....he never drives anywhere, so his mileage is always way below average, and the truck looks like it never left the lot. He just goes back to the dealership, pics out a comparable new truck, and gives them the first monthly payment, and basically trades keys with the dealership. So if you don't mind "ALWAYS" having a car payment every month, keep your mileage down, and keep it in top notch shape...leasing could be for you. :smile:

[lost_sailor]

Thanks for the comments. I can barely afford lunch ...

Seems like you need "disposable income" to make all those payments and end up with - spit!

We tend to drive our cars until they're nearly worthless. Anyone want a '93 Explorer, just needs a new head gasket ... oh and the 4X4 doesn't work ???
Only 154000 miles!

Mrs. wants a minivan again, I guess that's going to make sense for 3 or 4 more years. Looking at the Honda Odyssey. Hope I'm getting a tax refund. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[fishonksm]

Leasing is not a good thing unless it’s for a business. We drive our rigs into the ground and the tires are falling off. Today we just replaced our 1990 mini van with 214K miles for a 03-explorer rental return with 15K miles for $9K off MSRP.

[skahorse]

Well when I took it back, they said they could give 10,000 trade in for it, which couldn't get me into another truck for a decent monthly payment.....I don't really remember all the details as far as why, they talk to fast for me

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I think alot of the negative comments are due to the fact that people don't understand how lease work, and in particular how they work for you.

Moley, it sounds like your dealer was trying to take advantage of you. You could have easily left the car there, and just walked away. You were'nt stuck one bit.

--Skahorse

[willametteriveroutlaw]

My advice to anyone leasing is to buy a vehicle w/ a high resale value, (not an s10, taurus, etc) because many times there will be equity built up at the end of the lease (hence down payment for another vehicle)

[Otolith]

Originally posted by skahorse:
I think alot of the negative comments are due to the fact that people don't understand how lease work, and in particular how they work for you.

Moley, it sounds like your dealer was trying to take advantage of you. You could have easily left the car there, and just walked away. You were'nt stuck one bit.

--Skahorse

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">If you go 35,000 miles over the alloted amount :shocked: , or you have more than normal wear and tear (you wrecked it and didn't fix it), you either have to buy it or pay the dealer for your miles/damage. Now if you follow the rules, you can just walk away from it regardless of whether the car is actually worth less than was predicted at the beginning of your lease. In fact, some leases will let you have equity in the car in the end if the appraised value is actually higher than what was predicted at the outset - and you can use this as a down on your next lease or purchase it (or you could sell privately, pay off the dealer, and pocket the profit).

But you are right, you have to understand how a lease works before you get in one. It does not make sense to lease a car for three years and then finance the remainder. You will pay too much.

It is very simple, and many have alluded to it here:
1) If you are the type itching to trade in your car every 3 years (when you would normally be upside down on a purchased vehicle)
2) If you drive a normal amount of miles a year (12 to 15 thousand)
3) If you would rather have a 300 a month payment than a 500 a month payment, and expect a car payment to be like a mortgage - you will always have one
4) If you take reasonable care of your vehicles (ie. you don't put cigs out on the upholstery and you), are willing to carry insurance with a low deductible, and thus can have insurance fix it after any accidents, no matter how small

Then leasing is for you. Otherwise, buy a car.

[foxer]

Dont trade at the end of the lease. If you dont want to lease again, turn in the car, say "later dude" and go buy an ad car at 5k below invoice. They hate that. ok, your getting the 03 f150 for 24k, what do you have to trade? nothing? how about financing? oh, your going through your credit union? Darn, I only made $100 on the deal.....still takes 3hrs to get out of the darn place

[ 01-30-2004, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: foxer ]

[salmurai]

I too, have leased, therefore I know! (a little) but I know that I never will lease again. If I had a lot of money and could afford a perpetual car payment, I guess I would just pay cash and forget about it.

[Lwagg2]

my wife leased a corolla before we gotogether and we finally got outta the lease and basically she rented the car had no equity in it and did not use it enough to actually warrent the lease cost us a fortune when i figured out how much a month it cost us $300 a month or 33 cents a mile to rent it. we go zero trade on it but she is now buying a car and is way happier. if your gonna use it for work then great if your gonna use it for personal DONT DO IT
my opinion

[Moley Molson]

I'll never lease again....3 years of leasing, and I can't get out of the truck without leasing another one....or bend over and let them apply some sand to my ... while they....well you get the picture.

Basically, I owe $7000 more than what they would give me for trade in value....and owe about $4000 more than high kelly blue book.

[Otolith]

Originally posted by Moley Molson:
I'll never lease again....3 years of leasing, and I can't get out of the truck without leasing another one....or bend over and let them apply some sand to my ... while they....well you get the picture.

Basically, I owe $7000 more than what they would give me for trade in value....and owe about $4000 more than high kelly blue book.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Please give details. Did you do 7000$ worth of damage to the car and not fix it? Did you go over miles by 7000$?

If you leased a car for 3 years, and those 3 years are up, and you returned the car in a condition that reflects 3 years worth of wear and tear, how can you owe $7000? Maybe you need a lawyer, or maybe there is more to the story than you are telling.

[ 01-30-2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Otolith ]

[Moley Molson]

I was kinda stuck....like otolith mentioned...I would have had to come up with the money I owed for going over the alloted mileage...which would have been just about $4000.

At the time I leased it I was only working 2 miles from my house so I thought I would stay within the alloted mileage....but then I got a better job offer which increased my commute to 60 miles round trip from just 4. The mileage racked up a little faster than I had previously thought about.