Best ecomony in 20 years???

[El-Kabong]

nice try Keta, but Bush is the president so it's his recession now, (you spend a lot of time Clinton/Gore hating don't you?.

It would be pleasantly refreshing if the current administration would take responsibility for things that happen rather then simply blaming others.

if he is able to restore the 2+ million jobs lost under his watch then this might be a great economy.

Earth to ....
Just when did the Clinton/Gore Depression start? I'll help you out, it was long before Bush was elected. It takes many years to turn an economy aroung.

Who illegally voided the timber contracts in SE Alaska closing the mills and putting thousands out of work? Another hint, it was before Bush was elected.

PS;
It would be nice if the current administration would recognize all of us "statistically employed" (out of benefits) citizens

[ 01-22-2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[corkyking]

Just saw an add that explains a lot. The fella is riding around on his lawn mower mowing his big lawn at his big house, two kids and a wife, boat at the marina, just back from vacation, yada yada and his line is:
“How do I do it? – I’m in debt up to my eyeballs!”

Keta – “The Clinton/Gore depression?”-Hmmm.
“The extreme environmental movement”-True that jobs have gone overseas because it’s easier to pollute there. But they have gone primarily because it’s cheaper. In the present day ”free” enterprise system, the bottom line is the bottom line.
Raving, fierce “patriots” will defend to the end the right of American corporations to abandon their country’s interests in favor of profit. I believe that corporations, due to, what I believe to be, their citizen status should be held in the same regard as anyone who would abandon their country’s interests.
Corporation:
A body politic or corporate, formed and authorized by law to act as a single person, and endowed by law with the capacity of succession; a society having the capacity of transacting business as an individual.
Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law

Hare’s Ear – Thank you for the words of encouragement. I agree with you about the last 17 years. It seems that these “news” programs are more interested with currying favor with the folks in power than accurate reporting.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Originally posted by corkyking:
Just saw an add that explains a lot. The fella is riding around on his lawn mower mowing his big lawn at his big house, two kids and a wife, boat at the marina, just back from vacation, yada yada and his line is:
“How do I do it? – I’m in debt up to my eyeballs!”

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Ding ding ding. Somebody get this guy a prize. Spend spend spend, then blame somebody else when you run out.....it's the new American way.....

[El-Kabong]

Originally posted by Keta:
Earth to ....
Just when did the Clinton/Gore Depression start? I'll help you out, it was long before Bush was elected.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">your facts are not correct. may I suggest that you check them first.

[ 01-22-2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: El-Kabong ]

It started in the last months of the Clinton administration. It wasn't "Official" until March '01. It really started earlier but the economy was kept up by the criminal behavior of companies like Enron and Global Crossing. In rural and small town America it started much earlier.

[ 01-22-2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

I think this economy sucks right now. It has improved slightly and I can see it turning the corner but that does not mount to a hill of beans with the lack of job creation. The Rogue is correct by pointing out that more and more companies are moving the manufacturing portion out of nation where there is cheap labor to be had.

Funny this came up as just this morning Dad and I were talking about this very thing. What a huge diservice American corporations have done to our country by taking production else where. Should never have been allowed. And a certain amount of diservice has been done by labor unions with demands for wage compensation well above what many of the jobs are worth. Can't blame business or labor for wanting to make a buck but very soon we will be a completely dependant country instead of an independant country.

My feeling is that American will not continue it's prosperous past by trading jobs for imported goods. We will be left in the dust if we do not shape up, straighten up and bring those jobs back to the States.

It makes me sick to drive through Longview and see all that timber being shipped down river to foreign countries only to be processed and returned here as goods. I think it is a crime and there should be a way to reverse these trade agreements or punish companies that leave the country or sublet the manufacturing to foreign soil.

I could rant on an on regarding free trade even within my own industry and insurance companies we deal with. Do ya hate preferred provider medicine especially when your doctor is not on "THE LIST"? Or a repair shop of your choice is not on "THE LIST" or your medication is not on the dang list. Well until this country quits thinking BASS ACWARDS the continued decline will drain valuable jobs from our Nation. Now there something you better start thinking about getting patriotic about.

[DanS]

What a huge diservice American corporations have done to our country by taking production else where. Should never have been allowed

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">It's not the corporations..........

It's not the government..........

It's the consumer.

[2LEYS]

My biggest bonus ever will be in the bank in the morning, and I am expecting a raise of at least 15% next month. I will get another large bonus in 2 weeks. My company had a record quarter. The difference is that the economy is real this time. It is not based on an extremely overvalued stock market.

[ 01-22-2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: 2LEYS ]

[ampersat]

"If you build it, they will come."

I just don't see it. It seems to me that they're saying it in hopes that we'll believe it and that once we believe it, it will become true.

Hey 2Leys: got any openings at your company?

[WheresMyBobber]

One only need look at the stock market performance since World War 2. The third year of almost any Presidency since then has been great for the market (in excess of 12%). The fourth year has been good, but less stellar than the previous year.

[ 01-23-2004, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: WheresMyBobber ]

[corkyking]

I heard on one of these radio talk shows (quoting the gov’t) a couple of days ago that this is the best economy in the last 20 years.
It doesn’t seem that way to me. I don’t feel any enthusiasm or certainty of that assertion anywhere around me.
I see instead people on the edge hoping that the economy will turn around for them because they wont be able to absorb another financial hit. I instead hear them wondering when the next bad news will occur. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
During the 60’s and especially the 70’s there was great enthusiasm and in the 90’s everyone around me was positive and believed that things were going to be better.
If this is the best economy in the last 20 years then where is the ordinary man’s belief that it is true. Without that belief it will not sustain.
Do you see it?

[TheRogue]

Different measurements of "best economy".

There's little doubt that productivity is up, and companies' bottom lines are up. Unfortunately, this is NOT translating to increased hiring.

Good or bad thing? I don't have the knowledge to know, myself. Sure seems like the booming business would mean more jobs...but part of that boom is companies sending more work overseas into the cheap labor pool.

TR

[Hare's Ear]

I can definitly tell you that this is not the best economy in the last 17 years - that's how long I've been a CPA. But I can say that me, my partners, and our employees have seen a big upswing in client optimisim over the past six months. This comes from conversations with clients and a noticable increase in consulting work. For the past two years many clients have put off plans for expansion, equipment acquisitions, new bank financing, etc. These things all generate consulting work for our firm and there has been a large uptick since last July.

The problem, as mentioned already, is that this uptick has not necessarily meant an increase in hiring. Gains in productivity and a fear of being caught overstaffed still have a lot of clients edgy about doing a lot of hiring.

The Clinton/Gore depression has hit rural and small town America hard.

The extreme environmental movement hasn’t helped either. In the past I could always find work at the pulpmill, now the foundation is all that's left.

[Buck50]

Catch and Eat, you got it!
By the way what's going to happen to our economy if gas hits three bucks a gallon this summer as predicted? I work in the transportation industry and it has us scared to death. Customers arn't going to take being hit with the rate increases that future fuel costs are going to warrent.

[Thumper]

No one has said that the economy is the best in 20 years. Certain economic indicators (housing starts, productivity, etc.) have improved for the most recent quarter at a rate that is the best percentage improvement in 20 years. But the economy is far from "the best in 20 years". Hopefully everyone can see the difference in the two statements.

The economy is indeed improving. But due to the huge productivity gains of the last two years new jobs are lagging other economic indicators. When corporations get really productive, they don't need as many employees to produce increasing product outputs.

It is a worldwide economy. Goods and services will be purchased from the lowest-cost provider, regardless of country of origin. Look around. I just bought a pretty good home sound system for under $2,000. I paid that much for the receiver alone in the 1970s. I just put a CD player/AM/FM radio in my SUV for $235. I paid that much for a CD unit alone a few years ago. Similar examples can be given for about any high-tech product. In terms of value, the consumer is king.

There's no way to roll the clock back. None.

[freespool]

Buck50,if what you say is true,we will see a new administration come next January.

salmon hugger

[anger management]

Best economy in 20 years.

[foxer]

Jobs are the very last thing to recover coming out of recession. Wait until spring/summer to decide which way. There were something like 150k new jobs for 2 months straight before the last report of only 1k..

[garyk]

NO.

The 'economy' afterall comes down to people. And the most telling statistic is that personal debt (excluding mortgage debt) is at an all time high - and climbing.

I could hardly believe the number - I think it was around $15,000 for the average American family.

When you consider that a lot of this debt is floating on high-interest credit cards, (and carrying a large balance) it's a bad thing for many, many Americans.

[speyfly]

Foxer, I read something the other day stating that while we have had some job recovery in the last few months, the average pay for jobs lost over the last three years was around $17/hour and the average pay for jobs gained over the last quarter was around $14/hour. Now you add in the cost of living, anyway you want to slice it we’re going backwards. Yeah we have had some tax relief on the Federal end but the states are increasing local taxes to make up for budget shortfalls. Shifting the tax burden is the plan is and it's not lookin good!

[Clackman]

i think considering the things that have happened over the last few years we have a great economy and the reccesion was started under clinton gore their is no question.things are going very well but you dont here that from the doom and gloom media with an agenda