Kids these days.....

TundraIII · 01-21-2004, 06:51 AM

Thanks for your comments. I lived in the worst neighboorhood in Keizer before moving to Aloha. Never had a single problem in Keizer in the 3 yrs I lived there. I have lived in Aloha for the past 4yrs now and have had my vehicles broken into 4 times. I have also had one truck stolen and a brand new motorcycle stolen. Then this kid comes along and decides he can wreck my stuff. Totally fed up with this kind of thing and find it difficult not to get upset about it. I now watch my property and my neighboorhood like a hawk. It's amazing how many people out there find absolutely no difficulty in taking something that you worked hard for. It helps to know that most people who posted replies to this topic would have or have responded similarly when confronted with this kind of thing. Most likely because I'm not the only one who as experienced these kind of problems.

[ 01-23-2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: TundraIII ]

01-21-2004, 07:14 AM

I have one of these living down the road. This little darling (10) flips people off when they drive down the road and is always yelling obscenities at cars. He gets out into the road and walks down the center slowly to cause problems. He�s been caught steeling and vandalizing peoples property several times. He knocked down another kid and pulled his pants off and stuck his underwear into the suction pipe of my irrigation pump. He is always smashing toys and tossing them, and garbage, into the irrigation ditches. He and another goblin took a hammer to the neighbor�s house and did over $10,000 in damage, they also knocked down their fence. His father is a meth head tweeker and, when confronted, says his son is the only "good kid" in the area clams he didn't do it.

Straydog · 01-21-2004, 07:25 AM

So, the message to the kid on the bike is that if someone is doing something dumb and making mistakes, the "responsible", adult way to handle it is to come out yelling, cussing and threatening.

Kids are no better than that which they are taught by adults. You just taught the wrong lesson, in my opinion.

Maybe the kid is like the one Keta describes and well on his way to a criminal life and living off of us. Or, maybe he was a decent kid really into his biking and didn't stop to think about the harm he was causing you and your hard work.

Might a civil, respectful approach been more productive than a degrading, fear invoking approach? I don't know, nor do you or he, evidently.

OceanBlue · 01-21-2004, 07:50 AM

Tundra - you were born in the wrong time... had you been born in a different era, you wouldn't be concerned with the ability to kick any kid's behind. In a different era, kids would have respect and not behave the way that kid did.

My son is 16. I would give permission to any adult to kick his butt if he behaved this way outside of my presence!

[ 01-21-2004, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: OceanBlue ]

lost_sailor · 01-21-2004, 08:00 AM

well ... there is something to be said about asking nicely the first time, instead of charging out cussing and yelling ...

It might have worked. Now you'll never know.

Lured In · 01-21-2004, 08:08 AM

Stray..I agree that calm is good, but I will NEVER dismiss another's responsibility for knowing what is right or wrong. Tresspassing or vandalism are legitimate issues and this kid likely knew better. If he didn't he does now.

I am constantly reminding my kids to respect our neighbors property. Kids tend to focus on what they want to do, not just what's right.

Fortunately we have some awesome neighbors and share similar parenting mentalites. If we see our kids or our neighbors kids misbehaving, we all work together to keep it civil and keep the kids doing the right thing.

Straydog · 01-21-2004, 08:34 AM

I agree, we live in a much different world today.

Those of us in middle age might remember when there was still sanctity in marriage. Then the Fed. Gov. decided divorce needed to be easy and not looked down upon. (the gays cannot destroy the sanctity of marriage, it has already been destroyed)

In our day, we knew both of our parents and it was an embarassment to have them be divorced. It is the norm today. Parents knew it was not to be easy and stayed together and made it work. But that was too hard and we always want the easy way out. (and yes, I have been divorced)

Some might remember when there were no meth heads.

It was highly unusual to hear of someone beating their wives, kids or elderly parents.

In our day, a spanking rarely resulted in death or permanant damage to a kid.

Little kids were not shaken to death because they cried and mom's boyfriend was fried on crank and freaked out.

Kids rarely showed up at hospitals with cracked skulls from a "fall from the couch".

The list can go on and on but the fact is we do live in a much different world and to think we can react to this new world in the old world ways is not practical, nor effective.

[ 01-21-2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Beefcake · 01-21-2004, 08:38 AM

I have similar frustrations. We just had a house built in a seemingly nice, quiet neighborhood with many kids for ours to play with. Just before the house was completed, one of the neighbor kids rode his bike the entire length of our freshly poured sidewalk. The city finalled the permit, so it is officially public property now, and neither the city nor the builder is technically liable to repair it. We know which kid it is, but his family has enough financial trouble (Dad just out of jail and unemployed), so no point in harrassing them to pay for it; I just get to look at it for the next 20 years! Also, the same kid got arrested for vandalism last month - tearing all of the Christmas lights off neighbor's houses and busting up a retaining wall.

It is obvious to most of us that the upcoming generation has been damaged by the common "missing parent" families and lack of religion / morality, but there is another issue that I have never heard discussed. The upcoming generation is also victim of the Dr. Spock theories of "don't punish them; reason with them." From personal experience with my girlfriend's kids, I think a lot of well-meaning and devoted parents were sold a bill of goods and are now paying for it. My girlfriend and her ex-husband were (and still are) very devoted parents who live and breathe through their kids, but the kids seemingly have no moral values and no respect for authority or fear of punishment. I firmly believe that corporal punishment at an early age sets the stage for respecting authority (if used properly), but there is no way to instate it later. We would have all been better off if Spock had remained a fictional character with pointy ears! :depressed:

TundraIII · 01-21-2004, 08:55 AM

You know what happens when you nicely ask some punk to stop smashing the plants in you front yard? He figures that he just had a good time and there was no penalty for it. Then he moves down the road and trashes someone elses property, learning little. This kid now knows that I will not put up with having my property damaged and that I will defend it. I dont subscibe to the PC or Liberal point of view on this. I'm about as far Right as a person can get. My wife and I work hard for what little we have and asking nicely for a kid to go away after he has vandalized my property, I find that ridiculous. The kid knew what he was doing because he was looking up at the house to see if anyone was home and watching him. The next time he tries it I will hold him down till the police get there. Kids these days could use a little fear of adults if you ask me, seems to be what is lacking.

[ 01-21-2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: TundraIII ]

ampersat · 01-21-2004, 09:14 AM

Hot glue some sharp glass to the top of the wall. That should put a stop to it. Use colored glass and claim that it's a decorative touch.

clearview2u · 01-21-2004, 09:22 AM

Tundra if the kid come around again grab the digital camara and take a quick shot of him. There are plenty of us in the Aloha area with teenagers who could help identify him. No one has the right to destroy your property. A good butt kicking would do him good.
toni

TundraIII · 01-21-2004, 09:53 AM

ampersat

A statement filled with wisdom and experience, I'm sure! Good idea except I am horribly forgetful and clumsy, I'd end up hurting myself. :grin:

[ 01-21-2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: TundraIII ]

Hoosier Daddy · 01-21-2004, 12:05 PM

Yeah, don't yell at him. You wouldn't want to wreck his already fragile little psyche.

Sorry, but when I was a kid, if I did something like that (by the way, I didn't, gee imagine that) and someone yelled at me, I'd have been way too sorry and embarassed to make a smart ass remark like "You can't talk to me like that. Ask me nicely." You can nicely kiss my butt.

Not my fault or yours that he didn't care to choose right from wrong. Maybe this is the kind of thing that happens when we leave raising our kids to the rest of the village, huh?

[ 01-21-2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

snowball · 01-21-2004, 01:36 PM

gotta give the kid credit for pulling off the bunny hop. I can understand your frustration though.

ORoutdoorsman · 01-21-2004, 01:57 PM

Tundra, people can say whatever they want about how you handled it. The kid is 16 yearsold and knows dang good and well what he was doing was not ok. ANd all coming out and asking nicely does is get you a F.U. If he is currently in the process of ruining your stuff, you had better get out there and yell to stop so he stops. All these people that think oh go out and be nice and be a diplomat don't know squat. Thats why punks turn out the way they do. If the kid is 16 years old, he is past his impressionable, going to learn from a guy being nice stage. If you actually look at the facts, all research shows that kids have develops the way they are going to act by 5 years old, and once you reach 8 years old, it takes severe measures to change the way thay act. Period. SO at 16 years old, you need to let that person old enough to drive a d### car,that it is not ok to do this kind of thing. Going out and being a sweetheart wont get the message accross. The time for being all nice and sweet about a kid ruing is your stuff has long since past. I could see if he were young, but the guy is 16 freakin years old! He knows he should not be doing it, and making it VERY clear to him is the only way you will stop it. This is'nt mayberry, and it wasn't oppie hoppin your stinkin wall. You handled it just fine.

Woody · 01-21-2004, 01:58 PM

Ask nicely!!!! ASK NICELY!!! You've got to be kidding.

"Oh please Johnny don't destroy my property. I know you don't understand that is not nice to wreck other peoples things. How about this; why don't we spend some tax dollars to build you a bike/skate park so you have some place to hang?"

Yeah, right.

Straydog:

Tundra: [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ 01-21-2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Woody ]

Chromaflage · 01-21-2004, 02:00 PM

Let the emasculation continue!

If the boy is going to stand in like a man, let him take his licks like a man. That's the core of the issue - that kid knew there was nothing that could be done to him...he's a minor. One word - discipline - it's a lost art.

What about the potential liability here. If that kid would have fallen off the wall and gotten seriously hurt....that's a viable law suit in the making. I'd be for screamin at the kid too.

My rant for the day. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

ORS

OceanBlue · 01-21-2004, 02:01 PM

Hey, Woody - there's a skate park (totally free) within 1 mile of Tundra's house!

There's a bike park about 2 miles in the other direction (not free)

Another bike park about 5 miles east and a place about 1/4 mi. north of where Tundra lives - both totally free (not official, but makeshift and fun from what the kids in my 'hood tell me)

So I'm right there with ya. The kid is not disadvantaged for things to do and appropriate places to do them.

[ 01-21-2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: OceanBlue ]

Woody · 01-21-2004, 02:04 PM

Watch out for the lawsuit for damaging the poor innocent little fella's psyche. How dare you infringe on his right to express his "art".

kamloops · 01-21-2004, 02:34 PM

[ 01-21-2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: kamloops ]

lost_sailor · 01-21-2004, 04:18 PM

I never meant you shouldn't tear into him the SECOND TIME! But if your first encounter is yelling and cussing ... that just makes you the _________ .

What would Jesus do?

Sturgeon · 01-21-2004, 04:32 PM

[ 01-21-2004, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Sturgeon ]

Sturgeon · 01-21-2004, 04:40 PM

[ 01-21-2004, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Sturgeon ]

STGRule · 01-21-2004, 04:53 PM

You guys are something else. Shoot him, beat him up, sic a dog on him. That would change his behavior I'm sure. You of course would all be in jail. And would deserve it.

I live up against a high school. I get to deal with the good kids and the cretans alike. After doing the screaming adult route, I started telling them why I didn't want them doing some of the lovely things they did and amazingly enough I got apologies and no more of those things happened. It�s amazing how the choice of words and the tone of voice works and how yelling obscenities and threats doesn't.

lost_sailor · 01-21-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sturgeon:
... is a total disregard for personal property to bunny hop up on the wall with vegetation.

I have a son nearly 16, and ... he just wouldn't KNOW this ... these kids are suffering hormonal imbalance.

I'm sure you were all perfect little gentlemen at 16. I certainly was.

kamloops · 01-21-2004, 05:30 PM

For the record, you have no idea what I was implying.

Pete · 01-21-2004, 05:41 PM

Let's just make sure that our suggestions don't involve something that would be illegal, like assault or other crimes, OK? The AUP forbids promoting or suggesting illegal acts. Alright?

Straydog · 01-21-2004, 06:14 PM

My experience is that in general, when approached with and treated with some sense of respect, most kids will respond accordingly. There are certainly exceptions.

My experience is also, in general, that when approached with yelling, cussing and threatenting, most boys the age of 14 to 15 on up will respond accordingly. Thier primal instincts and hormones are kicking in as well.

I admit the scenario and my opinion changed a bit when you added he was watching to see if he would get caught but I still don't see the harm in giving him the benefit of the doubt before jumping his stuff in the manner you described.

glassblower · 01-21-2004, 07:43 PM

Sounds like you lost your cool, and he kept his. Chances are he did not mean any harm, those plants probably looked like weeds to him.

Hoosier Daddy · 01-22-2004, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lost_sailor:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sturgeon:
... is a total disregard for personal property to bunny hop up on the wall with vegetation.

I have a son nearly 16, and ... he just wouldn't KNOW this ... these kids are suffering hormonal imbalance.

I'm sure you were all perfect little gentlemen at 16. I certainly was. <hr /></blockquote>Actually, at 16 I was probably a lot 'nicer' than I am now.....

Wreckless · 01-22-2004, 09:06 AM

I just read most of these posts and I'm going to add something that was said to me about 8 years ago by a retiring teacher. Having worked in a public school for 18 years, I agree.

He said, "Kids haven't changed all that much in the last 30 years...parents have". I agreed with him then and I still do. I think if people RAISED their kids instead of letting them be the most powerful person in the house, things would be better.

Disclaimer: I'm 44, have no kids and never really wanted them, but without 'em life would be boring! There's nothing like the look on a kids face holding his/her first salmon!!

My girlfriends 16 year old son OUT FISHES ME EVERY CHANCE HE GETS! :smile:

Hoosier Daddy · 01-22-2004, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wreckless:
.....
He said, "Kids haven't changed all that much in the last 30 years...parents have". I agreed with him then and I still do. I think if people RAISED their kids instead of letting them be the most powerful person in the house, things would be better.

My number one pet peeve. And though I felt that way before I had kids, I feel that way even more now that I have kid.

thecougdad · 01-22-2004, 05:51 PM

After 30 years of teaching other peoples kids, I learned early on that yelling,ranting and jumping up and down, did very little to change behavior. Tell them they screwed up, be firm and layout the consequences (hopefully that doesn't mean beating the heck out of them). Oceanblue has it right, firm and fair. Dan S, very well put, didn't think I would ever agree with a Dawg.

The key is you have to earn that "respect"

HOGTIDE · 01-22-2004, 06:49 PM

I have taught teenagers for about 22 years. 99% of the time, you will be quick to find out that they are a perfect product of their parent. Rarely have had a conference with an extereme habitual problem child, where I didn't find out that the parent was the perfect enabler.

EVERYBODY knows about "THEIR RIGHTS", these days, Nobody seems to know about their responsibilities. When things get serious, their mean-spirited criminal kid suddenly becomes "an innocent child, mistreated by an overpowering raging adult".These same parents will be the first to threaten to sue you, also....and unfortunately recent court history and decisions gives them cause to believe that they will win.

OceanBlue · 01-22-2004, 11:05 PM

I had a discussion with my son last night. He's 16, sophmore in High School and a novice on the wrestling team. He informed me (for the first time) that there is a wrestling meet on Saturday so he would be unable to join us for the weekend at the coast (that was planned over a month ago based on no known conflicts this weekend).

I informed him that he would indeed miss the meet and join us at the coast this weekend.

He argued that it was only one night and he could stay home alone.

No way, Jose! I explained that it is my job as his parent to ensure his safety and security. Leaving a 16 year old at home alone is not legal (as far as I know) and it certainly isn't ethical or moral. He countered with "everyone else's parents go away for the weekend and leave their kids home alone." I don't know who everyone else is, nor do I want to!

I have repeatedly requested that he bring home a schedule of practices, meets, tourneys, etc. He has failed to comply with that request. He claims that he just found out about the meet last night - it isn't his fault - and that the coach has him lined up for 3 matches.

My response: Too bad. I did my job - running him from practice to home to meets, etc., paying for his participation ($175?!), buying the equipment and supporting him by being at every meet possible. He didn't do his job. These are the consequences.

DanS · 01-22-2004, 11:22 PM

Yeah......don't TRY to be a reasonable adult about it. Just cuss, yell and carry on...........after all, EVERY kid you talk to like an adult SHOULD will just say "FU".

I lost track of who the "kid" is in this story...............