Portland police can't cuss anymore...

[Big Willie]

'unless the situation lends itself'

This 'politically correctness' has got way out of hand. Where/when does it end?

[pathetic novice]

It never ends in "Vera-Land"...

[STGRule]

I'm not sure that cussing in any way enhances ones ability to do a job. I also doubt that the inability to cuss would in any way detract from ones ability. The two times that I can think of when cussing is usually used are frustration and anger. Frustration is a personal matter and I don't have a problem with that. I do however think that anger is a bad time to be doing it. Words are one of most powerful weapons we wield. Taking out your anger on somebody and using those words accomplishes nothing but hurt the listener and more importantly the speaker appears out of control. I don't know about you, but I would prefer my officers be in control.

Besides, they are professionals, they should sound like it.

[ 01-19-2004, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[crabbait]

I am not sure from your post, but I think you are referring to the recent news article stating that local police will be required to clean up their act and not treat people quite as rudely as has been permitted in the past.

Personally, I see no reason why a professional police officer needs to call people the most offensive names possible or use the most profane words when dealing with people, no matter what the purported crime.

Police officers deserve our respect. By the same token, they need to show respect for the people they are dealing with. Name calling and profanity do nothing to strengthen their position. Why should expecting the police to treat people with a modicum of respect be deemed "political correctness" when we would accept this kind of treatment from no other public servant? How would you feel if your child were to witness this kind of behavior? How would you explain that using the kind of language that has been described was necessary to the performance of his duties and that the officer deserves respect?

To my way of thinking, verbally abusing people is one small step removed from physically abusing them. I applaud the local authorities for taking this stand.

"Protect and Serve" does not equate to swear at, verbally abuse, and otherwise spew hateful names.

[Joe Schwab]

STG Rule, You should go out on the street sometime. I can just see it now talking to some violent offender or gang banger. "Sir, would you mind placing yourself against the wall of this building before I am forced to use deadly force on you. Please sir? I'm talking to you."

You talk the language or suffer the consequences. Read the book sometime "Verbal Judo".

I'd would much rather use the language of the street than go home in a bag. If they can use it on TV and on radio talk shows what is the problem?

[Straydog]

If they can use it on TV and on radio talk shows what is the problem?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">And the bar measuring common decency and right from wrong continues to drop. It is getting closer to the dirt all the time....... :depressed:

[Big Willie]

A few of my good friends are officer's and county deputies. I have heard the stories and in the heat of catching bad guys the absolute last thing you are concerned with is your language. Do you think a rapist or a wife beater needs respect? Or any other criminal for that matter? I DON'T!

I can see it now...heated leather seats in the BACK of patrol cars, just to make criminals comfy.

[Salmon Stryker]

Capt. Hook,

In those types of situations I believe cussing would be permitted. However I spent some time as a reserve police officer and I rode with a lot of different full-time officers. I was amazed at the guy's who seemed to keep a level head about them and manage tense situations and take control without cussing. And in less tense situations by being polite and respectful to the public they seemed to get a lot more done in my opinion then the cocky, brash, badge heavy guy's.

I modeled after the polite guys and I really got a kick out of people thanking me for giving them tickets or arresting them etc. I wanted the public to appreciate the police not view us as a bunch of unprofessional thugs. When someone has an encounter with the police it is "big deal" to them. They are gonna tell a lot of people the "story" of what happened or why they had an encounter with the police. How the officer handles himself goes a lot further than just the person he is dealing with. In my opinion there are a lot of officers out there who could give the police a lot better reputation than they do.

Lord knows the Portland Police could use a better reputation.

[ 01-19-2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Salmon Stryker ]

[OceanBlue]

Do not judge a man til you walk a mile in his moccassins

[Joe Schwab]

We're not talking about casual contacts here. I agree there is nothing more satisfying than walking away from a contact with a verbally abusive offender and wishing him a nice day with a pregnant pause.

I agree there is no place in routine police work for abusive language. I spent twenty five years behind the badge full time, not as a reserve, and still work part time.

I'm talking about the heat of the moment when a person's life is at stake. I'd rather have some bypasser with their child hear it there than have the officer's child hear that Daddy isn't coming home because he was trying too hard to be politically correct.

PPD does not deserve the rap they get. Try working for liberals some time who love to second guess your every move. No I did not work for PPD but they are one fine group of officers who will not hesitate to bail into a situation when other's lives are at stake. They deserve some slack.

[ 01-19-2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Capt. Hook ]

[Snag]

I have to wiegh in on this issue as it affects me directly.

I agree, routine contacts, witnesses, victms, etc, there is (usually) no reason for profanity.

However; dirtbags, gangsters, tweekers, crooks, thieves, abusers, junkies, rapists, etc, generally understand one language. The language of the street. This "language" includes not only profanity and harsh words, but body language also. Most prey on the weak and search out weakness in others that they can exploit, included weakness in officers. Oftentimes, politeness, kindness and such is perceived as weakness. Also, trust me on this, for most of these &lt;edited&gt;, they want "respect", but respect for them has little or nothing to do with the use of profanity in the course of a conversation. For them it is just part of the vernacular. Respect is shown in other ways.

Please understand, and I do not say this lightly because it is backed up with facts, officers that are (postumously) described by their peers as "nice guys", "officer friendly", etc, are more likely to die in the line of duty than officers that are described otherwise. (If you doubt this, I can back it up with published research, I just have to dig through my piles and files to find it.)

Language, including profanity, is a tool we use to accomplish our mission. Contrary to popular myth, people are usually treated with the same amount of respect and politeness as they display toward us. I can use "verbal judo" just as effectlively as a string of profanities to gain someones attention or compliance. It all depends on the person and the situation. Each has a place.


Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

[ 01-19-2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

All depends on the situation and the heat of the moment. Routine traffic stops? Better not udder a swear word to me. Fist fight free for all. Whatever it takes.

[Chromaflage]

Let the cops do their jobs for cryin' out loud! I'm tired of hearing all the different ways that officers are adminstratively having their hands tied. If I'm in a pinch, requiring immediate assistance of an officer, I do not want him/her wasting even a fraction of a sec., trying to think of a way to communicate to a perpetrator without swearing.

This whole thing is absurd - cops can't cuss, but you can open a pornshop next to a school.

Judgment is the key, my friends. I'd rather someone be temporarily offended by language, than permamently scarred by the death of a loved one.

ORS

[ 01-19-2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: OregonRedside ]

[k9jeff]

There is a time and a place for everything. Sometimes the language is needed to get to point across to a person who will only understand an "special" word.
You don't, and neither do the PPB swear on everyday contacts.

[Salmon Stryker]

Let me explain myself myself a little more clearly. Wasn't trying to say that I thought Portland Police were unprofessional. Just stating that they could use help on their reputation because the media portrays them a certain way. Most police officers that I have met have been excellent people and very professional. There are a few who give others a bad rap. Same as anything I guess.

I was talking about abusive language in low threat situations. Traffic enforcement, field interviews, citizen contacts, Rose festival crowd control, etc. Probably not necessary to use offensive language in those settings.

However when the threat level is escalated and in a different situation I think this is why the rule says "unless the situation warrants it." However, I would hate to have to spend a page and a half in a police report explaining why I used a cuss word, so I can see both sides. I certainly would not vote for such a rule. It's like everything else in police work though the officer needs to use discretion. Without any first hand knowledge of what is going on up there I would say that it seems the city is trying to change the culture of the department to a more professional one. Complaints about the language and attitude of the police must have came from somewhere and I doubt very much that the complaints came from dirtbags, gangsters, tweekers, crooks, theives, abusers, junkies, and rapists.

[Rakkasan]

It has been said "Do not about something you know absolutely nothing about until you have been in the shoes of an officer". There are good ones and bad ones, however even the best have to tone it up sometimes. You have to remember that 95% of the people they deal with are “Career Criminals”. Believe it or not most of those people respond to there language level much better. I would listen to the guys posting that have been there and give the good guys some respect. They do not have an easy job. For those that are out there Good Job! And be safe. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

The thought of a po'ed Capt.Hook when he was still with OSP is terrifying :shocked: The guy is like 7 foot tall and has hands the size of frying pans.
I'm not a law officer so I would have to defer to their opinions in this matter. I'm pretty sure they know what's best.

[Rakkasan]

I like your reply Stew :smile:

[DF]

Unfortunatly, officers have been killed due to things like this...

"Sir, please put your gun down"
"Sir, pretty pretty pleaaaase put your gun down?"

The subject has to know, from the tone and manner of your voice, that you MEAN bussiness

[ORoutdoorsman]

Snag is exactly right. Profanity is used for a reason. As far as portland goes, it is unfortunate that they have a police department run entirely by the mayor.

[MarlinMark]

The only thing worse than a Monday morning quarterback is a Monday morning Cop.

Mark

[foxer]

Tell Vera to stop taking "tools" from the tool box. Certain situations call for using the "right" word or phrase at the time

[roadsend]

Vera needs something to keep her busy other than micro managing Portland's police. She obviously has too much time on her hands.

Back when she was in the legislature and had too much time on her hands, we ended up with CIM/CAM.

[DanS]

How do you plead to the charges of armed robbery, Mr. X?"

"Not Guilty. And he cussed at me." Points at arresting officer.

"Mr. X you are released on your own recognizance pending trial. Mr. Officer, you are hereby dismissed from the force."

Prosectuting Attorney: "But your Honor, the case against Mr. X................"

Judge: "You're right........the case against Mr. X is hereby dismissed"

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]


Sometimes it's almost painful to hear about these proposed rules. Don't these people have bigger issues to take care of?

[Rakkasan]

[raider6]

I say "respect is a two way street".....the offender determines the path of the contact. if he/she wants to act like a jerk then they get treated like a jerk. Now I don't mean escalating the situation when you need to defuse it but when you need immediate compliance like telling the hype with a needle in his hands to drop it.

I have worked patrol for many years and every cop has heard this "you're only stopping cause i'm (insert race/age here)or I drive a ***" . I spoke to a cop in the south and he once responded "yes.....the fact that you ran a stoplight and are 15 miles over the limit don't factor into why I stopped you at alll".

[nitroduk]

bottom line ladies and gentlemen, if officers in the line of duty feel that they need to resort to cussing and yelling at someone, then they are presenting themselves as someone that cannot control their feelings and emotions, and are placing themselves on the same level as the majority of the people that we deal with on an everyday basis. i for one do not believe that officers for any reason during the course of their professional duty, need to portray themselves as ignorant and uneducated morons........ [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[Big Willie]

Nitroduk...you MUST be in the law enforcement field to have such a strong opinion?

Ignorant...uneducated morons? Hmmm.

[foxer]

Not bloody likely...Geez

[Snag]

Nitroduk,

I havn't seen enough of your postings to have a feel for your sense of humor. I pray that your post was tongue in cheek. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are exposing abusurdity by being absurd.

If however, there are those that take your post to heart, including the mayors office and the citizen reviewers, here is my response:

I must admit my jealousy that you work(ed) in a jurisdiction where every contact was polite, and all the citizens spoke the King's English.

Sadly, I work the night shift in the geographic region that has more per-capita ex-cons than any other piece of real estate in Oregon. I must admit that in my ignorance and 4 wasted years of university, I have prevented more than a few uses of force by a well placed "shut the blank up" or "sit the blank down".

I guess the educated thing to do was to mace them then beat 'em with a stick.

[ 01-20-2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Snag ]

[kayakfisher]

I can honestly say that I have never had a police officer swear at me...even when I spent that one night in jail a long long time ago...

But that is too long a story to go into here. :grin: (I didn't break any laws, honest.)

M

[Rakkasan]

The second you give the appearance that you are not in control of the situation your *** is on the line and the bad guy will take advantage of that.

Anyone against or has a problem the way our local officers conduct there work out in the field need to go out on a busy swing or grave shift with an officer and observe. I would hope you could experience a hostile situation to see what it is really like to have to deal with that on a daily basis.

Sitting in a house behind a computer talking smack when you do not know the "Real" deal is not a way to judge.

Remember, law enforcement's number one objective is to make sure they and there fellow officers get to go home safe every night. If you have to cuss to get someones attention so be it.

I will not get into the adrenal rush that occures on a daily basis.

This is something many of you do not have to worry about on a daily basis.

Give credit where credit is deserved.

[ 01-20-2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: DSRods ]