Measure 30 yes or no?

[Fish mojo]

Well, how are you voting on the tax increase?
There was an interesting show just got over on OPB dealing with the issues. From my understanding, this is for an $800 million tax increase over 3 years. A no vote will make state agencies deal with budget shortages. These will include schools, social programs, prisons, and more. I'm sure state funded fish hatcheries and parks are included.
Vote your conscience.

[ 01-14-2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Fish mojo ]

[Sea Nymph]

NO MORE TAXES!! Learn to manage our over-taxed dollars before sucking more blood from us.

SN

[skrimmy]

It doesn't matter how much they scare us into voting for higher taxes, they will still want more. They will ALWAYS try to justify why they need more. Stop the insanity. Just say NO.

[ampersat]

I'm going to have to research this one a little. While I'm generally against tax increases, jobs and profits are down overall which means there's less "stuff" to get tax income from. X% of less is less and the demand for services from those tax incomes doesn't go away.

[Flatfish]

I voted no new taxes for the last 15 years.

My votes did not create this mess. Deal with it.

Mark and the right wing whacko dog.

[Cool Texan]

Voted No, and will vote no when the time comes. Fiscal responsibility can sometimes be a painful lesson, but the outcome is full of rewards.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

No no no. I am fed up with more and more taxes and nothing to show for it. The schools still need books, the roads are bad, and some people get paid for staying home in the snow. I froze my posterior off putting chains on my car to get out and work. You could throw ten times the amount that this tax will raise and these people will still waste every dime.

Stay out of my wallet!

[ORoutdoorsman]

Here is where I hop on my soapbox as to why I will not be voting for more taxes. We had a tax increase proposed recently, where the portland public schools said, "oh, we need more money or else we will have to cut all these programs.You have to give us this increase, its FOR THE KIDS." and the politicians and supporters said, "oh, we need this money, or we will cut police, school and fire. We wont cut money out of any other programs, or force other programs to make changes, we will only cut the stuff that is important in hopes you will vote in the tax increase so we dont have to cut the services that are vital to you." Well, the tax increase was voted down big time. Then, the teachers(portland to be specific)decide to strike, because they want higer wages. They don't strike because the kids have no more sports programs, or because the kids have no more school supplies, they strike because they want more money, and more benefits. So, since we have to have teachers for our kids, we take more money out of the police departments pockets, costing police officers jobs because the teachers want more money. We take money from fire because the teachers want more money. We take money from fish and wildlife, parks, every thing in the state, and city of portland loses funding because the teachers want more money. Now that we have cut funding to police, schools, fire, and the teachers have gotten a raise, they are proposing that we raise taxes again. Well I hate to break it to the state of oregon, but until we secure the budget of every other state funded program, and keep the "overworked, underpaid" teachers hands out of the pot; and until we can cut back on the worthless programs that we dump endless amounts of money into, I will not ever be voting in a tax increase. Because while it is a proposed $100 on average per family, the next year it will be another $100 on average, and another $100 on average, on top the years and years of $100 on average that have already been passed, and we will still be hearing the same sob story of oh we have no money and we are going to cut funding to schools, police and fire, because we cant cut the deer birth control pill research we have been doing. So until we send the message to Oregon that we need to stop raising taxes, and figure out how we are going to spend what we have, it will just be a cycle of more and more money being flushed, and the problem of how to lower taxes will never be solved.

[Lepper]

no one will ever vote for a tax increase until it gets bad enough that they have to cut the sports programs. Then.. things will happen..


sports programs in schools should be the first to go..

[1pump]

Fish mojo, let me ask you this:

Where did you get that avatar?? That's hilarious!

[Straydog]

Well, since some of us have honored the requests and "rule" of avoiding these politcally charged arguements while others have not, I see LIG has been succesfully turned into yet another right wing rant opportunity without benefit of fact or reason.

Perhaps you should change the name to "Lars in General" rather than Life in General.

Rant on, I will continue to respect the wishes of our hostess.

[ 01-15-2004, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[2LEYS]

Come on Stray. This is not a left vs. right topic. It is a topic about a ballot measure put before us. You are the only one that brought the left vs. right into this thread.


I too don't want to see any new taxes especially with all the waste.

[Kruechief]

SD,

Holy carp, poor guy, you sure are a victim.

Krue

Slow your troll, you might get lucky

[Radke]

I think what iced it for me (no pun intended), was the recent action by Mult. co. to pay the workers even though they didn't make it to work during the storm last week. No, I am not looking for an excuse, but this really has me pursed-off. How many of us had to use vacation or no-pay because we or family members couldn't work due to the storm. The tax increase (we approved) will cost me about $1100. this year and the next two because mult. co. had no money. Where did this money come from? Taxes are to a goverment what drugs are to a crack-head. And by the way, I can't stand Lars Larson or that other fool Savage. I'm more liberal than conservative, but enough is enough.

[lost_sailor]

It certainly doesn't have a chance here in the ifish world.

Here's my take: we footed the bill for an insanely long legislative session while our elected representatives worked out this solution. Those representatives had all of the information, all of the details about every line of every budget of every state agency and program.

Now we'll turn the decision over to "the people" who only know "taxes suck." Kiss goodbye the money we spent on the session, and we'll probably have to pay for a special one...

[CATCH AND EAT]

Straydog, I think this is permissable since we are talking about fiscal responsibility and money out of the pockets of each and everyone of us. No need to attack conservatives or liberals that may disagree with you. Uncalled for in my Conservative non-Lars Larson point of view.

WE vote on this kind of resolution each and every year after year after year. Leadership has cryed wolf and the persons in charge of delegating money have wasted it right before the tax payers eyes. Suddenly the tax payer has awaken to the tactics of these folks because they have been exposed by the media as irresponsible with budgetary matters. No wonder we vote no all the time.

I feel for teachers of this area that want to do their job and do it well. But your union is ineffective in lobbying for money to run schools at appropriate levels. And what about the over staffing of administration? Extravagant salaries of the superientendant of PPS or Mult County libraries? Yep, very responsible.

Here's an idea, let's stop having all these special elections every three months and save millions of dollars each year and fund schools. Way to many special elections that try to sneak past the voters innicitives that cost multi-millions of dollars. Just plain wrong.

JUST VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cause it's gonna cost ya either way. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[Firedog]

Voting NO, Didn't vote for the Mult county tax that is costing me an extra $1000 and won't vote for this one either. The City and state have to many fluff programs they continue to fund and then cut vital services. The money is there it just needs to be budgeted properly.

[OceanBlue]

No.

How many times do we have to say No before the government understands NO?

When your kids ask you for something and you say no, they'll ask you again and again, hoping you'll say yes. If you do eventually say yes to avoid the conflict, whining, threats and promises, what happens? They start it all over again the next time they want something. They never learn to be happy (live with) what they have. They grow up living outside their means because they were over-indulged as children.

Time for the over-indulged children to grow up and live within their means.

Now I'm sure someone will call me a right-wing conservative blah, blah and I'll laugh because not long ago, I was called a left-wing liberal whack-o on this very board.

[SafetyChain]

NO!

Let me see if I can explain why....

As of January 1, I have to pay a Multnomah County Tax I didn't vote for (only passed in the City of Portland), my health insurance went up by about $60 a month (Family coverage, small company), I have not seen a pay raise in over three years due to economy (But am glad to be working )

Pay more , HOW? I am already moving backwards!

[LeakyWaders]

I'd like to insert a simple fact that is often ignored in this debate: If this measure fails, the amount of services provided by Oregon's public agencies will go down. Maybe it's obvious, but I infer from several posts on this board that some people think their no vote will force public agencies to use money more efficiently. History tells us this is not going to happen. More criminals will be on the street, less police will be on the street, and that street will have more potholes in it. Class days will be cut or class sizes will increase. Yes, there is waste in government, but voting this measure down isn't going to change that dramatically.

If you believe the services this tax will fund aren't worth the cost, I respect your no vote. If you're just trying to teach somebody a lesson you're being unrealistic.

[GutshotApe]

Yup...ol' Diane Linn of the Multnomah County commission would make a good poster child for what's wrong with government. First she raises the head librarian's salary to $138,000. Now she decides to pay county workers who couldn't make it to work during last week's snow...as if it is the taxpayer's fault some county workers choose to live out in the boondocks. Ms. Linn said "we would have paid these people anyway so it's not like its an extra expense" (or words very close to those). It isn't just Multnomah County. The same mindset exists in Lane County, the City of Eugene, and probably Corvallis and other local governments...some people apparently think we can spend our way to wealth. Soon I will be a Linn County resident...now there's a place where government seems to actually work and common sense prevails.

[TheCamel]

If this poll is reflective of the voters in Oregon, then government will have to do with what the funding that they presently have. My thinking is that when your income is down, you have to reduce your spending. What a concept!

Mel

[SafetyChain]

when your income is down, you have to reduce your spending. What a concept!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Yep, that is why I don't have a boat right now

[duckcall]

Read the voter's pamphlet carefully. Page 13; you will lose property tax discount; page 14 Aarp is manupulating numbers, most members are against it. Live within your budget like the rest of us. Vote no

[CATCH AND EAT]

Portland trolly cars. Proposed sky tram. Light rail. Get the picture of waste?

[skahorse]

Interestingly, this poll is very close to the results of the current "scientific" polls that are out there.

Maybe they'll get the point.


Leaky waders:

If this measure fails, the amount of services provided by Oregon's public agencies will go down. Maybe it's obvious

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">So you suggest we just keep throwing money at the problem?

--Skahorse

[LeakyWaders]

The cost is worth the benefits. No one likes paying taxes, but some people like to pretend that they receive nothing from the state or that they have no responsibilities as a member of a society. A no vote will make us less safe and hurt the education of our state's kids. To me, the tax is the lesser of two evils.

[El-Kabong]

gimmie an N, gimmie an O

whats is spell

NO

[Phil Layer]

This measure doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Portland....never did.

But the sad fact is that nobody in government is going to suddenly become fiscally responsible when this is not passed. Instead, services will be cut and people will suffer. Oregon schools already suck compared with most other states. This should put us right in there with Mississippi and Arkansas educational systems.

I'll vote yes because I've got two bright kids needing a good education but I know this will never pass.

Here's to increasing crime and decreasing literacy!

[Steelie King]

Here's to all you NO voter's out there!

[garyk]

I was fortunate to have attended a really strong public school system, one that the parents were proud of and paid high taxes to support.

I've also been blessed to have reaped the benefits of that education, giving me many more choices in my life.

Now, I guess it's my turn to step up to the plate.

If you think the country is slipping backwards, wait until you see what an under-funded education system produces.

I'll vote yes - for your kids - since I don't have any.

[SafetyChain]

If you think the country is slipping backwards, wait until you see what an under-funded education system produces.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Probably the same as the system without GOD!

Flame on! You know it's true!

[TheRogue]

garyk....some people do understand, thank you!

Safetychain...not going to go there.

I'll be voting YES, even though I realize it doesn't have a chance in hell of passing.

Please, for those who have better ideas which will work than your elected legislature who has spent months dealing with this problem, make your voice be heard.

And, if you don't have any other ideas besides, "quit being wasteful" or "prioritize" without being specific about the waste or the priorities, well... [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

TR

[ 01-15-2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[SafetyChain]

edit

[ 01-15-2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: SafetyChain ]

[TheRogue]

Safetychain, I edited my comment to you, sorry, this is an extremely emotional topic for some of us.

TR

[ 01-15-2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[SafetyChain]

Thank you and yes it is, for everyone.

[Fish mojo]

Guess I should chime in now since I started this post.
Hmmm, where to begin...
I am not a right wing whacko.
I am not a left wing pinko ****** you know what.
I am a moderate Oregonian.
I do not like to see what is becoming of my state and the society that being spawned here.
I would like to keep every dollar I earn.
I am mature enough to realize it takes real dollars to produce an educated, safe society with nice parks and roads. I want to see seniors who for whatever reason have somewhere to live and have affordable medications and healthcare.
I want to see a strong police force and prison system to keep my family safe.
I want my children and every child in the great state of Oregon to have a quality education, so when I am retired I know our state will be well taken care of.
I want the state to provide first class fish hatcheries to provide for the hobby I so love.
I realize there is waste in government and schools and I feel that cuts have been made deep already.
This problem is not getting taken care of by itself. Private industry is not going to bail us out. One of the top executives from Nike was on that show and he stated that even though it is going to cost his company and employees millions of dollars, it is a better option than having our schools and their future workers fall further behind.
This is not a federal tax. These dollars do not go to New York or California or to make bombs.
This money goes to the state of Oregon and its people. It is an investment in our land.
I will vote for measure 30. I think long term there needs to be a better system of funding.

And I think Diane Linn from Multnomah County should be fired for her actions.

[I Fred]

Fish mojo, You couldn't have expressed my thoughts any better! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[TheRogue]

Excellent post Fish Mojo! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

TR

[CATCH AND EAT]

Points well taken fish mojo. Especially the last one for the train wreck gal.

However, I cannot agree with you that it is an investment in Oregon. Kyle asked us to be specific in pointing out waste. I believe I did just so by making short but sweet the comments of Light rail, sky tram, and the trolly system. We bought what we did not have money to pay for. We stole from the tax payer and put up 1920 technology to attract tourism supposedly. How quaint. We all know this money could have been responsibly spent by state and county budgets yet it was rammed down our throat. We vote NO and they go ahead anyways. So much for the voice of the people. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Screw the dang pet projects and funnel the money to what really matters!!!!!!! [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

The end.

[ 01-15-2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

[Boatdog]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Points well taken fish mojo. Especially the last one for the train wreck gal.

However, I cannot agree with you that it is an investment in Oregon. Kyle asked us to be specific in pointing out waste. I believe I did just so by making short but sweet the comments of Light rail, sky tram, and the trolly system. We bought what we did not have money to pay for. We stole from the tax payer and put up 1920 technology to attract tourism supposedly. How quaint. We all know this money could have been responsibly spent by state and county budgets yet it was rammed down our throat. We vote NO and they go ahead anyways. So much for the voice of the people. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Screw the dang pet projects and funnel the money to what really matters!!!!!!! [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

The end.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">C and E: I respect you very much, as well as your opinions. I was wondering what "1920" technology you are referring to? The Tramway? Street cars? Light rail? I need a little more info, please.

Thanks,

[glassblower]

If the state would spend the money wisely rather than just blowing it on trash projects they would have more than enough cash for the things that do matter. I am so ticked off at all the cost increases such as fishing, hunting, marine, DMV, and all the other tags and licences that keep going up that I can not stand it anymore. After hearing the majority of the people on ifsh say that they supported the licence and tag increases I am suprised that that are not all for a tax increase also. As for schools thay can close them all, I pay for my kids to go to a private christian school because the public schools were sweeping them under the carpet and not teaching them a stinking thing, they would tell us it was our job to make sure that they learned all that stuff (what the heck is up with that?). I am not a teacher, I am a run of the mill grunt worker. So if they do not think it is their job to teach them anything why even have them. Cut the public schools or let the people who's kids go to them pay the bucks to them. I also think sports have NO PLACE whatsoever in a school, sports have nothing to do with a childs education at all. We spend alot of cash to send our kids to a school where they will learn somthing because the public schools would not do their job. As for cops I think 90% of them are about worthless, they spend more time hassleing kids about riding their bikes on the sidwalk (and no kid should be made to ride in the street) than they do going after speeders, drunks, sex offenders, crack dealers, etc. So they can all go down the road to. Our streets are falling apart, when they do come and fill the holes they leave them full of mud, dirt, water, and the patch comes out in 48 hrs. Road flagers for the state make a starting wage of like $18.00 an hour? talk about wasting money. There is no way I will ever vote yes on a tax increase, period. The state can fall apart and rot before I will say yes to anouther tax. hike. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[ 01-15-2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: glassblower ]

[glassblower]

[ 01-15-2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: glassblower ]

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

Originally posted by LeakyWaders:
I'd like to insert a simple fact that is often ignored in this debate: If this measure fails, the amount of services provided by Oregon's public agencies will go down.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">What services? The roads should be better, the schools should have computers, criminals should stay in jail. We pay plenty to support these services but they are not being provided.

These public agencies are wasting our money. Sure they get some things done but the inefficiency is outrageous. I live in Portland and they are saying I need to pay over $700 dollars for that new tax voted in. I watch them repave a street only to dig it up again the following week. I see one guy holding a stop sign, another watching him, another standing buy a guy working, and the guy working is taking a break. That's how you patch a pothole in the rain in multnomah county. It is a very good use of my tax dollars.

Why can't we hear, "The tax will raise x dollars. Those dollars will be used exclusively for schools. We are buying x equipment, x books, x etc... We have a plan to get x into the schools in x timeframe.

Raising taxes should be like raising venture capital. The investors need a plan before they invest any money. Taxpayers should be given the same information before voting on a tax increase. But the real issue is the fact that thier is no plan. Well one plan, waste money on administration, consultants,and worthless studies. Hey lets spend one million plus to study the feasability of covering I-405. Lets spend money to attract major league baseball. Lets build a trolley downtown that really doesn't go anywhere that trimet didn't go before. Etc.. etc..

[Mad Mikey]

On a day to day basis I see people at my store with their Oregon Trail cards. They buy stuff I cannot afford.
A few weeks ago a young mother came through my line and pulled cash from her card to buy tickets for a Shania Twain concert.
I have a former co-worker, single mom with three kids who brags about how much food she gets on her card. She has two huge freezers full of stuff and at the end of the month has so much left on her card that she buys it out and gives it away to family and friends. She does not have to work.
Day after day I see Meth addicted white trash and non-working folks who can't speak English living a lifestyle I cannot come close to.
This bothers me. There definitely is a problem with wasted money.
The problem with raising taxes is that there is no such thing as a temporary tax.
When bond measures go down the cuts are made where they should not be, ie. Police, Fire schools etc.
This is done to instill panic in the masses so they will change their votes next time.
The cuts can be made but they are not being done in the right places.
I will vote NO to any new tax measures until I see some fiscal responsibility shown.
I will not feel guilty about it either. Our present taxation is not only wrong, it is immoral.
There has been some dialogue in the past which I have stayed out of, about MY responsibility to educate and pay for services.
I have no problem with that. I have chosen to not have children and realize I have benefitted from my public education and various services provided.
But when do I stop paying???
There are some who feel that I have a responsibility to pay for folks who choose to have umpteen children with the logic that they are doing ME a favor by providing new workers and tax payers to provide for me in my old age.
This smacks of socialism. I can take care of myself and am responsible enough to do so.
Instill this in our next generation and maybe there will be hope.
Off the soapbox now........

[2LEYS]

I think welfare abuse is the single biggest waste our state has.

Fix the welfare system and I mean really fix it and you will save a lot of state dollars.

[Okie]

I'll vote NO on Measure 30.

[foxer]

Here are some random thoughts. Cut illegals off of the Oregon Health plan. Cut illegals off of welfare. Make welfare only temporary, 2 yrs max?. Make all kids pay something for extra curicular stuff. (I paid $25.00 per sport, 65.00 for the full year) Mandate that public safety, schools, and healthcare for seniors and those in need (that are here legaly) will always be funded FIRST. Everything else can get cut to fit the budget. In an economic downturn, wages of all public employees, teachers etc will be frozen, or maybe just cut out the cost of living adjustments. Made me sick to see all that $$ go to increasing teachers salaries in Portland after they threatened to close schools etc. Oh yeah, quit voting those who are not fiscally conservative into office. - Rant over

[ORoutdoorsman]

Foxer, I agree with nearly every single thing you have said. You brought up the topics that were right on my fingers tips as I was reading through this post. The only thing I don't agree with is 2 years or welfare, I do think it needs to be limited, but I think it needs to be dependant on the person, and their progress needs to be kept track of to make sure we are not throwing our money away! We spend so much time worrying about funding all these little programs, and spending millions of dollars on people and programs that go nowhere! We need to put the things that are essential first when it comes to how we spend our money, and cut the programs that dont make a difference. The only reason that they cut the big programs is to force us to raise taxes! And in response to the people that think that voting in more taxes is the lesser of two evils, or that it is the only choice since they are holding our kids hostage, giving in is the worst thing that we can do! We have a huge, and growing problem with drugs coming into this country. People get killed, cops get killed, and it costs billions of dollars to try and eliminate this drug problem. So do we save the money and the lives, give in and just regulate the drugs so we profit and dont get cops killed? NO! You cant give in just because it is easier. What needs to be done is we need to get new people in office and make it known we are tired of having money taken out of our pockets! And until I can be shown that they are getting their priorities straight, and not throwing money away, I won't vote for more taxes.

[TheRogue]

C&E..

I agree with you on the tram/light rail. It was built with mostly federal dollars, however, we fund the money-losing operation and maintenance ourselves.

The passing of the tax measure in Multnomah County was probably the worse thing that could've happened to Measure 30... Many people who maybe would've been swayed to vote yes on 30 really aren't going to with the county tax on top of that. And, as been shown time and again, a strong turnout and 1-way vote in the PDX area carries the whole state...just a factor of population distribution.

In the long run, I could care less about MAX, Tri-Met, Oregon Health Plan, or anything else....along as education, beginning with Head Start and all the way through high school is fully funded and the pride of the country, like we once were. I'll include an extremely strong state higher-ed system, which is accessible and affordable to all....

That is my priority...I'll make number 2 an efficient and well-maintained roads and transportation system...we're going down the right road (pun intended) with the recent massive licensing increases to fund this, that was one well-done thing by the legislature the last session.

Number 3 is public safety, doubling the size of the state police force (at least) and keeping true criminals in jail for longer periods of time.

I firmly believe ( and I think many others do to..) if you do these three things well, the rest can fall into place (jobs, healthcare, etc.)

my last .02 on this thread

TR

[ 01-16-2004, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Boatdog, yes those are what I was referring to. Perhaps my decade referral was a bit off or tongue in cheek for that matter yet I think I made my point. It is and was very obsolete technology by any of todays standards. We learned nothing from other cities mistakes no did we take any lessons regarding trains from the Japanese. WE just plain wasted the money.

Kyle, I think you have a good point here regarding the implementation of the multnomah county tax and then trying to pass 30. Not well thought out or timed by the powers that be. Mind you I personally still would not have voted for it because of my disenchantment with the whole taxation process but I might have at least listened more intently.

Foxer, you made some decent points on your soap box. I can agree with you on 88% of them.

In the mean time we will continue to be threated by taxers when budgets fall short (notice I did not say there was'nt any money in the bank?) to shorten school days, cut police, and not repair our roads.

We spent billions of dollars this century to build new roads and develop this country. Now the infrastructure is crumbling because we don't take care of the basics but we cater to the fluff. We are truly a backwards nation at this time.

PS still would'nt want to live anywhere else in the world. I still love my country and I love Oregon.

[Martin85]

No on 30,

[ORrinker]

Here is a novel idea!!!! Break these measures into smaller measures so we can vote on how it is spent. By this I mean give us a measure that only pertains to school funding and I will bet it will pass. The money could then only be distributed to schools. The same for the rest.
I am getting tired of being threatened with school closures and fire and police layoffs while they continue to fund methadone clinics with my money. Separate out these different issues and let the voters have some say in how it is spent.

Randy

[ 01-16-2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: ORrinker ]

[Okie]

"NO" on Measure 30 is the only thing to do.

[monoman]

I am a right winger. I am taxed to much! I do not have kids at school anymore. I pay my taxes on time. I am voting yes.

I do believe the glass is only half full in this state. Not half empty, but only half full. We should do better.
We live in a state that has everything. We live here because of this. I refuse to believe we can not make this state a better place to live. I would give anything to get the people that our running the Portland area out of power. These "leaders" have lead us down to the Pearl district, and made others pay for it. Be it a trolly or a downtown park or what ever, leaders in Portland do not seem to see the rest of the state. It's not going to change! So what do we do, watch every program your kid depends on be trashed, no more hatchery fish, name YOUR tax black hole that you care about. It takes money to run all these and many, many more. If you want to do away with waste, find some and lobby to remove it, if you live in Portland it should be easy, start at the mayor.
I look at it as a "sur tax" no different than what I pay for a house in the area I choose to live. I could save lots of dollars by moving, but I don't because I like where I live. I am not losing anymore sleep over the Portland spenders. I don't like the fact that we are taxed at a rate that is one of the highest in the country, but I don't like it that I pay a higher rate of income tax than some.
I will vote yes, it will hurt, I will hate it, but at this moment, I see no other way of saving Oregon. I will fight for change.

[Straydog]

Originally posted by monoman:
I am a right winger. I am taxed to much! I do not have kids at school anymore. I pay my taxes on time. I am voting yes.

I do believe the glass is only half full in this state. Not half empty, but only half full. We should do better.
We live in a state that has everything. We live here because of this. I refuse to believe we can not make this state a better place to live. I would give anything to get the people that our running the Portland area out of power. These "leaders" have lead us down to the Pearl district, and made others pay for it. Be it a trolly or a downtown park or what ever, leaders in Portland do not seem to see the rest of the state. It's not going to change! So what do we do, watch every program your kid depends on be trashed, no more hatchery fish, name YOUR tax black hole that you care about. It takes money to run all these and many, many more. If you want to do away with waste, find some and lobby to remove it, if you live in Portland it should be easy, start at the mayor.
I look at it as a "sur tax" no different than what I pay for a house in the area I choose to live. I could save lots of dollars by moving, but I don't because I like where I live. I am not losing anymore sleep over the Portland spenders. I don't like the fact that we are taxed at a rate that is one of the highest in the country, but I don't like it that I pay a higher rate of income tax than some.
I will vote yes, it will hurt, I will hate it, but at this moment, I see no other way of saving Oregon. I will fight for change.

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Very well said, Mono! Thank you!

Vote yes and then get involved and make darn sure that within three years we have an equitable system of revenue collection and disbursment in our great State.

The Legislature has had ample opportunity to make the cuts they claim can save us but they have not done it. They will not do it this time, either.

Vote yes, get involved, nurture change...........

Do what you can do!

[Drakeblake]

For me its all to easy, If I vote no then my tuition will go up by far more than it will cost me if I have to pay more taxes for the next three years. Last year it went up over 200 dollars per term when the tax increase did not pass. Think about it if the tax increase doesnt pass they may have to cut some school days for public schools now you tell me what would cost more...3 days of hiering a baby-sitter/daycare to watch the kids or to pay the tax increase. Vote yes!

-blake

-blake

[glassblower]

Scare tactics to get increased taxes = Terrorisem being put upon our own people by our own government.

[Straydog]

When people take facts and reduce them to "scare tactics", the result is ignorance.

The fact is, with the defeat of measure 30 will come cuts in needed services to many, most especially school kids that have no say or control.

Some call it scare tactics, I call it hard facts.

"Scare tactics" was the mantra of the Measure 28 antitax vote crowd yet when it was defeated I had to help get rid of over 20 teachers in our district as well as funding for all Middle School extracurricular activities as well as reduced bussing as well as fewer school days. These were called scare tactics when it was shared this would happen. It was proven to be facts when the cuts were enacted after the vote.

I realize some don't care that public education will suffer greatly. I realize that some don't care that criminals will go free to do what criminals do. I realize some don't care if our Great State "rots". That does not change the FACT that that is exactly what will happen with the defeat of measure 30.

Just as putting lipsitck on a pig does not change the fact that the critter is still a pig, calling facts scare tactics does not change that they are still facts.........

[ 01-16-2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[garyk]

If anyone wants to go after 'fraud and abuse' I suggest they start with corporations like PGE that paid only $10, (yes that's correct), in state taxes, while transferring tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars out of state.

These guys are escaping their duty and the burden then falls upon the rest of us.