Myth Busters--DIY Flame Thrower

[Birdnest]

Anybody ever watch that show, Myth Busters? Last night they had a subject that was pretty scary. The myth was if your cell phone could ignite the gas fumes while filling your car. It can't, but the static electricity from getting out of your car can.

They said the majority of the fires occured when a person got back into their car during the refuel. (women 8 times more likely to do so) When their tank was full, they rubbed off some electrons with their booty, and carried a static charge right up to the nozzle...boom. So what is a person to do...touch something before you get to the nozzle.

The footage they showed was pretty graphic and scary. Sounds like the most common reaction is to pull the nozzle out of the tank, now you are shooting the trunk of your car with your new flame thrower. After realizing you have not been checked out on said flame thrower, you drop your new toy on the ground, igniting everything around you. :shocked:

I am starting to rethink all of those "Oregon, not smart enough to pump your own gas jokes"

Joe

[Longhunter]

Happens often in the desert country. Saw it happen once in Phoenix,was a bit scary!
The Lady was burnt pretty good and lost her car.

[1pump]

The myth was if your cell phone could ignite the gas fumes while filling your car. It can't, but the static electricity from getting out of your car can.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I'd have to disagree with that. I work with petrochemicals for a living, and all loading facilities that I use have strict rules about cell phones and electronic devices on their premises. It's not likely for a cell phone to ignite vapors, but I wouldn't say it can't. Any phone, radio, flashlight or whatever that's not intrinsically safe is a potential ignition source. Ask Rebell, he'll tell ya.

[TonTo]

And watch out for those plastic gas cans.Take em out of the truck and get em grounded.

[Ryan Pultz]

I use to work at a cirkle K in californa and one time we had a man fill a plastic gas can and when he went to slide it in the back of his SUV the carpet striged static and boom the man lived but was not in good shape as for the SUV it will never see the road again rp

[Birdnest]

Outstanding, only two post in and there is already a "YOUR WRONG" comment with quote box. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

It should be noted for the viewing public, the results expressed on the show Myth Busters are their own. If while refueling and chatting with your homies you happen to burst into a ball of flames, please forward the case to 1pump so that he may document the first known case.


Joe

PS Good point on the portable tanks.

BN,
Work in the petrochemical industry and you will have the information that 1Pump has given you. 1Pump handles more gas in a week (sometimes Aviation Gas) than you will handle in your entire life! Any source of spark can and will ignite gas fumes, no mater what you hear or see on TV.

Here is what the Naval Safety Center and MSHA have to say about cell phones and fuel fumes. I think these sources have more validity than the entertainment source you are referring to.

[ 12-27-2003, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Birdnest]

Keta,

As I am sure 1pump already knows, modern avation fuel's flashpoint is something like 4 times higher than that off regular gas, thus 4 times safer. Maybe if I eat right and exercise I will live long enough to understand the concept of flamable materials. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

You guys kill me, do you just sit around waiting to start an argument? I simply posted what I thought to be an interesting show with a good point...static electricty from getting out of your car can cause and explosion.

You act as if I have no regard for potential dangers associated with flamables and potential sources of ignition, I beg to differ. I was impressed by what I thought to be a nice safety tip and thought I would share it, now I wish I wouldn't have.

Joe

What did you guys do before Google?

[ 12-27-2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Birdnest ]

Don't sweat it BN....thanks for the info.

[1pump]

Birdnest, I didn't say "you're wrong", I merely said that I disagreed.

A while back I was at a customer's office getting some paperwork signed when I noticed a photocopy of an article sitting on the counter. Seems a girl was filling up her car while talking on a cell phone (I believe it was in Salt Lake) and she managed to set her car on fire. She wasn't badly injured, but the fire totaled her car. Investigators blamed the cell phone. I don't remember if it was a news article or a safety bulletin in a trade mag, but if I get back there any time soon I'll track it down and send it to you.

I was working at a cardlock on Xmas Eve when some guy in a BMW pulled in and proceeded to fill up his car while yelling into his cell phone. I was about 50 feet away when I saw him, but he hung up and tossed the phone into his car before I could get over there and tell him to turn it off. I let it go for the sake of not starting an argument. About 30 seconds later he was topping off his tank when his Beemer spit gas out all over his right arm. He was mighty irked, and I'm sure he had no idea how much worse it could've been.

There's quite a few people on this board who are in the same line of work as me-- Riverliver, Tankerman, Slutgoddess, Rebell and probably others. I'll stick my neck out and say that they would agree with me. If you get caught with a powered-up cell phone in Rebell's facility, his boss would lock you out for at least 30 days.

And I do appreciate you mentioning the danger of static, since most people give it little regard. But cell phones are every bit as dangerous. Like I said earlier, not real likely, but possible.
I've never seen the show you're talking about, but I'd label the show's producers as extremely irresponsible for flatly stating that you can't ignite gas vapors with a cell phone, especially since most people believe everything they see on TV and treat it as gospel.

[Birdnest]

1Pump,

Thanks for the insight.

I hope that you did not feel as if I were trivalizing the dangers you folks face in dealing with this stuff, that was not my intent.

Stay safe and see you on the water.

Joe

[Woody]

You guys kill me, do you just sit around waiting to start an argument?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Sure looks like sometimes doesn't it?

Seriously though, I've seen the show your talking about. It's one of my favorites, right up there with American Choppers. The two hosts are movie special effects guys. They try to disproove several different urban myths during each episode using a scientific approach. They do their homework and interview experts in the field and try to set up the experiment as accurately as possible.

In the episode you are talking about, they tried igniting various concentrations of gasoline vapor with a cell phone, static electricity, and an open flame in a large plexiglass inclosure. The only way they could get it to blow was with extremely high vapor concentrations and an open flame. They considered the myth busted, based on their experiments, and interviews with experts in the industry.

That said, I don't think that I would go out of my way to make a phone call while while I was filling up. After all it is just an entertaining TV show and I don't want to be that one in a million.

[kayakfisher]

Why don't we all have "shock straps" on our car chasis like in the old days...you know, the strap that is attached to the frame of the car, and drags on the ground, to keep the vehicle grounded at all times?

Perhaps that would prevent the static electricity from starting a gasoline fire?

M.

[lingslayer]

Originally posted by Birdnest:

I am starting to rethink all of those "Oregon, not smart enough to pump your own gas jokes"

Joe

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Whenever the weather is like today and I need gas like I did tonight on the way home from work, I think about those jokes and remember mom's words of wisdom,... About having sense enough to come in out of the rain.

Let the folks in sunny kalifornia pump their own and think whatever they like. :grin:

Jamie

[1pump]

Why don't we all have "shock straps" on our car chasis like in the old days...you know, the strap that is attached to the frame of the car, and drags on the ground, to keep the vehicle grounded at all times?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Just saw one of those the other day. First one I've seen in years.
When I was selling parts I'd occasionally get an old-timer who wanted one. Usually it was somebody who was tired of his wife complaining about getting zapped every time she grabbed the door handle.

[freespool]

I'm not taking any sides here but as far as the military is concered static electricity is a very big deal. Many aircraft refuel/defuel and munitions accidents can be attributed to ESD. Everything must be grounded,the fuel truck the aircraft and yes the people involved in the operation must touch ground several times during the fueling operation. Certain types of clothing are prohibited,such as nylon. This is due to their high static build up properties.


salmom hugger

[Birdnest]

My dad, a retired wildlife biologist for Texas Parks and Wildlife, lost a couple of fingers to static electricity.

Part of his job was trapping critters like turkey, deer, ect. for studies and exchange programs with other states. They would set up a big top style net and bait an area. Once they got sufficent numbers under the net, they would detonate explosive charges to quickly cut the lines holding the net up.

To make a short reply long, while setting up one of these charges the static electcity from his nylon parka set it off in his hand. The result was 2nd/3rd degree burns, missing fingers, and aluminum shrapnel imbedded into his hand.

After reviewing the accident, it came to light these biologist where just that biologist, not explosive experts. They had no real training in all of possible ignition sources.

As a result of the accident they sent all of their folks to formal explosive training and changed the fuse system. I believe it is now a powerdered metal (magnesium??) filled plastic tube that is ignited with a simple shotgun primer/hammer device. My dad said they sat around, wide eyed, as the listened to all of the things they had been doing dangerously wrong for years.

Joe

[Angler of Repose]

We had a safety memo circulated a few years back from our company that warned of fire potential in filling gas cans. All the company pickups have plastic bedliners. Sliding a metal gas can across the bed or trying to fill the can in the bed were potential fire hazards from static electricity. I belief, if there is any doubt, take the side of caution. Burning up is a helluva way to go.