I have a dream....

Jennie@ifish · 12-21-2003, 02:30 PM

When I dreamed up Life in General, it was a place to talk about family, so that the fishing board remained fishing focused.

I'll tell you, I'm near to my wits end on politics, on Life in General.

You know, I counted up the threads that were pleasant, and non emotion evoking, and they really are the majority!

On the threads that include political arguments, it's almost always the same people, and it is also those people that seem to use the whistle alert, or otherwise have disagreements with the mods.

Here are my choice in wonderful threads on LIG: (I think I got them all, but may have missed one or two. Don't think they were bad, if I missed them.)

(OOPS! I FORGOT to copy them before I closed notepad. DUH!)

Anyway...

ALMOST all of them are pleasant, and fall into what I dreamed of, when creating LIG.

I think my next move will be to zap the politics. I'm sorry, folks, but it just stirs up negatives on ifish. It separates us, and believe you me, I have e mail to prove it.

Ifish is NOT a political board, and there are SO MANY DANG political boards out there to choose from, that I don't feel it's necessary to be a part of it.

Fishing politics, YES, begrudgingly, at times, but I do feel that is necessary.

My goal on ifish is to bring sports fishermen and women TOGETHER, not drive them apart, and politics is doing JUST THAT.

I don't care if I fish with a democrat or a republican. I don't! Furthermore, I don't think I'd even ask you, if we were fishing together! I want to know what it is you are catching all those fish on!!!!

I also don't care if you think it's a bad idea. Ifish is mine, and this is what I am concluding, after a little research and reading.

Politics and religion are not something I like discussed at my dinner table.

I'm beginning to feel the same way about my web site.

So there.
In ifish, I had a dream... and it wasn't to pit you all against each other. No, it wasn't that, at all!

Jen

[ 12-21-2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

skrimmy · 12-21-2003, 02:38 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
Jennie....it wouldn't be the first time I said that was a good idea! I rarely if ever venture over to this side of the board because of the bickering that happens over politics. And I sure can't say that I am innocent myself in getting caught up in one or two of them. So, I've been trying my dangdest recently to just avoid them. It's worked well and kept me out of trouble with you and the mods who work so hard to make this such a great place.

OK....back to the other side of the board for me once again....time to read all those fishing stories. see ya!

12-21-2003, 03:13 PM

Had to do the same Skrimmy. Oh there is plenty I would like to say but after fighting a few of these battles I have come to the conclusion that it is just not worth it.
Do what you have to do Jennie! I support you in this.

[ 12-21-2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Stew ]

ampersat · 12-21-2003, 03:49 PM

I agree, Jennie.
[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Cool Texan · 12-21-2003, 04:02 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

GutshotApe · 12-21-2003, 04:19 PM

LIG was un-moderated at first. I vote to go back to that.

I've participated in non-fish political discussions on LIG...its been lively & entertaining. Recently there have been a few religious and/or abortion threads...those, after perhaps one quick check, I've ignored. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did it really make any noise? One can usually tell from the topic title what it's about...and if political, religious or abortion discussions/arguments aren't one's cup of tea, nobody is being forced to read it.

Fishing (& hunting) is Ifish's bread & butter but variety is nice, too. And I'd rather discuss other topics with people who I "know" from the fishing/hunting board than anonymous strangers somewhere in cyberspace.

Whatever...Ifish is a fun pastime or hobby. I sure hope resource-related politics continue to be deemed worthy of discussion...regardless of the fate of LIG.

jocose · 12-21-2003, 04:33 PM

its your house jennie... go cougs...

jocose · 12-21-2003, 04:49 PM

ive never had any problems finding useful and informative fishing information on ifish. i look for those tid bits on the other boards, when i come to LIG i come for stimulating discussions on topics other than fish... fishing is often at best a momentary escape from the real world...LIG shows us that our little corner of the world is made up of a very diverse group of people with lots of differing opinions on most all topics. perhaps we take it all too seriously, vanilla is nice but its much more stimulating when you add other ingrediants...i would suggest those who post differing view points keep it informative and never direct it in a hurtful manner, theres no escaping reality jennie, dreams are often illusive. i am a proud member of this group of fishing nuts and will return irregardless of the changes proposed, but will miss the lively debates if they disapear..... merry christmas everybody... gary fetters aka jocose

1pump · 12-21-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

On the threads that include political arguments, it's almost always the same people, and it is also those people that seem to use the whistle alert,

Some people just have to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

Fshklr · 12-21-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:
When I dreamed up Life in General, it was a place to talk about family, so that the fishing board remained fishing focused.

I think my next move will be to zap the politics.

Ifish is NOT a political board, and there are SO MANY DANG political boards out there to choose from, that I don't feel it's necessary to be a part of it.

Fishing politics, YES, begrudgingly, at times, but I do feel that is necessary.

I also don't care if you think it's a bad idea. Ifish is mine, and this is what I am concluding, after a little research and reading.

I'm beginning to feel the same way about my web site.

So there.
In ifish, I had a dream... and it wasn't to pit you all against each other. No, it wasn't that, at all!

Jen

Thank-you..

Maddie'sDaddy · 12-21-2003, 06:06 PM

There is enouph of that crap on every channel of the tv.

Gus Orviston · 12-21-2003, 06:09 PM

Dang it, I have been using the whistle alert all wrong, I thought it was the cat call sound. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Mmmm, how you going to sort politics our from all that is discussed... Crabbait's job just got pretty hard.

Ok...a 1, and 2 and a 3, together now!

Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

I am the walrus
Coo goo g'joob

Thumper · 12-22-2003, 01:49 AM

Banning "politics". Hmmmm. Well, the definitions should be interesting.

My dictionary includes this one:

"The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society."

The little whistle alert thingy will be very, very busy. Good luck moderators. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[ 12-22-2003, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

Jennie@ifish · 12-22-2003, 05:40 AM

Ah! But you didn't look in Jennie's definitions!

If I look on page 42 of my book, it states:

Politics: Anything unpleasant and disruptive that causes people to be upset.

This is a happy place!

Gone with the name of LIG! It is now called Ifish Sesame Street starring Mr. Ifish!

Tune in, everyone, you are going to love it!

:smile:

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:

Politics: Anything unpleasant and disruptive that causes people to be upset.

This is a happy place!

All this talk about banning that which is the most stimulating part of Ifish is unpleasant and disruptive to me. Stop it! :shocked:

Seiously, it is certainly your call but this is the place I spend most of my time and the reason is the stimulating conversation.

I have heard more fish stories and seen more pictures of dead and live fish than one man needs in a lifetime.

I avoid political conversations with my customers for professional reasons. I don't work in a setting that allows chat with co-workers. My wife and children have a very limited interest in politics. So, I drop by LIG and discuss them here. (Or I did..........)

:whazzup:

pdxkevin · 12-22-2003, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:
...Politics and religion are not something I like discussed at my dinner table.

I'm beginning to feel the same way about my web site.

So there.
In ifish, I had a dream... and it wasn't to pit you all against each other. No, it wasn't that, at all!

Jen

Sounds great! I agree.
(please pass the green bean casserole... :smile: )

Jennie@ifish · 12-22-2003, 06:00 AM

Maybe I'll make a private board for all of you who want to talk politics. You can have a password to get in, so that those of us who don't want to see the good bad and the ugly, don't have to go there.
I'll call it The Fish Cleaning Table. :smile: You know, a place to put all the waste. :smile:
Many boards have one of these wild boards. It may be worth a try.
Meanwhile, we on LIG can continue talking about home life, recipes, where to get snow cone syrup, and what kind of birds we have on our front porches. :smile:

You can post spam, links, and break any ifish rule you want. It will be unmoderated, and un sponsored. :smile:

Would that be good? :smile: :smile:

Jen

[ 12-22-2003, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

LCFisherlady · 12-22-2003, 06:04 AM

Thank you....
Your house your rules. I for one totally agree.
Judy

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 06:22 AM

As always, your house, your rules will be respected.

However, there is not one person forced to read one thing on here, either.

Jennie@ifish · 12-22-2003, 06:53 AM

OK, I'll let the moderators know that. NOT!

We are forced to read them, and the rapid succession of whistle alerts when people are upset by people's posts about them.

It is a full time darn job!

I woke up this morning to a dream, that was quite connected to LIG, I believe.

In my dream, I received an e mail that said:

"Dear Jennie,
Your web site is alienating people."

I kid you not! And it woke me like a nightmare!

I know of several people who have formed dislikes for one another, as a result of this forum, and it's politics. I also know of several personal relationships that have been harmed as a result of moderating them.

It is NOT fun to be moderated! It never feels good! I KNOW! I have been moderated!!!!

Jen

GutshotApe · 12-22-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GutshotApe:
LIG was un-moderated at first. I vote to go back to that.

Why not just make the terms clear up front: Un-moderated, un-sponsored, no whistle/alert button..."ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK"... and let 'er rip? Those who are easily offended will stay out...those who go in do so knowingly and their recourse, if they don't like what they find, is to leave quietly.

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 07:05 AM

Good call........... as soon as I hit the reply button I knew I had blown it. Moderators do indeed have to read them. My bad call. :blush:

I understand your postition. If it has become too much for the mods and you then it needs to change, that simple.

Do what ya gotta do but please, before you resign yourself to eliminating or moving it or calling it "waste"

, please remember that as much as we all dislike it it, nasty, heated and passionate politics got us clipped fish to fish on, got us more hatchery fish to fish on, got us closer to responsible managment of our watersheds, got us a one and three springer regulation on the Rogue as opposed to strictly C and R, got us real close to removing a fish killing dam, got us education for all of Oregon's kids, and on and on and on.

We can all wish for a Sesame Street world but only through hard fought politics will we ever acheive it. And to say no minds are changed or no one is touched in a positive manner through these discussions is not accurate, I can personally attest to that.
:smile:

lost_sailor · 12-22-2003, 07:10 AM

:depressed:

"The unexamined life is not worth living." -Socrates

Hearing the other side of the story makes us better people. But, have it your way. Of course.

Okie · 12-22-2003, 07:19 AM

Fishing regulations is politics and I'm sure some of the fisher people have went to Salem to fight for a cause to protect fishing etc. So it is difficult to regulate or eliminate all politics. It's probably like making sasuage no one likes to see the process. Just listen to the other side but you don't have to get upset about it. It's your call and I respect that.

WheresMyBobber · 12-22-2003, 07:23 AM

What some people consider to be spirited discussion, may be considered by others to be ugly pointless arguing. I know of a non-fishing site that has a board titled "The Bickering Board" just for topics that fit that category.

I don't know how much work it would be to create a similar board, but I think it would be a good place to "dump" the ugly threads that appear on LIG.

BrokeItOff · 12-22-2003, 07:24 AM

The problem I see is that there are many fishing topics that are political(the recent and informational thread on the 50-50 plan). Sure some of the others schools etc, are not related but I have typcially noted pleasant behavior and decorum. The others I ignore. It seems that you want to make LIG, a life is good board which is fine but I do enjoy seeing different on often well expressed view-points.

Shane

Jennie@ifish · 12-22-2003, 07:25 AM

Fishing politics have to have a place here. Enviromental politics, too.

It's just the bashing of things back and fourth that will not ever be resolved that is the problem.

The problem is also posting things in your face, with no opinion attached, or explanation. Just a post, "Click here" to an opinion that is meant to inflame. Those, are problems.

It's like a fight to see who can find something on the internet that will help prvoe their case, or help make someone even more ticked off, and it's getting nauseating to me.

It's the bantering back and fourth of "I'm a democrat, and you are scum, or I'm a republican and you are a dirty rat" type of messages that I find pointless and irritating.

Jen

[ 12-22-2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 07:43 AM

In my ongoing efforts to gain personal growth on here, I have recently started pretending I am sitting in a public meeting in front of an audience having these discussions.

Just as in public meetings, there will still be those that have to be nasty in an attempt to make a point. It is my responsibilty to accept thier input and then ignore them. Just as in public, the trash talkers receive little if any credibilty for their efforts.

Also, with the exception of a couple of posts, I think for the most part a whole lot of progress has been made towards making this a kinder, gentler board. Of course, those whistle alerts don't come to my "inbox", so maybe I am way wrong in that thought.........

[ 12-22-2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

BrokeItOff · 12-22-2003, 07:45 AM

Jen, I agree. There is a lot of picking, and incitement. Granted people who are here in good faith should not have to deal with it, but I bet if people just ignored the rude,attacking posters they will either change or go away.

Anonymity also spawns this behavior, maybe instead of avatars we should all have to use a personal picture and our name (unrealistic I know). Before people post they need to read what they have written and see if they would be comfortable reading it to the person they are responding to in person.

shane

Fish-n-Fever · 12-22-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Maybe I'll make a private board for all of you who want to talk politics. You can have a password to get in, so that those of us who don't want to see the good bad and the ugly, don't have to go there.
I'll call it The Fish Cleaning Table. You know, a place to put all the waste.
Many boards have one of these wild boards. It may be worth a try.
Meanwhile, we on LIG can continue talking about home life, recipes, where to get snow cone syrup, and what kind of birds we have on our front porches.

You can post spam, links, and break any ifish rule you want. It will be unmoderated, and un sponsored.

Would that be good?

Jen

It's hard for me to tell if this is a joke or sarcasm or a real possibility. If it is real consider me the first to sign up!
If you indeed password the forum it might be interesting for you and the mods to see just how many and who actually like what we now know as LIG.
I enjoy the debates on different subjects. I don't always agree to many of the responses yet I seldom post on them, but I still enjoy reading them knowing if there is something written that I do not care for I can X out and go elsewhere on this board. I learned a LONG time ago that "even a FOOL who speaks slow and chooses his words wisely is made to seem wise." Wisdom is a gift, knowledge comes from learning and learning comes from hearing all sides and determining which makes sense to you and once again my quote at the bottom of my replies says it all for me.
Ron

Joe Schwab · 12-22-2003, 09:04 AM

Jennie, Your board, your call.

From the Mind of Steven Wright.
"99%of lawyers give the rest a bad name."
"Half of the people you know are below average."

Rakkasan · 12-22-2003, 07:31 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] OOOHHHHHHH THANK YOU! Yes I am yelling. I HATE POLITICS!......Especially when you have online know it all's.........

I am starting to hear our daily news channels on here.

Good call on nixing this

Thumper · 12-22-2003, 08:50 PM

I don't understand the problem.

People who don't like the exchange of views on LIG should not come here.

Is that a hard concept to understand?

I don't especially like the content of one or two of the boards. As a result I haven't been to them in eons. I'm certainly not advocating that they be deleted.

What am I missing here?

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 08:59 PM

I don't get it either, Thumper.

There is a post above from a person I have never seen post here before. Why would someone read something of their own free will and then complain about it?

As I have mentioned before, it reminds me of the old maid spying on the neighbors with binoculars and then crying foul when she catch's them naked......

If you don't like what you see, then don't look! It isn't rocket science folks.

12-22-2003, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper:
I don't understand the problem. People who don't like the exchange of views on LIG should not come here.

Exchange of views? You think name calling and belittling those who have a different opinion than you is an exchange of views? Maybe that's the problem Jack.
If it were kept to a friendly debate than there would be no problem but you know as well as I that it very rarely if ever stays that civil.
People should be able to use this forum and read the contents of the various threads without being insulted.

Thumper · 12-22-2003, 09:16 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Stew:

Quote:

Exchange of views? You think name calling and belittling those who have a different opinion than you is an exchange of views? Maybe that's the problem Jack.

I am sorry that you feel so strongly about it Stew. :depressed:

Straydog · 12-22-2003, 09:19 PM

Stew,

I saw on another thread on the Community board where you refered to anothers opinion as "a crock".

Quote:

Originally posted by Stew:
Sorry, but all I can say is what a crock.

Why is that ok over there, but similar posts by others here is unacceptable?

[ 12-22-2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

pdxkevin · 12-22-2003, 09:27 PM

"I have never thought that a difference in political, any more than in religious opinions, should disturb the friendly intercourse of society. There are so many other topics on which friends may converse and be happy, that it is wonderful they would select, of preference, the only one on which they cannot agree." --Thomas Jefferson to David Campbell, 1810.

"Remember that we often repent of what we have said, but never, never of that which we have not." --Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1814.

_________________________

Personally, I love a lively debate on just about any topic, so long as it is a focused debate. When personaly jabs start to get aimed at those participating in the debate, it is the beginning of the end of a chance either might expand their beleifs or grow from the debate. Rather, it is a retreat which promtes the other participants to hold more steadfast to thier position.

Initially, I became interested in the forum for it friendly atmosphere and light-hearted banter. Lately, it has become tiresome to read the subjects on LIG. Many subject would seemingly appear to be baiting or trolling. Reading some of those subjects makes me wonder if people can just let it go.

If you really want to get into deep political/religous/otherwise super-heated debates... please check out some of the other fine forums specificly dedicated to those topics. Keep this forum a refreshing fishing hole away from the daily grind.

12-22-2003, 09:29 PM

Sorry Jack but that's the way I feel and a simple history of what has been posted in the past will bear that out.Want to talk politics? Just keep it civil! Is that such a hard concept?
SD - Surprising response from you of all people :whazzup: but since you pointed it out I will edit out that word that offends you so.
Well said PDX [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
With that being said this is my last post on this subject so Merry Christmas to all.
If you need to address this to me further please send a PM

[ 12-22-2003, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Stew ]

happybrew · 12-22-2003, 10:17 PM

Lord, please help me hold my tongue!!!

[ 12-22-2003, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

Kruechief · 12-22-2003, 10:35 PM

Sign me up for the [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

"guttin' board"

I like that

Ya, the "guttin' board"...

No wussies,

No rules,

You live by your own cunning and physical prowess! [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Krue
"the first Guttin' Board un-mod"

Strictly there to mop up the mess, bury the evidence and turn off the lights.

[ 12-23-2003, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

Straydog · 12-23-2003, 06:10 AM

Stew,

I never said I was offended.

I was simply pointing out another case of double standard. It seems to be trendy for a few to expect others to do as they say, not as they do.

[ 12-23-2003, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Hoosier Daddy · 12-23-2003, 06:46 AM

A different board or maybe just a big red flag icon on all political posts might be a good idea

Kruechief · 12-23-2003, 08:20 AM

Dear Community,

I apologize for last night's posts. I had a 14-hour day delivering presents to my foster kids and residential kids in Salem, Cornelius, and PORTLAND

Our foster parent association gathers money all year in order to bring this little bit of joy to our State wards. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

God Bless the foster parents and the work they do. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Some of my kids are DD and all are behaviorally challenged. :depressed:

I should of thought about the hugs and smiles and passed that on to the board instead of my sharp-tongued comments. :smile:

Krue

Thumper · 12-23-2003, 12:54 PM

Just for clarification then, Jennie. Your earlier posts did not indicate that politics are off limits, only that you were leaning that way. Do we assume that is the case hereafter? We will comply either way.

Thanks.

[ 12-23-2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

DF · 12-23-2003, 04:10 PM

I think everything would be much easyer if this

" I don't agree with your opinion, but respect it, now here is my opinion."

instead of

" I don't agree with your opinion, and because of your opinion you must be a complete idiot and a waste of oxygen and I hope you fall off a cliff."

some of you guys get way to fired up and just start bashing people because they don't agree with you. I love reading both sides of a debate, but don't like it when somone is getting ripped for their opinion.

kayakfisher · 12-23-2003, 04:37 PM

Sometimes the written forum is a very hard arena to have active and heated political discussion without accidently offending someone. In person, kidding around and sometimes "rough" language is moderated by the facial expressions, smiles, laughs, or a twinkle of the eye that are not part of the written word. Sarcasm, which can be sharp, can also be friendly, but unless a participant is unusually gifted in the written word being explicit without being painfully sharp is a balancing act. Perhaps that is part of the reason the political discussions rapidly deteriorate on this forum, assuming of course the most of us are actually well intentioned, as I continue to assume, Jennie.

It takes an extra intense effort however to keep things civil when it heats up...esp if the laughing cannot be heard.

M.

Jennie@ifish · 12-23-2003, 05:11 PM

I don't want to tell you whether I have or not, Thumper.
I am thoroughly enjoying nearly 24 hours of no whistle alerts and fights.

So.... I'm still deciding... :smile: :smile:

Jen

Jennie@ifish · 12-23-2003, 11:55 PM

Thumper, and others--

The reason that we can't just ignore it, and "not go there" is because this is my board, and the moderators and I have to go there.

It has ruined my... well, I won't say day, but it has affected my mood at times. It's very distressing to be in the middle of fights between members. I don't want to have to edit someone because someone else said so, and the other way around... In fact, I don't even want anyone to be offended.

So, it's not a hard concept to not go there. It is impossible. We have to go there.

And, it's really easy for someone to get sucked in and offended. If we were all made of steel, it would be a solution, but we aren't.

Come on, let's have a nice Christmas, and take a break from politics for a while.

I need that.

Jen

kayakfisher · 12-26-2003, 10:58 PM

On the other hand there could be "rules of engagement".

Any one on this list blatantly insulting or "disin" someone on the list could incur the obligation to take him(her) out fishing, on the boat if there is one, or to a favorite bank site, lunch included. The first fish of course goes to a shelter or food bank of either's choise...and a photo of the two with their fishies needs to be posted on the website...with both of them smiling.

M