Closing topics.

[2LEYS]

I personally think that topics are closed based on a moderators political beliefs far too often.

I don't think a moderator should lock a topic if they don't politically agree with what is being talked about.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Well as we all have been reminded, it is not allowed to criticize mods.

It would appear, regardless of the topic, if opinions are being exchanged, in a civil matter that is within the AUP, what else could cause a topic to be closed?

Isn't exchange of opinions what this part of the board is for

[El Shaddai]

Crabbait~ Clearly you have a problem with absolute truth. Closing legitimate, civil threads because you personally disagree with them is cowardly and obtuse.

The value of this forum is to inquire, discuss, and debate real issues. I have seen far more hostile threads go unclosed than the ones you chose to close today.........I admire those on either side who have the courage to stand up and be counted for what they believe in....clearly your agenda is to protect one side and muzzle the other.

Jennie~ You need to make a decision....ultimately this is your board. I know your preference for harmony in the garden....however a LIG forum does not lend itself to that. You can continue to let the bias of the mods rule the LIG board, set new ground rules pertaining to any social or political issues or delete the forum completely.

This is an important decision....I know that many people read LIG and never post...I get emails from them all the time. The implication reaches further than just a few regular posters debating and mods being slanted.....people change their views as they become more informed and in turn do better things in the world. Personally, I do not post because I want to sway the hard core lefties...I post to refute the left and help people who are undecided or uninformed make better decisions....

It comes down to this.....how much truth will you allow?

[Thumper]

[ 12-21-2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Don't you all have better things to do than to criticize someone's volunteer work, this Christmas?

I do not believe that moderators close topics on their beliefs. In fact, I know they do not at all.

I do believe there are some things that can not be solved here.

I do believe that LIG was invented for kids, dogs, and recipes. Not politics.

You are pushing me to enforce that. I won't do it right now, on your suggestion, or on anyones. It's Christmas time. Now go be with your families, and do things for others that are positive.

Jen

[ 12-20-2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Thumper]

[ 12-21-2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

[Jennie@ifish]

I'm not going to argue with you, Thumper.

Nothing has been closed without at least three votes from the moderators.

When you fight, the topics get closed.

Period.

Same goes for this thread.

If you can't behave, I don't care how long you have been a member, I don't care if you have donated to ifish, if you cannot get along with others, I will close your thread, or I will disable you.

If you want to be on ifish and can get along, you are welcome here. However, these moderators do not get paid, and it is not an easy job.

Go ahead, everyone that has a problem with ifish, post here, if that's what you want to do.

I'm going to go eat dinner.

Have fun.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, and the choices you have given me. I choose none of the above.

Jen

[ 12-20-2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[blast and cast]

Blah, blah, blah. It amazes me that people want to criticize someone for running a FREE bulletin board how they want it. Many people on this board pick topics to post that they know will either 1) stir the pot, 2) cause controversy or 3) inflame others. As mentioned many, many times before there are LOTS of political, social and religious bulletin boards on the web, put your “hot topics” there.

As I said before, I feel that the crud spewed on the LIG board affects the quality and quantity of posts on the other boards. I know that my views of certain people is tainted based on the rants that happen on this board and I would not go out of my way to help them further their fishing prowess This does not have to do with their belief or thoughts of what is right and wrong, but the lack of respect for others. I for one would love to see the LIG board go away and stick with the fishing and hunting.

[lost_sailor]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Crabbait. Good call. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[El Shaddai]

Jen~ I strongly disagree with your assessment based on Crabbaits editorial(s) on the posts closed today. Good luck with moving IFISH to the next level.

With that, I am checking out. The best part of this entire scenario is that one day every knee will bend and the absolute truth will be made known to all of us.

Remember, keep Christ in Christmas and take a page from Straydog.....take action to improve a child's life....lip service and good intentions are meaningless.....and when your world starts to crumble remember my signature line....

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

I enjoy a good discussion to learn and hopefully pass on some wisdom I have received over the years. Communication between individuals can sometimes get heated if you forget the reason for talking. Learning is a two way street. Most of the time we can't learn if we are talking and that goes for writing too.

I think I heard Jennie very clearly. She does not feel that the moderator acted inappropriately. This is her site and we all are guests. We are obligated to follow her rules. If we don't like it, we can find another home. I for one truly love to read everyones exchanges about almost all issues. I don't like it when it becomes heated and the irritation comes out.

So how about a group hug and let's get back to some serious living??

[ampersat]

Like it or not, this is Jennie's board. It's her rules. Don't like 'em? Go argue your politics somewhere else. This is after all primarily a fishing board. The LIG board was opened to give a place where NFR topics could have a place. It isn't here so you can argue whatever it is you want to argue. Granted, that designation gets you into grey areas real quick. But the mods are doing their best to make this the best site it can be.

Bottom line: you should be grateful that you have a LIG board, not upset that your particular discussion got shut down.

[Birdnest]

I can not believe some people would bother wearing the skin off of their fingers to complain about our volunteer mods. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

If this is your only place to voice your opinions, you need to get a life in general. This is not the epicenter for political thought in the universe, this is a small corner of the internet where people who like to fish, can also chew the fat about some of the other things in their life.

This is not your house, you are a guest!!! You have no right to complain to the hostess. If you don't like it, don't go away mad, just go away. Somebody mentioned that there are a lot of people who read LIG, but don't post. I bet you are right. I bet there are a whole bunch of people that we will never really get to know because they are smart enough to stay out of the rumble in the jungle. I sometimes wish I was one of them.

Life is not all fuzzy pictures of labs and kids with Snoopy poles, but we could sure use a lot more of that around here.

To all of the mods and Jen...thanks for your efforts. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Joe

[WheresMyBobber]

Very well said Birdnest, I couldn't agree more. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Very well said Birdnest
All of you guys who are complaining about topics closing should be given a refund.....what??? you don't pay anything to be on ifish? Wow! imagine that! You pay nothing to be here and all you can do is complain when your little pet topics get tiresome and the mods and Jennie close them down.Frankly most of them have been beaten to death [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]
If a discussion remains civil then I don't see a problem. When it turns inflamatory like most political issues do then when all have had their say and all opinions are covered and especially when it starts to turn ugly like so many of these do then I applaud the moderators for closing them.
Jennie and the mods..good work! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ 12-20-2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Stew ]

[Thumper]

[ 12-21-2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:

I do believe that LIG was invented for kids, dogs, and recipes. Not politics.

Jen

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">It was Jennie. I remember it being created for happy birthdays, birth announcments, recipes and the like.

[Fast Water]

I think that the Ifish Mods do a great job [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] and put in a lot of work to keep these boards from veering off to the left or right too far.

But, I agree with you Thumper, those threads were not all that bad and see a Mod take part in them, get the last word in and then close them (by commitee or not)can lead some to wonder.

[Straydog]

Originally posted by El Shaddai:
Remember, keep Christ in Christmas and take a page from Straydog.....take action to improve a child's life....lip service and good intentions are meaningless.....and when your world starts to crumble remember my signature line....

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Thank you for your acknowledgment and it seems the same can be said for you. You walk the walk as well as talk the talk. My hat is off to you for that.

[True]

If you don't like the way the place is run go and buy your own server and start your own website. Jennie's worked hard to keep everyone happy and the moderators have enough trouble just keeping the bait on their hooks. It's either that or you can send private (civil) e-mails to those you are debating with.

True

[STGRule]

&lt;copy from the other thread&gt;

It is not so much banning a topic as it is moving past a topic. These three were not the first. Just the last. None of the topics were removed, just closed. They are in the archives for anybody to access. If you peruse the archives and these recent posts you are likely to find the spectrum of opinion. When we lose the ability to say "I" and start saying "you" we lose civility. We lose the ability to persuade. When we add nothing we haven't already said, we lose credibility. The mods have decided (all of us) that this topic (along with a couple others) have run their course. That’s all. No hidden agendas, no mean-spiritedness, no censure. We simply choose community over divisiveness.

[crabbait]

First, my apologies for being unavailable for much of the day. I see that the board has been busy.

Second, thank you to all who have sent their support, publicly and privately. It means more to me than I can say.

I see no reason to defend the actions of the mods here. STG said it perfectly already.

Merry Christmas.

[kayakfisher]

The two topics I have seen closed where in my opinion closed appropriately. I base this on my observation of a tendency for certain members of these forums to express contempt for the ideas of others...rather than an intellectual and honest discussion of the issues. The way to disagree in a civil and diplomatic fashion is to express a philosophy or thought with back up facts or experiences rather than using degrading terms or emotionally charged language that is very polarizing rather than illustrative.

Since I don't own this website and do not have a monopoly on wisdom or knowledge I consider myself to be a guest here. I therefore try to express my thought in this forum in the way a guest would in the house of a friend...who also has other guests that could be offended by something I express carelesslly. If we are to have interesting "conversation" here I would think it will be constructive if we find a way to do it without insulting each other...and without insinuating that the thoughts differing from our own have no basis.

The two threads I contributed to that were later closed were closed to end the insults as far as i could tell ... and i do not personally know any of the moderators. It appears to me that their judgement has been very good so far.

Holding back on emotional outbursts and beefing up the thoughts before they are written will likey make for a far more interesting exchange...and one that remains open for further development.

We have many things in common here, but it is just as much our differences that make this place interesting. There is not much purpose in exchanging ideas with someone whose ideas are identical to you own, right?

M.

[FishinMission]

It's not easy being "Mother Moderator".

You can't please all the people all the time.

Merry Christmas to all!

Mark

[freespool]

Seems to me that the same people keep having the same trouble with the mods. I think there may be a pattern here.


salmon hugger

[Silver Hilton]

I am moved, through recent experience, to compare this to the punchbowl at a christmas party.

In some families, there is an uncle who is both too fond of the punchbowl, and unable to control the results. Once he gets to tasting the punch, he gets mean, rude, or just otherwise unreasonable. As a result, people get mad, and relationships get strained. People start dreading, rather than anticipating the parties.

In order for the rest of the family to enjoy the party, either the punchbowl has to go, or the uncle has to go, or he has to be prohibited from tasting the punch.

I think the political topics are the punch here. There are folks who cannot drink from the bowl without become a mean drunk. When these folks get to tasting the punch, they reliably get mean, and the other guests suffer.

So, if you don't want to have a nasty atmosphere at the party, you have to either remove the punchbowl or remove the drunks. Either solution would improve the atmosphere.

Me, I'm an alcoholic, so I won't drink the punch. I'd prefer that the punchbowl be left around for the folks who like to drink punch and can control themselves. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of problem uncles at this party, so many that removing the punchbowl is probably the best option.

[roadsend]

Jennie's board. She makes the rules.
I have enjoyed and learned from the political discussions, especially those pertaining to Oregon.
For down and dirty political discussions, mostly with a national or international flavor, I might recommend Free Republic (freerepublic.com) or Demoncratic Underground(democraticunderground.com) depending on your persuasion.
I would hope that Jennie and the hard working VOLUNTEER mods allow our discussions to continue, but if they do not, I fully understand and support the fact that it is entirely their prerogative.

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

I think that the moderation on this board is very reasonable. It does not matter if I agree with it or not.

I did not start this board. I did not let all of these people join with the power to post. But I commend those who did. I would never want to have to deal with keeping up on all of the posts. This is a public website with major sponsors. The content has to be maintained.

I have posted content that was removed and I have no problem with that. It's not my website. I wasn't banned or anything like that.

Some topics just get way out of control.

Sometimes it better to go on the offense and stop it before it happens.

This all looks like old re-run's of the stuff that used to appear on the Oregon Live forums to me?

If pro-internet arguing is all you have to do I suppose. I'll take dead fish pictures anyday. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

[Tagster]

****** - it does, doesn't it.

That is the main reason that I joined Ifish. It wasn't like Oregonlive was.

Everything evolves to some extent. I am glad that Jennie is pulling on the reins alittle.

I am also a sucker for the long multi-page threads. I have learned from several of them, but, if the intent is to hurt, it must go.

Tag

[Tagster]

Just a thought, how about asking a few of the more vocal contributors to become mods for one week? They would have to make judgement calls on whether or not the discussions violated the AUP.

Sort of the walk a mile in my shoes concept.

Tag