Unborn Victims of Violence Act

El Shaddai · 12-19-2003, 04:59 PM

On the worst night of her life, Tracy Marciniak- nine months pregnant- was brutally attacked by her own husband. He punched her in the abdomen and then kept her from calling for help.

Tracy nearly died from the assualt and her son-Zachariah- just five days from his due date bled to death from blunt force trauma. A picture taken at his funeral shows a grieving mother holding what appears to be a healthy, sleeping baby.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act will allow prosecutors to go after those who injure or kill an unborn child while committing a violent federal crime. The bill would not affect abortion laws, and yet the abortion lobby is trying frantically to kill it.

The House of Represenatatives has passed the bill twice, but it is being blocked in Congress by the abortion lobby and the left.....

Why?

DF · 12-19-2003, 05:08 PM

Dosen't really make sense why pro-abortion folks are attacking it if it dosent really affect them? :whazzup: [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

roadsend · 12-19-2003, 07:56 PM

The pro-aborts have been denying the humanity of pre-born children for years. Why should their position in this case surprise anyone?

happybrew · 12-19-2003, 08:43 PM

They have a zero tolerance policy. Anything that might even remotely be construed legally or philosophically at odds with their agenda will be fought tooth and nail.

happybrew

El Shaddai · 12-20-2003, 06:39 AM

The Senate reconvenes next month and this bill will be discussed....I would urge anyone with any compassion for childrens rights and family rights to call or email our Senators to support this common sense, ABSOLUTE TRUTH piece of legislation.

I have several links to related topic if anyone wants more info......

lost_sailor · 12-20-2003, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by happybrew:
They have a zero tolerance policy.

'Cause it's a "slippery slope" - it would set precedents possibly leading to a ban on abortion.

Though you don't agree, you have to recognize the logic. It's the same as opposing medical marijuana laws because it's one step closer to legalizing some drugs.

happybrew · 12-20-2003, 07:01 AM

This leaves the pro-abortion people in some pretty silly looking positions, though. Just look at the parental notification billl. It did nothing to curtail abortion, rather it made sure that parents were informed when a procedure was performed on their kid. It was common sense. It got vetoed.

happybrew

lost_sailor · 12-20-2003, 07:25 AM

Pro-choice. Not many people are really pro-abortion.

Not much argument that the wacko in the example isn't a murderer. Wait! I don't take part in these arguments, it's hopeless ... just wanted to point out the reasoning.

Joe Schwab · 12-20-2003, 07:25 AM

LS, That is but one of the fallacies of "zero tolerance" It takes away all common sense decision making by anyone of average intelligence. Regardless of what "zero tolerance applies to, I have yet to see a positive result.

While we are on the subject of abortion, can anyone give me a good reason why partial birth abortion cannot be changed to a premature delivery situation and let higher powers decide whether the BABY lives or dies? Or are the pro abortion people so paranoid of the "slippery slope" that they would fight this logical advance?

El Shaddai · 12-20-2003, 07:37 AM

No such thing as pro choice......make no mistake...if you support abortion the blood of those babies are equally on your hands.

If you saw an adult physically and violently beating an infant to death on a public street and did nothing the blood of that child is on your hands...there is no difference. that is yet another one of those pesky absolute truths that has not and cannot be scientifically, medically or morally refuted.

CH~ Good question...thread last month addressed the exact question....very spirited exchange but a lot of good points were made.....we got our message out and handily won that debate....

2LEYS · 12-20-2003, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Pro-choice. Not many people are really pro-abortion.

Whatever you have to do to sugar coat it. Abortion is murder. Just thought I would remind you.

24 on/ 48 off · 12-20-2003, 08:27 AM

:smile:

[ 12-20-2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: 24 on/ 48 off ]

2LEYS · 12-20-2003, 08:30 AM

<Think of a better metaphor please>.

[ 12-20-2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

El Shaddai · 12-20-2003, 08:59 AM

24/48~ A decision based on lies and deception.....just ask the actual plaintiff who is now lobbying to get the decision reversed because she was misled and lied under oath....and has now seen the absolute truth of the situation....

2LEYS · 12-20-2003, 09:38 AM

My point above was that just because the government makes something illegal or legal does not make it right.

What about the partiot act? The government passed it into law so there, they are right. So no use debating the patriot act. But wait. It was Bush's idea so you guysa have to hate it right?

DanS · 12-20-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

No such thing as pro choice......make no mistake...if you support abortion the blood of those babies are equally on your hands.

Sure. And if you support legal alcohol you're responsible for all the drunk-driving deaths that occur, too.

How far are you gonna reach next time?

2LEYS · 12-20-2003, 10:59 AM

Sorry DanS that is rediculous.

No one supports legal drunk driving for the purpose of killing an innocent person.

Abortion directly results in the taking of a human life. No other way to look at it.

Alcohol is not responsible for any deaths. A person needs to decide to drive after drinking and then decide to drive then get in an accident that may or may not kill someone. So for every 1 million people who consmue alcohol a day 1 person dies from drunk driving. Just a guess.

But for every one person who has an abortion at least one person dies.

It is a bit different.

Supporting legal alcohol does not say you support killing people.

Supporting abortion does say you support killing people.

Stz ll · 12-20-2003, 12:14 PM

I have never thought an early term abortion as murder. I have always supported a womans right to choose.

This however was murder and the man should be charged with such. I would support the unborn victims of violence act!!

crabbait · 12-20-2003, 12:19 PM

The absolute truth is that there are a variety of opinions on when life begins. None of them absolute.

The absolute truth is that many lives are affected by an unwanted pregnancy and many factors are not known to those who will never have to face this decision.

The absolute truth is that in the absence of a legal medical procedure many young women will lose their lives to back room, amateur, illegal procedures.

The absolute truth is that the majority of people know that it is pointless to discuss this issue with people who are fanatically determined to force their opinion on everyone as if it were the absolute truth. Driving off anyone with an undecided or opposing view with a tyrannical tirade does not equal a "win".

The absolute truth is that this will never be settled here and the repeated resurgence of the topic does nothing but create hard feelings.

I think it is absolutely just about time to close this topic.

[ 12-20-2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

El Shaddai · 12-20-2003, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> No such thing as pro choice......make no mistake...if you support abortion the blood of those babies are equally on your hands.

Sure. And if you support legal alcohol you're responsible for all the drunk-driving deaths that occur, too.

How far are you gonna reach next time? <hr /></blockquote>Actually you are the one reaching.....drinking wine at a holiday dinner or a couple of beers at a bbq does not always equate to drunk driving deaths....in fact I had bbqd albacore and 3 Labbat Blues to wash it down earlier this week....no one died.....

There were 24,000 abortions performed last week alone.....every one resulted in a murdered infant. Having an abortion always results in death for an innocent, unborn child.

To be accurate, your parallel would be that if you support any form of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman the blood of these babies is on your hands......which is completely false and not even implied in my statement.

[ 12-20-2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: El Shaddai ]

dolphinmarty · 12-20-2003, 11:24 PM

You all have taken a very important topic and muddied the water. Let's just agree to disagree and bottom line nail the people who commit the crimes like this rotten SOB above. The big question is even if this becomes law will it have any TEETH?

El Shaddai · 12-20-2003, 11:37 PM

Dang...skunked again! Sounds as if you have endured many fruitless days....I admire perseverance....walking away from a major moral issue is not an option for either side because without opposition the other sides agaenda will advance. This truly is a matter of life or death.

The bill is meant to allow prosecutors to charge the bad guy with additional crimes which should in turn invoke harsher punishment for violent offenders.

Someone on the left tell me why this is a bad thing?????

[ 12-20-2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: El Shaddai ]