Oh no! Heavy Metal! My son! Help! :)

[Jennie@ifish]

(Edited for content! Mom is not proud. Mom is MAD) is now online, for all of you ifish heavy metal fans. :smile:

Oh brother! You know, he has got talent, both artistic and musical, but I can't say much for his taste in music!

It worries me, but... it is a nice looking web site!

Jen

[ 01-10-2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[SHOUGALNITE]

I am a former rocker. I love music. I am 24 now and I seem to be toning down. I find my self listning to light rock or aduly contemporary. Give it alot of time and he will tone down. But, now and then I'm known to get a little rowdy. :grin:

[SHOUGALNITE]

I looked at the website and that is not the music I am talking about. I listen to the 80s and early 90s rock, and some of the 70s. That type of music I refuse to listen to. Make sure you help him guide his talent to a less dark side of rock.

[Jennie@ifish]

Believe me. I TRY!

Jen

[Tanner]

Jennie,
It would worry me too if my kids listened to stuff like Manson and Pantera.
You oughta turn him loose on a website called RadRockers He can find any style of music that he is interested in only they are all Christian Label bands. Some of this stuff will blow him away. Tourniquet, Mortification, Paramecium, Living Sacrifice, Zao. The list goes on and on. These bands are as hardcore as you can get only with a positive spin to their lyrics. Some of the bands are preachy, most of the hardcore ones are not.
If you have any questions or are thinking about getting anything like this for him I can help you, feel free to e-mail me.

If you want, I can even burn a couple CD's and send them to you for him to listen to.

[ 12-12-2003, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Tanner ]

[crabbait]

You would prefer Punk? Gangsta Rap? Suicide Grunge? Alcoholic Hillbilly?

[CATCH AND EAT]

No country music?? :depressed:

[Jennie@ifish]

LOL... Andrew is going to love that. Illegally burning Christian CDs!

Oh boy, am I going to hear it, now!

We have this thing going on where I disaprove of any burning CD's without copyright authorization. He always contends that he buys them in the end, so it's OK. Hmmmm.

He's going to get you for that one! :smile:

Jen

[KrazzyJoe]

Believe me, I am into MANY kinds of music. Look on the site and among other bands you will find Primus, one of the greatest bands that no one could argue. Also, the newest news is that of Rasputina, which is a three peice cello band. So, give me a break. :smile:

I listen to much more stuff from the early 90's, 80's, and 70's. You just don't find news on them that often.

I don't need positive lyrics, I need good lyrics. Manson's lyrics have positive influences on society, whether you like to admit it or not.
Positive or not, Christian bands generally have the same message, and it gets boring. They just put it out there, no underlying theme or story to them. That said, I will look into that site anyway.

And as far as country, no. But Manson's guitarist, John Lowery, has been with many other projects. All of which I enjoy, except Salt N' Pepa. However, his bluegrass project was short lived. I enjoy the stuff that I can find. He also worked on DLR band with David Lee Roth, which is the closest to Van Halen you can find with his own little touch.

[ 12-12-2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

[KrazzyJoe]

lol, didn't notice that.

Stealing for the lord. :smile:

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

Manson and the likes are not the Heavy Metal style of the good ol days. Maybe I am getting old but when I think of Heavy Metal, the bands Judas Priest and Iron Maiden come to mind. Those were the days.

[KrazzyJoe]

Manson and the likes are not the Heavy Metal style of the good ol days. Maybe I am getting old but when I think of Heavy Metal, the bands Judas Priest and Iron Maiden come to mind. Those were the days.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Believe me, I love both those bands. Particularly Iron Maiden. I wouldn't actually consider Manson heavy metal at all. More alternative metal.

[DanS]

You can't pick someone's musical tastes for them. There's no "best" band.......just bands that WE like most.

Give you kids some credit, too. Listening to Manson or Pantera isn't going to turn them into a kook.

Take him on a drive. Lock the doors. Put Shania in the CD player. Turn it up. :grin:

[1pump]

I was never that impressionable, even at a young age, so I really don't understand why anybody would ape the artists of their favorite music genre. But it happens all the time. Goths, gangstas, grunge, underground alternative, redneck hick and white-supremacist hate rock. Christian music, too. With most kids it's just a phase, but there's always the few where it becomes their entire being.
I was in high school during the late 70's disco rage. My friends and I were convinced the world was going to be overrun with Travolta look-alikes in polyester leisure suits and we were determined to stop them. We'd drive by Gatsby's (on Halsey Street) and yell "DISCO SUCKS!" at the people walking in and out of the place. Occasionally we'd catch a disco dude out in the open and scare him into running away in those platform shoes, which was always an amusing sight. Ah, yes, those were the days.
If you were one of those unfortunate gold chain/ pastel colored skin-tight bell bottom wearing/ 280Z driving people, I formally apologize. All in good fun. :smile:

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally posted by KrazzyJoe:
That sounds like THE most un-talented, idiotic thing I have ever heard of. No offense, but that is just...idioti :smile: c.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Dont knock it tell ya hear it Joe. Far from IDIOTIC. More talent in their pinky finger than you on a fishing pole. :shocked:

[ 12-12-2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

[KrazzyJoe]

The post right before yours shows that I did listen to it. And no, there is no talent there whatsoever. I don't know what you mean by "more talent in a pinky than you on a fishing pole"...but I suck at fishing, so that would not be much if I am understanding what you mean.

In my old "hippie" years, I thought lots of things were "harmless," until the light came on and figured out "old satan" was well hidden behind the scenes and doing great damage. He still is, even worse and right out in the open. I had a great time making frisbee's out of my Black Sabbath records and some of my other "cherised" collections.

My point is, some of it is not all that innocent or harmless at all. Anything even remotely on the dark side does not come anywhere near the inside of my house or kids. Yea, hopefully they will figure it out and make good choices on their own, but I've tried hard myself to steer them away. I am not sorry for any of it, or this statement. To each their own, but look deep before you leap.

[lost_sailor]

Mine is in a "ska" band. Ska preceeded reggae in Jamaica, my son's band sounds more like punk with a horn section. It could be worse ... like ... heavy metal! I used to work with some guys in a metal band, apparently it's fairly challenging and interesting to play, but ...

[KrazzyJoe]

I suppose it has to do with your defenition of what is 'dark'. And sometimes a level of ignorance comes into play.

Oh geese, ska. I despise it, but that is my opinion. Most ska that people like today IS just punk (which is talentless) with a trumpet. I know alot of people around here are into ska lately. Five Iron Frenzy etc.

[ 12-12-2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

Exactly. The true and real danger is in the ignorance. :depressed:

[pdxkevin]

Originally posted by KrazzyJoe:
As an update, I listened to some. I hope you are kidding saying that you like them.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Based on the quality of those samples... yeah I can see why you think its low-budget. The recordings sound like he sampled them using the microphone on his computer. The stuff on CD sounds much, much better. here is a better set of samples. The take longer to download though. On the bright side, there is a sample of Manger!

I think that they do a great job at remaking the song. It can't be easy sounding like that many different singers in that many different styles.

[Jennie@ifish]

I believe that ****** is right on. Their is evil that people need to watch for, very, very carefully.

Mom believes that, KJ, even though you may laugh, or not see it that way, at all. Maybe someday you will see it like I do. Maybe not... but I hope and pray that you do!

There are sides to Manson that I believe are OK. Interestingly enough, there are some of his songs that I actually like, to rock out to, anyway!

But his words and his actions give me the creeps, sometimes. When I feel that feeling, I know that something isn't right, and it does make me want to run for cover.

I don't like that you called that band idiotic. Now, if you would have called the member posting it idiotic, I would have deleted it. But I guess you can call ideas idiotic and get away with it.
Still, I don't think it's nice to put down anyone's music, KJ...

Jen

[KrazzyJoe]

Is that not the point of this thread? To put down my music?

Hah, got you.

[Jennie@ifish]

No! It wasn't at all!

I was proud of your talent, actually.

Sigh... teens....

Andrew, I think your web page is awesome, and I wanted to share it with the world. I'm a proud Mom, you know.

Not so proud of all things you like, but then again, I don't think my Mom was proud of Black Sabbath, Emerson Lake and Palmer, all of the stuff I listened to, too.

I turned out OK. I'm sure you will too!

Dang, KJ! Take a compliment! Your web site, ESPECIALLY for your age is outstanding!!! The design is cool!

I'm saying this from a professional standpoint,and not just cuz I'm your Mom!

Jen

[KrazzyJoe]

*Krazzy Joe looks at title of thread*

Oh, eh, well, anyway...

Thankyou. :smile:

[Tanner]

KJ,
Man, I would think that you were a boring closed minded adult with your answer to my statement about Christian bands. :grin:
If you think Christian Bands are all boring with the same message than someone has not turned you on to the right stuff. A good place to start is Tourniquet, especially their earlier stuff (Psychosurgery, Pathogenic Ocular Dissonence, and Crawl To China). Their lyrics are extremely witty, their message is not preachy at all and their musicianship is outstanding. Gary Lenaire's guitar work rivals anything Hammett or Mustain have ever put out. If you like Death Metal check out Mortification, Living Sacrifice, Extol, or Faithbomb

Can you please explain to me how you can get anything postive out of Manson's lyrics. Songs like Slutgarden and Cake and Sodomy are absolutely dark and dimented and most of the other stuff I have seen is the same.

Primus definitely has some interesting music. Claypoole is a genius bass player but I don't know if I could attach the word talent to much of their guitar work. They do come up with some interesting noises though. I do like the fact they like to fish though and have a couple good songs about it. "Fish On" being one of my Favorites.

Check out this web page. It is a good resource for bands both secular and Christian. BNR Metal Page
Some of the bands I mentioned above are listed on there with some pretty good descriptions.

:smile:

Did not intend to put down you, your website or downplay your talent. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[KrazzyJoe]

I said I would check it anyway. :tongue:

As far as Manson lyrics, you quoted songs from my two least-liked albums. Cake and Sodomy was from the mindless, just a hobbie Manson days as far as lyrics. However, Get Your Gunn of of Portrait of an American Family has great lyrics. Cake And Sodomy, I believe, had some basic ideas that would be brought into other songs of his that I enjoy. Slutgarden is actually OK in my opinion. It is about his girlfriend, Rose Mcgewen. About people liking you only because you are famous. Now, that is a pretty cliche theme in music, but, what you gonna do? Now, anything off of the tryptich albums is usually good. Anti-Christ Superstar, Mechanical Animals, and my favorite Holy Wood.

The guitar work, when there are guitars, for Primus are pretty horrible. Tommy the Cat is pretty good, but that song is completely ruined by the lyrics.

[KrazzyJoe]

Originally posted by ******:
Did not intend to put down you, your website or downplay your talent. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Oh, it didn't put me down at all. No problems.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Idiotic is a pretty strong term. AS far as you putting down a band that does parrodies as a no talent, well KJ, lets see, they learned to play the piano. (must have zero talent), drums (zero talent), guitar (zero talent), put their own words to the music (big zero talent) and so on. Get the drift? We all have our creative talents and abilities that cater to different preferences. Since this is a truth then perhaps an "I don't really care for ...... responce would be more appropriate.

Like the rest of us fellow i-fishers if ya open the door prepare to have someone slam it in your face once in a while. Play nice.

And if you suck at fishing, well momma better school ya better in that department (and I know she can). Spend some time on the river with her she's got lots to give. Peace.

[ 12-12-2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

[KrazzyJoe]

Well, it may take minimal talent to learn instruments. However, they have no right to be recording nothing but badly done versions of great and horrible songs alike. THAT means talentless. I have no idea how a band like this could approach a company and get signed. "Hi, we do bad christian covers of AC/DC and The Backstreet Boys". At what point would someone think to themselves "Thats a winner!"?

I just don't like fishing. However, when I do go out, I 'school' everyone else. :grin:

[ 12-12-2003, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Ya gotta admit, KJ, your web site is kinda.. ah... dark!

How bout a couple pink flowers and some daisies and perhaps a little ribbon around the border? :grin:

Oh well, it's clean, nice, and uh.... dark. :smile:

Jen

[KrazzyJoe]

The layouts changed a few times, I change it once a week, or I try to. It was more colorful a the day before you posted this.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Minimal talent? You gotta be kidding right?
Seems they know more than just 3 chords which is approximately what the average heavy metal band spectrum consists of.

I just don't find the word idiotic as facinating as you. Would you refer to your high school band that way since they just play music that others wrote. I would'nt. They might do a good job or poor job of playing the music but certainly I would not call them idiotic.

******, I agree with you on the dark music theme. Good for you. I totally support that and in fact support that in my own home.

[KrazzyJoe]

No, I wouldn't call the school band idiotic. However, they are not recording albums. Also the good band, the Jazz band, does make up there own stuff. The stuff they play is also much more sophisticated than the stuff that the other band plays.

Most Heavy Metal consists of far more than three chords, I believe you are refering to punk. Which I despise.

And I am sad to hear that you don't allow your children to think for themselves. At a young age I can admire and respect that, but when your children have the ability to form there own opinions, they should be allowed to do so.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Don't be sad KJ. They are turning out just fine. BTW, they are perfectly capable to think for themselves. At ages 15, 11, and 4 I as a parent am responsible to bring them up in the best ways I know how. That happens to be in the way of a Christian walk.

Here's how I see it. They have the right to do as they please after they leave my home. Hopefully they will be respectful of others views and opinions but not swallow the shallow crap that society and yes some of the wonderful music you listen to. Go ahead, call me a dictator. That's fine with me. At least I know where my kids are, what they are doing and what they are into. How many parents can say that sir?

[KrazzyJoe]

I just wish people would not promote ignorance so much. I am not trying to start any problems, but not allowing your children to have information is ignorance, like it or not. The teenager years are when you begin to think about things rather than just take the things that you are fed. Seems to me that you are against 'society' feeding your children things, but somehow you can do it because you are right, no matter what. I just don't understand how people can believe in things so blindly and think that they are right, and that is that. Believe me, people can have differing opinions and not be runaway teenage prostitutes, it is possible. Ever read A Brave New World? People are so against the idea of that, but that is exactly how many of the familys in this world are. Very sad.

[Jennie@ifish]

Hmmm. I don't know whether to be really offended at what you are inferring about my job as a parent, or to thank you for your helping hand.

Regardless, KJ got a private e mail about his remarks to you, and a few of my own private thoughts.

Regardless, I am the best Mom that he will ever have. Perhaps I don't always do the right thing, but I always ask for help and guidance from He who I respect most, and spend many hours with.

I also try very hard to support other parents that are going through the teenage years, without being holier than thou, which is very easy to do. Being a single Mom can be very challenging, as I am sure you realize, and frankly, I am darn proud of my kids.

I'm out now... off to make dinner, and spend some time decorating the tree with the kids.

...that is, if I knew where the heck they were...

Jen

[ampersat]

Now, for something completely different:

I like the site design. While it's not my taste, it suits the content and can see how it would appeal to your prospective audience. Choice of color and background image (you did get permission to use that image, right?) are very good. The header graphic has lots of interest without being overwrought. Well done!

Music is just cool noise. Don't get me wrong, I like good music. But I refuse to have my musical tastes confined by some artificial framework called style.

[STGRule]

The best and worst thing about being a teenager is the ability to think for yourself. The hardest part for young people to understand is that parents have a vested interest in keeping them safe. There is a great disparity in the amount of protection any one parent uses. From not knowing if their child is even in the house, to not allowing any "outside influence". Fortunately most teenagers make it through any level of parental protection alive and well. You get good kids coming from horrible family conditions to sorry excuses for human beings coming from good homes. As long as all else is okay, music choices are a piddly thing to fight about. If you can talk to your child (or your parent) about why and why not and everybody understands the others reasoning, you can really hate each other’s music and still be good people. All teenagers will continue to have music preferences for their entire lives. It most likely will never be the same as a parent. It’s no big deal. It’s just music. As long as it just stays music, nobody is a better judge than another is.

[Jennie@ifish]

...and Krazy Joe, we need to talk!

Ignorance is very prevalent in our society, in my humble opinion.

The truth is right before you. It took me longer than some, but I can finally say that there is no need to explore further. However, I realize that your exploring is a part of being the age that you are.

I don't care for threads about religion and politics on ifish.

However, they are just fine in your bedroom.

See you in a bit--

Jen

[Jennie@ifish]

STG Rule-- You know, when KJ wanted to dye his hair black, I nearly flipped, until a lady in our church said, "Jen, choose your battles wisely!"

I took her advice, and now I have a simply adorable black haired son that I still love and adore! :smile:

Jen

[KrazzyJoe]

No, thats not far! You can't get angry and than say something like that! Now I cannot be mean!

And STG-thanks for the compliment, and the opinion. However, I do understand that a certain level of censorship is good. I am not some anti-government anarchist. Believe me, I understand much more than my peers. Not to sound conceided, but I do.

[Jennie@ifish]

Andrew, get in here. It's time for dinner.

Then, straight to bed with no desert!!!

Well, maybe a little jello... Since it is "good" for you!

(Inside family joke)

Jen

[Chromaflage]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Don't be sad KJ. They are turning out just fine. BTW, they are perfectly capable to think for themselves. At ages 15, 11, and 4 I as a parent am responsible to bring them up in the best ways I know how. That happens to be in the way of a Christian walk.

Here's how I see it. They have the right to do as they please after they leave my home. Hopefully they will be respectful of others views and opinions but not swallow the shallow crap that society and yes some of the wonderful music you listen to. Go ahead, call me a dictator. That's fine with me. At least I know where my kids are, what they are doing and what they are into. How many parents can say that sir?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I can, I can! My kids are 9, 11, 14 and 16. If any of them bring that garbage in the house, it gets place in the clay target thrower and dispatched accordingly. To me it's about respecting self and others and raising them according to Christian values. As I see it, what a do not want in my house does not come in my house.

And, as far as I'm concerned, there is no place where religion is inappropriate. As a believer, I've found that God can neither be put in a box nor can He be kept out of one.

And, yes, this whole music thing is an issue of spirituality. Most believers can see who is really behind this "music." Music becomes an obsession and religion for some kids - it's almost occultic. And when adults speak out against it, look out! I know, because I was there.

ORS

[Freakwater]

Who is this so-called Krazzy Joe? Jen, I think you should look into this..... I did a search and I don't think we got a fishing story out of this one. What's the story Krazzy?

Freak

[KrazzyJoe]

What is against christianity in Marilyn Manson? If you feal that a certain knowledge is so wrong, than you shouldn't fear your children thinking it is right.

[ 12-12-2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

[Jennie@ifish]

The God that I want my children to learn to love and be accepted by is a little different, a little more loving and accepting.

Somehow, listening to posts like that, I don't think as a teenager I would have said, "OH! I want some of that, too!" :smile: It just seems scary to me, and your post brings back some pretty scary memories of my childhood. How distant I felt from my parents rigid attitudes. They meant well, but I was so rebelious, that I just couldn't "Dig it!" :smile:

Sure, God is to be respected and even feared, but I think you need to grow into, and learn that, as you grow to learn how darn much he loves and cares for you.

I grew up totally turning against my parents rigid attitude and it took years for me to come back and learn to trust.

So, we all have different approaches, I guess.
:smile:

Jen

[Chromaflage]

KJ - Well, you can start here

Click on M in the box on the left. You'll figure out the rest...

ORS

[ 12-12-2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: OregonRedside ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Krazzy Joe is my son's "other" name. :smile:

His given name is Andrew...

Anyway, KJ, I have to disagree with you about Manson. I think he is openly not Christian, and that bothers me a lot. His lyrics are crass, dark, and not anything you would hear coming out of my mouth!

I do think that his motions while performing on stage are not respectful, and are disgusting.

Anyhow, I'm not getting sucked into this any longer.

I do NOT approve of your music. However, I do want you to be able to look at all things, and to say, "I know this, and I know this, and I know this, yet I still choose THIS."

:smile:

That would make me the proudest Mommy in the world!

Later guys...

Night, KJ-- Love you. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

[KrazzyJoe]

KJ - Well, you can start here

Click on M in the box on the left. You'll figure out the rest...

ORS

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, I don't mind saying, that site is the most ignorant, close-minded site I have ever seen. Who is negative? They are the ones picking out lyrics and taking them out of context just to make things seem horrible. THIS is what causes school shootings, blind, ignorant hatred. Whomever helped create that site should be ashamed of themselves. Look up some interviews with the man himself, read his book. Than you will understand. I am done with this. If you have lived your life this long and still have not realised how many things you do not understand and will not get to think about, than there is probably no hope. God will accept you, of course, and I suppose that is all that matters to you in the long run. But you will never get to think about things. For that, I am truly sorry.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is harsh, it makes me angry that you don't think about so many things. You think that you understand it, but you don't.

Respect goes both ways, and I don't feal I have respect here.

To those of you who were not so ignorant, mum, others, thankyou.

Good night. :grin:

[ 12-12-2003, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

It could be worse. Brittany Spears comes to mind.

[Royal]

Man flipping through my CD collection is sometimes fairly amusing. Johnny Cash, Marilyn Manson, Dr. Dre, Harry Connick Jr, Frank Sinatra, Atmosphere..etc etc etc

I was 15 When Manson came out, and inadvertently saw them when they were opening for NIN back in '94. Funny story is, i needed glass's at the time and could barely see the stage. So I had no idea of Mansons crazy show antics and actually thought the music was ok. So i picked it up and was unpleasantly surprised by the lyrics, but still enjoyed the music.

Listning to certain types of music might or might not warp your self. I think as long as you dont devote yourself to one particular style you are going to be ok. Just try to immerse yourself so it makes you more well rounded.

Also Primus is not one of the best bands. Claypool is an unbelievable bassist, that I can not argue with. Don't get me wrong, i own almost every primus album, but they are nothing but a bass heavy they might be giants. My honest opinion.

[KrazzyJoe]

Well, the bass is really the only high point. That is what I meant, one of the best bass.

I, to, do not own a Primus or any of Les Claypools projects CD's. I must soon. Have you ever heard The Awakening? Wow.

Further more, I suppose you could argue agianst any band. It all depends on your taste. However, when it comes from a musical standpoint, than there are certain bands that you have to respect just because of the genious behind the musical theory. Now, I am not saying that everything I like is genious. However, musical thoery is not everything, as we all know.

[ 12-12-2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: KrazzyJoe ]

[pdxkevin]

I was just turned on to a great band - Apologetix

They take great songs most everyone knows from the past and present and remakes them with Christian lyrics! They are extremely good at what they do. Currently, my favorite songs of theirs are Manger (Angel by Shaggy with Rayvon) and You Booked Me All Along (You Shook Me All Night Long by AC/DC)

[KrazzyJoe]

That sounds like THE most un-talented, idiotic thing I have ever heard of. No offense, but that is just...idioti :smile: c.

[KrazzyJoe]

As an update, I listened to some. I hope you are kidding saying that you like them.

[Ryan Pultz]

Andrew AKA Krazy Joe
We have actually not met. Buy my name is Ryan. First off your site has a great look and lots of information on a lot of very talented bands. First off a little about me I use to work for Tooth and nail/ Solid state records this happens to be one of the biggest and I would have to say diverse labels out there ( MxPx to Demon Hunter). And yes they are exclusively Christian.
But there are a few bands out there that you mostly likely listen two and believe it or not they have a substantially Christian influenced and you kind of pigeon holed all Christian bands in one group. Believe it or not there are a few bands out now that are getting air play even on NRK and KUFO of course P.O.D. being the number one but even little bands such as cheval i have known the guys from chevelle for years and believe me they are not in the music to push God at you but they are not out there to push hatred ether. just my thoughts on Christian music being someone that has seen it from the inside there are some Christian bands out there that have members that are just as messed up as the rest of the world and they know it they are not out there to show they are better then anyone else they just live life for Christ and do their best to show his light through whatever they do. Just as we all should as believers I do not know your walk or stance with the Lord that’s between you and him. And hey if you decide to listen to Manson or Pantera and yes Primus Less Claypool is a very talented bass player then that is your option as a free soul God gives us the freedom to do as we please. But at the point were you start to let there beliefs influence you our change you that’s were it takes the Guts to step back take a look at life and study are You being yourself Krazyjoe or are you just being another Manson I personally believe and pray you are being you and God has blessed you with and Awesome mom that gives you the freedom to express yourself and be Krazy joe.
I myself listen to everything style of music (not country that music makes the sheep nervous) I have a five year old son that listens to punk rock and loves it we took him to Tom fest(a big Christian punk metal Festival) he will sit right there on stage and not move the whole show. Yet we will also be taking him to the Lynkin Park P.O.D. concert on Valentines Day for his birthday. What I am trying to get to listen to what ever music you want never close you mind and eye to new stuff and always remember you are Krazy Joe and don’t let anyone change you. But also remember you have a mother who loves and respects you and I am sure always praying for you. And also a God that sacrifice the ultimate gift for you. Who is always willing to listen even when you feel no one else will!!!
Sorry if this got a little long God gave me a real heart for Music and Youth when I was young myself and thought the years of being in the industry and touring the states playing secular and Christian shows I have a somewhat different look at life.

Jenny if you feel this is not appropriate please feel free to pull this post rp

[Jennie@ifish]

It's fine.
I just don't want this to go to a religeous battle. Personal beliefs are so strongly held, that it's so easy to say "You are wrong to believe that!"

I am guilty of that, myself, or think that, and I know that other people are grown up and believe that they are right, whether Mormon, Christian, agnostic, jewish, whatever.

There is no way we will settle it here, and this thread is on the border of being too controversial to discuss with the usual ifish pleasantries.

I think if it goes any further, it will need to be closed.

Peace--

J